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Super Smash Bros. Infinite Beyond

Which option should we go with? I can't operate both the wikia and front page anymore.


  • Total voters
    5
  • Poll closed .

Infinity Sorcerer

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While I was hopping for Skull Kid and Lyn, I gues this is the result of both franchises having newer games that made another bomb that people may take interest on it, my personal elections are Euden and Saki for mere design, but I'm fine with anyone.
 

Venus of the Desert Bloom

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Alright everyone, here are the results of voting for our newcomer. We had 29 total votes! I decided to do the Mii Costume later due to.... issues...


Name2 Points1 PointTotal
Saki6 (12)517
Euden4 (8)614
Ayumi6 (12)517
Chibi Robo4 (8)412

Click here to find the results...

We have a tie between Ayumi and Saki! Due to the lack of roster spots and the nature of our Assist Trophy Newcomer job, we will have to do a tie breaker! I will be putting up a poll at the top of the thread in a little bit.
 
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KneeOfJustice99

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Honestly, both characters are really cool - I'm personally going with Ayumi given she was planned for Melee and that I think her moveset could be really interesting, but I think Saki would be just as cool and I'd be hella pleased to see either!

Also, there was the international release of the Famicom Detective Club duology a couple years back... just a thought?
 
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GolisoPower

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This is gonna be a tough one. On the one hand Ayumi is a cool pick because you could combine some visual novel elements with what Phoenix can do, and she was a Melee consideration.

On the other hand, Saki has had a bigger presence than Ayumi and his game's release on NSO does wonders for him.
 

Venus of the Desert Bloom

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Here are the results of the Mii Costume voting!

Name5 Points4 Points3 Points2 Points1 PointTotal
Elephant Mii Brawler2 (10)2 (8)1 (3)1 (2)528
Lobster Mii Brawler1 (5)3 (12)1 (3)4 (8)129
Zebra Mii Brawler2 (10)1 (4)00014
Rhinoceros Beetle Mii Swordfighter2 (10)02 (6)0218
Pistol Shrimp Mii Brawler2 (10)2 (8)3 (9)2 (4)132
Tanuki Mii Brawler01 (4)3 (9)3 (6)120
Penguin Mii Brawler3 (15)3 (12)2 (6)2 (4)239
Wasp Mii Gunner03 (12)2 (6)1 (2)323
Tiger Mii Brawler1 (5)1 (4)1 (3)0012
Kangaroo Mii Brawler2 (10)2 (8)3 (9)5 (10)230
Capybara Mii Brawler3 (15)01 (3)1 (2)121

We are accepting the top two submissions. The Penguin Mii Brawler (39) and Pistol Shrimp (32) will be included as Mii Costumes.
 

TheMicRula

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Here are the results of the Mii Costume voting!

Name5 Points4 Points3 Points2 Points1 PointTotal
Elephant Mii Brawler2 (10)2 (8)1 (3)1 (2)528
Lobster Mii Brawler1 (5)3 (12)1 (3)4 (8)129
Zebra Mii Brawler2 (10)1 (4)00014
Rhinoceros Beetle Mii Swordfighter2 (10)02 (6)0218
Pistol Shrimp Mii Brawler2 (10)2 (8)3 (9)2 (4)132
Tanuki Mii Brawler01 (4)3 (9)3 (6)120
Penguin Mii Brawler3 (15)3 (12)2 (6)2 (4)239
Wasp Mii Gunner03 (12)2 (6)1 (2)323
Tiger Mii Brawler1 (5)1 (4)1 (3)0012
Kangaroo Mii Brawler2 (10)2 (8)3 (9)5 (10)230
Capybara Mii Brawler3 (15)01 (3)1 (2)121

We are accepting the top two submissions. The Penguin Mii Brawler (39) and Pistol Shrimp (32) will be included as Mii Costumes.
Huge day for Pingu mains
 

Mushroomguy12

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That elephant costume's definitely going to win!

Here are the results of the Mii Costume voting!

