Sonic's Moveset Discussion + Acronyms List

[thecatinthehat]

Question....
Say the 'puff whiffs her rest (or any other similar situation).
What's more profitable, a fully charged D-smash or a fully charged U-smash?

 

[Chis]

Down smash

Front: 12%>16%(fully charged)
Back: 9%>12%(fully charged)

It's comes out faster than a Forward smash and sends the target at a more horizontal trajectory. Contains ASAP (as soon as possible) frames and after the initial spin, the 2nd can hit again if done at very close range (good for sidesteppers). ASAP frames help him offensively and defensively if Down smash was dodge/shielded.

The charging and releasing of Down smash can be confused as VB and the other spin attacks because of the sounds and looks. Mind games son!

 

[Kinzer]

It depends, although I think Dsmash is favored here. That Pokemon is quite light and could probably escape the strikes from Usmash with good DI, but Dsmash is reliable in this case where if if your opponent has punishing lag "screaming" to get hit out of (lol at Jigg's rest), you can get within touching range of Jiggs, charge up a Dsmash, and watch it go fly without it even jumping.

 

[Camalange]

Question....
Say the 'puff whiffs her rest (or any other similar situation).
What's more profitable, a fully charged D-smash or a fully charged U-smash?

D-smash, it's a more reliable kill move. I usually use U-smash for racking up damage or to disrupt something. D-smash sends horizontal too, and usually horizontal kills are easier than vertical kills.

I love D-smash. It's awesome against people who are spot dodge happy. It really messes with 'em because of the strange timing for the hitbox.

 

[Tenki]

Down smash

Front: 12%>16%(fully charged)
Back: 9%>12%(fully charged)

It's comes out faster than a Forward smash and sends the target at a more horizontal trajectory. Contains ASAP (as soon as possible) frames and after the initial spin, the 2nd can hit again if done at very close range (good for sidesteppers). ASAP frames help him offensively and defensively if Down smash was dodge/shielded.

The charging and releasing of Down smash can be confused as VB and the other spin attacks because of the sounds and looks. Mind games son!
- IASA, not ASAP. It's a stupid acronym, but it's what people seem to call it.

Don't ever rely on your opponents confusing your moves. It's always a plus when it happens, but don't expect it to.

Question....
Say the 'puff whiffs her rest (or any other similar situation).
What's more profitable, a fully charged D-smash or a fully charged U-smash?

D-smash, definitely. If you do a charged U-smash, that means that you're actually starting next to Puff, since she's not moving. And if you hit with the beginning of the U-smash, it tends to throw people out of the U-smash prematurely (see: U-smash spike)


=========

I didn't notice/don't feel like D-smash is faster than F-smash, but its forward range (for the first hit) is definitely shorter than F-smash, so I only really use it to punish landing lag, spotdodges, and rolls, or if I staled out my F-smash.

On another note, if you do a D-smash on the edge of a level, it'll slide you in. I've used it for random interruptor-style slides.

It does have a weakness though- it only hits once. One shield is all your opponent needs to be able to grab/smash you out of it.

 

[thecatinthehat]

Ok next question.
Same scenario with the 'puff.
Forward or down smash?

 

[Kinzer]

Really Tenki? I thought it was hard for people to punish me in/out of my Dsmash, but then again maybe that's because they don't know that like I didn't up until now.

Edit: Cat it's in the favor of Fsmash now just because Fsmash of course has more horizontal knockback and with that same logic has more K.O. potential than Dsmash could have. Both are still pretty good for kills but you want to do Fsmash if possible.

 

[thecatinthehat]

Really? I always thought d-smash had more knockback.

 

[ROOOOY!]

I never use dsmash for kills. NEVER.
Usually fsmash.

 

[Camalange]

Ok next question.
Same scenario with the 'puff.
Forward or down smash?

All these puff questions! Makes me wonder if it's because of me...
lol, I'm just playin', but definitely F-smash.

 

[P a i n]

Dsmash is good (and easy) to punish spacing mistakes imo.

 

[Napilopez]

Knockback wise for kill moves, it goes :

Bair > Fsmash > Dsmash

I never use dsmash for kills. NEVER.
Usually fsmash.

Huh? Isn't it Fsmash>Dsmash>Bair, when they are all not stale?

 

[Tenki]

Knockback wise for kill moves, it goes :

Bair > Fsmash > Dsmash

I never use dsmash for kills. NEVER.
Usually fsmash.

nonononononono

Fsmash : 110% [135% with up-towards DI]
Dsmash (first hit): 120% [145% with up-towards DI]
Usmash (last hit): 170% [200% with sideways DI]
U-tilt (full triple hit): 155% [190% with down-away DI] (for star KO. It can kill off the sides at lower %'s if you're closer to the edges)
B-air: 125% (sweet spot) [155% with up-towards DI] (can star KO at lower% if U-DI'd in midair)
U-throw (FD height): 195% [215% with down+towards DI]

F-smash >= Dsmash >> B-air

knockback power, anyway.

Arguably, since B-air can be done off-stage, it can kill earlier than F-smash, but in terms of horizontal knockback, it's the worst of the famed 3.

 

[Kinzer]

So Dsmash is the 2nd best kill move Sonic has in his arsenal? Sweet!

Just out of curiosity, who was the dummy that those tests were performed on?

Edit: Oh one more thing, were the smashes charged up or was it just done as soon as can be?

 

[ROOOOY!]

Oh. ****.
I uhh..meant..

