Sonic's Moveset Discussion + Acronyms List

[Napilopez]

Just wanted to add something about the relliability of fsmash.

Its reliable.

Lol, don't stale it, and it will kill. DIing against it won't save you much pain, because its trajectory is neither purely horizontal or vertical. Basically, DI down will get you KILLED and DIing upwards at most will sabe you perhaps 15-20%. If you DI upward too much, Sonic might even land a star KO, which I have lol.

And I don't think anyone mentioned Stutter stepping. Sonic's don't use it enough. Fsmash is so versatile because you can do it out of a foxtrot, Dash pivot cancel, screech stop, dashdance pivot. Its spiraling motion when charging is hypnotic, allowing you to land many charged fsmashes. It pulls back when charging or at the beginning of its animation, helping you avoid attacks, and you can use a retreating stutterstep to make this even more helpful. It may be average in killing power, but I would really call it one of the most reliable killers in the game, as long as you haven't staled it.

 

[thecatinthehat]

Tenki pulled a very sexy reverse stutter stepped f-smash out of a dsmash.

 

[Catt]

Image with a bad word in it.[/QUOTE]

Reported
I'm in no way trying to steal your thunder... or steak, nor did I say or do anything to provoke this flame. People are going to have similar words in their usernames every now and then. Deal with it.

Anyway back on topic, I usually never use the Fsmash without stutter stepping. I also like to do stutter step charging Fsmashes. It throws off the opponent's spacing and dodging, but it's best used when the opponent rushes you.

Opponent comes your direction(expecting to dodge an Fsmash)> they get cut short from the stutter step and dodge in panic> then when leaving the dodge they get Fsmashed.
ssFsmash> interrupt with hold z> release

It's helped me get lot's of kills, just don't use it more than once or twice a battle.

 

[thecatinthehat]

Reported
I'm in no way trying to steal your thunder... or steak, nor did I say or do anything to provoke this flame. People are going to have similar words in their usernames every now and then. Deal with it.

lol it was a joke...chill. I could give two s**ts what your username is.
Thanks for the "1 Point" though, Youko.

 

[Espy Rose]

I'm surprised the report button is ever used...just suck it up.

And I don't think anyone mentioned Stutter stepping. Sonic's don't use it enough.

...I use it...;_;

I try using it as much as possible. It's so good.

 

[Phoenix_Dark]

I'm better at Sonic Pawnching than all of you. Deal with it.

 

[Napilopez]

I'm surprised the report button is ever used...just suck it up.



...I use it...;_;

I try using it as much as possible. It's so good.

Haha I was just watching your vids over and noticed a sweet stutter step x2 against Hylian XD. He shielded it, but seeing an ssx2 in-game is too sweet =P.

I think I found my first true gripe with using the Wiichuck setup, doing a double stutter step is harder ='(. Well not necesarily harder, but the timing is different than the GC one, and the GC one seems to give you a larger window. Oh well!

 

[Tenki]

And I don't think anyone mentioned Stutter stepping. Sonic's don't use it enough.

I still can't see the use for forward stutter step.

But, reverse stutter step is too cool.

Also, [near edge]:
[bait dash attack/dash grab/landing lag near you] > reverse stutterstep > reverse launch = too good.

I'm better at Sonic Pawnching than all of you. Deal with it.

QFT.

 

[Napilopez]

I still can't see the use for forward stutter step.

Mostly for mindgamed kills:

Against a defensive player, I love to just repeatedly spam fsmash in one place, just outside of his or her range leaving my opponent wondering what im doing. Then all of a sudden on the last fsmash, I will stutter step, cathcing them by surprise for the kill.

Also:

Run at my opponent, making them think im going for an fair dash attack or grab, then screech stop quite a bit away from him or her. Opponent expectedly shields/spotdodges, then I proceed to stutter step x2 from 2 body lengths away. Its much more difficult to see coming than say a foxtrotted fsmash IMO, and has less risk.

foxtrot to stutter stepped fsmash is quite awesome too.

 

[aeghrur]

Okay, I will attempt at a failed write up for the F-smash.
It is a very versatile move with many possibilities. You can stutter step, reverse stutter step, come out of fox trots, etc. These can be used for mindgames which is good. It also can break wario's bite if aimed upwards and MK's tornado if timed right. Aiming downwards, it can edgeguard quite well as it can hit people who don't perfectly grab the ledge. It has a decent range, amazing priority, and can launch people backwards as well as forwards. People will run into charged F-smashes at times because it goes back and then hits forward... but don't count on it.