Name5 Points4 Points3 Points2 Points1 PointTotal
Elephant Mii Brawler2 (10)2 (8)1 (3)1 (2)528
Lobster Mii Brawler1 (5)3 (12)1 (3)4 (8)129
Zebra Mii Brawler2 (10)1 (4)00014
Rhinoceros Beetle Mii Swordfighter2 (10)02 (6)0218
Pistol Shrimp Mii Brawler2 (10)2 (8)3 (9)2 (4)132
Tanuki Mii Brawler01 (4)3 (9)3 (6)120
Penguin Mii Brawler3 (15)3 (12)2 (6)2 (4)239
Wasp Mii Gunner03 (12)2 (6)1 (2)323
Tiger Mii Brawler1 (5)1 (4)1 (3)0012
Kangaroo Mii Brawler2 (10)2 (8)3 (9)5 (10)230
Capybara Mii Brawler3 (15)01 (3)1 (2)121

We are accepting the top two submissions. The Penguin Mii Brawler (39) and Pistol Shrimp (32) will be included as Mii Costumes.

Well then.
 

Venus of the Desert Bloom

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Alright everyone, what would have been possibly a short voting period transformed into a weekend-long one! We first voted between a wide number of characters to include from our list of available Assist Trophies and those boiled down between Saki, Euden, Ayumi, and Chibi Robo. From there, it was finally narrowed down due to a tie between Saki and Ayumi. We have no amassed 17 total votes with a majority win for one character.

Click here to review who was the winner...
1692097788013.png


saki.png

With nearly ten more votes than Ayumi, Saki from Sin & Punishment nabs the win! Saki will be finally promoted from Assist Trophy to full-on fighter. While Master Hand is technically the "first fighter", he will be only available to those who preorder the game and register it. He will be made available for everyone at a later day. Therefore, technically, Saki will be our first fighter to be fully featured.

We will be conducting a new job in the next few hours.
 

Venus of the Desert Bloom

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Alright everyone, with Saki winning the Assist Trophy Promotion to Newcomer Voting, we will proceed forward with working on gameplay mechanics and his moveset!

Crafting Saki

Saki comes from a rail-shooter game called Sin & Punishment which debuted back on the Nintendo 64. He wasn't the only protagonist as the series saw a revitalization following Super Smash Bros. Brawl in the form of Star Successor which featured his son, Isa Jo. Saki wields both a gun and a sword known as a gunblade which should be featured in his moveset submissions. In terms of gameplay,

Saki is a nimble fighter who bears some semblance to Zero Suir Samus but without her superior aerial mobility. Saki excels in pressuring opponents from afar and then closing into their comfort zone and attacking with quick slashes and swipes. That being said, Saki crumbles underneath strong attacks and can easily be KO'd at lower percentages than most characters thanks to his lower weight and poor air speed.
In addition, I think it would be perfectly fine to include content from Star Successor given Saki's and Isa's relationship.

We will begin submitting moves for Saki which includes the following:

Normals
  • Jab​
  • Dash​
  • Ftilt​
  • Utilt​
  • DTilt​
  • FSmash​
  • USmash​
  • DSmash​
  • NAir​
  • FAir​
  • BAir​
  • UAir​
  • DAir​
  • Grab​
  • Pummel​
  • FThrow​
  • BThrow​
  • UThrow​
  • DThrow​
  • Floor Attack​
Specials
  • Neutral Special​
  • Side Special​
  • Up Special​
  • Down Special​
Now, if you have any ideas for a mechanic, I am open to suggestions. Saki does have two types of Gun Modes: Lock-On which is like a targeted auto fighter and then Manual which requires maneuvering the gun for more powerful but harder-to-place shots.

To view more about Saki and Sin & Punishment, please go to the Nintendo wiki page. Funny enough, the Sin & Punishment wikia doesn't have much information. Smash Bros. Crusade also included Saki as a playable character.

Here is also some information for us to envision Saki as playable



Longplay of Sin & Punishment

Longplay of Star Successor
 

darkvortex

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Sakurai is also a fan iirc. Part of why they included him and it was also clearly an influence on uprising
 

GolisoPower

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Neutral Special: Dolphin Blast:
Saki enters a stance where a reticle will appear on-screen and can be controlled for as long as the player holds the B Button. Upon release, Saki will aim at the reticle and fire at its location with with a barrage of lasers, which retain the properties of Fox's Blaster. At minimum, Saki will fire 3 shots, but the player can make him move while shooting and continue the barrage for a maximum of 3 seconds by mashing B. The longer you fire the longer the endlag for the attack.
 

