Squirtleknight is obnoxious obv :012:. - Marth+

[ZeonStar]

What do I do to pressure shields? Uhhhh, I just hit things. Naw but seriously, because people get so **** scared of ganon, I usually space forward air and wait for them to roll, or react a certain way for an opening. I dunno, your asking a ganon player technical ****? WE JUST HIT PEOPLE IN THE FACE OK.

 

[VietGeek]

spoken like a true smasher rofl

 

[GHNeko]

zeon would watch tengen toppa gurren lagann

agree

i don't agree with the edgeguarding part tbh. it's even really. marth's recovery flings up faster while ganon's is slower; meaning it can stuff mistimed hog attempts (contrary to some beliefs marth's faster ascension isn't really good unless two ppl are going for the same ledge from around the same position...which happens how often in singles? yeah...)

idk you just need to know the length of your invincibility imo. a ganon recovering during invincibility frames of a marth on the ledge is kinda lol. unlike marth, ganon doesn't have any methods of stalling when below the stage to try and wait out invincibility. and while a ganon can simply time a ledge hug on a recovering marth, marth at least has more leeway with rising during recovery. i just believe marth has more options when recovering than ganon in the mu.

also ganon's shoryuken has a noticeable amount of hitstun and its trajectory allows for ganon to capitalize or go for a better position back from the ledge. if someone gets hit by DS flub it's just gonna whack them farther away from the ledge as a GTFO

yea. i suppose though with DI ganon really wont be able to capitalize and marth has more options when above a ganon than when ganon is above marth.

which brings me to the point that i don't think "reliable OoS options" and "good" OoS options are interchangeable, which excuse any misinterpretation, is kinda what's being implied.

maybe. maybe not. i think up B OOS is good when used properly.

all of marth's OoS options are laggy, totally unsafe on block, "last resort" sort of GTFO moves. they're so easily baited and any good ganon will go in knowing he can be somewhat liberal against marth's shield (compared to other characters at the very least).

none of his OOS options are all of those combined you know, except up B. and your statement about x being baited and etc etc is kinda a blanket statement you know. it's a general thing that happens across the board. :V

which btw zeon, how DO you go about pressuring shields exactly? fair -> jab -> look stupid as you dashdance -> etc. or what?

lol ganon pressuring shields. more like ganon scaring the **** out of *****es.

 

[VietGeek]

i just believe marth has more options when recovering than ganon in the mu.

in sheer numbers i agree but basically their recoveries are on-par with each other. i'd say ganon's is harder to intercept directly tho (for marth anyway). them air grabs are so rude sometimes lol

yo neko how the **** am i suppose to multi-quote if u gonna be leik that mang:

yea. i suppose though with DI ganon really wont be able to capitalize and marth has more options when above a ganon than when ganon is above marth.

with di it's still a positional advantage, a pretty nice one for ganon too since his uair is super good and you're shined blind from below.

none of his OOS options are all of those combined you know, except up B. and your statement about x being baited and etc etc is kinda a blanket statement you know. it's a general thing that happens across the board. :V

but all of them are generally unsafe on block (save a very few occasions; except grab but most of ganon's stuff pushes you too far away). in my experience ganon has to screw up really badly to get grabbed from marth (that's in a defensive position). i mean either that or both ganon jab and grab came out at the same frame

best options from what i see are usually nair/bair (maybe fair) just try to get the hell outta there. DS and Usmash seem kinda ballsy but might work. shield drop DB will just get you jabbed (at least) and idk about rising aerial DB tbh.

and yeah i like blankets as much as the other guy does, but marth's options all have notable commitment lag aside from jabs and dtilt, and ganon loves to exploit marth's clear weakness of close-combat.

the best way to do this match is to fair camp for a reaction iirc.

 

[GHNeko]

in sheer numbers i agree but basically their recoveries are on-par with each other. i'd say ganon's is harder to intercept directly tho (for marth anyway). them air grabs are so rude sometimes lol

I think marth's is harder but that's just I'm now starting to up B prematurely in order to catch people off guard and recover safely, something Ganon can't do.

yo neko how the **** am i suppose to multi-quote if u gonna be leik that mang:

idk lol

with di it's still a positional advantage, a pretty nice one for ganon too since his uair is super good and you're shined blind from below.

eh... nothing that marth can't deal with because marth has multiple things to do get down, especially like FF into an AD or stalling with DB1 and counter and etc. there is no point in chasing a marth that's in the air, but close enough to the ground when your ganon.

but all of them are generally unsafe on block (save a very few occasions; except grab but most of ganon's stuff pushes you too far away). in my experience ganon has to screw up really badly to get grabbed from marth (that's in a defensive position). i mean either that or both ganon jab and grab came out at the same frame

True, but who knows. There are multiple things a Marth can do that require reading to be punished rather than just reaction, I think at least.

best options from what i see are usually nair/bair (maybe fair) just try to get the hell outta there. DS and Usmash seem kinda ballsy but might work. shield drop DB will just get you jabbed (at least) and idk about rising aerial DB tbh.

