TDB: SEASON 2! LEON (RE4) vs LARA CROFT

[payasofobia]

27 does not look at all like a rouncd, black bomb...


Not even the color matches.




Ooooh....sarcasm.

 

[Skadorski]

It looks like the one in your pic.
You find it lol.
My Wikipedia is down, so it's up to you Payas for the grenade info.

 

[Nova9000]

Peach doesn't have Yoshi's head

-If she doesn't chase them then how does she win? Shot putting bombs? She has never had to face 2 foes simultaneously and since she can't focus on two, her bomb throwing would reflect that. Realistically, what she's trying to do is hit two moving target with explosives the size of softballs. You ever try hitting anything moving with softballs? For Peach this would be very awkward.

Well, since she had a good pitch, she should just focus on one only.

-You have yet to prove to me she is skillful or fast in anything outside of the olympic/sport games. If she was skilled she would move away so Bowser wouldn't kidnap her so frequently. If she were fast she'd outrun him. The fact is, Nintendo has Peach fighting in only like 2 games. This is why her smash setup is so based off of Mario Bros. 2. Besides that and her recent game, she doesn't do anything but become a reason for Mario to fight Bowser. If she had skill she would play more vital roles in the adventures of Mario, but she doesn't (Plus she's a blonde). If she were fast she wouldn't have lost her first two matches in the thread.

She has been on adventure more than Zelda, since she is somehow part of the argument, I told you what she does, REL told you her items, the way Bowser kidnaps Peach means she can't run, twice he kidnapped her whole castle!Besides, Peach was in her dress.
Since you're saying Peach is an excuse for Mario to rescue her, Zelda only becomes a reason for Ganon to kidnap and Link to save (I still don't understand why she is part of the discussion).
Peach lost the first two matches because she can't outspeed a bow, that doesn't make her slow, and I was under the impression that Sheik was Zelda, all Sheik did was run away and throw Deku nuts in her games IIRC, plus needles aren't THAT good of a weapon =/




What makes you think they would approach from behind? Why can't Peach approach from behind? Besides they're slow =/

Zelda was brought up because I said Peach is the most lethargic princess and REL brought up Zelda and started comparing the two. Ganon wanted the trifore actually; it just so happened that Zelda had part of it so she was in the mix. And she helped Link in the battles with Ganon; Peach is no where to be found in the battles Mario and Bowser have. But enough of that.

Peach doesn't have Yoshi's head but that point was made to provide a reason why using the stats from the Olympic game is canonical.
http://www.olympicvideogames.com/marioandsonic/us/
Check it out for yourself.
Peach would focus on one and the other one would close in and kill Peach. She would have to keep her eyes on her back the entire time or she will die. Since she cannot, she loses. And how can she approach one of them from behind their back? The other will follow both of them and wail her. And for her to follow one of them requires her to run, which is what you said she doesn't have to do. And they would approach from behind because they are aware of their advantage and are using it.


And once again I ask how is she going to carry all of these things? This is madness...

 

[justaway12]

Zelda was brought up because I said Peach is the most lethargic princess and REL brought up Zelda and started comparing the two. Ganon wanted the trifore actually; it just so happened that Zelda had part of it so she was in the mix. And she helped Link in the battles with Ganon; Peach is no where to be found in the battles Mario and Bowser have. But enough of that.

Umm...she was to be found, but you're right, not important

Peach doesn't have Yoshi's head but that point was made to provide a reason why using the stats from the Olympic game is canonical.
http://www.olympicvideogames.com/marioandsonic/us/

Unless if conflicts with real-life we can use it, If Ganondorf was the fastest man on earth everytime Zelda was playable in a game, and we found out it was impossible for Ganon to run that fast, would we still include her items?

Spoiler

Bad explanation is bad -_-;

Check it out for yourself.
Peach would focus on one and the other one would close in and kill Peach. She would have to keep her eyes on her back the entire time or she will die. Since she cannot, she loses. And how can she approach one of them from behind their back? The other will follow both of them and wail her. And for her to follow one of them requires her to run, which is what you said she doesn't have to do. And they would approach from behind because they are aware of their advantage and are using it.

Oh my, it seems we're going in a loop, the Ice Climbers wouldn't be fast enough to approach her, and if she kills one, since they are such a great team! (as you said so yourself) and they are such little kids, they probably won't be able to handle the loss, and run away or cry or expose themselves

And once again I ask how is she going to carry all of these things? This is madness...

I already said I don't think she needs to carry ALL those things, just her bombs and a frying pan (just in case!)

 

[RetroAntonio]

Bowser...well hmm...Ganon loses, because only human form can exist, but then again...Bowser is a turtle, a snapping turtle...So Ganon wins?

