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TDB: SEASON 2! LEON (RE4) vs LARA CROFT

justaway12

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She can use the equpiment. But what you were saying was she is in shape because of the games that she was in participating in sports. Anyone can swing a golf club around and do damage.
We didn't give it to her all willy-nilly, we gave it to her because she was in the game =/

Bowser would never play a friendly game of anything with Mario, or any of them for that matter.
In Mario Power Tennis Bowser bombed the stadium, I would hardly call him friendly in Super Mario Strickers >.>
Why are we disscussing how fast Peach is anyway =/
I realized that the Ice-climbers will be the ones approaching the bombs with that huge blast radius.


And we never used stats from any other game to validate a character's strength; why would we now (made this point already)?
Well, how else are we going to find out? Anyway, even if she didn't have stats, she would be the one to make them approach, they would need to be the one to move out of the way, and with such stubby legs, I doubt it would be that easy =/

I never saw that rope plan working, I don't even know why I just didn't go back to the original argument in the first place >.>
 

adumbrodeus

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Getting hit by only a bit of fragments(if you are over 6m of hte explosion) would cause medium to no pain. Sometimes even almost no pain(10m+) as you are too far and the fragments go everywhere.
*facepalm*


These things are RATED for specific killzones, you know, the military goes out and tests the range that these things reliably kill or wound people at.


These are hyper-accelerated, extremely hot fragments, designed to have a certain distance where they reliably wound or kill, if you're in 15 meters of the explosion, you're getting heavily wounded.







No they arent. As soon as she trows a nade, the time for it to travel, what, 20 metters, is time enough you can run more than 10 metters. It isnt that hard to dont get killed by them.
Lolno.

Throwing is faster then running, many times.

Top running speed is 26 MPH (world champion sprinter). Top throwing speed is 92.

Add that to the fact that the ICs gotta react and you're talking about both being significantly slower, and a great deal more time is needed to accelerate, and well, that's slightly ridiculous.


Escaping AOE is unrealistic for olympic-class runners, short children can't accomplish this.



And when she is killing one the other stands still right?
*Throws 2 grenades*



Old grenades used to take about 5 seconds or more to explode after triggered. "Waiting" a little time isnt as easy as you think, if you wait to long, mid-air explosion, if you wait to little, they can run or throw it back.
Count to one, then toss. There's no need to be precise so it will serve.




This screws up prescision even more.
With an AOE that large, you don't need precision.


It isnt that easy, what is "holding for a second", is she going to have a clock alongside with her? Holding for a sec is different from person to person, and in a need to calculate trajetories and cook them and look for 2 of them at the same tiem screws your mind up.
Count to one, precision isn't needed here.








They assemble to old grenades and the game is kinda oldish, we cant assume they have a better tech than now-a-days, and like visual is our only info here, it is only logical to assume they are old.
*sigh*

"Old" grenades are WWII era grenades, the grenades of the game's time are modern grenades.




You are dumb for putting words on my mouth. I never said they had smaller Aoe than new ones. If you cant read dont blame me for it ¬¬. I only said that the Aoe in which they would at least be effective was 2-5(or bellow than 2, but you get my point) metters, i never said this was shorter or bigger than new ones.

Adum, in a need to prove me wrong, you dont stop saying BS, and claim that i said those BS when i didnt and in fact you misread. Dont blame me for it if its your fault.
You're right, I gave you way too much credit.


You were suggesting that ALL grenades have effective AOEs of 2-5 meters, which shows so much lack of knowledge of military tech that's it's just completely ridiculous.


New Grenades have an AOE of 15 meters approximately.


Older grenades generally had larger AOEs, see for example, the Mills Bomb.



This is a very blatent example of "did not do the research", if you're gonna debate about grenades then research them first and actually have some actual information to bring to the table.


@ adum
I asked before can you show me what her bombs/grenades look like and their blast radius. The rest of what you said to me isn't important. If you show me her bombs and how destrucive their are, I'll take back that point. Until then, all this explaining of grenades is inconsequential. :ohwell:
Post 9425.
 

JOE!

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You can't convert virtual size to in real size without considering in real physics. Bowser would weigh much over 8000 lb in real. 8000 lb is too much to carry for someone that's only 10 ft tall.

