TDB: SEASON 2! LEON (RE4) vs LARA CROFT

[adumbrodeus]

http://medieval.stormthecastle.com/armorypages/flail.htm

Well, it turns out flails are quite incredible weapons themselves. Better than swords in fact. The only reason they weren't used was because of people thought swords were cooler.

Flails carry and incredible amount of force behind them, even more than what a mace can deliver.

Looking for more info.

Note that the yo-yo lacks the raw force to be as strong as a flail normally is capable of because it lacks the bulk, however it is faster to attack, and more maneuverable, and is capable of doing considerable damage while requiring little strength because it's all centrifugal force and momentium.


Honestly, perfect weapon for a kid.

 

[payasofobia]

Exactly. Ness got a deadly weapon right there.

And it isn't that small, so it could still have a decent amount of mass.

Anyway, I am going to play Smash now, don't finish without me.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Exactly. Ness got a deadly weapon right there.

And it isn't that small, so it could still have a decent amount of mass.

Still, it's plastic, flails were metal, I mean it DOES function somewhat like a flail, but understand it's much more of a precision instrument because you have the ability to control it from the string a great deal more, and it's also faster and lighter.

 

[justaway12]

Basically this:

http://starmen.net/ssbm/images/ness_yoyo.jpg >_>

Why would he think to attack with a yo-yo anyway?

 

[adumbrodeus]

Basically this:

http://starmen.net/ssbm/images/ness_yoyo.jpg >_>

Why would he think to attack with a yo-yo anyway?

Because he does it in-game?


Remember, pretty much everything ness uses is impromptu weapons.

 

[Salem]

Because he does it in-game?


Remember, pretty much everything ness uses is impromptu weapons.

Anything can be used as a weapon obviously. lol

 

[payasofobia]

And this make-shift flail would have more range than anything Peach has (which is only a frying pan).


Up-close, I am sure Peach is screwed.


So now I am going to look for ays in which Peach's bombs become inneffective in this MU....after I finish with smash.

 

[adumbrodeus]

And this make-shift flail would have more range than anything Peach has (which is only a frying pan).


Up-close, I am sure Peach is screwed.


So now I am going to look for ays in which Peach's bombs become inneffective in this MU....after I finish with smash.

I doubt they're totally ineffective, but they don't have as large an AOW.


So now, next question is, is Peach's bomb range superiority (if any) enough to allow her to win more often in total then Ness will win from his close range superiority?

 

[justaway12]

Adum, he shoots his Yo-yo, that is how it was described in-game, I think

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WP7DqAC7Ne0#t=8m19s

He probably wouldn't know about the flail thing...

 

[adumbrodeus]

Adum, he shoots his Yo-yo, that is how it was described in-game, I think

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WP7DqAC7Ne0#t=8m19s

He probably wouldn't know about the flail thing...

With what exactly?


Mechanically speaking the only way he can "shoot" the yo-yo is by using the yo-yo's string for centrifugal force.

*chalks it up to poor translation*

 

[justaway12]

He shoots it, like throws it at the enemy...

That's what I saw from it...

 

[Diddy Kong]

Yeah EarthBound leaves alot... up to your imagination. It's both good and bad.

Spoiler

Mostly good when high though. ^^

 

[payasofobia]

He shoots it, like throws it at the enemy...

That's what I saw from it...

You can't show him swinging around that flail with the game's graphics.

 

[justaway12]

You can't show him doing anything, but it impllies he threw it...

 

[payasofobia]

Not really. The game's graphics just show a bunch of lights and lines and stuff in the animations. They are purely gameplay mechanics.

 

[REL38]

You can't show him doing anything, but it impllies he threw it...

What's implied is left entirely up to the player.

And even if he threw it, it doesn't limit him to only performing the action in the manner it was displayed in-game.


Ex. Falcon is never shown actually doing anything outside of racing.
This doesn't mean he's only allowed to fight in his race car.

In Super Princess Peach, she can only attack with her parasol in a downward swing. She can obviously swing it in a slashing motion or thrust IRL.

 

[justaway12]

What I'm say is that we don't know if he knows about the flail thing.

@Paya: I meant the options, it said to throw it...

 

[payasofobia]

And how is that difficult to know?

Just swing it. There you have it. Flail.

 

[justaway12]

And how would he know? I doubt he researched much about flails...

 

[UncleSam]

And how would he know? I doubt he researched much about flails...

Play melee.

 

[payasofobia]

It comes instinctively.

He tries to swing his yo yo, sees it crushes Peach's skull. There, he knows its a good weapon. And just the fact that he used it during his adventures would give him the experience and knowledge to use it and know how effective it is.

 

[justaway12]

I think he always throws it, so unless he didn't with a certian type of yo-yo then I doubt he would realise...

He would probably think his bat is a good enough weapon already.

IIRC, he caused more damage with his bat, than a yo-yo, I'm not sure though...

 

[Sieguest]

I'm a little confused, JUST how powerful is Ness's yoyo REALLY....

 

[tocador]

No yoyo can crush someones skull.

Are you guys nuts? Really? Yoyo are mainly made of plastic and if you really push it maybe iron/steel. And even so it wouldnt be a "skull crushing" hit because ness dont have the required strentgh to do so.

 

[payasofobia]

Strong enough to be as strong as a mace to the head, if you swing it strong enough. Physics do the job for you.

 

[tocador]

Swinging "strong enough" sounds too much for a 13 years old kid to do so.

Throwing a yoyo at someone would be just like throwing a rock at someone(assuming it is made from iron/steel), but hey, no big deal it is a kid thats doing that to you.

O yeah, and who said the yoyo is made from steel/iron and not plastic, that is btw the most common one.