Venus of the Desert Bloom

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Neutral Special: Dolphin Blast:
Saki enters a stance where a reticle will appear on-screen and can be controlled for as long as the player holds the B Button. Upon release, Saki will aim at the reticle and fire at its location with with a barrage of lasers, which retain the properties of Fox's Blaster. At minimum, Saki will fire 3 shots, but the player can make him move while shooting and continue the barrage for a maximum of 3 seconds by mashing B. The longer you fire the longer the endlag for the attack.
I like this but a couple of questions:

1) How are the reticle movement and character movement separated? It says you can control the reticle by holding B so I assume you can move the reticle up and down. However, it also says you can move the character while what I would assume during the reticle is active. How do you separate the two? The two mechanics will easily clash (aiming the reticle up and down or back or front VS being able to run and jump.)


Up Special: Hover Boots
Taken from his son Isa, it functions similarly to ROB's Up Special but with more control and upwards bursts making it more effective but slightly harder to control.

Final Smash: Ruffian Assault

Taken from the first boss battle, Saki jumps into the air; catching anyone who is within a radius around him. The cinematic finds themselves within a whirlpool of blood red energy as Saki in his massive Ruffian form rises up from the congealed mass. Saki performs a series of slashes using his arm blades before unleashing a volley of energy particles which causes the whirlpool (and opponent) to explode.
 

TheMicRula

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I like this but a couple of questions:

1) How are the reticle movement and character movement separated? It says you can control the reticle by holding B so I assume you can move the reticle up and down. However, it also says you can move the character while what I would assume during the reticle is active. How do you separate the two? The two mechanics will easily clash (aiming the reticle up and down or back or front VS being able to run and jump.)


Up Special: Hover Boots
Taken from his son Isa, it functions similarly to ROB's Up Special but with more control and upwards bursts making it more effective but slightly harder to control.

Final Smash: Ruffian Assault

Taken from the first boss battle, Saki jumps into the air; catching anyone who is within a radius around him. The cinematic finds themselves within a whirlpool of blood red energy as Saki in his massive Ruffian form rises up from the congealed mass. Saki performs a series of slashes using his arm blades before unleashing a volley of energy particles which causes the whirlpool (and opponent) to explode.
Personally, I also think the idea of Saki's Final Smash being similar to Giga Bowser, except you get to repeatedly shoot down your opponents as Ruffian-Saki would also be cool as all hell.
 
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Venus of the Desert Bloom

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Personally, I also think the idea of Saki's Final Smash being similar to Giga Bowser, except you get to repeatedly shoot down your opponents as Ruffian-Saki would also be cool as all hell.
It would be but we are still keeping in line with how Ultimate did Final Smashes by making them quick so "install" Final Smashes aren't really a thing.
 

GolisoPower

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1) How are the reticle movement and character movement separated? It says you can control the reticle by holding B so I assume you can move the reticle up and down. However, it also says you can move the character while what I would assume during the reticle is active. How do you separate the two? The two mechanics will easily clash (aiming the reticle up and down or back or front VS being able to run and jump.)
Basically, once you release the B the reticle stops moving and locks on, then you can move and fire. So say you're on Battlefield. To put it simply:
  1. Activate Neutral B
  2. Move the Reticle above the topmost platform.
  3. Release B.
  4. Saki begins a move-and-shoot state similar to Banjo & Kazooie.
  5. (OPTIONAL) Mash B to extend the firing period.
 
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KneeOfJustice99

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Before I start, feel free to tell me if I'm doing this wrong - I've not really done a moveset submission for a character before now on the Infinite thread, and I've noted that a lot of other people here have as of yet only been submitting individual moves - so if this is a taboo, I deeply apologise in advance. However, here's my thought process.

