TDB: SEASON 2! LEON (RE4) vs LARA CROFT

[Salem]

Eh, I'll admit, Bowser does seem to be stronger here, but Ganon has a ton of ways he could out-smart Bowser to kill him.

For example, he could use his weapon(s) as a projectile, throw them at Bowser's belly repetitively.

o_o

But he has one weapon? right?

Thats what he was given...

But still, Bowser with fire is BS, it's acid.

 

[xepherthree]

Eh, I'll admit, Bowser does seem to be stronger here, but Ganon has a ton of ways he could out-smart Bowser to kill him.

For example, he could use his weapon(s) as a projectile, throw them at Bowser's belly repetitively.

-ganon throws sword-
-swords heavy weight makes it fail and drop to ground-
-bowser picks up sword-
-ganon is screwed-

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Throw the sword > pick it up. It's possible. <_<

 

[REL38]

@Salem

Fire is plausible as it has scientific reasoning behind, but he'd only be able to use one short blast due to the searing pain it would cause Bowser.

@Ray

Maybe it's time to throw in the towel . . .

 

[Beren Zaiga]

Umm...

Doesn't mean Bowser would use his claws or grab or anything, espcially grab...

He's still a turtle and basicly would do that useless attempt to charge in and bite, like most animals do.

Also, Bowser shouldn't have fire nor should charizard, it's suppose to be acid, it's more realistic.
We are trying to be realistic here, right? >_>

Your generalizing him as a turtle in order to make your point valid.

Bowser is much more than just a turtle, despite my earlier post stating he would have a shell like that of a sea turtle (He has in the games been shown to swim, thus suggesting that if he can swim, his shell is lighter than he is). I was talking about his weight.

He is more of a Dinosaur x Turtle mutant because of his snout, its not shaped like that of a turtle and no turtle has that kind of nose/ nose. We are mainly considering Bowser more of the former. He is a bipedal dinosaur with a strong shell, somewhat like Ankylosaur.

Shell strength does not always = weight.

Wrong, not most animals just simply charge in and bite without aim. Tigers pounce their prey in order to try and ensure a kill, by pinning them down, all cats do a similar action. Some sharks try coming in from underneath to catch their prey off guard and eat them in a single bite.

Your generalization therefore is false.

 

[payasofobia]

Don't end the match without noone left to argue with the other side.

 

[Nitros14]

Ganondorf without magic? What's he going to do? Hit the heavily armoured dragon turtle with his now non-magical sword that he can barely lift? Bowser is kind of way bigger and stronger and if Brawl is any indication Bowser is considerably faster and more agile. Ganondorf was always shown to rely on dark magic.

Bowser is just going to bite/rip his head off and be done with it.

 

[xepherthree]

Throw the sword > pick it up. It's possible. <_<

Yeah, and it's possible Bowser is just gonna ignore it.

 

[Salem]

Wrong.

Then again I was a little wrong too.

You guys are still trying to use stuff from the games when this is as RL as possible.

And he's not even close to a dinosaur, dragon maybe, but dragons don't really exist beside the Komodo dragon.

Which he'd actually be a fusion of, that and the turtle.
and lol, they both rush in and attack interesting ain't it?

The shell in the end still slows him down alot, turtles will always get slowed down by it.

And in the end of WW or TP it's shown he doesn't really need his magic to fight.
Stop looking at OOT Ganon.

 

[payasofobia]

Anyway, give me time to prepare my counter arguments before deciding the match.

 

[payasofobia]

See, here's the problem with concentrating on one aspect of a character for a while, people get the often-mistakened impression that this one argument is the primary point, and without it the entire argument fails.


No, not in the slightest.


The issues brought up with ICs in successfully fighting peach are as follows:

1. They're young kids, even without her being physically fit, they're still early enough in their development that she has the advantage.

2. Mountain-climbing interfered with their normal growth, so they have muscular degeneration and are actually weaker then normal kids their age.