And dont "But its a combat yoyo and wada wada" because you cant prove it isnt plastic. And even by logic, who would use a yoyo as a weapon? No one ever used one as a weapon, and as far as im concerned, the strentgh necessary for a yoyo to score a hit and do some damage would be so big that probably the string would rip apart because of the tension.

So yeah, proof or gtfo with yoyo being made from resistant material(aka steel/iron).

 

[xepherthree]

Strong enough to be as strong as a mace to the head, if you swing it strong enough. Physics do the job for you.

While I'm P(ro)-Ness in this MUm I still have to call bull on the yoyo = flail.
Will it be strong? yes.
But in all honesty, I don't see how

has the same force as

I know the image above isn't really a yoyo, but you get my point.
The difference in density of metal to plastic is just too great.
f = ma
Acceleration may be the same, mass is different.

 

[Sieguest]

Strong enough to be as strong as a mace to the head, if you swing it strong enough. Physics do the job for you.

hmm...

I don't think so....

depends on the
mass and the acceleration....
Time force is applied....
Distance over which the force is applied....

so...Paya...
how would you gauge the mass of Ness's yoyo
and how much do you think he could accelerate it realistically?

I'm not taking a side,
but just asking questions

 

[payasofobia]

I don't know.

Ask Adum. I am too busy right now. I won't reply in a while.

 

[REL38]

Woah wha-?

A typcial yo-yo being able to crush a grown woman's skull?
What is this craziness :/


At best, it'll leave a nasty bruise, but c'mon . . . . even a direct hit to the temple will only daze her for several seconds or maybe knock her out, but the latter is being kinda generous.

 

[Beren Zaiga]

Woah wha-?

A typcial yo-yo being able to crush a grown woman's skull?
What is this craziness :/


At best, it'll leave a nasty bruise, but c'mon . . . . even a direct hit to the temple will only daze her for several seconds or maybe knock her out, but the latter is being kinda generous.

Know what happened if you manage to hit someone with bruise-inducing things in the same spot enough times (though beyond extremely unlikely)? There you go. How do I know this?

When my brother and I used to fight, I would always aim for his shoulders, particularly his left one for some weird reason. After awhile of repeated fights and hitting him in the same place, it became an almost permanent weak spot. I would hit him there and it would hurt much more than when I hit him anywhere else.

The same thing can happen with a yo-yo, if Ness aims for say... the temple area on both sides of the head? Even if he misses her head and he blocks with her arm, Ness could pull her in.

It takes a big amount of strength to hit a baseball well. If it is so, Ness may be able to pull a grown woman with it. The string strength is much higher than Toca gives it credit for. in a real yo-yo.

 

[REL38]

Know what happened if you manage to hit someone with bruise-inducing things in the same spot enough times (though beyond extremely unlikely)? There you go. How do I know this?

When my brother and I used to fight, I would always aim for his shoulders, particularly his left one for some weird reason. After awhile of repeated fights and hitting him in the same place, it became an almost permanent weak spot. I would hit him there and it would hurt much more than when I hit him anywhere else.

The same thing can happen with a yo-yo, if Ness aims for say... the temple area on both sides of the head? Even if he misses her head and he blocks with her arm, Ness could pull her in.

It takes a big amount of strength to hit a baseball well. If it is so, Ness may be able to pull a grown woman with it. The string strength is much higher than Toca gives it credit for. in a real yo-yo.

I'm sure this was over an extended period of time.
A few days or even longer.

Attacking with the yo-yo in the same spot would require repeated blows over an extended period of time to achieve what you're implying here.


Attacking a small target such as the temples is no small task here. It's rather difficult for a boy that hasn't required great aim in swinging a yo-yo to hit one specific spot.

Next, if Peach blocks with her arm then it could potentionally wrap around.
But who's stronger here?

A 25 year old woman that's almost 6 ft. tall with more leverage in regards to the yo-yo

or

A 13 year old boy that's got less leverage with the yo-yo.


Peach would be the one pulling Ness in.
Not the other way around.

Peach has the entire yo-yo to pull giving better leverage and grip.

Ness has the loop of the string with significantly less grip.

Yeeeah.


Lastly, it doesn't take high levels of strength to swing a baseball bat. Your average teenage kid can which is why Ness can also. It would actually be easier for Peach to do the same thing.

A yo-yo string isn't "lolfail", but it isn't hercules either.

 

[Uffe]

Yo-yos hurt. But they're not going to kill someone unless you try and strangle them. The part that's been mentioned once before but dismissed because apparently you can break string with your bare hands. Anyway, a baseball bat is going to do a lot more damage. At least with that you can knock someone out.

 

[Hero Dude]

If she can ever manage to pull him in, she COULD wack him with the frying pan.

 

[Nova9000]

The more I read, the more I call bull on Peach v. ICs...

 

[REL38]

The more I read, the more I call bull on Peach v. ICs...

The IC's were younger than 13 years (maybe 10, less even). They have degenerated muscles meaning that they can't lift those huge hammers. They'd also be rather slow.

One dying would freak the partner IC out as well.

 

[Nova9000]

Well I'm just saying that a lot of the points made in this MU against Peach were said in that MU. Anyway I'd like to see Ness win since Peach is a blonde bimbo IMO and I can't imagine her beating too many people. However I don't know too much about earthbound and could care less about Peach. I just found that point very funny.

 

[Rialdospaldacht]

^Has that been brought up yet? The fact that Peach has never shown to be very smart?

 

[justaway12]

She has never been shown to be dumb >___>

I think she was described as wise in SMB.3 and I know she was a nurse as well

 

[Nova9000]

I've brought it up but then I got "well she was able to do/use this is in [insert Mario spinoff sport game]" and since she could in that one, she can use it here. Just pointing out stuff I've said before.