Where exactly did you get Bowser's current weight?
compared him to large animals on earth, figured he doesnt have the fat/etc that stuff like rhinos have, so i made him a tad lighter than pachyderms of his size :bee:
 

tocador

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*facepalm*


These things are RATED for specific killzones, you know, the military goes out and tests the range that these things reliably kill or wound people at.
Wound =/= Kill. Even good new nades(and old ones after i researched) cant reliably kill after 4.368(aprox 4.5) metters. Just wound.

These are hyper-accelerated, extremely hot fragments, designed to have a certain distance where they reliably wound or kill, if you're in 15 meters of the explosion, you're getting heavily wounded.
Not really, after 8 metters, chances are you are at most getting wounded just as if you had receive a paintball shot.




Lolno.

Throwing is faster then running, many times.

Top running speed is 26 MPH (world champion sprinter). Top throwing speed is 92.

Add that to the fact that the ICs gotta react and you're talking about both being significantly slower, and a great deal more time is needed to accelerate, and well, that's slightly ridiculous.
Peach cnat throw at 92 ;D, nor can accuratly throw even at any speed above 40 mph. Especially if you are going for prescision, throwing it fast would just make the nade pass tha target.

Plus, you most of the times need to predict where the opponent is going, if you throww right and he/she/it goes left, bam, worthless shot and he is still approaching.

Escaping AOE is unrealistic for olympic-class runners, short children can't accomplish this.
You dont get it, people arent still. And the nade wont just pop as soons as it get close to you. Specially if you throw it fast, in which the case it would ust hang out/pass you giving you time to run =/.




*Throws 2 grenades*
Yeah, because peach is heavily trained with prescision skills agaisnt running targets.




Count to one, then toss. There's no need to be precise so it will serve.
The nade will have 4 or more seconds to blow up. And i can assure you its going to hang out a bit before exploding, 1/2 seconds minimum, and its just time enough for you to run a good 5/8 metters.





With an AOE that large, you don't need precision.
Yes you need, ask any militia/soldier and htey will tell you how easy is to throw a grenade ;D.



Count to one, precision isn't needed here.
You dont have a clue on what you are talking about, do you?








*sigh*

"Old" grenades are WWII era grenades, the grenades of the game's time are modern grenades.
Says who?





You're right, I gave you way too much credit.


You were suggesting that ALL grenades have effective AOEs of 2-5 meters, which shows so much lack of knowledge of military tech that's it's just completely ridiculous.

New Grenades have an AOE of 15 meters approximately.
/facepalm

Going by a 15 metters standart, if you have the decency of searching, you will see that grenades dont kill/badly injure at a 15 metter distance from the blow.

If kills untill about, what, 2-3.5 metters(4 if lucky), and after that just injure.

Older grenades generally had larger AOEs, see for example, the Mills Bomb.
Is peach using a mill bomb? Old grenades didnt have larger aoe's. If you think im dumb, try proving it =/.


This is a very blatent example of "did not do the research", if you're gonna debate about grenades then research them first and actually have some actual information to bring to the table.
I have enough info to tell you this: Throwing a grenade and making it kill/badly injure against a running target, when you are a weakling with no training what-so-ever isnt as easy as you make it seem.
 

xepherthree

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-in regards to peach- vs. ICs-
I have a few questions:

1. How far apart do they start? If they close relatively close together, then ICs can just charge peach, and if they're within 15m Peach shouldn't use her grenades.

2. Where is peach getting her bombs from? I'm assuming a bag, and if so how big is it?

3. What other weapons do the ICs have? They have mallets, stakes, and rope. At least that's what been said. They're mountain climbers, they should have more things then that. Like an ice axe.

I feel like this is the falcon-ZSS matchup: No one is explaining the IC's side of the fight. For the most part, all people are saying is"OmgBomb15mAOElolICsAreSlow"
 

justaway12

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I don't see why they would start close-up, no need for introductions, they would probably start far-away.

Peach never held them with anything, but it's common sense to bring one, like Zelda with her quiver and sheath.