 

[adumbrodeus]

Because they don't have the shape of a concussion grenade:

They look like thos black, round fuse bombs from cartoons......are those real? I can't find any info on them because I don't know their real name...


And I am kind of busy right now.

There are many types of concussive grenades and they can be made in a variety of shapes and sizes, as can shrapnel grenades, what distinguishes them is the inside.

In general, being rounded makes them easier to throw, regardless of other factors.


Remember, we're not talking about what grenades have actually been made, the question is, "can a concusive grenade be made that has the attributes of peach's nades"?

The answer is yes.

Peach would focus on one and the other one would close in and kill Peach. She would have to keep her eyes on her back the entire time or she will die. Since she cannot, she loses. And how can she approach one of them from behind their back? The other will follow both of them and wail her. And for her to follow one of them requires her to run, which is what you said she doesn't have to do. And they would approach from behind because they are aware of their advantage and are using it.

They have to approach first.

And once again I ask how is she going to carry all of these things? This is madness...

Grenades are not hard to carry, they're pretty light, she doesn't have an unlimited supply of course, but she would have a reasonable number.

Peach lost the first two matches because she can't outspeed a bow, that doesn't make her slow, and I was under the impression that Sheik was Zelda, all Sheik did was run away and throw Deku nuts in her games IIRC, plus needles aren't THAT good of a weapon =/

No, that was one of the most ridiculously one-sided match-ups in the game, my quote on it was signature material (in spite of a grammar mistake) under the caption "how fair is the deadliest brawler?".


Zelda literally beat peach in just about every situation, Bow beats her at far range, bombs are SLIGHT advantage for a short distance, and then Zelda just ***** her in close combat in spite of Peach actually having "weapons".

Check the initial match-up, Zelda is actually quite good here.

 

[payasofobia]

Stuff

Are you with or against Peach?

Because the post Nova responded to seemed to go against her.

 

[justaway12]

Are you with or against Peach?

Because the post Nova responded to seemed to go against her.

He responded to mine, I just forgot to put out quote tags >.<

@Adumb:I meant to say Peach couldn't even approach, I word some things awfully.

 

[adumbrodeus]

THIS NEEDS TO BE EMPHASIZED

If she doesn't chase them then how does she win? Shot putting bombs? She has never had to face 2 foes simultaneously and since she can't focus on two, her bomb throwing would reflect that. Realistically, what she's trying to do is hit two moving target with explosives the size of softballs. You ever try hitting anything moving with softballs? For Peach this would be very awkward.

NO!

This is like trying to hit two moving targets with a ball that's 98.5 feet across.



That's 3 of these choppers, (not including the rotors)

Assuming they're frag grenades, if they're concussive the AOE is signifigantly reduced, but still, it's very easy to hit with them.

He responded to mine, I just forgot to put out quote tags >.<

@Adumb:I meant to say Peach couldn't even approach, I word some things awfully.

Ok, but Zelda is quite effective in this game.


Also, needles SUCK IRL.

 

[payasofobia]

There are many types of concussive grenades and they can be made in a variety of shapes and sizes, as can shrapnel grenades, what distinguishes them is the inside.

In general, being rounded makes them easier to throw, regardless of other factors.


Remember, we're not talking about what grenades have actually been made, the question is, "can a concusive grenade be made that has the attributes of peach's nades"?

The answer is yes.

It does matter.

The trigger...the amount of explosives inside...the materials etc have to be of a specific type for the nade to work.


If it lacks many of the mechanism that make modern nades so effective and safe, I think this could seriously hinder Peach.

 

[Nova9000]

Umm...she was to be found, but you're right, not important



Unless if conflicts with real-life we can use it, If Ganondorf was the fastest man on earth everytime Zelda was playable in a game, and we found out it was impossible for Ganon to run that fast, would we still include her items?

Spoiler

Bad explanation is bad -_-;

Oh my, it seems we're going in a loop, the Ice Climbers wouldn't be fast enough to approach her, and if she kills one, since they are such a great team! (as you said so yourself) and they are such little kids, they probably won't be able to handle the loss, and run away or cry or expose themselves



I already said I don't think she needs to carry ALL those things, just her bombs and a frying pan (just in case!)

1.That example is horrible. You can't even come up for a rebuttal for that. Peach can't do everything she can in every game; it's canonical. Good try though.

