Sonic's Moveset Discussion + Acronyms List

[Sonic-Fan]

Nair is amazing, it comes out fast and has decent knockback/damage.

I use it to stop characters that are combo-****** me.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

It's useful and reasonably safe for getting extra damage out of a connected Spindash ---> Jump follow up. I like to also spice things up sometimes and fast fall out of a ground Up + B with Nair instead of using Dair. Only very rarely as it can be very easily punished.

What I have noticed is that Sonics Nair has a very very long duration. Like Peach's...just less priority and kill power

 

[aeghrur]

For some reason, I love to use the N-air for gimping. o.O, I guess it's because on slow recovery moves, the long duration allows you a bigger margin of error. :O If the first part hits, it's okay knockback too. If any part hits, they drop a little, all the better huh? But it's only for slow recovering people. =/
Great move to break out of stringed hits too.

 

[Greenstreet]

I find this move pretty darn sexy. Really.

Lately I have been messing around with the following:

U-throw --> B-air --> reverse spinshot --> N-air

It works at some percentages but looks hella-cool when you pull it off.
This move should really be used for then just a surprise though... it's a fairly solid aerial in terms of Sonic.

 

[Kinzer]

Nair is Sonic's Sex kick...or rather quills...Anyway it's a pretty sweet move, it has kill-potential undiminished, and the after hits are good for stopping your opponent short, which might lead to gimp kills. Although it doesn't have too much range, it's still nice how it is probably his fastest/second fastest Aerial move, and definitely the most lagless landing move.

Edit: Hey ROOOOY!, you probably want to mention how the first jab can sometimes lock people in if they trip. I've seen it done, and somebody would probably like to know this if they ever get the chance to Jab-lock.

 

[Browny]

, it's still nice how it is probably his fastest/second fastest Aerial move, and definitely the most lagless landing move.

Equal 2nd fastest (tied with uair) and it has variable landing lag if you fast-fall it or not. i cant pinpoint the frame window where it has less lag but i can be certain it changes depending on the duration of the attack as you land. Also an shff uair has the lowest lag, I swear it autocancels, i cant see a single frame between landing and pulling up a shield.

 

[Kinzer]

Thanks Dj, I wasn't quite sure. Nair is still quite a pretty good move, and I find itself to be a near-lagless lander, although that's probably when I fullhop it.

 

[Chis]

You know, someone should do a video based on this thread showing Sonic's how to use each move.

 

[Sonic-Fan]

You know, someone should do a video based on this thread showing Sonic's how to use each move.

that's a nice idea, anyone with a capture card + skill with sonic up for it?

 

[da K.I.D.]

up air and forward air both start before n air

up air and back air both have less landing lag, up air only because its so easy to AC

n air is good for landing on opponents

 

[ROOOOY!]

Oooh, people are deciding to contribute again?
Eh, I might just blaze through these aerials.
My intention is after I've been through the moves, I'll write up a mini-guide on which moves to use primarily on an "aggressive/defensive X character".
Maybe.
I'll do the write up for nair in a sec.

 

[Sonic-Fan]

yeah, sonic's aerials are his best moves so we don't really need to spend alot of time on them.

 

[ROOOOY!]

Oh yeah. Dair time. If anyone wants to say anything about it.

 

[thecatinthehat]

Dair kill on phantasm/illusion is too sexy.

 

[Chis]

Eidt: Finally a new move.

 

[Camalange]

Large landing lag.

True, but we should all remember the lag can be cancelled from the right heights.
(I obviously know we all know this, but it should still be mentioned since you said "Large landing lag")

 

[Boxob]

Check out my thread.

 

[Camalange]

Check out my thread.

Did it really need it's own thread?
Oh wait a sec...I'm talking to Boxob...
Well, you should really watch what threads you post...unless you LIKE being banned.

 

[Tenki]

Chis is watching now. Like a mod.
Or a Nunnally on a Damocles. >_>

Anyway, D-air is cool.

I've been starting to use laggy D-airs alot more in my game.

In the side-B/down-B thread, one of my more recent edits have a pretty cool usage of D-airs:

- Spotdodge punisher/Air launcher
[Side-B (hop)] > [Doublejump] (optional footstool)+[D-air]

Preferrably land the D-air behind them, so if they shield, you'll still be relatively safe.
It's kind of unsafe, but if it makes contact, D-air will launch your opponent upwards, since they'll be on the ground (footstool should ground them after the side-B hits them up), and it will let you get to the ground+move earlier than if you just tried to double jump+fastfall. This seems to do pretty well if you have a pretty grounded playstyle.

Some people like to spotdodge when you're trying to land at them - D-air's stall-then-fall is good at punishing that kind of reaction.

Another use I've had for it is
Fastfall > double jump > D-air
- counters a shield release and/or other move (baited anti-landing move). In essence, it's a double jump feint+counter.

Can someone test if the 'lagless'/finished D-air has less or equal landing lag to an empty fastfall? I know if you fastfall after you finish a D-air, you'll actually slow down.

 

[da K.I.D.]

if you AC a down air you will have landing lag as if you landed normally...
i.e. you will have more landing lag if you fast fall after the down air

 

[infomon]

I thought Dair auto-fastfall'd...... guess I'm wrong, I can't check now.

 

[Browny]

If you initiate an FF before you dair you will still be fast falling as you leave it. its easiest to see if you go somewhere like new pork city so you can clearly see the difference

 

[Sonic-Fan]

yes its true that lagless d-air is useful but I tend to see alot of sonic newbs use it too much, making it predictable...so sometimes after doing alot of lagless d-airing, I'll just intentionally short hop a d-air on my opponent for an unexpected surprise. It works a lot of the time since the opponent isn't expecting it but you can't follow up with much because of the lag, so I just really use it to get them off me.

