Stuff About Puff

[AnDaLe]

alright, i just play 3 hours friendlies with some dude's fox... I purposely got grabbed just to work out this SDIing thing. I DIed the throw, then SDI the opposite way after the first hit. But i still got hit by the second. Did i not time this thing right or what?

 

[DtJ Jungle]

yes, you just aren't doing it right.

 

[Smasher89]

it's not impossible to get by, but again, that can't possibly be fun for the other person. whereas countering OTHER forms of camping can still be enjoyable. i mean, some form of defensive play is pretty much necessary with this game, but jigglypuff on the edge is just such an extreme version of that.

Sounds like another reason to me to use it, especially if after first match in a set, taking away momentum from the other player...

Dynamism-So basicly Jman/hungrybox/M2K for example never camps?, look again
Everyone camps, just look at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9h4mxrU8htE for an even easier to see version

I wonder if hungrybox have used this, because it seems alot more safe even from an "offensive pressure" perspective where bair from the ledge to ledgecancel for more pressure is too good(but unsafe against lasers)...

 

[Dynamism?]

pfffft
When it gets as close as Jman vs Amsah, and lots is on the line, and they're both freakin good, there's no reason for Amsah to NOT edgecamp when Jman is laser camping him with 1 stock less.
The losing player provoked that, so that's reasonable. They already dignified themselves as beast against each other anyway. It's all subconcious and sexy! :D

I didn't watch the link yet LOL

edit OH SHI I knew it HAHAHAHAHAH on the same page too good
That's a classic example good choice hahahah!
XD

 

[idea]

alright, i just play 3 hours friendlies with some dude's fox... I purposely got grabbed just to work out this SDIing thing. I DIed the throw, then SDI the opposite way after the first hit. But i still got hit by the second. Did i not time this thing right or what?

okay, i'll put it in controller terms just to be safe.

you are standing in the middle of FD (just for visualization purposes =P). fox runs at you from the left and grabs you.

fox upthrows you: you hold left on the joystick (to DI behind him).
fox jumps and upairs. as soon his first leg touches you, you jam the joystick to the right.

[*don't necessarily have to read this further explanation* once you went behind him, fox had to run at you from the right -- if you picture his upair, the first leg (weak) comes out 'closer' to him and the second one (strong) comes out 'farther'. so if he is running to the left, and jumps and upairs, the first hit is on his right side, and the second is on his left side. that's why you smash DI to the right. you are smash DIing the hit on his right side, to the right, so if done correctly you are as far as possible from the second hit.]

if it still doesn't make sense, find kirbykaze's smash DI guide, complete with ms paint drawings =P

 

[Ekoli]

Remember that time MaNg0 had to camp the ledge for a whole 8 minutes to win the match so that he could proceed to-

oh wait, no actually.

lol, ur stupid XD

but tryin to get jiggs is banned is dumb, nuff said.

If you're getting ***** by jiggs, its not cuz jiggs is too good, its cuz YOU SUCK
jk but rly? get good and no more *****ing

 

[AnDaLe]

tbo, all characters but low tiers should be banned for like a straight year. They need a chance... ya know? XD =P

 

[AnDaLe]

okay, i'll put it in controller terms just to be safe.

you are standing in the middle of FD (just for visualization purposes =P). fox runs at you from the left and grabs you.

fox upthrows you: you hold left on the joystick (to DI behind him).
fox jumps and upairs. as soon his first leg touches you, you jam the joystick to the right.

[*don't necessarily have to read this further explanation* once you went behind him, fox had to run at you from the right -- if you picture his upair, the first leg (weak) comes out 'closer' to him and the second one (strong) comes out 'farther'. so if he is running to the left, and jumps and upairs, the first hit is on his right side, and the second is on his left side. that's why you smash DI to the right. you are smash DIing the hit on his right side, to the right, so if done correctly you are as far as possible from the second hit.]

if it still doesn't make sense, find kirbykaze's smash DI guide, complete with ms paint drawings =P

yea i just realized what i did wrong. I didn't time the SDI right. I assumed that by "timing it" that i'd SDI likek a second before the 1st hit actually hit, kinda like teching... >.<, i'm stupid

 

[idea]

oh, lol.

yeah, outright banning jiggs would be dumb, she's not good enough. ban technical fox players first =P

or ban sheik vs. falcons.

