Sonic's Moveset Discussion + Acronyms List

[Dark Sonic]

But F-smash is so amazing for outprioritizing/outranging other moves!!! I honestly think it's his best smash. Although I rarely kill out right with this (but you can say the same for d-smash), it's a lot easier to actually hit with, and it still sets them up for an edgeguard. But I think the best use of f-smash...is to just make people play uber defensively in fear of being f-smashed. Seriously, hitting with a few of these really screws with peoples heads (especially if you use it to puish spotdodges or rolls) and they really do just sit in their shield for longer than usual. And we all know how good Sonic's grab game is.

 

[ShadowLink84]

tilting the attack changes the trajectory a little bit.
its not a noticeable because Sonic's Fsmash isn't very strong but if you looka t Luigi who acn tilt his smashes, tilting causes them to kill up to 10% earlier.

@Dark: yeah as I mentioned it has good range but the issue is the speed. its basically like swinging Ike's Fair and not using the IASA frames afterwards.

 

[Tenki]

I don't remember any difference in trajectory when tilting the smashes.

It does help you get around things that'd normally hit you though, pretty cool.

Like up-tilted F-smash > Wario bite, while normal F-smash gets you in his mouth.

Weird? Cool.

I'm notorious for reverse-launching with F-smash. It's really cool.

Like... MK goes to dash attack you near the edge > you walk back and/or reverse-stutterstep > F-smash reverse launch > ??? > kill!

Oh, and Phoenix Dark seriously has like, weird shiz with his F-smash.
like that, but with a pawnch --> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vd_wr7ZBJCE

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

It's a slow move but it is oh so satisfying to casually walk backwards to avoid, say, a dash attack and then stutter step F Smash them

What %'s does it kill at?

 

[ROOOOY!]

On a midweight from the middle of Final Destination :

Without DI : 110%
With DI : 135%

Learn your percentages people, they're important. I have them memorised, so that I'm not staling out these moves whilst leading up to the kill.

 

[Kinzer]

I really like F-smash, I don't know why so many people aren't praising it. For one thing it's a freaking Falcon Punch. It has a cool whind-up animation. Sonic yells "GO!" when he PAUWNCHES! During the ending animation he has his hand in front of him like he is in some kind of Kung-Fu Warrior stance.

...Okay, with that out of the way. Fsmash is the best kill move Sonic has, not saying that you can do BoxobBair kills offstage. It has mediocre range, and that can be distorted with so many AT's like Shuttersteps and angling it to go up or down, whatever the situation calls for. Finally after the Start-up lag is over, it can come out fast.

 

[phosphorus]

It's also based on Sonic's Wind Up Punch from Sonic the Fighter.

But I still wish Sonic's Fsmash was some kind of Kick.

 

[aeghrur]

I think it's a good move... if your not predictable with it. I mean, even with the slow start-up, it's a nice kill move. It's just when you stale it out or become predictable and miss with it... PUNISH. Don't use it to damage though, cuz F-tilt is better for that and it stales this move out. Also, tilting this move down could help edge-guard... a little. I heard from Tenki that Up-tilted can break Mk's whorenado? Also, up smash with charging comes out must faster than simple tapping charge... mainly because charging is the wind-up animation. =/ Same with D-smash.

 

[Tenki]

I heard from Tenki that Up-tilted can break Mk's whorenado? Also, up smash with charging comes out must faster than simple tapping charge... mainly because charging is the wind-up animation. =/ Same with D-smash.

I don't think I said that. uFsmash beats Wario's grounded bite, that's all I said xD

 

[aeghrur]

I don't think I said that. uFsmash beats Wario's grounded bite, that's all I said xD

Really? I was sure SOMEONE said an Up-tilted F-smash timed right can beat whorenado.

 

[Browny]

i pretty much use 3 fsmashes per game. no reason whatsoever it should be staled when any punishing opporunity for an fsmash would have been better spent going for a u/dthrow.

fsmash angled downwards while standing at the edge can hit people if the try to ledgehop an attack or possibly get them if they dont sweetspot it properly (you can hit wolf out of wolf flash as he goes for an edge... sometimes)

 

[R4ZE]

dsmash and u smash both suffer from huge start up lag which can be easily eliminated by charging. (same goes for IKE's fsmash)

uFsmash can beat MK's tornado, and it can also beat mk's glide attack. pretty much, a properly timed fsmash from sonic just beats the §hit out of mk.


problem is, when u charge fsmash, ppl know its coming, and smart players that have seen it before can punish the ending lag of fsmash most of the time.


Fsmash is a pretty abusable move. It is the move that i get the most serious complaints about when i play sonic. People are always like WHAT THE EFFF when i nail em on the edge with a dFsmash.


fact that u can use it with skid stops and turnaround cancels, foxtrots, and u can extend the range from a stand still. plus it has priority that sonic needs. and finally, its one of his kill moves. it can't be overlooked I like to use down-b as my reserved killer, while i use bair, fsmash, and bair as damage dealers and kill moves.

 

[da K.I.D.]

1. uFsmash can beat MK's tornado, and it can also beat mk's glide attack. pretty much, a properly timed fsmash from sonic just beats the §hit out of mk.

2. fact that u can use it with skid stops and turnaround cancels, foxtrots, and u can extend the range from a stand still. plus it has priority that sonic needs. and finally, its one of his kill moves. it can't be overlooked I like to use down-b as my reserved killer, while i use bair, fsmash, and bair as damage dealers and kill moves.