Stats 'n Stuff
Firstly, I think it'd be pertinent to observe Saki's stats - it'll be a good way to get a feel for everything surrounding them. With that in mind, I'll steal this basic layout from Delthezin:

Stats:
Weight: 78, equivalent to that of Sheik and 84th heaviest overall - a clear lightweight.
Walk Speed: 1.42, equivalent to that of Mythra and 8th fastest overall. Good for positioning.
Initial Dash: 2.45, again equivalent to that of Mythra, and tied for fastest overall, making it good for burst.
Run Speed: 2.31, equivalent to that of Zero Suit Samus and 7th fastest overall.
Air Speed: 1.11, equivalent to that of Fox and 33rd fastest overall.
Fall Speed: 1.75, equivalent to that of Sheik and Diddy Kong, and 24th/25th fastest overall.

Ratings:
Size: 6/10.
Frame Data: 7/10.
Damage: 4/10.
Combos: 6/10.
K.O. Power: 5.5/10.
Recovery: 3.5/10.

Furthermore, Saki has the ability to wall-jump - but not to crawl.

As you can see, this paints a picture that meets the suggestion originally made - a fast-paced lightweight with surprisingly decent jump height, coupled with a mix of quick attacks up-close and pressure tools from afar - though these good points are offset by lower weight and air speed. I also think it'd be a nice alternate take on the genre of the rail shooter compared to Fox, with Saki's moveset moreso actively rewarding a mix of zoning and pressure whilst being mindful of your surroundings. Unlike more full-on zoners, however - like Samus or Mega Man - Saki's use of projectiles shouldn't in itself be a K.O. tool, but should be a method of putting pressure on an opponent and allowing for his close-up attacks to really hit hard. If anything, I'd say he's a mix-up character overall.

Prominent Attacks
Admittedly, I won't cover all of his attacks in detail - for the most part, they'd rely on either basic kicks or slashes with the Dolphin Gun. However, a few attacks felt like they'd be important to delve into.

Side Smash: Overhead Dolphin Slash.
A powerful slash with the Dolphin Gun's blade, which moves from close to Saki's head down to his feet - before being able to be cancelled into a second, slightly less powerful attack that has him slash forward in front of him with significantly less vertical coverage. Notably, there's a sweet spot that allows either of these attacks to reflect projectiles that hit it, just like in the original game (and somewhat comparable to Ness's Side Smash.) It's a little counterintuitive, because the sweet spot is on the gun itself rather than the blade - but with a little bit of getting used to, you'll get the hang of it.

Overhead Dolphin Slash is arguably one of Saki's most powerful moves - working decently well as a kill move, but with the necessary charge making it a little difficult to use in his typical mix-up gameplay... even if the second hitbox lets you potentially draw unsuspecting opponents close for a surprise attack. I'd also like to note that I considered giving him a reflector down special, but it didn't feel like it was keeping to the spirit of the original game - where reflecting a projectile required more skill than just reading it - so I introduced it here instead!

Neutral Special: Manual Shot.
Tapping the special button allows Saki to fire a shot straight in front of him, which isn't aimed in any way. It functions similarly to Fox's neutral special in that it's a low-powered projectile that deals no knockback - though Saki's has some differences. Firstly, Saki's Manual Shot doesn't diminish in attack power with distance - having a flat 2.2% damage rate regardless of where you fire it from. It also has a slightly faster rate of fire than Fox's if you repeatedly tap the button. This form of the neutral special is pretty unique in that it's low in lag, allowing it to be used as a decent walling tool for pressure. Not only this - but if you hold down whilst repeatedly tapping neutral special in the air, you'll be able to shoot downward at a 45 degree angle. Simply stop tapping the special button, and you'll be able to use your down special should you wish to.

I should also note that the move is chargeable, though this charge is really quick - only around 30 frames. Holding down the special button until a visual flash from the muzzle acts as an indicator allows you to fire a version of the move with very slightly increased power (around 4.2%) as well as making an opponent flinch, though this comes at the cost of being a little laggier overall, and not being as easy to quickly fire off (even though it does fire automatically when at full charge.) Again, if airborne and holding down after starting the charge, you can fire downward at a 45 degree angle. This specific function of the attack is in reference to the ability to charge your projectile attacks in Star Successor, though keeping Saki feeling quick and adaptable overall and not getting in the way.