3. Their CANON weaponry is ineffective.

4. Peach has bombs that act like grenades.

5. They are 3 times the width of peach, therefore they have morbid obesity.


One of those arguments was disproved, namely that she had bombs that act like grenades. Of course, they're still effective, just less so.


That still leaves arguments 1-3 and 5 that you have no response to.



Arguments that Peach would lose are as follows:

1. There's two of them.

Response: They're still less effective then Peach for the above reasons, even together.


2. They're more physically fit then her.

Response: They're morbidly obease as shown by their proportions, and kids their age are simply not capable of competing with the raw strength of a grown women, it's too early in their development. Also, there's the issue of muscular degeneration.

3. Their weapons are better.

Response: Their better weapons are non-canonical.





In other words there are an enormous number of issues you need to contend, the fact that her bombs are not as useful as originally thought in this match-up shifts it very little.

1)Arguments that make this point null.

1) Never in canon has it said that they are 2 young kids. They have only EVER appeared in one canon game, and you could say, with logic, that they are as big as a normal human when comparing them with polar bears.

They are 3/5 as big as a male polar bear, which are 11 ft high when standing.

That's 3.35 meters high.

3/5 is 2 meters high. That's as big as ganon.

If that is not enoguh and you argue that they look like kids in Brawl, so they MUST be kids, there is this:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ArtisticAge


2) Peach's grenades (in fact, primitive grebades) were made specifically to burn ships and the like. They are VERY innefective against infantry. The only way they could kill if it the climbers caught on fire and did nothing about it.

And I already proved that Peach's grenades are primitive bombs.


3) Their bad proportions:

That's their coats.




Even if their canon weapons suck, they could still take a princess in a frilly dress with no other protection than really ****y grenades and a parasol.

Thats a lady with a parasol and some fire works trying to fight against 2 mexican muggers.

Ice Climbers win.

 

[Memorable_Random_Guy]

I think you made the Ice climbers broken.

Now they are 2 Ganons. Without weapons, but still...2 ganons.

Which can steal the Oponnent's weapons.

 

[xepherthree]

Stuff +

Ice Climbers win.

:bigthumbu
Paya, you're too good.

EDIT @ MRG
Yeah.
And I think 7ft people can carry 3ft mallets >.>

 

[Ray_Kalm]

I still don't know why beast Ganon isn't being used. He IS Ganondorf's true form.

 

[Memorable_Random_Guy]

Because in neither OoT, WW or TP, it was its true form.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Because in neither OoT, WW or TP, it was its truew form.

Yes it was, it was his true form in both OoT and TP. Read the history.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Wait a minute. Ganondorf could change from beast Ganon to human Ganon, or vice-versa. If Ganondorf's true form is his beast form, then that would mean we should use his BEAST form and put it in the real world, not his human form.

 

[JOE!]

we are not using beast ganon because he doesnt appear in Smash in any *significant* form.

Read teh OP better

@salem:

Read the rest of our arguments. You are simply going "lol he is turtle", when he clearly only shares teh characteristic of a shell with turtles. Hell, xep even showed a vid of a TURTLE going very fast.

Bowser has too many things going for him.

@Ganon throwing his sword:

1) he only has 1 sword.

2) if he had multiple itd mean he is much slower

3) if he tosses it, there goes his weapon

4) swords arent designed to be thrown, it wouldnt do **** to bowser on hit, if it DOES hit that is


why do you think spears are invented? they are the throwing weapons....

 

[Ray_Kalm]

we are not using beast ganon because he doesnt appear in Smash in any *significant* form.

So wait, your using characters from smash, not their original game? If that's the case, Bowser should be readjusted to his nerfed brawl size.

 

[Salem]

we are not using beast ganon because he doesnt appear in Smash in any *significant* form.

Read teh OP better

@salem:

Read the rest of our arguments. You are simply going "lol he is turtle", when he clearly only shares teh characteristic of a shell with turtles. Hell, xep even showed a vid of a TURTLE going very fast.

