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Squirtleknight is obnoxious obv :012:. - Marth+

goodoldganon

goodoldganon

Smash Champion
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Two other questions.

What are Marth's good throw follow ups?

Does Marth have any reliable ways to force a tech? It seems like read techs are the best way for me to get kills.
 
V

VietGeek

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1. Everything is DI dependent but Bthrow -> Bair, Fthrow -> Nair, etc.

Uthrow you can probably get guaranteed stuff for a good amount of time, or at least until you get to higher percentages (# > 95%~).

2. Dthrow...kinda. If they DI like up and away or something (7) then they can probably attack you out of it before you can swat them/airdodge/whatever. If they don't DI it will give you a tech option after like 20% maybe.

Just approximations. :012:
 
V

VietGeek

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i dont think its hard to teach urself the way of rarth

simply open the door to ur heart

listen to its beat

and blaze forth to victory
 
zaf

zaf

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understandable, but i need a push towards the right door.
what mindset should a marth player use is more of what i am asking. o.o
 
zaf

zaf

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i always enjoy watching neo play.

He likes to double jump a lot and use fair to its potential. The only thing i fear with this is being grabbed by a tether grab, or being hit by projectiles like banana's. I also think this would be hard against a yoshi. eggs are gaaay

edit: lol.... is Lagann-hen any good?
 
V

VietGeek

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Fun Fact: In Brawl/Brawl+, the bone ID for Marth's tipper (41) has a hitbox that DOESN'T meteor. However there's also another hitbox toward the back that CAN meteor, but it's not on the tip of the blade!

So, if you ever wondered why you always seemed to miss that tip on that Ken Combo, now you know! Blame Sakurai and friends
 
R

RiteToRmnSilent

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Cohoes, NY
VietGeek said:
Fun Fact: In Brawl/Brawl+, the bone ID for Marth's tipper (41) has a hitbox that DOESN'T meteor. However there's also another hitbox toward the back that CAN meteor, but it's not on the tip of the blade!

So, if you ever wondered why you always seemed to miss that tip on that Ken Combo, now you know! Blame Sakurai and friends
Click to expand...
Really?...know I know the answer to that mystery. Stupid fail hitbox. If it was up to me I would fix that.
 
V

VietGeek

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80 degrees. I've yet to see how each hitbox is aligned for the move visually though.
 
V

VietGeek

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CK is far from the best Marth in any game but he's officially one of the more likable ones

oh wait but he IS the best rarth

cheers for 10 minutes of fame
 
V

VietGeek

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double post w/e

MARTH AND RARTH MAINS ALIKE

I MUST HEAR UR WORDS BE THEY WARM OR COLD; SINCERE OR DEEPLY BITTER

just answer this question and any proceeding questions i may have later:

What would you give up in order for 6.0 Marth/Rarth to SHDF again?

answer truthfully now =V
 
leafgreen386

leafgreen386

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Nothing. Tbh, not having SHDF isn't what bothers me about this marth. It's fair's lag making it a lot less versatile in general. It hurts his juggle and gimp games a lot. While that is getting changed in some way or another, I don't really care if he gets his SHDF back or not.
 
V

VietGeek

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you guys aren't suppose to be here =X

leaf you and i both know that if we were the only two marth mains in this entire project there would be no controversy...just that marth would have the ph33r :012:

obv

err yeah neko don't say that you'll regret it somehow

like ur fighting snake on fd and he's at 150%

u utilt him and he lives via japanese-euro-east coast di

and ur leik "WTF RAGE :mad088::mad088: RAWR CAEPPU CAEPPU NANDE DESUKA?!!!11!112#24@#45@#%^

also leaf and i will be there

chuckling to ourselves

quietly

but surely

also why are Curly Fries so good ****
 
V

VietGeek

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but aside from the three of us no one would agree to that

neko it's raining and i have backpain

how do you feel if i say:

roy physics + Fair standard IASA on hit?

also NAMEDROP CHAOSKNIGHT ChaosKnight CK CHAOSKNIGHT

GET UR *** OVER HERE AND TELL ME WHAT "GOOD PHYSICS" ARE K THANKS

:048:
 
Veril

Veril

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Viet, Neko and Leaf, you already know what's happening to fair. Viet should also have a good idea of what the potential new physics will be.

What is the point of this?


