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Stuff About Puff

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idea

Smash Master
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when you hit sheik's shield, don't try to float past it. she'll just hit you. float back away to safety instead. (another thing kirbykaze told me)

there's always the isai advice...don't get hit.

and you're...not crouching right. i don't really know how to explain it. it's probably related to the 'don't get hit' thing.
 

AnDaLe

Smash Champion
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NANI!? don't get hit is prolly the most obvious advice ever! >_< can i get some more decent advice plz.
 

idea

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well there was also the rest of my post :bee:

don't get hit by needles is perhaps the more important thing. sheik has nothing reliable on jiggs so she'll often either rack up damage with needles or use them

a lot of the time, though, it's actually pretty helpful to use general descriptions in this game, since the same specifics don't always work for everyone but the general concepts do. like "don't get hit". what that really means (at least to me) is "focus all your mental energy on not getting hit by the other character, rather than on trying to hit them". maybe not the best advice if you're fox, but for pretty much everyone else, as long as you don't let yourself get hit at all everything else tends to work itself out. the exception would be taking a little damage to deal more in return.

so in this matchup...what is dangerous about sheik? fair, bair, needles, grab...that's most of it really, dsmash isn't so scary, i've even grabbed out of it before. and upsmash tends to only come out as a rest punish. and uptilt...well, that's your own fault for being directly above sheik.

so...
fair: spacing beats it. it comes out fast so watch out for this especially, but you can float around with your longer-reaching aerials to get past it. its main strength is just its speed in this matchup.

bair: more spacing. this is safer for sheik since it's longer and stuff, so it's harder to outspace than fair, but you can CC it into stuff and shieldgrab it if they're a bit too close. or if it hits your shield high, which can happen since it's a sex kick sort of move and the sheik will want to leave the hitbox out for a while, then you can get in some aerials out of shield.

needles: nothing you can do there =/ just don't be in range of them. standing needles aren't so bad since you can float over them or crouch under them, they really just slow down the game but they don't lead into anything worse. the real dangerous ones are the autocanceled needles. she can actually grab you with those. try to avoid those entirely by staying out of their diagonal range altogether. this involves staying farther away from sheik a lot of the time than you might like...alternatively you can be better than the sheik and be okay with approaching her more often, but in my region i don't have that option =3 oh, and, if you do get hit by them, might as well hold down. if the sheik misses a grab, rest, fsmash, grab yourself (they're probably gonna feel scared and shield afterward).

also you can rest her out of:
- missed grab (crouch)
- jab (CC)
- ftilt (CC)
- dtilt probably (CC)
- dair (out of shield; or just upair through it)
- fair maybe (CC)
- bair (CC)
- misspaced smashes probably (out of shield)
- aerials used too early in general

any of the CC rests could also be replaced by an fsmash. so that's part of the reason you should crouch a lot with sheik...same as with other characters...to get free hits in exchange for a smaller amount of damage.

i think it's best to approach every matchup philosophically =) what is hard about this character? what can i do that beats that? what can i do that i would hate if i were in their position?

lol, why did i get suckered into that. i'm tired of explaining this matchup <_< maybe we should contact someone and start editing the first post or something.
 

stackOverflow

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GOD **** IT. All right, i guess im gonna have to start giving advice on these boards because it seems no one else will. Ya, idea, i know your trying to help, but when i asked for help, ur first line was "yeah, you gotta hit them more." If you don't get hit and hit them more i definitely think you can beat mango idea :)

Ok, enough about other people's advice. I would much rather prefer to talk to you on skype because ill have to get surgery for my carpal tunnel if i type out everything that might help you (thats not me saying your bad, i no it kinda sounds like that but it just takes a lot of words to say a simple thing)

So at :08 i think the back air was a good idea, but once it failed you shoulda just grabbed edge because even if that fair hit the sheik would have got the edge before you. Then, right after i think you were reacting to her get on, but you just misspaced, but it was pretty close so that will just come with time. On the other hand if you were predicting then i would prefer a bair because it wouldn't be easily punished if you were wrong.

:29 This was the second time you decided to get of the ledge by dropledge jumping (whtever its called) and then jumping again and you get punished. You don't want to be above sheik ever because thats where she destroys you, u want to be under her. I would recommend just getting back on the stage because your opponent is giving you the room to do so and then go from there.

:33 the nair was really good, but then you decide to do nothing and fall with her so she can hit you, either do another move or zigzag away from her after the nair hits and reset the positions.

:37 All sheiks love to do their aerials of the ledge and i dont blame them. They'll either do a nair on or bair and regrab. In my experience its not worth challenging unless u space well and pound, but i recommend using some more rising pounds and then coming on high, using bairs to guard yourself and then landing on a platform to get jumps back. But remember you do like being above her so get down safely but soon.