2. What are you saying? Who said the ICs are too slow to approach? Let me try to explain this again:
When the ICs start, they would separate to surround Peach. Peach would have to choose which one to focus on, and throw bombs at that one IC. The IC who isn't being attacked would stop circling and move directly in on Peach. If Peach wold choose to turn around, and attack the free IC, the roles would reverse. This would continue until they are within rope range of her. They could break it out and wrap Peach up. Now, If Peach doesn't turn around, then the IC has a free shot to kill her behind her back. You mention Peach attacking them behind their back but the ICs are in the advantaged position when that wouldn't happen due to it being two of them.

3. Ok. that makes sense if she carries only those weapons.

 

[payasofobia]

Oh, found the nade:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c5/Liquid_fire_granades_Chania.jpg

It does not use explosives. Rather, it uses black powder and a rope fuse to work. Byzantines invented them and were primitive grenades.

It can burn, but it does not kill unless the person catches on fire.


And those spiky things around it? Don't mind them. They are unrelated to the grenades.

 

[Nova9000]

@ adum
What are you saying? That Peach's bombs will have as much force as a concussive grenade? Or that she doesn't have to be very accurate with her throws with the bombs?

 

[justaway12]

1.That example is horrible. You can't even come up for a rebuttal for that. Peach can't do everything she can in every game; it's canonical. Good try though.

Read my spoilers >.>
my point is if she is if she is shown to do it without real life standing in her way like Yoshi, she should do it, as I said to Adumbrodeus, my wording is HORRIBLE sometime

2. What are you saying? Who said the ICs are too slow to approach?

Their legs looks stubby >.>
Besides, I don't think cleates are the best running shoes in the world >.>

When the ICs start, they would separate to surround Peach. Peach would have to choose which one to focus on, and throw bombs at that one IC.

It's not that hard to focus on one.

The IC who isn't being attacked would stop circling and move directly in on Peach. If Peach wold choose to turn around, and attack the free IC, the roles would reverse. This would continue until they are within rope range of her. They could break it out and wrap Peach up. Now, If Peach doesn't turn around, then the IC has a free shot to kill her behind her back. You mention Peach attacking them behind their back but the ICs are in the advantaged position when that wouldn't happen due to it being two of them.

But...why would she keep changing directions, if she has one in her sights, she could just throw it at him/her.
They would be a long ways away, Peach isn't stupid enough to keep focusing on one of them, if one just comes to close range they are dead.

 

[payasofobia]

Oh, found the nade:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c5/Liquid_fire_granades_Chania.jpg

It does not use explosives. Rather, it uses black powder and a rope fuse to work. Byzantines invented them and were primitive grenades.

It can burn, but it does not kill unless the person catches on fire.


And those spiky things around it? Don't mind them. They are unrelated to the grenades.

http://www.handgrenade.info/history-of-hand-grenade.html

 

[adumbrodeus]

It does matter.

The trigger...the amount of explosives inside...the materials etc have to be of a specific type for the nade to work.


If it lacks many of the mechanism that make modern nades so effective and safe, I think this could seriously hinder Peach.

The thing is, coloring doesn't mean much, all you need to do is paint them black and they get that look.

Oh, found the nade:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c5/Liquid_fire_granades_Chania.jpg

It does not use explosives. Rather, it uses black powder and a rope fuse to work. Byzantines invented them and were primitive grenades.

It can burn, but it does not kill unless the person catches on fire.


And those spiky things around it? Don't mind them. They are unrelated to the grenades.

There were a lot of explosives that looked like that over the years.


The thing is, that the effect of this grenade suggests a modern grenade that bears a resemblance to those primitive grenades.

@ adum
What are you saying? That Peach's bombs will have as much force as a concussive grenade? Or that she doesn't have to be very accurate with her throws with the bombs?

Not very accurate at all.

Grenades have a large OAE.

 

[JOE!]

Back, and @ backdraft:

You said Zard could have one, Adum, but where are his pics?

Also, the pics of bowser dont even show the back of his throat...theres no evidence of him *not* having one.

Same deal goes for Charizard, how can you say bowser doesnt when you dont have the same evidence for Zard?

Also, would it be that big a deal to say they had one (due to evolution) seeing as the fire is comparitivly fail anyways?

 

[REL38]

Oh, found the nade:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c5/Liquid_fire_granades_Chania.jpg

It does not use explosives. Rather, it uses black powder and a rope fuse to work. Byzantines invented them and were primitive grenades.

It can burn, but it does not kill unless the person catches on fire.


And those spiky things around it? Don't mind them. They are unrelated to the grenades.

Those grenades you're talking about are extremely primitive.

These are French ones. They're also rounded.

They're were used in the late 18th century.

Peach's bombs made a big blast. Not dinky burns.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Back, and @ backdraft:

You said Zard could have one, Adum, but where are his pics?

Also, the pics of bowser dont even show the back of his throat...theres no evidence of him *not* having one.