Side Special: Lock-On Shot.
Inputting side special has Saki ready the Dolphin Gun in front of him. When in this state, the closest opponent within a certain range in front of him (around half of Battlefield) gets a reticule over them, and Saki fires a single projectile at them. The Lock-On Shot is a little more powerful than his uncharged Manual Shot due to its more deliberate nature, dealing 3.2% damage and making an opponent flinch. However, the animation itself is a little slower, and it's not as spammable due to needing to lock onto an opponent each time it's used. Not only this, but it has a very slight recoil when used whilst airborne - as well as looking very slightly different. I should note that the range itself has similarities to Palutena's Autoreticule in that it's more akin to a "cone" outward, preventing him from simply firing at opponents over him - though, the cone is a little wider and allows for wider coverage as a result.

Up Special: Dolphin Burst.
Based loosely on Isa Jo's hover-backpack in Star Successor, Saki instead has a small burst of energy from the Dolphin Gun which allows him to move upward at a diagonal angle. During this angle, Saki draws his Dolphin Gun and uses the blade function to multi-hit opponents that it contacts, dragging them along before a final (optional) slash at the end can knock them away - working a little like Shulk's Air Slash in that you can activate it with another tap of the special button. You can influence your direction a little by holding forward-up for more horizontal but less vertical motion, or backward-up for more vertical but less horizontal motion - though, be careful, as using this move will leave you helpless until you either touch the ground, get hit, or get killed. Compared to some other moves out there, its range isn't the best in the world - but it's functional as Saki's only real recovery option, and can work as a kill move in certain circumstances.

Down Special: Evasive Manouvres.
This move is a little odd at first glance, because it can have one of multiple effects depending on the context of where it's used. Put simply, it works similarly to your traditional counter move - though is designed to better-reflect how this would have worked in Sin and Punishment. When inputted on its own, Saki will apparently spot-dodge, albeit with his Dolphin Gun drawn. Then, right after spot-dodging, he'll quickly fire out a charged Manual Shot with significantly lower starting lag than it'd otherwise have, to the point where it's likely to be safe on most attacks.

You can also hold down-back to dodge-roll backward before cancelling into the shot - or hold down-forward to dodge-roll forward, turning you around if the closest opponent is now behind you, and then letting you fire. In the air, you'll spot-dodge no matter what - sorry, no directional air-dodge here. Note, however - repeatedly using the move will increase its startlag over time, similarly to how actual dodges work (and to prevent it from becoming a method of obliterating the usefulness of neutral special altogether.) The move's unique in that, functionally speaking, it works somewhat like a fusion between your traditional counter and a dodge - allowing you to quickly react to an opponent as opposed to just having an automatic attack right afterward. Just like in the original game, seeing an opening means you need to take the chance to escape punishment and act of your own accord - it's the difference between life and death.

In Closing
I think the moves and stats I've suggested here would work well to keep to the original vision that the submitted had in mind, whilst innovating on other concepts that've floated around the internet for some time. Admittedly though, I kind of like Venus's proposal for a Final Smash, so I see no need to change that. My general focus is on Saki feeling nimble when grounded, but a little out of his element in the air - having access to effective, but not broken, ranged tools that are designed to primarily facilitate him getting in as opposed to just walling an opponent out with an impassable barrier of instant death. Again though - feel free to let me know if I've missed the point here.
 
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Venus of the Desert Bloom

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Before I start, feel free to tell me if I'm doing this wrong - I've not really done a moveset submission for a character before now on the Infinite thread, and I've noted that a lot of other people here have as of yet only been submitting individual moves - so if this is a taboo, I deeply apologise in advance. However, here's my thought process.

Stats 'n Stuff
Firstly, I think it'd be pertinent to observe Saki's stats - it'll be a good way to get a feel for everything surrounding them. With that in mind, I'll steal this basic layout from Delthezin:

Stats:
Weight: 78, equivalent to that of Sheik and 84th heaviest overall - a clear lightweight.
Walk Speed: 1.42, equivalent to that of Mythra and 8th fastest overall. Good for positioning.
Initial Dash: 2.45, again equivalent to that of Mythra, and tied for fastest overall, making it good for burst.
Run Speed: 2.31, equivalent to that of Zero Suit Samus and 7th fastest overall.
Air Speed: 1.11, equivalent to that of Fox and 33rd fastest overall.
Fall Speed: 1.75, equivalent to that of Sheik and Diddy Kong, and 24th/25th fastest overall.