Boxobair > fsmash > dsmash > bair

Wasn't it obvious?...

 

[Espy Rose]

Oh. ****.
I uhh..meant..

Boxobair > fsmash > dsmash > bair

Wasn't it obvious?...

OMG.

Boxobair and bair are two different entities?

 

[Kinzer]

Oh. ****.
I uhh..meant..

Boxobair > fsmash > dsmash > bair

Wasn't it obvious?...

This wins, that is all, please carry on with the Dsmash discussion please.

 

[thecatinthehat]

yeah.....nice save.

 

[Napilopez]

So Dsmash is the 2nd best kill move Sonic has in his arsenal? Sweet!

Just out of curiosity, who was the dummy that those tests were performed on?

Edit: Oh one more thing, were the smashes charged up or was it just done as soon as can be?

The one with the second most knockback, yes. Second best? Thats arguable. You can hit someone at any location with a Bair. You can't do that with your smashes. Also, Dsmash has a bleh startup, and its range isn't anything to write home about. Butttttt If you can land it, then its quite cool =P

 

[aeghrur]

Personally, I really like the D-smash to throw out at random times. If they mess up their spacing, hit, if they spot dodge, small hit, if they run into a charged one, well, what's not to like? I don't like the slow start-up, but I love the IASA frames for less chance of punishment after. =O It's a good KO move if you've staled out your B-air and F-smash.

 

[Tenki]

So Dsmash is the 2nd best kill move Sonic has in his arsenal? Sweet!

Just out of curiosity, who was the dummy that those tests were performed on?

Edit: Oh one more thing, were the smashes charged up or was it just done as soon as can be?

Oh, they were tested on Marth, and all of these were tested without charge. Charge seems to 'modify' the kill %'s by -10% for each half second charged, or something like that.

Finishing moves and setups: aka HOW TO KILL WITH SONIC!?

aside from the incomplete list of 'translations' to character weights (though it gives a good idea of them) and the 'finishing move setups' (you can ignore those, or... keep them in mind if your opponent doesn't DI right =P), the kill move %'s were tested and confirmed with DI, so you should be able to get a better feel for it from there.

 

[MarKO X]

Here's a question: which comes out faster? Dsmash or Fsmash?

 

[Browny]

dsmash

frame data thread is good :O

 

[Camalange]

dsmash

frame data thread is good :O

Yeah, whoever runs that thread must be a great guy!

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

lol. Let's all Spotdodge Dsmash just like ROBs. That'll work right? XD

Although Dsmash is great for punishing landers IMO. Like if Sonic Dairs and you're waiting or they're landing out of recovery. Pivot Dsmash is just as sexy, if not MORE sexy, than pivot Fsmash.

 

[Boxob]

 

[Tenki]

steak

Dinner.

Steaksteak?

 

[Boxob]

Tacobell steak is delicious.

 

[darkNES386]

Here's a question: which comes out faster? Dsmash or Fsmash?

Well regardless, your opponent's smash is probably coming out faster. I use Dsmash to really catch people off guard/punish people who roll predictably. You really can't expect to bust this out like R.O.B or Diddy Kong can after spot dodging. You'll lose this battle everytime.

 

[Kinzer]

Dsmash seems to have some decent priority on some attacks, though.

 

[JMan8891]

Steakums!!!
Yea... spot/roll dodgers eat dsmashes. That... and landing laggers (Or a hillarious approach: run up, screech stop>Dsmash. So satisfying)

 

[ROOOOY!]

*Shameless bump*
Seriously, I know next to nothing about dsmash because I never use it. Either talk moar or tell me that you're done with discussing it and I'll do a write up for it.

 

[Chis]

I believed we're finished here ROOOOY!

Question: Will you be covering B> and BV?

 

[ROOOOY!]

Okidoke. I'll do a write-up now.
And yes I will.
I'll also include VSDJ and ASC discussion because they're pretty different to their more' standard' variants.

 

[ROOOOY!]

I have a feeling I'm going to be re-doing the write up on ftilt and dsmash somewhere down the line, because neither are that good in comparison to the others (which aren't great anyway.)
Anyways, now we've got that out the way.
Fsmash.
GO!

Edit : Didn't realise I double posted. Oh well.

 

[Umby]

Silly bitch.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Fsmash sucks.

That is right I said it, Sonic's Fsmash sucks.

yes it has great range, sexy priority (you'll break DK's Fsmash) but the damage, knockback and range do not make up for what hurts it most. The speed.

Its nice that you can stutterstep and catch people offguard but its usages are severely limited.


For chrissakes Marth has a faster Fsmash than Sonic, it has great range, massive power when tipped.
Sonic does not have that, granted his Fsmash has good range and good knockback but the cons just outweigh the pros a great degree.

The best usage I have for it is killing Wario's.

Now as for the size of the hitbox.
Its unusually big. The entire arm, fist, head and part of his back all count as a hitbox.

 

[Chis]

Forward smash

14% to 19%(charged)

Best kill move, can be stutter stepped to three different variations. Can be tilted, disjointed hit box, laggy start up.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Translation: It sucks.

you mean strongest kill move not best BTW.

IMO Bair is the best one due to its versatility even though its not the strongest.

 

[ROOOOY!]

Would I be right in saying that tilting the fsmash has no effect on knockback/kill percentages?

Infact, the only use I can think for the up tilted one is :

On Wario

Grab -> pummel -> air release -> up angled fsmash.

Inescapable for him, aye.