Same deal goes for Charizard, how can you say bowser doesnt when you dont have the same evidence for Zard?

Also, would it be that big a deal to say they had one (due to evolution) seeing as the fire is comparitivly fail anyways?

I said zard could have one cause I'm too lazy to check lol

I truthfully don't have a canonical pic that includes the right angle for me to know.


False palettes aren't in the back of throats.

 

[JOE!]

infront of the throat

anywho, community vote:

should zard and boozer have this trait, seeing as we have no evidence to either yes or no, but it would make sense for them to?

 

[Nova9000]

Read my spoilers >.>
my point is if she is if she is shown to do it without real life standing in her way like Yoshi, she should do it, as I said to Adumbrodeus, my wording is HORRIBLE sometime



Their legs looks stubby >.>
Besides, I don't think cleates are the best running shoes in the world >.>




It's not that hard to focus on one.



But...why would she keep changing directions, if she has one in her sights, she could just throw it at him/her.
They would be a long ways away, Peach isn't stupid enough to keep focusing on one of them, if one just comes to close range they are dead.

It's one thing to not word well. It's another when its wrong. Pokemon stats aren't taken into consideration in MU due to canon. The same for this game.

Cleats are what runners use outside of a track. Cleats are the shoe of choice for a runner.

It may not be hard to focus on one, but the other will sneak up and go for the kill. And how are they dead? If she never sees them coming, then how can she grab the frying pan and swing? (unless she turns around). If she turns around, then the targeted IC can close in. But then what your saying is a contradiction unless you misunderstood my take on the match.
Anyway, can you explain how you see this match going? I explained how I see it and you didn't see it my way. So maybe if you explain your view I can better understand what you are implying.

And adum, REL, or Just, show me peach's bombs and the blast radius of them.

 

[Rialdospaldacht]

I don't even care if Bowser has fire or not. I can't see any way Ganondorf'll win this.

This sucks. I came in wanting to support Ganondorf, but then he's up against mini Godzilla.

 

[adumbrodeus]

infront of the throat

anywho, community vote:

should zard and boozer have this trait, seeing as we have no evidence to either yes or no, but it would make sense for them to?

 

[JOE!]

it can open

 

[payasofobia]

Those grenades you're talking about are extremely primitive.

These are French ones. They're also rounded.

They're were used in the late 18th century.

Peach's bombs made a big blast. Not dinky burns.

If you look carefully, you can see that they have lighted rope fuses in those things.

Here, I'll help you out:

http://www.mariowiki.com/images/f/f3/RPG_Psych_Bomb.png

They have lighted rope fuses. The only type of grenades that used those were primitive ones.

 

[JOE!]

so, she has grenados?

 

[tocador]

How can boozer deal with a sword?

Yeah.... He cant.

Ganon wins.

 

[payasofobia]

so, she has grenados?

Did you watch 300?

Do you remember that scene where the persians were using "magic" by throwing grenades that sent sparkles flying?

That's how fuse rope grenades work.

They are useless against infantry.

 

[JOE!]

How can boozer deal with a sword?

Yeah.... He cant.

Ganon wins.

by being like...lets see...

ganon is 7ft.....id gamble around like...320lbs? maybe more lets say 320 though

bowser is 4000lbs

he is 12.5x bigger

 

[Rialdospaldacht]

How can boozer deal with a sword?

Yeah.... He cant.

Ganon wins.

Honestly, Bowser could probably tank it if on the body. There's no way Ganondorf could get through his body far enough to hit vital organs. Thus the further it goes in the harder it'll be to get it out and the more screwed he is. The best he could do is try to stab Bowser in the eyes without being killed and hope he somehow dies from that. His ridiculous height will help a lot with that.

I still don't think Ganondorf will win, though.

EDIT: JOE, why are you using his Smash size? He should be closer to how big he is in LoZ to make it more fair.

 

[payasofobia]

http://www.serebii.net/smash_bros_2/characters/ganondorf.jpg

He lacks the sharp tip to impale bowser.

The only thing he can do is powerful, but slow swings.

 

[REL38]

@Payas

That's a matter of percpective.

I just see a pixel of orange. That could very well be the trigger.

I'm not trying to sound biased here, but that's what I see XP

The black pixel makes me say it's a trigger pulled from the side (what's left of it).

A rope fuse would lead directly into it, not from the side. A design like that could result in the fuse being disrupted as it must travel that extra black part to set off.

 

[JOE!]