:45 THAT REST WAS NASTY XD (i hate when people just bash you non stop when helping you)

:52 Coming on with a fair like that is really bad. I think you could tell after you did it was wrong because you had to sheild and then spot dodge. Always keep track of percentage, at 0 sheik wouldnt even move from that fair and then grab to ****, my favorite way to come back on is bair where you jump off the ledge turned around and do a bair, but just do whatever you think is safe.

1:11-1:19 You moved very well, nice and fluid.

1:25 Don't upthrow, it doesn't do anything. Downthrow is toooo good in this matchup. If they dont di you can just jump up and rest them, if in that case the sheik died to the left she would have landed on the platform and you can go for tech chase rest or just upair. If she di's to the right (which i would have predicted because of the problems with the two other ones then you might actually be able to hit her again (unlike upthrow)

1:27 I know its scary and its hard but go for the rest if they airdodge near you. I will sometimes not risk it against like fox but sheik cant punish at all so its not a big deal if you miss.

1:29 You got greedy, was a clear bair but you probably knew that.

1:30 If you notice, sheik likes to waveland > aerial so be ready for it, its always gonna happen so space and predict it.

2:02 The way you approach alot is doing a bair and landing in front of them. Occasionally this is good if you lcancel and crouch to bait a grab or something you can rest, but the beauty of jigglypuff is you dont have to put yourself in that situation. Instead of bairing right at him, which anyone can see coming, just land and then you can zigzag in and out with all your aerials so you hit their sheild but back up so you dont have to worry about being punished.

2:07 You did that fair on again, but we talked about that.

2:11 OH no. Go for uptilt or rest or grab(if you can grab a sheik in the middle of battlefield there's no where to run after dthrow!) that airdodge was waiting for you to punish. I realized recently wht happens when I play alot for a long time and play the same matchup and stuff, that I tend to do bairs in spots I shouldnt because I'm kinda playing on autopilot. Try to play more reactively and go for less aerials but make sure the ones you do hit.

The last stock you start to go for bad upsmashes. I understand the feeling when your down 3 to 1 stocks and you need them to die quick, but if you force things, you'll end up losing, just play safe (bair spam) and dont get nervous and you'll probably get to the last stock at like 170%. Then you just go for that rest because now they're getting worried but ur staying cool.

2:35 Always (someone correct me if im wrong) di dthrow forward and then get ready to di the fair, because you would much rather take the fair that the upair (unless its like kongo jungle or something). The sheik messed up and you should let him know because helping the person you play kinda sucks (epsecially if you already lose to them) but itll make you a better player.

2:40 Again your getting hit because your not zigzaging out after your aerial

2:44 Nice way to get on stage, you got this

2:49 When sheiks are close to the stage like in that situation, they'll usually do an aerial. Best bet is to grab ledge, go for your free invincible bair if i looks like it could work then make sure u have ledge so u can edgeguard. At that percent obv. not jump on rest but mabye bair or something.

Wow, this is why skype is pro... so in conclusion, your puff is really good. I wouldn't be too down about losing to that sheik because he was playing really well. Your spacing is only slightly worse than his i think, and if u listen to me about less aerials but focusing on hitting i think you can out space him. The main problem was WHERE WERE YOUR NAIRS. I love nair in this matchup. Zigzag in and out with nair, nair to crouch to bait, nair to rest (its the only high tier matchup i do it in because whts the risk). Sometimes for mindgames you dont have to bair them if they are sheilding just make it look like you are going to bair, then land next to them and uptilt, just a thing to pull out every once in a while.

No time for proofreading thats for noobs. Just ask me if you need help with my help.... um ya
 

idea

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The Matrix, good movie.

And I'm a sheik playing against jiggs, but basically I should pick up fox or just needle a lot right? Thanks for the advice though (although intended to help jiggs, I can still use it). Thanks :D
oh, uh. from the sheik side of things you have to be really campy. KK spends most of his time bairing, or needling on platforms vs. me. and a lot of sheik's staples, like grab and fair and dsmash, don't really work vs. puff...so it'd be pretty different from her other matchups. but it's still doable. it would probably be less work than to pick up a whole new character...and end up switching halfway through a set to someone you're not used to using under pressure, y'know?

so if you're not up for that then yeah, try fox. in theory it's a good matchup for fox, but jigglypuffs are really used to it cause everyone goes fox on us. so you have to know it too.

So when/if you guys counterpick fox on DL

and he starts camping the top platform

what do you do?

(besides not losing the first life)
i dunno, that's never happened to me as far as i recall. bair? i mean, when in doubt, bair =P

you could also try upairing from beneath him. that sounds relatively safe.

personally i would probably fling my body at him with fairs like always :bee:

well, I got ***** again today.