On the other hand, it has some faults. It comes out quite slowly because you have to wind it first. If you charge it though, the punch will come out faster. It KOs at 110%(135% with Up-toward DI) but watch out for staled out moves. Don't use this move as a damager, instead, save it as a killer. F-tilt can be used as a damager instead. Don't be predictable as you will be punished.

 

[Espy Rose]

Mostly for mindgamed kills:

Against a defensive player, I love to just repeatedly spam fsmash in one place, just outside of his or her range leaving my opponent wondering what im doing. Then all of a sudden on the last fsmash, I will stutter step, cathcing them by surprise for the kill.

Also:

Run at my opponent, making them think im going for an fair dash attack or grab, then screech stop quite a bit away from him or her. Opponent expectedly shields/spotdodges, then I proceed to stutter step x2 from 2 body lengths away. Its much more difficult to see coming than say a foxtrotted fsmash IMO, and has less risk.

foxtrot to stutter stepped fsmash is quite awesome too.

I thought what I did to his MK on Smashville in the second match was a foxtrot to a stutter step.

I don't know anymore.

 

[Kinzer]

Hey ROOOY!, I'll go ahead and see what I can do with the Fsmash write-up, if you like it just go ahead and use it, if not then just don't. I won't be too devastated either if you are honest with me and tell me it sucks.

"Foward Smash is a neat move in Sonic's set. To start of, it's his best horizontal killer undiminshed, and so many ATs can be applied to Foward Smash to throw off the opponent.

The most basic of them is the Shutter Step, Sonic can sort of "increase" the range of Forward Smash to throw off a camping opponent who might at first think that it won't reach, but with that extra boost he will be suprised when he eats a "SONIC PAWNCH!" To the Stomach/Foot/Face. You ask why I mentioned all those targets? Well, another nifty trick that can be performed with Forward Smash is that it can be slightly tilted upwards or downwards to hit opponents accordingly, Awesome no? If you want a good example of when to tilt the Forward Smash, just imagine how this works wonders for opponents trying to recover and don't automatically sweetspot the ledge.

Shuttersteps can also be used as a retreating move. This can apply like say you want to punish an opponent who has a very laggy dash attack like D3, this works wonders!

Finally there is a rumor gonig around somewhere that somebody has mentioned that a Forward Smash tilted up will kill opponents 5% earlier, although this needs confirmation.

Remember that wather the rumor is true or not that this is Sonic's best kill move when undiminished and it connects. This will kill Marth from the middle of FD without DI at 110%. This move has some noticable start-up and ending lag, but it fairly fast as of terms of releasing the move, use this as a mindgame to throw off your opponent!"

Just go ahead and look at it, I might have made some typos/some things in there might not be right, otherwise please feel free to use this as something to go on.

 

[Tenki]

too friendly, and it's stutter, not shutter step.

I'll do it. in a moment.


"Forward Smash is Sonic's highest-knockback move. It's also his slowest A-move, with noticeable startup and ending lag. Slower-than-Ike's-F-tilt-slow.
However, its speed problems are almost made up for by its range and versatility. You can use it in a variety of dash-related techs - stutter step ('turnaround "c-stick" fsmash'), Foxtrot> F-smash, dashdance F-smash (reverse stutter step // "stutter step x2"). But keep in mind its speed. As a slow move, don't expect to punish a whiffed move with it on reflex. Predict and punish. Use it deliberately, mindgame it. Whether it's using it out of a foxtrot, stutterstep/dashdance, fulldash > dash-pivot-cancel stutterstep, or even just charging it to bait and punish a spotdodge, make it count. Well-placed, charged F-smashes are really nice, because even though it has startup and ending lag, it's pretty quick upon release, so if you can mindgame/predict correctly and start the F-smash just a little earlier, you can punish a 'forced whiff' with a charged smash that has enough speed to punish the move - the concept behind reverse stutterstep.