Bowser has too many things going for him.

@Ganon throwing his sword:

1) he only has 1 sword.

2) if he had multiple itd mean he is much slower

3) if he tosses it, there goes his weapon

4) swords arent designed to be thrown, it wouldnt do **** to bowser on hit, if it DOES hit that is


why do you think spears are invented? they are the throwing weapons....

They aren't for throwing, but that doesn't mean you can't use it that way to do massive damage.

Also that doesn't mean Bowser's that kind of turtle...

 

[Ray_Kalm]

And, another thing, why was Giga Bowser included in the "Deadliest Boss" list? I don't remember him being a boss. He's a final smash of a character, if you included him, why did you leave out Wario's, and Ganon's final smash?

 

[xepherthree]

So wait, your using characters from smash, not their original game? If that's the case, Bowser should be readjusted to his nerfed brawl size.

JOE never said that. Well, yes and no. Is he using characters from smash? yes. Is smash canon? no. Beast Ganon isn't controllable, or in the SSE, so beast ganon isnt considered in brawl.

 

[JOE!]

he isnt any kindof turtle...

and a sword thrown would do significant damage for upto like...5-6 feet until it just falls to the ground

@Ray: we take the CHARACTERS from smash, and use their canon to predict how they will work in RL.

Beast ganon is a different CHARACTER from Ganondorf. Read the OP better

@RAY AGAIN:
DID YOU REALLY SAY GIGA BOWSER IS ONLY IN BRAWL?!

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Oh, I see.

And, another thing, why was Giga Bowser included in the "Deadliest Boss" list? I don't remember him being a boss. He's a final smash of a character, if you included him, why did you leave out Wario's, and Ganon's final smash?

 

[Salem]

he isnt any kindof turtle...

and a sword thrown would do significant damage for upto like...5-6 feet until it just falls to the ground

@Ray: we take the CHARACTERS from smash, and use their canon to predict how they will work in RL.

Beast ganon is a different CHARACTER from Ganondorf. Read the OP better

@RAY AGAIN:
DID YOU REALLY SAY GIGA BOWSER IS ONLY IN BRAWL?!

Edit:

OMG

Koopa = Turtle

And if you put the game in japanese in Melee it says his name is "Koopa"
Meaning he's some kind of turtle, probably a snapping turtle fused with a Komodo dragon.

I also read it somewhere that said Koopa means Turtle, unless I have read it wrong.

Giga Bowser is in Melee. >_>

 

[Ray_Kalm]

@RAY AGAIN:
DID YOU REALLY SAY GIGA BOWSER IS ONLY IN BRAWL?!

He's a boss in another game? I didn't know that. Beast Ganon is also a boss, why did you leave him out?

 

[JOE!]

He's a boss in another game? I didn't know that. Beast Ganon is also a boss, why did you leave him out?

dude....this is the third time you've just posted 100% utter ignorance

 

[Ray_Kalm]

dude....this is the third time you've just posted 100% utter ignorance

Alright, but you completely ignored the second half of my post.

Beast Ganon is a boss in another game, why did you leave him out?

 

[JOE!]

because he isnt in Smash, ive explained this

 

[REL38]

1)Arguments that make this point null.

1) Never in canon has it said that they are 2 young kids. They have only EVER appeared in one canon game, and you could say, with logic, that they are as big as a normal human when comparing them with polar bears.

They are 3/5 as big as a male polar bear, which are 11 ft high when standing.

That's 3.35 meters high.

3/5 is 2 meters high. That's as big as ganon.

If that is not enoguh and you argue that they look like kids in Brawl, so they MUST be kids, there is this:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ArtisticAge


2) Peach's grenades (in fact, primitive grebades) were made specifically to burn ships and the like. They are VERY innefective against infantry. The only way they could kill if it the climbers caught on fire and did nothing about it.