They won't be able to carry the mallet, almost as big as them, how would they get close enough to attack with that ice pick?
 

xepherthree

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I don't see why they would start close-up, no need for introductions, they would probably start far-away.

Peach never held them with anything, but it's common sense to bring one, like Zelda with her quiver and sheath.

They won't be able to carry the mallet, almost as big as them, how would they get close enough to attack with that ice pick?
An example of distance? I'm just curious, because of ICs can get roughly around 20m of peach she would be suicidal to use a grenade.

How bombs are in the bag? If there's a large amount, she wouldn't be very mobile, so she couldn't chase the ICs. Just saying. xD

From the website(http://www.climberssupply.com/zzcobrahammer.html):

The Cobra is a staple of hard ice leads and bold alpine routes. This year we've redesigned the shape of our legendary Cobra's lightweight carbon fiber shaft to give it the most clearance of any of our tools without sacrificing balance or axis of rotation. The new silhouette also reduces the overall weight of the Cobra by over 100 grams. The carbon fi ber shaft keeps the majority of the tool's weight in the head. Carbon fiber also provides vibration-free placements with minimal flex, a damp, balanced swing and wrist-flick sticks. Over-molded and textured, a new, minimized rubber grip is integral to the Cobra's lower shaft for a flush fit, positive control and a secure, precise grip. The optional integrated Android Leash can be added for hard ice climbing. Comes equipped with Laser Pick, removable Fang and Strike. Patented.

That couldn't be more then 20lbs. If you're saying thirteen year old MOUNTAIN climbers can't carry a twenty pound ice axe, then that's pretty sad.
 

xepherthree

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@Xeph

Cuz the IC's have no projectiles.

Peach does.

Unless grenade usage is proven worthless, then IC's can't approach/live past them.
Double post for necessary facts.
You just said what I was saying.
OMGBomb15mAOELolICsAreSlow.
And you didn't answer any of my questions.
 

REL38

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@Xeph

That artical says, "this year".

The climbers would have much older climbing materials, not todays.
They'd have stuff from before the game was released.

The IC's wouldn't get that close. Even if they did, Peach retreats while tossing some behind her.

But again, they wouldn't get that close.


EDIT:
1. They'd obviously start off a considerable distance away. It's usually been the size of a football field.

2. A bag with around 5 works. But it's not like they weigh 30 lbs.[

Super Edit:

You wanna see stuff on the nades?
Read what Adumb's been saying.

The climbers would have muscle degeneration from climbing mountains. That makes them even slower and weaker than normal 10/12 year olds.
 

xepherthree

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@Xeph

That artical says, "this year".

The climbers would have much older climbing materials, not todays.
They'd have stuff from before the game was released.

The IC's wouldn't get that close. Even if they did, Peach retreats while tossing some behind her.

But again, they wouldn't get that close.
http://www.climberssupply.com/zzravenpro.html
^ That seems realistic for 1988. And did you answer ANY of my questions?
And really. You basically state the same things over again, peach has bombs and the ICs are slow.
And if the bag has alot of bombs in it, Peach would have to drag the bag. That wouldn't be very fast, and she couldn't throw anymore. You're also making it like 15m is a mile, which it's not. they may be teenagers, but they're not dumb. If they split up and surround her, where would should retreat? If she fled from one, the other would just run in within 15m of peach so she couldn't use bombs. They would take out their ice axe and its all over. And if you're saying peach can "crown-stab", that's really, really stupid.

Oh. 5 bombs. And a football field is 100 yards. The AOE of a grenade is roughly 15 yards. Peach can't hit them from there, so they could just wait it out and see if peach would waste bombs. And if the ICs spread far enough apart, Peach couldn't hit both of them. that's assuming she hit one of them. By the time peach could throw one grenade the other wuold come up and axe her in the face.
 

Ray_Kalm

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compared him to large animals on earth, figured he doesnt have the fat/etc that stuff like rhinos have, so i made him a tad lighter than pachyderms of his size :bee:
Then why don't you compare him to something very heavy that exists in real?
 

xepherthree

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^Read mah edit, boi.

She doesn't have 20 nades, nor do they weigh too much.

And the crown stab was when they only had their mallets.