Ratings:
Size: 6/10.
Frame Data: 7/10.
Damage: 4/10.
Combos: 6/10.
K.O. Power: 5.5/10.
Recovery: 3.5/10.

Furthermore, Saki has the ability to wall-jump - but not to crawl.

As you can see, this paints a picture that meets the suggestion originally made - a fast-paced lightweight with surprisingly decent jump height, coupled with a mix of quick attacks up-close and pressure tools from afar - though these good points are offset by lower weight and air speed. I also think it'd be a nice alternate take on the genre of the rail shooter compared to Fox, with Saki's moveset moreso actively rewarding a mix of zoning and pressure whilst being mindful of your surroundings. Unlike more full-on zoners, however - like Samus or Mega Man - Saki's use of projectiles shouldn't in itself be a K.O. tool, but should be a method of putting pressure on an opponent and allowing for his close-up attacks to really hit hard. If anything, I'd say he's a mix-up character overall.

Prominent Attacks
Admittedly, I won't cover all of his attacks in detail - for the most part, they'd rely on either basic kicks or slashes with the Dolphin Gun. However, a few attacks felt like they'd be important to delve into.

Side Smash: Overhead Dolphin Slash.
A powerful slash with the Dolphin Gun's blade, which moves from close to Saki's head down to his feet - before being able to be cancelled into a second, slightly less powerful attack that has him slash forward in front of him with significantly less vertical coverage. Notably, there's a sweet spot that allows either of these attacks to reflect projectiles that hit it, just like in the original game (and somewhat comparable to Ness's Side Smash.) It's a little counterintuitive, because the sweet spot is on the gun itself rather than the blade - but with a little bit of getting used to, you'll get the hang of it.

Overhead Dolphin Slash is arguably one of Saki's most powerful moves - working decently well as a kill move, but with the necessary charge making it a little difficult to use in his typical mix-up gameplay... even if the second hitbox lets you potentially draw unsuspecting opponents close for a surprise attack. I'd also like to note that I considered giving him a reflector down special, but it didn't feel like it was keeping to the spirit of the original game - where reflecting a projectile required more skill than just reading it - so I introduced it here instead!

Neutral Special: Manual Shot.
Tapping the special button allows Saki to fire a shot straight in front of him, which isn't aimed in any way. It functions similarly to Fox's neutral special in that it's a low-powered projectile that deals no knockback - though Saki's has some differences. Firstly, Saki's Manual Shot doesn't diminish in attack power with distance - having a flat 2.2% damage rate regardless of where you fire it from. It also has a slightly faster rate of fire than Fox's if you repeatedly tap the button. This form of the neutral special is pretty unique in that it's low in lag, allowing it to be used as a decent walling tool for pressure. Not only this - but if you hold down whilst repeatedly tapping neutral special in the air, you'll be able to shoot downward at a 45 degree angle. Simply stop tapping the special button, and you'll be able to use your down special should you wish to.

I should also note that the move is chargeable, though this charge is really quick - only around 30 frames. Holding down the special button until a visual flash from the muzzle acts as an indicator allows you to fire a version of the move with very slightly increased power (around 4.2%) as well as making an opponent flinch, though this comes at the cost of being a little laggier overall, and not being as easy to quickly fire off (even though it does fire automatically when at full charge.) Again, if airborne and holding down after starting the charge, you can fire downward at a 45 degree angle. This specific function of the attack is in reference to the ability to charge your projectile attacks in Star Successor, though keeping Saki feeling quick and adaptable overall and not getting in the way.

Side Special: Lock-On Shot.
Inputting side special has Saki ready the Dolphin Gun in front of him. When in this state, the closest opponent within a certain range in front of him (around half of Battlefield) gets a reticule over them, and Saki fires a single projectile at them. The Lock-On Shot is a little more powerful than his uncharged Manual Shot due to its more deliberate nature, dealing 3.2% damage and making an opponent flinch. However, the animation itself is a little slower, and it's not as spammable due to needing to lock onto an opponent each time it's used. Not only this, but it has a very slight recoil when used whilst airborne - as well as looking very slightly different. I should note that the range itself has similarities to Palutena's Autoreticule in that it's more akin to a "cone" outward, preventing him from simply firing at opponents over him - though, the cone is a little wider and allows for wider coverage as a result.