And I already proved that Peach's grenades are primitive bombs.


3) Their bad proportions:

That's their coats.




Even if their canon weapons suck, they could still take a princess in a frilly dress with no other protection than really ****y grenades and a parasol.

Thats a lady with a parasol and some fire works trying to fight against 2 mexican muggers.

Ice Climbers win.

Utilizing size from an NES game hardly justifies height.

In Super Mario Bros., Mario is just as tall as Bowser. But through other games, canon or not, it is shown that Bowser is actually much taller than Mario.

During the NES era and games afterward, many objects were not up to scale by any standards. They had a tendency to make anything notable into a larger size so it can be noticed. Items, enemies and characters were never scaled into original size for the soul factor of pixel limitations.

Nothing was scaled on any type of level.

Logical reasoning does not give the Ice Climbers the ability change into being adults when they were never adults to begin with.

If this were the case, then the IC's would have been significantly different in the Smash series to make them appear older and taller.

A perfect example is Pit. He had the appearance of a young teenager or even a young adult. But who was to say his exact age?

Smash revealed his true age and appearance. Nintendo could have very well have decided to make Pit appear as a young child, but they chose to represent him as a teenage boy.

The same applies to the IC's. Nintendo could have very well have decided to make the IC's appear as strong, tall Inuits, but they didn't.

Nintendo decided to reveal to us that the Ice Climbers are actually young children that climb mountains.

They IC'S are young children due to the fact that Nintendo decided to display them as children. If they were adults, then Nintendo would have displayed them as adults.
But they decided that's not how they're supposed to look like.
Smash is the only place where certain aspects of characters are revealed.



You're assuming Peach's bombs are that of the most prehistoric bomb in the "grenades" lifespan.

http://www.spike.com/full-episode/pirate-vs-knight/31860

Jump to 12 minutes.

The Pirates have a bomb that's called a Grenado.
It's filled with gun powder and nails.
It's lethal.
It has a rope fuse.
Peach has this.


The bulkyness of the Climbers can be given to the coats.
I'll give you that.

But the rest still stands as them being children that have muscle degeneration from climbing mountains when they shouldn't be.

 

[Salem]

because he isnt in Smash, ive explained this

He has a trophy and he's Ganon's Final Smash.

What are you talking about? >_>

 

[Ray_Kalm]

because he isnt in Smash, ive explained this

What are you talking about? He is in smash. As a final smash. Just like Giga Bowser.

 

[payasofobia]

...do the ICs win then?

JOE!?



Anyway, I'll post some stats that we have overlooked in the Bowser MU.

 

[JOE!]

is he an actual character, or just a trophy/attack?

going by this, we can include even the **** bird that carries teh IC's in because it's "in smash"

 

[Ray_Kalm]

is he an actual character, or just a trophy/attack?

going by this, we can include even the **** bird that carries teh IC's in because it's "in smash"

Is Giga Bowser an actual character? Is Rayquaza an actual character? Are any of the other deadliest bosses actual characters?

 

[JOE!]

yes, because you can interact with them in the game.

they can attack you, you can attack it.

this means they are an actual entity, unlike Beast ganon who only appears as a final smash attack, nothing more

 

[REL38]

Giga Bowser was a Boss in Melee.

Even though he wasn't in Brawl, he was still a Boss in Melee.

The Deadliest Brawler takes characters and bosses from both Melee and Brawl.

Beast Ganon was NEVER a boss in Brawl or in Melee.


Just cuz he was a boss in another game doesn't make it okay to use him in here.
Beast Ganon is just another Final Smash in Brawl.

Giga Bowser is a Final Smash in Brawl, as well, but he was a Boss in Melee

@Payas

Peach wins.
The IC's are still kids.
Peach still has lethal bombs.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Oh, that explains it REL.

 

[xepherthree]

Oh, that explains it REL.

:hipsmile:
Actually, it does.

 

[UncleSam]

final smashes
EDIT: too late