Some interesting things about its hitbox and trajectory:
- Tilting the smash doesn't necessarily give extra knockback, as it does for some characters, but it can help you get around certain hitbox issues against certain moves, or even shield-poking. Grounded Wario Bite is easily defeated by an up-tilted F-smash, and there are some cases of MK Tornado and poorly-spaced Glide Attacks being hit by tilted F-smash.
- Its hitbox extends slightly past the graphics, meaning that it's slightly disjointed.
- It can hit slightly behind Sonic - his whole body, horizontally speaking, is an attackbox during the punch.. Interesting to note, but it's possible to launch your opponent backwards with a F-smash, provided that they end up behind your first when you release the F-smash. This makes for "WTF BS!" deaths, especially when combined with reverse stutterstep."

 

[Napilopez]

Shutter step made me lol. Thanks for trying though Kinzer and Arhrgerur!

 

[Kinzer]

Never leave it in the hands of a ****** to do a smart-mans job.

 

[Napilopez]

Never leave it in the hands of a ****** to do a smart-mans job.

We main Sonic. None of us is smart. =PP

 

[Umby]

We main Sonic. None of us is smart. =PP

True on the boards. False in the game.

 

[ShadowLink84]

True on the boards. False in the game.

Agreed on both accounts.

 

[R4ZE]

1. the thing that makes tornado broken, is that it basically breaks physics
if MK tornados up at you, yes you can forward smash, but the tornado can stop on a dime, wait for your smash to whiff, and than proceed to move forward and **** you. add that to the fact that you basically have to be frame perfect to even pull that crap off, means that is possible, but most likely, its not going to happen.

also, just so we are all clear on this,
Many attacks clank, but no attack, repeating for emphasis...
NO ATTACK BEATS MKS GLIDE ATTACK. it makes him invincible. he cannot be hit out of it, if you think he can, the MK just mistimed his move.

2. why in the hell would you use down b to kill? and you said back air twice. that whole part of the post doesnt make sence

i meant: down A(dsmash) is my reserved killer. soory for putting bair twice... oh... and sorry for not being perfect. (like that is a requireement of this board anyway)


and mk's glide attack can be beaten. he didnt miss-time ****. he was a pro mk that wins tournaments regularly.

 

[ROOOOY!]

Thank you all for your efforts on the write ups so far.

I'll continue doing the write-ups, unless Tenki's is in a preferred style to my previous ones so I'll dump all the work on him =p
Nah I'm joking. Discussion on upsmash now, please.

I'm positive this attack has invincy frames of some form. Can I get any confirmation of that?

 

[Chis]

Up smash

Uncharged: 5, 1, 1, 1, 1,1 , 1, 3 Total: 14%
Charged: 7, 1, 1, 2, 1, 1, 2, 4 Total: 19%

Dash attack cancel, hypensmash and the delayed dash attack DAC (or fox trot DAC?). Also it has invincible frames when Sonic's spining in a ball in mid-air. Also the up smash from sheild. And the semi-spike that works on mid-light weight characters. Sometimes it can be DI out of and it is quite a bit of cool down.

 

[Tenki]

Up smash

Uncharged: 5, 1, 1, 1, 1,1 , 1, 3 Total: 14%
Charged: 7, 1, 1, 2, 1, 1, 2, 4 Total: 19%

Dash attack cancel, hypensmash and the delayed dash attack DAC (or fox trot DAC?). Also it has invincible frames when Sonic's spining in a ball in mid-air. Also the up smash from sheild. And the semi-spike that works on mid-light weight characters. Sometimes it can be DI out of and it is quite a bit of cool down.

U-smash sucks.

imo.


Anyway, it does have invincibility frames somewhere - there was video of Sonic surviving C4-stickies, and I've had a close range homing attack not home in on a Sonic who did Usmash (HA doesn't home in on dodge/invincibility frames).

If you hit with the beginning of usmash, it launches people out of the move early on, and sometimes at weird angles, like horizontally, or more famously, downwards.

In general, it should be done sliding, and so you avoid the initial hit - that way you launch your opponent upwards.

It has horrible ending lag.

 

[infomon]

Also the up smash from sheild.

(slightly off-topic) What's up with these... is it really different than lowering your shield then up-smashing? Do you need tap-jump on? Is it useful for Sonic, with Up-smash's bad start-up lag?

 

[thecatinthehat]

(slightly off-topic) What's up with these... is it really different than lowering your shield then up-smashing? Do you need tap-jump on? Is it useful for Sonic, with Up-smash's bad start-up lag?

It's a few frames faster (I think).
Yes, you need tap jump on.

 

[Napilopez]

I think to do it "correctly" you need tap jump on, but IDC cuz I abhor tap-jumping XD.