Up Special: Dolphin Burst.
Based loosely on Isa Jo's hover-backpack in Star Successor, Saki instead has a small burst of energy from the Dolphin Gun which allows him to move upward at a diagonal angle. During this angle, Saki draws his Dolphin Gun and uses the blade function to multi-hit opponents that it contacts, dragging them along before a final (optional) slash at the end can knock them away - working a little like Shulk's Air Slash in that you can activate it with another tap of the special button. You can influence your direction a little by holding forward-up for more horizontal but less vertical motion, or backward-up for more vertical but less horizontal motion - though, be careful, as using this move will leave you helpless until you either touch the ground, get hit, or get killed. Compared to some other moves out there, its range isn't the best in the world - but it's functional as Saki's only real recovery option, and can work as a kill move in certain circumstances.

Down Special: Evasive Manouvres.
This move is a little odd at first glance, because it can have one of multiple effects depending on the context of where it's used. Put simply, it works similarly to your traditional counter move - though is designed to better-reflect how this would have worked in Sin and Punishment. When inputted on its own, Saki will apparently spot-dodge, albeit with his Dolphin Gun drawn. Then, right after spot-dodging, he'll quickly fire out a charged Manual Shot with significantly lower starting lag than it'd otherwise have, to the point where it's likely to be safe on most attacks.

You can also hold down-back to dodge-roll backward before cancelling into the shot - or hold down-forward to dodge-roll forward, turning you around if the closest opponent is now behind you, and then letting you fire. In the air, you'll spot-dodge no matter what - sorry, no directional air-dodge here. Note, however - repeatedly using the move will increase its startlag over time, similarly to how actual dodges work (and to prevent it from becoming a method of obliterating the usefulness of neutral special altogether.) The move's unique in that, functionally speaking, it works somewhat like a fusion between your traditional counter and a dodge - allowing you to quickly react to an opponent as opposed to just having an automatic attack right afterward. Just like in the original game, seeing an opening means you need to take the chance to escape punishment and act of your own accord - it's the difference between life and death.

In Closing
I think the moves and stats I've suggested here would work well to keep to the original vision that the submitted had in mind, whilst innovating on other concepts that've floated around the internet for some time. Admittedly though, I kind of like Venus's proposal for a Final Smash, so I see no need to change that. My general focus is on Saki feeling nimble when grounded, but a little out of his element in the air - having access to effective, but not broken, ranged tools that are designed to primarily facilitate him getting in as opposed to just walling an opponent out with an impassable barrier of instant death. Again though - feel free to let me know if I've missed the point here.
Typically, what we do is submit individual moves and then piece them to gether so we all have a say in the creation of the moveset. We used to do it the way above and it was good but the hard work and dedication put forth by people were never valued so the quality began to slip. This is why we submit what we can and I fill in the blanks. That being said, when its a character with a VERY defined mechanic or gimmick that requires cohesiveness within the entire moveset, then we go the above route.

I will say I really like what I am reading and probably will combine portions of your write up for Saki as well as Goliso's.
 

KneeOfJustice99

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 29, 2018
Messages
2,239
Location
the building from smash mouth's astro lounge
Typically, what we do is submit individual moves and then piece them to gether so we all have a say in the creation of the moveset. We used to do it the way above and it was good but the hard work and dedication put forth by people were never valued so the quality began to slip. This is why we submit what we can and I fill in the blanks. That being said, when its a character with a VERY defined mechanic or gimmick that requires cohesiveness within the entire moveset, then we go the above route.

I will say I really like what I am reading and probably will combine portions of your write up for Saki as well as Goliso's.
In that case - I apologise for the misunderstanding, but thank you ever so much for the feedback! I hope I haven't stepped on y'all's toes too much here. :)
 

TheMicRula

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 22, 2023
Messages
128
Are we also allowed to post ideas for Saki's alts or Sin & Punishment spirits?
 

chocolatejr9

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 30, 2018
Messages
8,408
Say, I just realized... we added some Twitter stuff back in the base game. Are we gonna have to update it not that they're burning to the gro-AHEM, I MEAN rebranding and changing so much?
 
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