Edit:
Did that pick come out in 88'?
Read mah edit.
I really don't know, but I'm too lazy to go find one, and its not hard to believe they could resemble that. You can't not think that that's "futuristic".
 

Ray_Kalm

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a rhino or hippo isnt very heavy? o_O

can you mail me what you're smoking? :bee:
By that I meant, compare him to something AS heavy as him.

compared him to large animals on earth, figured he doesnt have the fat/etc that stuff like rhinos have, so i made him a tad lighter than pachyderms of his size :bee:
Bowser's not fat? He's very fat. Much fatter than Rhinos.
 

adumbrodeus

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Wound =/= Kill. Even good new nades(and old ones after i researched) cant reliably kill after 4.368(aprox 4.5) metters. Just wound.




Not really, after 8 metters, chances are you are at most getting wounded just as if you had receive a paintball shot.






Peach cnat throw at 92 ;D, nor can accuratly throw even at any speed above 40 mph. Especially if you are going for prescision, throwing it fast would just make the nade pass tha target.

Plus, you most of the times need to predict where the opponent is going, if you throww right and he/she/it goes left, bam, worthless shot and he is still approaching.



You dont get it, people arent still. And the nade wont just pop as soons as it get close to you. Specially if you throw it fast, in which the case it would ust hang out/pass you giving you time to run =/.






Yeah, because peach is heavily trained with prescision skills agaisnt running targets.






The nade will have 4 or more seconds to blow up. And i can assure you its going to hang out a bit before exploding, 1/2 seconds minimum, and its just time enough for you to run a good 5/8 metters.







Yes you need, ask any militia/soldier and htey will tell you how easy is to throw a grenade ;D.





You dont have a clue on what you are talking about, do you?










Says who?







/facepalm

Going by a 15 metters standart, if you have the decency of searching, you will see that grenades dont kill/badly injure at a 15 metter distance from the blow.

If kills untill about, what, 2-3.5 metters(4 if lucky), and after that just injure.



Is peach using a mill bomb? Old grenades didnt have larger aoe's. If you think im dumb, try proving it =/.




I have enough info to tell you this: Throwing a grenade and making it kill/badly injure against a running target, when you are a weakling with no training what-so-ever isnt as easy as you make it seem.

Look, the BLAST RADIUS (aka the actual explosion) of a M67 is 13.7 meters (the shrapnal flies much further).


Check out the military analysis network, they explain this.




For the Mill's bomb, you can just check it's wikipedia page.



Overall, why were older grenades referred to as DEFENSIVE GRENADES? And why are newer grenades not refereed to as such.



You're not stupid, you just don't know much about weaponry, it's a lack of knowledge issue, not an intelligence one.


Most grenades have 5 second fuses approximately, 4 second fuses are also common.



I'm not saying that it's particularly easy to throw a grenade, however accuracy is something that's very easy to obtain with these things, her throw distance is nerfed, but the fact that she can actually get the grenade to a position where they're inside the blast radius, no, that's gonna happen.
 

REL38

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Read mah edit.
I really don't know, but I'm too lazy to go find one, and its not hard to believe they could resemble that. You can't not think that that's "futuristic".
Many types of equipment advance at rapid rates.

That one can very well be from 94' and look different than a 88' model.

Once again, muscle degeneration makes them slower than average kids.

Taking one down then the other would be easy. Not to mention they don't even know she has nades.
 

xepherthree

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Many types of equipment advance at rapid rates.

That one can very well be from 94' and look different than a 88' model.

Once again, muscle degeneration makes them slower than average kids.

Taking one down then the other would be easy. Not to mention they don't even know she has nades.
...
Really?
Its an ICE AXE
IT IS A STICK WITH A METAL TIP.

Made by me in paint.
And obviously if there muscles are that regenerated, they would've died climbing a mountain. >.>
 

xepherthree

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They split up far enough apart she can't hit both at the same time.
Even if she does get a fatal hit(unlikely due to how far apart they are, ICs can read where Peach is throwing grenades) thenthe other moves in close when peach can't bomb him/her. At close range peach is dead.
 

justaway12

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I seem to be going in a loop, I just had the same argument with Nova, she would only have to target one of them, if she kills one then she could focus on the other, they aren't that fast, besides, they are kids and like BFFs or Siblings or something, they should get in shock when one of them dies
 

justaway12

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lrn 2 not utoob comment, n00b
anywho, sure, ill do a two-fer:

peach vs ic's is still on the table.