 

[GSUB]

Falcon can **** sheik pretty hard.
All he needs is one grab.
Upthrow -> Regrab -> Upthrow -> SHFFL Upair -> Regrab -> Upthrow -> Upair(s) -> Knee

lol
feels so good to do.

 

[idea]

all sheik needs is one grab.

<___________<

 

[Smasher89]

haha, yea fox should probably be better, but in some way their strategy don´t win tourneys and seems countered by marth (atleast in america?!), we´ll have to test, wait and see if it works and gets unbeateable to the point only spamming fox blaster in the start on FD kinda handles it XD (tested roll to lightshield, doesn´t work since when puff falls down to the ledge she gets hit)

 

[GSUB]

haha, yea fox should probably be better, but in some way their strategy don´t win tourneys and seems countered by marth (atleast in america?!), we´ll have to test, wait and see if it works and gets unbeateable to the point only spamming fox blaster in the start on FD kinda handles it XD (tested roll to lightshield, doesn´t work since when puff falls down to the ledge she gets hit)

Hold R or L and C-Stick Up at the beginning of the match.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Falcon can **** sheik pretty hard.
All he needs is one grab.
Upthrow -> Regrab -> Upthrow -> SHFFL Upair -> Regrab -> Upthrow -> Upair(s) -> Knee

lol
feels so good to do.

D-throw > jab reset > dual-hit U-smash > Dair > U-tilt > more moves is really funny if you ever get it on Falcon

It also destroys their morale

 

[Smasher89]

Hold R or L and C-Stick Up at the beginning of the match.

That only works if the Fox starts the match by guessing(spamming lasers from start) that you´ll try to get the edge and not stopping to shoot lasers...

 

[Dynamism?]

There is way too much Jiggs activity in here... <_<

Spread the love around, we already have too many Jiggs.
XD

 

[AnDaLe]

Anyone willing to become a ganon main?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Im picking up puff right now, and i'm really enjoying it.

I got some questions about some specific matchups, though.

for one, what should i do when a falco hits my shield? with my other characters i can semi reliably get a shield grab if i sdi away to dodge the shine when i grab, but puff's grab range is pretty small so thats not very effective. I was watching dr.PP vs hbox from RoM2, and when PP hit hbox's shield he shielded as if she had a quick safe move from shield that would beat dair/nair->shine. Is there one that i've overlooked?

edit- nvm i see that its because of of how hbox was wding OoS to spaced bair to punish any moves past the first on his shield, which after a few times of punishing forced pp to shield.

vs falcon, how should i be handling his speed? especially on larger stages he has too much room to work with for me to get many hits in or to keep him locked down. he also has the speed to punish bair and his knee/bair priority is pretty good. Is the solution to simply space bairs better?

How should i be using nair the best? So far i've seen that rising fair/bair to falling nair is a decent approach and a safe way to land on the ground. I also know about the nair->rest combo.

 

[GSUB]

approach and retreat with nairs, then note to yourself what they do after, and you'll figure out what to do next.

I <3 ledgehopped nairs soooooo much.
I get a lot of kills with ledgehopped nair -> rest/fsmash/whatever.