1. the thing that makes tornado broken, is that it basically breaks physics
if MK tornados up at you, yes you can forward smash, but the tornado can stop on a dime, wait for your smash to whiff, and than proceed to move forward and **** you. add that to the fact that you basically have to be frame perfect to even pull that crap off, means that is possible, but most likely, its not going to happen.

also, just so we are all clear on this,
Many attacks clank, but no attack, repeating for emphasis...
NO ATTACK BEATS MKS GLIDE ATTACK. it makes him invincible. he cannot be hit out of it, if you think he can, the MK just mistimed his move.

2. why in the hell would you use down b to kill? and you said back air twice. that whole part of the post doesnt make sence

 

[MarKO X]

i pretty much use 3 fsmashes per game. no reason whatsoever should it be staled when any punishing opporunity for an fsmash would have been better spent going for a u/dthrow.

Minor fix, QFT.

I'm going to adopt this policy. If a fresh fsmash kills at 120% from the middle of FD, then it should be able to kill at 120% from the middle of FD. Yeah, I like this.

 

[Chis]

Can we move on now?

 

[ROOOOY!]

Grr, why couldn't you have let this drop off first page? I have to update it now for God's sake and I have Law essays and shit to do.
I'll do it now I suppose.

 

[Chis]

Just don't update it then

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

On the outdated topic of Utilt. I've been getting hit, slightly popped in the air, hitting with the weak part of uair, getting it canceled on landing and comboing that with an utilt. It's sexy and surprisingly effective.

 

[ShadowLink84]

You can break a tornado with an Fsmash. The timing is rather difficult.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

I broke a tornado with Bair. A couple of times actually. PD did too. RESEARCH!

 

[Dark Sonic]

^^Did you hit it near the top of the tornado?

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Yep. Early on too. Like.... the beginning frames. I know it doesn't have a lot of priority then so......

 

[Camalange]

I broke a tornado with Bair. A couple of times actually. PD did too. RESEARCH!

Man, what CAN'T Bair do?

 

[ROOOOY!]

Was it grounded? That makes a difference.
A grounded one has less 'priority' then an aerial one.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Ummm.....no? I don't think so. If he was he was on mast of Rainbow cruise so it was hard to tell. I'm pretty sure it was aerial.

 

[thecatinthehat]

Must have been a boxobair...

 

[MarKO X]

Boxobairs break Falcon Punches.

 

[Kinzer]

Luigi's Fireballs can break Falcon punches.

 

[thecatinthehat]

Luigi's Fireballs can break Falcon punches.

Are you questioning the power of a boxobair?
The concentrated power of **** a.k.a. Boxob?

 

[aeghrur]

Boxob has so much **** power, he can put it into more than BoxoBair so watch what you say.


Or he'll **** you infinitely times over

 

[Boxob]

There's a reason why people run into my Fsmashes so much.

Boxsmashes (new) have a gale boomerang effect on it, but better and sexier.

 

[aeghrur]

Everything's better and sexier with Boxob.

 

[Catt]

I did that too

Today I Bair-ed through a turning FAAAWL... COOON... PAWNCH during the PAWNCH! part.
Then I was like WTF? >_> Savin' that replay.
Does it always work?

 

[ShadowLink84]

Falcon punch has poor priority. it breaks to nearly everything.

Anyways the Fsmash is good for breaking MK tornado users specially the aerial one.

 

[ROOOOY!]

Not to be a cheeky bitch, but I'm kinda bogged down with work atm. Could someone do the fsmash write-up, and I'll add it to the front page and credit you.
I'd love you forever, and you may be allowed a nibble on my massive steak.
Only a small nibble, mind

 

[thecatinthehat]

HI I'M MEAN.

(Don't post profanity, catinthehat.)

 

[infomon]

Who are you calling a n00b? Shadowlink? I'm mostly in agreement with both his statements:

Falcon punch has poor priority. it breaks to nearly everything.

Most aerials cannot be clashed, whereas Falcon Punch is a Special that can clash, so it's just a matter of spacing the aerial right and you win. Falcon's punch actually leaves Falcon's hurtbox exposed around the fist, so if you're able to get a hitbox in there during the punch part, you'll hit him and possibly without taking damage. You can even do this with Sonic's Fair, but it's much harder than Bair.

Pretty much any hitbox (I'm including ground attacks and specials now) that causes within 10% of a Falcon punch will make it clash, so it won't hurt you (it's a single-hit attack). How much damage does a falcon punch typically cause? I'm not sure, but I think this puts plenty of attacks in the equal-or-better-priority-than-falcon-punch category.

Anyways the Fsmash is good for breaking MK tornado users specially the aerial one.

You have to space it well, but this is also correct. If MK tornado is on the ground, it's harder to "break" the tornado; because hitting its hitbox with most attacks will cause the tornado to quickly stop, without MK getting hurt. And from most directions, his hurtbox is buried in the hitbox, so this is the typical case. So it depends how you space a Sonic fsmash if you want to hurt MK out of the tornado.

An aerial tornado is easier to hit, because Sonic's fsmash is a disjointed hitbox that can reach into the 'nado to damage MK without Sonic getting hurt. You've got to think about where Sonic and MK would be for Sonic to be able to use a ground attack against an aerial tornado, but if this is about to happen then it's usually not bad for Sonic. Remember that you can angle the Fsmash to reach into MK's hurtbox. I just did this a bunch in training mode.

But it's kinda moot because usually the 'nado's coming towards you so it's hard in practice for Sonic to stop the 'nado with his fsmash. But if ShadowLink has success with this against real people, it wouldn't surprise me too much. *shrug*

 

[thecatinthehat]

No. Shadowlink is sexy in my eyes. I was flaming Catt.

 

[infomon]

Oh. Why? The priority interaction between Sonic's Bair and Falcon Punch is nontrivial.

 

[thecatinthehat]

lol it's just his name bro.