And as to the up-tilt not KOing Snake at x% due to East Coast DI and the stupid ceilings, Marth's up-tilt is one of the moves I'm using to check the effect of ceiling height adjustments. Given that, the physics change, the fair fix, and the removal of the sakurai angle on several of his KO moves, Marth will be in a good place.
Don't make me rage plz
 
V

VietGeek

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well his current pending physics are more or less my creation so i would hope i know where it's going. =P

i was joking anyway but roy physics could totally work if marth mains actually like it. ;) not these rarth physics, which always seem to be indecisive and hesitant on itself.

too hesitant to glide in the air, too hesitant to be swiftly dash down. in all its action it knows neither of its forefathers. =V

I also seriously dislike how most of the Marth mains RARELY ever give feedback on ANYTHING. Yeah I know you guys are actually pretty lenient to what happens to your character until you eventually notice you can't even do the staple techniques you once adored. But what happened should at least teach you something here. Don't let the lobbyists others completely control your country character! More consistent feedback would be nice, danke schön. <_____<

also i think you already know how i feel about that fair change. tbh i would rather leave it as-is than resort to 'that.' we are basically just trading one radical change for another; and then just deciding which is the lesser of the two evils. yeah fair needs a nerf like a certain other character's signature move, but we're not all quite on the same boat on HOW it needs to be nerfed (hey at least I agree it needs to be nerfed right <_<)

personally i had an idea to keep the four frame duration, but add one more frame in the beginning of the animation so that the old frame 6 becomes the new frame 7 (and the old frame 7 would be gone period), and fair's range gets shifted up one frame in hitbox placement.

but idk how that would work out and i don't know how to edit animations yet.

edit @ leaf: what it work if i had frame speed mod do 0.5x frame 1, 1x frame 2 and change the Fair hitbox timer to Asychronous Timer frame 2 so that it would still appear in frame 4 in-game?
 
leafgreen386

leafgreen386

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edit @ leaf: what it work if i had frame speed mod do 0.5x frame 1, 1x frame 2 and change the Fair hitbox timer to Asychronous Timer frame 2 so that it would still appear in frame 4 in-game?
Click to expand...
1) Just use PSA's built-in frame mod.
2) That would still be using the old frame 3 as a reference point in spawning the hitbox if you did that (aka horribly awkward).
3) If you want to make the swing longer, you should be lengthening the (new) last hitbox frame, not the first, since it's the end that's getting cut from. Or, you could slow down the entire swing (run it at .75), which would turn those previous three frames into four frames. You could then speed up the following frames and slow down a later portion to make it look more appropriate for there to not be a hitbox there on what used to be the old fourth hitbox frame. Although tbh, if we're shaving off the last frame, I'd rather just keep the original portion of the swing the same, and only mess with the move after that point.

I'd also like to echo viet's thoughts about leaving the fair as-is being preferable compared to the change that's currently on the table, even though it doesn't mean much here.
 
Veril

Veril

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leafgreen386 said:
even though it doesn't mean much here.
Click to expand...
You're right.

This is not the place to throw out new ideas on something that has already been discussed ad nauseum in the backroom as well as whined about endlessly here. Especially new ideas that aren't the options we actually have available for this move. The only purpose of Viet posting it here, as far as I can see, is forcing me to predictably say: No.

The new fair (on the table) would have substantially better aerial followups due to reverting to the original iasa, but would lose a portion of its hitbox. The current fair you know well, is really good already, and the reason changing it became an option was the OVERWHELMING S*** FIT that was thrown on this thread.
 
Veril

Veril

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Gotcha... Mad persuasive. I'll totally take that into account. :)

Marth's fair is effective in its current form (esp when SHFFed) and it would be more effective offensively with the potential fixes, one of which is removing one or two frames from the hitbox and reverting the iasa. Which is really good for Marths non-SHFF combo game.


Whine whine whine...

VietGeek said:
yeah fair needs a nerf
Click to expand...
lol?
 
shanus

shanus

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Veril said:
Gotcha... Mad persuasive. I'll totally take that into account. :)

Marth's fair is effective in its current form (esp when SHFFed) and it would be more effective offensively with the potential fixes, one of which is removing one or two frames from the hitbox and reverting the iasa. Which is really good for Marths non-SHFF combo game.


Whine whine whine...



lol?
Click to expand...
Or you can do it right and fix the animation. I'm not even a marth main and its an obvious fix.

Lazy lazy lazy...
 
V

VietGeek

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it looks like it makes too much sense

when you add sense to smash then everything just gets broken
 
Veril

Veril

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shanus said:
Or you can do it right and fix the animation. I'm not even a marth main and its an obvious fix.

Lazy lazy lazy...
Click to expand...
I don't know when you got the impression that I wasn't fixing the animation. As to the "lazy" part, well, aside from it being based on a false assumption and obviously bs (as those who actually work with me know)... w/e you don't know what you're talking about. There isn't much else to say.
 
V

VietGeek

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I believe he meant fixing the animation to fix the hitbox problem, and not the tinkering the animation for the sake of the hitbox. I think the latter was what we originally wanted to do but I could be wrong.
 
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