 

[Ocean]

****ing love nair. its basically my staple move at the moment.

 

[idea]

yeah, wd out of shield. in general you can nair and float away out of shield sometimes but spacies are often too fast for that.

vs. falcon, you can both beat him in a spacing war with bair, and beat him up close with fairs and uphitting things. if bair isn't working i usually go for more fairs vs. falcon, but that might be just me. if he's running around too much, take away his running space, right? jiggs can combo + techchase him pretty well, and the edgeguarding is just silly. you kind of have to throw yourself really far into his range.

i mean, either that or outcamp him XD but i try to find an alternative to excessive patience whenever possible.

as for nair...don't go for nair rest very much, it's not reliable unless you're king =P

use nair by...
- leaving it out as a safety hitbox while you float away after some other aerials (watch how hbox does that). kind of works better reversed. hard to explain why until you try it.
- sometimes i'll try nairing by hitting their shield with it and landing behind them. doing it that way it's more of a tool to keep pressure on than anything else. you can also float in and out with it on their shield vs. slower characters, like peach, or scared falcon.
- you can also do a "C" arc with it, starting at the top of the "C", to give you a free grab if you hit them with the end and l-cancel it. but it also gives you enough time to float away safely if you hit their shield, since jiggs is so maneuverable in the air.
- you can use nair to end combos + float away when nothing else will hit in time, but i don't know how to explain that very well. just every now and then i'll think "the only way to do any more damage for sure before they get out of hitstun is with nair."

 

[GSUB]

as for nair...don't go for nair rest very much, it's not reliable unless you're king =P"

Then I must be King.
You should learn to make nair rest reliable then.

It can really turn the match around when you're a stock behind or are going even.

 

[Tyson651]

how do u get into marth and ganon when they're just spacing u out.

im having a tough time getting in and hitting them.

any special/good tips? thanks

 

[GSUB]

how do u get into marth and ganon when they're just spacing u out.

im having a tough time getting in and hitting them.

any special/good tips? thanks

I've come to love those two matches just because of one simple technique,

Empty Shorthops.


Empty shorthop around the place, and then throw in some bairs, and some more empty shorthops (works with ganon also).
The empty shorthops encourages them to approach, or it throws them off, and they'll shield while you're in the air, but drop the shield when you land. That is when you quickly shorthop backair or any other aerial/ground move.

Against marth this works especially well. Empty shorhop into their shield and the crouch. Usually leads to a free rest, or a couple of hits. Also, empty shorthop into your shield, and then punish their lag after they have hit your shield.


here's a couple examples:

Against Marth: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dA9kJ1QNcpo (ignore the speed change youtube gave it...)

Against Ganon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVDKaBogtjI

Once you get a Ganon in his shield, it's basically done.
To get him in his shield I suggest Fullhoping a bair or fair, then just land (no second aerial) in front of their shield and crouch (which baits grabs) and uptilt when they miss a grab, and just wavedash in and out of their shield. Even just shorthop backair to crouch -> stuff, into their shield works too.

 

[idea]

^yeah, empty shorthops and random crouching are really good. especially in those matchups.

i still say nair rest is unreliable =P it's good but i tend to stick to things i know i'll hit. nair has a lot of room for error. have you looked into how easy it is to DI out of, or what percentage it tends to stop working at?

also i'd have to, like...nair AT them. i used to do that more but i kept getting hit for it. landing in front of/on top of them with nair seems really risky.

or would you try to nair UNDER them? cause then that seems like a get-rested-'cause-of-DI-failure sort of thing...

 

[GSUB]

^^^ Then don't rest if it's not gonna hit...?
ahaha, you don't have to have like CRAZY reaction time to know if you should rest or fsmash or upsmash after nair instead...

 

[idea]

yeah, i guess that's true...

then i just don't feel like it, okay? XD

 

[Tyson651]

I've come to love those two matches just because of one simple technique,

Empty Shorthops.


Empty shorthop around the place, and then throw in some bairs, and some more empty shorthops (works with ganon also).
The empty shorthops encourages them to approach, or it throws them off, and they'll shield while you're in the air, but drop the shield when you land. That is when you quickly shorthop backair or any other aerial/ground move.

Against marth this works especially well. Empty shorhop into their shield and the crouch. Usually leads to a free rest, or a couple of hits. Also, empty shorthop into your shield, and then punish their lag after they have hit your shield.


here's a couple examples:

Against Marth: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dA9kJ1QNcpo (ignore the speed change youtube gave it...)