I love Usmash. Its a versatile, dynamic, and effective damage. If it had some more knockback, itd be a party.

You should almost never do it from just standing though IMO, unless you're trying to beat out an aerial, in which case utilt might come more in handy.

Doing a delayed DAC will totally throw your opponent off, seriously. Theres little point in DACing if you don't delay it over a hyphen smash though, unless you truly need that small amount of extra distance. Also, I think you can imitate the effect of a DAC with just a foxtrot by inputting another foxtrot and then hypen smashing, but I'm not sure how the timing works for that.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Usmash is the worst smash for Sonic and the least useful move.

It has ltitle versatiltiy and aside from the invincibility frames its not really useful.
its a great move for dealing with characters like Lucario and peach who like to stay above and Dair but otherwise, don't use it.

 

[thecatinthehat]

My rank,

F-smash
U-smash
D-smash

 

[ShadowLink84]

nu uh its


Fsmash
Dsmash
Bair
Usmash

Thats right... the Bair is a smash move. >_>

 

[Napilopez]

My rank,

F-smash
U-smash
D-smash

Haha, that spell Fud.

Stop with the usmash hate yo. =P

 

[thecatinthehat]

nu uh its


Fsmash
Dsmash
Bair
Usmash

Thats right... the Bair is a smash move. >_>

http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=2771313

Haha, that spell Fud.

lol.

 

[Kinzer]

Cat, you just keep on busting the pwn, even though you got reported for that, the guy just can't tell that the internet is NOT serious business, especially being on the Sonic boards.

On topic though, I LOVE Usmash, it has so many hits for some semi-damage-racking (assuming it doesn't push them away until the final hit), it can eat through shields, it can be hypened for gap-closing (sometimes), it changes Sonic's hurtbox to just the ball, and it still is quite a safe move to use when it isn't in the lagging frames. The only thing that could make this move better was if it had killing potential! (it does but that's at very high percentages and it most likely has to be undiminished)

That's just the stuff most people have yet to mention, some people say iot has invincibility frames (I never notice them in combat, I need to find a video showing it to see it myself :/)

 

[ROOOOY!]

It's pretty comparable to utilt, to say if you miss with it, you're going to get punished.

 

[Napilopez]

Only thing is that thanks to teh High-fen Smashzors, and an overall larger hitbox, I think, you are much likely to land a hit with the Usmash than you are with the utilt. Also the slide from the hyphen smash lets you move far away enough to possibly escape punishment.

 

[ShadowLink84]

http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=2771313



lol.

http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=2771334

 

[thecatinthehat]

http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=2771334

http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=2771350

 

[aeghrur]

I like U-smash cuz of the hyphen smash. =) Aside from that, I guess I use it for platforms a little above me. I think the U-smash to offstage+aerial might be useless, but it'd be cool to do anyhow... if we could figure out how it was done.

 

[Napilopez]

I Think ShadowLink officially wins.

umm what else is there to say about Usmash?

Oh, its awesome on battlefield and lylat, or any stage with platforms XD.

How does it dair priority wise? Which aerials can it beat out and whatnot?

Actually, how do ANY of Sonic's moves work priority wise? -_-

I like U-smash cuz of the hyphen smash. =) Aside from that, I guess I use it for platforms a little above me. I think the U-smash to offstage+aerial might be useless, but it'd be cool to do anyhow... if we could figure out how it was done.

I'm pretty sure that was just shield push related, although I'm hoping not. You imagine Uair spike to Bair stagespike? Too good.

 

[Tenki]

Only thing is that thanks to teh High-fen Smashzors, and an overall larger hitbox, I think, you are much likely to land a hit with the Usmash than you are with the utilt. Also the slide from the hyphen smash lets you move far away enough to possibly escape punishment.

Whaat.

My problem with it is its starting lag- you're very vulnerable while sliding and starting U-smash.

It's still very punishable.

 

[Kinzer]

Oh how did I forget to mention, I only fall more in love with Usmash with platforms, nothing is better than attacking like a groundhog.

 

[aeghrur]

I Think ShadowLink officially wins.

umm what else is there to say about Usmash?

Oh, its awesome on battlefield and lylat, or any stage with platforms XD.

How does it dair priority wise? Which aerials can it beat out and whatnot?

Actually, how do ANY of Sonic's moves work priority wise? -_-

http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=2771355