._.
*pat pat*
 

Keblerelf

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I counterpicked swift on DL and whenever i try to upair he would just jump away ;_;


I wish there were only 2 platforms on DL


w/e ill just get better
 

stackOverflow

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wht you do is you upair him, but if you notice hes jumping away, notice where he usually jumps to and upair after his jump. Ull get like 10 upairs on him and he'll never do that again. If he jumps in a way you cant get him thats fine too because you got him off the top platform, now chase him and get the lead.
 

stelzig

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I counterpicked swift on DL and whenever i try to upair he would just jump away ;_;


I wish there were only 2 platforms on DL


w/e ill just get better
You could always approach him from one of the other platforms instead of aiming right at him with Uair.
So yeah i agree with Bair.
 

stackOverflow

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i think its a common misconception that you should just pick up other characters for bad matchups. If we dont include mango, because hes always the exception to pretty much anything anyone says in smash, and look at the best players in the world, they mostly play one character... Amsah-sheik, Armada-peach, Hbox-jiggs, even mango is forced to go puff when playing the best people. Its more important to get good with your main in a matchup because it will help your all around game with that character.
 

AnDaLe

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thanks stackOverflow, though i haven't seen you around before, i'll trust your advice. =)

Jiggz finder? I wouldn't mind. Tbo, there really aren't that many jiggs players compared to Spacy/Falcon players, and i wouldn't mind trying to find them. but then, there aren't that many peach/ganon players either. Idk why im contradicting myself >_<, don't read this.

But yea, has anyone tried a double puff team and used the leap frog tactic lol? Its where one of the puffs duck, and another puff behind him SH nairs across the puff, then they switch roles, and the front one ducks and the back one SH nairs across the puff and repeats. Not sure if it works, just theory.
 

stackOverflow

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Ya, ive only been to 2 tournaments but im gonna start going and then ull see me ****** like mango and **** under the name Mahone. Im gonna change my smashname to Mahone right now actually
 

Rappster

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i think its a common misconception that you should just pick up other characters for bad matchups. If we dont include mango, because hes always the exception to pretty much anything anyone says in smash, and look at the best players in the world, they mostly play one character... Amsah-sheik, Armada-peach, Hbox-jiggs, even mango is forced to go puff when playing the best people. Its more important to get good with your main in a matchup because it will help your all around game with that character.
m2k plays marth, sheik and fox.
(and peach in teams)
 

idea

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m2k is a notable exception since he basically plays matchups instead of characters.

jigglypuff finder thread seems fine. ...did anyone use the old one? =P
 

FoxLisk

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Also M2K played almost exclusively Marth when he was, you know, beating the top players.
 

Ocean

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Slippi.gg
OCEAN#0
DrpeepeeF 2:59 pm
(2:59:29 PM): we're in a competitive fast paced game losing to a floating beach ball
 

KirbyKaze

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what's the time frame after that jab to get a rest?
17 or 16.

Jab hits on 5 - 6 (I assume 5 generally because that's the first frame it can hit). The jab ends on frame 17. So 12 in between the hit and the jab, plus 5 frames of jump startup, airborne on frame 6 and then assuming he Rests on the first actionable frame, that's 17 (or 16 if you hit on frame 6 of the jab instead).

There's no possible way it actually combos on a standing opponent but PP tried to shield and either roll, jump, or sidestep so then Hungrybox hit him out of the startup of whatever he did. My gut says jump or roll because those get invincibility later than Falco's sidestep (or not at all, in the case of jump).
 

Keblerelf

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Hi guys. Can you teach me how to play doubles?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSJVkgrW-Qw (1)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQzZv5J8aUM (2)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyVNsThKChg (3)

Things that I noticed at first glance:
1. i try to sheild grab way too much
2. A lot of the times I don't know what I'm doing. It's like I'm leaving my partner in a 2v1 situation
3. I am bad at saving my partner from getting edgeguarded/double teamed
4. I miss grab-> rest too much.
5. i miss edgeguards too much.
6. I get hit too much.

any critique would be appreciated~
 

stackOverflow

Smash Cadet
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It seems like you have a good understanding of what you did wrong, if you want specifics then i can talk to you on skype, cuz i almost died last time when i typed out all the stuff helping that other guy.
 

Mahone

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I'm this guy ^^^^^^^^^^^^

Oh my god!!!!! MINDGAMES. This is my new account name from hereon out, you can ask me for help and i will give it since it seems like Mango is gone and hbox likes bears. LETS DO THIS!!!
 

Archadia

Smash Rookie
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Hello, I just read about 100 pages of this thread and still have questions.

- How do I autocancel Nair, so I can crouch in front of their sheild and rest their grab ? And what is an autocancel in general ?
- Is it possible to L-cancel to crouch, without being sheildgrabbed ?
- Until which % can I u-throw to rest fast-fallers ? I found 65% for Fox, 85% for Falco, and I didn't manage on Falcon, because Jigglypuff seems to take forever to be able to jump after she throws him, but these results seems unrealistic.
- What is the safest way to come back on the stage ? Going for the ledge, or flying over my opponent to go to the middle of the stage ?

Thanks for your future answers.
 
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