I was thinking Nair as well. I've played the match up a few times offline so I have an idea of what Marth can do.

and yeah i like blankets as much as the other guy does, but marth's options all have notable commitment lag aside from jabs and dtilt, and ganon loves to exploit marth's clear weakness of close-combat.

The thing is Marth isnt supposed to even let ganon get in that close and you and I know he has the tools to do that without too much trouble.

the best way to do this match is to fair camp for a reaction iirc.

I think there is more that marth can do in this MU besides Fair camp.

 

[VietGeek]

ur right he can dashdance camp too ^_^

 

[GHNeko]

Don't forget tech chase. :V

 

[ZeonStar]

I enjoy driving purple semi-trucks, is that good for matchup discussion?

 

[VietGeek]

mine has better priority

actually zeon, as a ganon player what aspect of marth are you scared of the most? besides him being effeminate obv.

his player counterpicking melee doesn't count either ;(

 

[bleyva]

I enjoy driving purple semi-trucks, is that good for matchup discussion?

mine has better priority

i lol'd quite hard at this, cause its true :3

 

[ChaosKnight]

omfg so much discussion too bad i cant input anything into it i just play the game and **** >_>

 

[Veril]

omfg so much discussion too bad i cant input anything into it i just play the game and **** >_>

If you're winning why would you need or want to tell other people how? The logic makes sense. But... what a tease ;p

You going to Apex?

 

[ZeonStar]

Im probably scared of just getting fair combo'd the most. If marth is approaching me, I get really defensive, trying to shield and punish. Also F-smash is pretty scary. But honestly I have no problem dealing with him, but ive also not played any amazing marth players in +

 

[GHNeko]

I dont see what's so scary about Fsmash. :/

It has no where near the same scare potential as Falcon/Warlock Punch, Ike/D3 Fsmash, Ganon Utilt, etc etc

 

[VietGeek]

so i go in here

and see neko trolling

neko

sir

please

stop playing wifail

it is beginning to corrode ur mind away

also zeon

i will become amazing someday

just u wait

****ing ganon users *grumblegrumble*

 

[ChaosKnight]

gannon is trash imo just a little dangerous xD

 

[GHNeko]

so i go in here

and see neko trolling

neko

sir

please

stop playing wifail

it is beginning to corrode ur mind away

also zeon

i will become amazing someday

just u wait

****ing ganon users *grumblegrumble*

there is nothing scary about marth fsmash.

anyone scared of marth fsmash is a *****.

it's like being scared of a stronger version of Mario fsmash because that's what it is.

 

[VietGeek]

moar like a weaker version of mario fsmash

sweetspot of mario fsmash is easier to land than marth tipper

consistency is important

marth's fsmash isn't quite the first thing that comes to mind as consistent

but ganon's just scared about his body size. if he was a small character fsmash would be just a mediocre kill move in 9 situations out of 10.

its okay ganon u look fine

also anyone scared of the punches or utilt need to seriously rethink their strategy

but those were just bad examples neko

zeon's strat is to get neko to argue with me about semantics in which case i ragequit cuz wifail sucks hard and is my favorite john next to john smith

 

[GHNeko]

i meant stronger in the strength category. :V

 

[ZeonStar]

Oh, you were wanting me to tell you what I was scared of from marth? Eh, nothing, hes a babyfaced sourpuss icecar riding girlyman. I was just throwing out what I thought you guys wanted to hear, hes really not a threat to me at all, seriously. GET AT ME, as the black people would say.

 

[VietGeek]

oh

well then screw you

sword ganon is better than marth anyway

get at me

as you black ppl would say

 

[ChaosKnight]

lol viet i might play Brawl+ tommorrow if Thunderhorse wants to

 

[VietGeek]

that's cool bro you make marf look so cash

with the lack of shielding

and always being in the red

and pretending you can read people

 

[zaf]

can we get some marth vs yoshi discussion in this thread?
im strictly maining marth now and yoshi can be trouble at times

-eggs
-un-di-able grabs
-super armor
-usmash

those are the main problems currently

eggs stay forever and zone really well
the grabs, well are self explainatory
what moves can knock himk out of sa? I find myself trying to trade but i take the short end of the stick
usmash is huge and has nice prioroity. this is the easiest problem, know when and know when not to jump

 

[GHNeko]

They're pretty easy to dodge now. They're like Din's fire.

Just SH AD through the eggs. HOw you do it differs based on how far away yoshi is.

You have the advantage because of your range and being able to beat everything out. With horizontal range increase on fair, you shouldnt even lose to a spaced Bair from yoshi.

 

[zaf]

They're pretty easy to dodge now. They're like Din's fire.

Just SH AD through the eggs. HOw you do it differs based on how far away yoshi is.

You have the advantage because of your range and being able to beat everything out. With horizontal range increase on fair, you shouldnt even lose to a spaced Bair from yoshi.