Boozer has short burst of fire, and is 10ft, in the area of 2 tons

ganon is around 7ft



also, next round we may as well have a panel seeing as we got a chat group
I wouldn't discuss if it won't lead to anything, well, for this long anyway >.>
 

xepherthree

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I seem to be going in a loop, I just had the same argument with Nova, she would only have to target one of them, if she kills one then she could focus on the other, they aren't that fast, besides, they are kids and like BFFs or Siblings or something, they should get in shock when one of them dies
You're right about that. That could happen if she hits one of them.
But also, there's a chance that seeing their BFF/sibling die could put them into a rage in which they exerted all their energy into avenging their partner. I think it was Zard vs. DK in that if a situation called for it the human body could go beyond its limits. And it could happen, too. Even w/o the blind rage if the remaining IC dealt with it they would be close to get within an area where peach couldn't nade them. In which peach gets ice axe'd in the face.
 

UncleSam

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You're right about that. That could happen if she hits one of them.
But also, there's a chance that seeing their BFF/sibling die could put them into a rage in which they exerted all their energy into avenging their partner. I think it was Zard vs. DK in that if a situation called for it the human body could go beyond its limits. And it could happen, too. Even w/o the blind rage if the remaining IC dealt with it they would be close to get within an area where peach couldn't nade them. In which peach gets ice axe'd in the face.
we went into this when we did TL vs. IC's the other sibling would freak out and try to get the other one out of there.
or just go into shock.
 

justaway12

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How would they position themselves in an area where she couldn't nade them? They are kids, I'm not saying kids are dumb, but they wouldn't know about them that much about grenades/bombs, besides, the ICs have stubby legs, I don't really think they could run fast enough to avoid the bombs
 

REL38

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Then it would have been stated in the OP.


JOE said it was, look through the posts right at the beginning of the Bowser, Ganon MU.

It's there so . . . . there :p



You're right about that. That could happen if she hits one of them.
But also, there's a chance that seeing their BFF/sibling die could put them into a rage in which they exerted all their energy into avenging their partner. I think it was Zard vs. DK in that if a situation called for it the human body could go beyond its limits. And it could happen, too. Even w/o the blind rage if the remaining IC dealt with it they would be close to get within an area where peach couldn't nade them. In which peach gets ice axe'd in the face.
You forget these are pre-pubecent kids we're talking about. Pre-teens don't have the mental stability nor the hormones to go into something like Rage Kill Mode.

They're still young so it's much more likely the other would flee or check on the other.
If these were adults or even older teens, then yeah, but not 10-12 year olds.

That's expecting too much from them.

Also, the blast of the first nade killing Popo would seriously frighten Nana. She's never seen an explosion like that and would be frightened or startled, causing her to back away or stop advancing.


we went into this when we did TL vs. IC's the other sibling would freak out and try to get the other one out of there.
or just go into shock.
Don't bring that up, or we'll go back into the "morality/survival instinct mega death trap" arguement again!
 

JOE!

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so, any progress on peach vs ICs so i can close it?

(sum it up for me :p)



Also, as for bowser: he would have tough(er) scales due to not being able to rtreat into a shell.

He would mostlikley move on all fours, but have an ability to stand to swipe/attack/etc.

also...seeing as he is in the ares of the TEENS time sbigger than Ganon, as well as having more reliable ways of finishing him.... >_>
 

Ray_Kalm

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so, any progress on peach vs ICs so i can close it?

(sum it up for me :p)



Also, as for bowser: he would have tough(er) scales due to not being able to rtreat into a shell.

He would mostlikley move on all fours, but have an ability to stand to swipe/attack/etc.

also...seeing as he is in the ares of the TEENS time sbigger than Ganon, as well as having more reliable ways of finishing him.... >_>
I still don't see how someone around 8000 lb and only 10 feet tall (10 feet was it?) could be able to move around.
 
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