@Rial:

if he were like, 9ft he'd have biological and sensory problems. it'd hamper him more than help

 

[justaway12]

It's one thing to not word well. It's another when its wrong. Pokemon stats aren't taken into consideration in MU due to canon. The same for this game.

the thing is, in that game he was fast, but seeing as how his head was big it didn't carry over well, there is nothing wrong with her running fast, especially after every sport game she was in.

Cleats are what runners use outside of a track. Cleats are the shoe of choice for a runner.

Thinking of somrthing else sorry >.>

It may not be hard to focus on one, but the other will sneak up and go for the kill. And how are they dead? If she never sees them coming, then how can she grab the frying pan and swing? (unless she turns around). If she turns around, then the targeted IC can close in. But then what your saying is a contradiction unless you misunderstood my take on the match.

If one get's killed, the other might get scared etc. etc. I'm sorry I don't like reapeting myself

Anyway, can you explain how you see this match going? I explained how I see it and you didn't see it my way. So maybe if you explain your view I can better understand what you are implying.

The match starts, the ICs decide to get closer, circling her, Peach figures out she is in trouble, or she hates them (or whatever), she aims and fires her bomb at one of them, let's just say Popo gets hit, Nana (being the BFF that she is, and a child so probably) diverts from the original plan as she has lost her brother/BFF/Whatever and goes to attack Peach, Peach finds her and throws the bomb, or hits her with her frying pan.
Nana couldn't approach fast enough because of her stubby legs

 

[payasofobia]

It's probably the nades rolliing around mid-flight, and the rope is already burned out?.

I don't know. I will admit the perspective is bad. But logic dictates its there because no modern nades light with fire.

And I doubt peach has real grenades. Those don't explode inmediatly after hitting the ground. Old man nades do.



JUSTAWAY: GO TO SLEEP! ELSE YOU WILL BECOME A SHAMBLING ZOMBIE!

 

[tocador]

http://www.serebii.net/smash_bros_2/characters/ganondorf.jpg

He lacks the sharp tip to impale bowser.

The only thing he can do is powerful, but slow swings.

He dosent need to impale, he can just swing the sword, and dosent matter how boozer thrys to stop it(xecp dodgin) he will get cut.

Ganon is just a tad smaller than boozer, and has a giant sword, plus he has such a massive strentgh. He will just rip apart anything boozers trys to block with.

Sword > No-sword.

 

[REL38]

The match starts, the ICs decide to get closer, circling her, Peach figures out she is in trouble, or she hates them (or whatever), she aims and fires her bomb at one of them, let's just say Popo gets hit, Nana (being the BFF that she is, and a child so probably) diverts from the original plan as she has lost her brother/BFF/Whatever and goes to attack Peach, Peach finds her and throws the bomb, or hits her with her frying pan.
Nana couldn't approach fast enough because of her stubby legs

Popo would probably be the one with the pick for obvious reasons.
Nana would be left lugging about a mallet too big to use.

Easy pickin' if you ask me.
She knocks Nana in the head with the pan, Nana's disoriented, Peach takes out the crown . . . you know the drill.

@Payas

Not seein' it. I don't believe they'd go to that extra little effort to do something like that. It probably woulda been very easy to do, but also very easy to overlook.

 

[JOE!]

i allready said he is 12.5 x heavier....and lets see:

he is 10ft, and about 15ft long and imma say 7ft wide

he takes up a space of: 1050

ganon is 7ft tall, 2.5ft long, 3.5ft wide

he takes up a space of: 61.25

1050/61.25= 17.15 x bigger

so, 12.5x heavier, 17.15x more massive

yeah, small size difference

 

[adumbrodeus]

It's probably the nades rolliing around mid-flight, and the rope is already burned out?.

I don't know. I will admit the perspective is bad. But logic dictates its there because no modern nades light with fire.

And I doubt peach has real grenades. Those don't explode inmediatly after hitting the ground. Old man nades do.

Properly cooked nades? That suggests a certain amount of skill and it's more realistic then combining these contradictory attributes.


And really that's the thing, it's one pixel, it could be a fuse, or it could be part of the triggering mechanism, it's impossible to tell.

 

[payasofobia]

He dosent need to impale, he can just swing the sword, and dosent matter how boozer thrys to stop it(xecp dodgin) he will get cut.

Ganon is just a tad smaller than boozer, and has a giant sword, plus he has such a massive strentgh. He will just rip apart anything boozers trys to block with.

Sword > No-sword.

Big size>Sword.


Do you know how much of an advantage in range Bowser has in brawl because of his size?

Even with the greatly nerfed size?

Now make that bigger. And include a fairly short and yet very heavy sword that lacks offensive options for Ganon (no tip).


Bowser will most likely outrange and ouspeed him because his movements actually come out as natural and because of his massive size, unlike Ganon who has to swing extra weight around.