AD through eggs is what the yoshi wants. They want to capitalize on the ad.
But like you said it depends on how far yoshi is.

what is getting me the most is the grabs, they do so much damage since they auto combo marth. and at high %'s it's a kill =/

i dont want to see anyone saying dont get grabbed, because it really isnt that easy.
have any of you even experienced yoshi's grab ? its **** o.o, like good ****

 

[VietGeek]

yoshi's pivot should be banned in tanamentsu obv

i've only faced competent yoshis on wi-fi (which means there's some extra gay things they can do for no real reason other than fighting game fail on nintondo wei-fei)

but can you post a match against what it elef? lol (bad w/ names)

usually i just PS eggs while walking after ADs aren't viable anymore.

once you get in close enough they'll expect 2 things: SH aerial (which they spotdodge and/or retreat pivot grab) or a grab from yourself. from here dashdancing is the best option you got prior to making your move. its the only real way to control any space during a 'neutral momentum' in this MU

you could also just run up, DC dtilt/jab and then just the IASA to grab, DB, spotdodge yourself, etc.

match-up is really annoying since all ur juggle traps can be SA DJC'd and he kills marth WAY TOO WELL. Another dumb thing is he is so ****ING HEAVY and Marth's kill options (in terms of consistency and reliability) are piss-poor. idk just DB him to death i guess (let's sign up for border control and abuse employee benefits)

truly tipped bair and flubbed uair will be the way to victory, money, women, fraternity, and canada dry ginger ale

 

[GHNeko]

PSing is a given for projectiles. I dont think you even have to mention that lol.

Also. Why can Sonic kill me 3x earlier than I can kill him? ;_;

 

[VietGeek]

tell marf to get a spring

jumping

it works

 

[GHNeko]

what is that supposed to mean

 

[Meru.]

... He means using an aerial (probably Fair). Even I know that. Though I might be wrong :D

But heh

Marth rhymes with fart.

Heh

 

[JCaesar]

Not in English...

 

[VietGeek]

not even in engrish

 

[zaf]

yoshi's pivot should be banned in tanamentsu obv

i've only faced competent yoshis on wi-fi (which means there's some extra gay things they can do for no real reason other than fighting game fail on nintondo wei-fei)

but can you post a match against what it elef? lol (bad w/ names)

usually i just PS eggs while walking after ADs aren't viable anymore.

once you get in close enough they'll expect 2 things: SH aerial (which they spotdodge and/or retreat pivot grab) or a grab from yourself. from here dashdancing is the best option you got prior to making your move. its the only real way to control any space during a 'neutral momentum' in this MU

you could also just run up, DC dtilt/jab and then just the IASA to grab, DB, spotdodge yourself, etc.

match-up is really annoying since all ur juggle traps can be SA DJC'd and he kills marth WAY TOO WELL. Another dumb thing is he is so ****ING HEAVY and Marth's kill options (in terms of consistency and reliability) are piss-poor. idk just DB him to death i guess (let's sign up for border control and abuse employee benefits)

truly tipped bair and flubbed uair will be the way to victory, money, women, fraternity, and canada dry ginger ale

I have some matches, but no recording. I can ask jer to upload like 3 matches or so. And yes it was against elef.
You are right about the ko %. Yoshi has a lot of options to kill me, and a lot of the time i find yoshi at high % and im chasing him, trying to kill him. I find that yoshi is hard to kill, marth has hard times killing and yoshi is amazing at recovery. He is also heavy, which is also annoying =/

Yoshi's grab also likes to grab me in the air lol. but this is something i have gotten used to.

also, i would like to know which aerials will knock yoshi out of sa, if there are any.
o.o

 

[VietGeek]

I don't think you can knock Yoshi out of the double jump SA. It's Super Armor not heavy armor so it'll just take damage; nothing can break it (except grabs but lolMarthairgrabs). =/

 

[GHNeko]

Footstooling > Super Armor, but gl with that.

 

[zaf]

i was playing my brother yesterday (shiek), and i noticed something.
near the edge, if i could grab him, fthrow him offstage into fair, and then follow him, i would be able to footstool when i jumped back on stage.

of course this works with specific %'s, but i believe it to be low ( like under 30-40%).

is this old or ?

 

[GHNeko]

Got a replay?

is it escapable?

works on only shiek?

tipped or untipped fair?

more detail plz

 

[zaf]

no replay, but i can replicate it. Its not that hard, but im in school atm.

escapable? no idea
probably works on more then just shiek, and i believe it is untipped.

i just hit shiek and she went in the same trojectory as me and then when i wanted to jump i footstooled shiek. after i did it, i realised what i did and tried it again several times throughout the match with success.

the reason i dont think it was tipped is because, i think that when you hit someone with a tipped fair, their trajectory is vertical no ? as where a normal untipped fair, follows a normal trajectory ??

yo viet, this worked the same as following someone with toon link after a nair into a footstool.

 

[VietGeek]

then yeah it's escapable but it could be a good gimmick...kinda depends <__<