Against Ganon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVDKaBogtjI

Once you get a Ganon in his shield, it's basically done.
To get him in his shield I suggest Fullhoping a bair or fair, then just land (no second aerial) in front of their shield and crouch (which baits grabs) and uptilt when they miss a grab, and just wavedash in and out of their shield. Even just shorthop backair torest into their shield works too.

mmm.. thats the exact response i wanted!

empty short hops would work against ganons who always do retreating fairs? is it fast enough to land and sh bair before he can do another one?

thanks gsub, ill check those links later though. work blocks youtube

 

[GSUB]

mmm.. thats the exact response i wanted!

empty short hops would work against ganons who always do retreating fairs? is it fast enough to land and sh bair before he can do another one?

thanks gsub, ill check those links later though. work blocks youtube

Yeah no problem!!!

Hmm... Usually they'll go into their sheild, or jab right after, so it should be fine... It's like... once you're in the situation, you'll be able to feel what will work and what is right the second you land from that empty shorthop (just because they're empty shorthops doesn't mean you don't have to SPACE THEM)




Lol @ Idea. I guessss. But they really help you're loss ;]

 

[AnDaLe]

okay guys, I'm having trouble with campy *** foxys.
I cant seem to get down what to do as an approach on stages such as Final D, Pokestadium, and Dreamland (BIG ONES). Like this fox... all he does is Short hop double laser on the other side of the stage of where i'm at, then he'll dodge me from my fairs/nairs/bairs by either running under me, jumping over me, shield rolling away from my approaches, then repeat with lasers all over again till he can easily kill me. Help plz?

 

[Keblerelf]

Predict his spot dodges.

Predict his jumps.

Predict his rolls.

 

[GSUB]

yes
yes
yes
^^^^

But more than anything, predict his jumps with bair and fair!! (fair/bair above their heads)

 

[idea]

the trick is not to hit him where he is, but where he's about to be. fox is too fast, he's never actually where he is.

edit: lol, tell your friends to stop spotdodging. it should be called spot-lagging. it's mostly lag with a little bit of dodge thrown in.

 

[KirbyKaze]

yes
yes
yes
^^^^

But more than anything, predict his jumps with bair and fair!! (fair/bair above their heads)

Uair under him is pretty good when he FJs or does platform stuffs.

 

[Massive]

Question, is there any way to DI a (good) falcon's dthrow that doesn't result in a knee?

 

[Tyson651]

any DI -> rest his knee lol

otherwise, i would just say away and down.

edit: actually, is there any frame stuff on that rest out of dthrow->knee?

it seriously works like a charm most of the time. especially when u DI'd bad and have really high %.

 

[GSUB]

maybe against BAD Falcons LOL.
same with resting Fox out of upthrow.
it only works if they aerial late (while inside you).

I just switch up my DI based on low and high percent, to throw them off, so that when I'm at high percent, they'll think I'm gonna go the I usually do way (DI up at low percent = free knee for them, possibly double knee)

 

[Tyson651]

it works once in a while even against good falcons. i think i seen king do it to someone.

but u're right, against good falcons its a lot harder to pull off.

resting during fox's uthrow->uair?

omg lol im going to try that.

and that is true, if u do down and away a lot, then suddenly go up (or vice versa), then they'll sometimes miss.

 

[AnDaLe]

I've trierd resting out of Uthrow Uair. I've only done it once and only because he jumped too much. Its like the rest just go right through the hitboxes

 

[idea]

lol you guys...don't rest out of your friends' failed two-hit combos! what if they stop failing at them one day? then where will you be?!

but yeah, it should be expected to go through things. priority in part involves how "strong" something is, and rest is the strongest move--most damage AND most knockback.

not counting g&w's filled bucket. or...maybe ness' fully charged PK green explosion thingy?