 

[Tenki]

yes its true that lagless d-air is useful but I tend to see alot of sonic newbs use it too much, making it predictable...so sometimes after doing alot of lagless d-airing, I'll just intentionally short hop a d-air on my opponent for an unexpected surprise. It works a lot of the time since the opponent isn't expecting it but you can't follow up with much because of the lag, so I just really use it to get them off me.

Spring> forward D-air is like, really punishable when your opponent is expecting it.

It's generally better to do a reverse spring> D-air.

well, if my last post needed a tl;dr:

spindash hop > (footstool) > insta D-air
is cool.

punishes spotdodgers and launches people up. It's pretty good for 60%+ since it launches your opponent pretty high while putting you under them.

 

[Chis]

Chis is watching now. Like a mod.
Or a Nunnally on a Damocles. >_>

...........

No.

Dair

8%

Large landing lag. The being of it (aura part) can semi-spike if the foe is not DIing upwards. If you're high enough it will cancel. A good way of getting back to the ground quickly and has low priority.

 

[Tenki]

I was always under the impression that it had good 'priority', vertically speaking.

I had PD test for me, and frame data seems to somewhat support this statement (until someone actually compares the two), but using an insta D-air and waiting through landing lag seems to be faster than a doublejump (specifically, doublejump out of side-B/down-B) +fastfall.

So if you land the D-air on someone out of a side-B and launch them upwards, and they're a character who can break out of aerial strings easily (eg, Luigi, Samus... etc), then you can kind of 'camp' from the ground instead of having to fastfall with them and risk getting punished for airdodging or getting outprioritized in the air.

 

[Napilopez]

Priority Ehh.

Low priority against what? I think we shouldn't just be deeming moves as low priority or high priority or w/e without really elaborating a bit. Like for example, I've hit snake out of his utilt with it, despite that move's ridiculous all forward and upwards range.

It depends how you use it really, It isnt exactly he most disjointed of moves, and it doesnt come out particularly quickly, but it "travels" quickly, so its hitbox is likely to go past an opponents before they have theirs out, if that makes any sense.

Anyways, I like to use its like tenki said, as a punisher.

As a general note, I think the best way to go for the dair semi spike after launching an opponent offstage is to charge DownB, go into an SDR and then SDJ offstage, because it has such high airspeed, and has better aerial control. SDJ lets you fastfall with more control and stop your aerial momentum more easily. Overall it lets you reach your opponent more quickly and more accurately.

Umm, against slower opponents remember you can go directly into a shield from an autocancelled dair.

I often use shorthop>dair as a get out ma face move when the opponent is pressuring me.

Also, killing with dair is ridiculously entertaining, whether it be with a semi spike, or off the sop of the stage.

 

[Sonic-Fan]

I was always under the impression that it had good 'priority', vertically speaking.

I had PD test for me, and frame data seems to somewhat support this statement (until someone actually compares the two), but using an insta D-air and waiting through landing lag seems to be faster than a doublejump (specifically, doublejump out of side-B/down-B) +fastfall.

So if you land the D-air on someone out of a side-B and launch them upwards, and they're a character who can break out of aerial strings easily (eg, Luigi, Samus... etc), then you can kind of 'camp' from the ground instead of having to fastfall with them and risk getting punished for airdodging or getting outprioritized in the air.

I agree, d-air seems to have high priority vertical-wise...I've knocked many characters out of up smashes using it and even if it has lower priority, I'll sometimes use it anyway and it'll reach them before they can even touch the c-stick.

 

[ROOOOY!]

Oh yeah.
Did more than I thought I would for dair, even though there wasn't much discussion.
You can talk about fair now if you want.

I still need to re-do ftilt, but I can't really think of things to add to it >_>

 

[Chis]

Fair

Damage: 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 4% 14% total

The last spin at the tip of Sonic's head has the knock back. Comes out fast and has good damage. If the opponent ends at Sonic's body (roughly) they'll be free easier and go the other way.

 

[thecatinthehat]

I got a reverse fair stage spike the other day. It was sexy.

 

[Boxob]

I got a reverse fair stage spike the other day. It was sexy.

I two out of two stocked your Sonic with my Link while only taking 50 ish percent.

It was sexier.

<3

 

[thecatinthehat]

I fu

ckin hate link nao lol......

 

[Boxob]

I really should just main him.

He's better than Sonic.

 

[thecatinthehat]

Nah. Your Sonic is too much fun.

Oh yeah, Fair, spam it against Bowser. Add in the occasional bair. You're golden.

 

[Boxob]

Nah. Your Sonic is too much fun.

Oh yeah, Bair, spam it against Bowser. Add in the occasional fair. You're golden.

Fixed. Bair is easier and safer to space on Bowser. And the trajectory fair sends you on is preferable on Bowser.

 

[da K.I.D.]

it makes up about a third of my approaches,

and hitting a forward air into a spincanceled spinshot is sexy as hell and is good for applying pressure
if they shield it you can posibly use invincibility to hit them through their counter attack

f-air to spin cancel is good

 

[thecatinthehat]

Fixed. Bair is easier and safer to space on Bowser. And the trajectory fair sends you on is preferable on Bowser.

Not if your fair hits with the tip. And I like to save the bair in this matchup. Get's bowser killed sooner.

 

[Boxob]

Bair is disjointed, Fair is not.

Bair is safer. No way around that. And fair still has much more application off the stage where it's safer to attack Bowser.

 

[thecatinthehat]

you and your fu

cking boxobairs.