Sonic+ ~UPDATED OP 11/15/09~

[Dark Sonic]

D throw:
- 35 angle from 20

<3 Cape.

10 char

 

[RPGsFTW]

I like the sound of that a lot, Cape. I can't wait for my jabs to connect for real!

 

[BadGuy]

Interesting, I'm curious to see what new tricks sonic will be capable of as a result of this.

 

[Kei_Takaro]

Good show Cape, I'm into trying this new one as ASAP

Also, no one has been able to edit articles? 'cuz I want to try using a Ground Spring that an enemy springs up by simply walking over it
(lol I've been asking this since months ago XD)

 

[cobaltblue]

No one hit ko homing attack? /sarcasm

If yami says the changes are awesome then I can't wait to test'em.

 

[yami_sora]

They are indeed awesome. To the non-Sonic main they will seem inconsequential because they are more like fixes rather than proper buffs. But to the Sonic player they will be noticeable immediately. Especially the up-smash. It's still not a great kill move, you can kill the puffs around 130% or so, but heavier characters would need to be at like 170%. That's fine though, since you can follow after they DI and head up with an up-air. Since the second hit connects better, it makes for a pretty nice combo, just try to bait the air dodge or something first.

The up-throw might take some getting used to since maybe some of your setups have been replaced by new (better) ones, but it won't be hard to relearn it. The down-throw is much better now too, you can't be punished for using it and it's a good throw to use when you want to tech-chase.

The jab connects better, not much to say about that really, it just connects better, which is good. Sonic has a pretty decent jab combo now.

Also I forgot to mention to use Sonic's up and down tilts more. The up-tilt has a surprising amount of priority, and the down-tilt knocks them up into a God awful position and you can follow it up with a back-air at mid-to-high percents.

 

[BadGuy]

As much as i like sonic, and pleased with his current build, i cant help but feel like Metaknight is basically a superior version of sonic, as a hit and run/punishment character, aside from a little speed difference. Meta's new play style pretty much forces him to play like sonic, except his attacks are a lot easier to land, especially his up b which is a reliable ko move, something sonic doesn't have. I'm well aware sonic has his gimps and edgeguards for kos, but once again, metaknight simply does it better, simply because of how accessible his attacks are offstage. Hopefully these new changes will help sonic get some momentum and take back the throne as the hit and run king, cuz metaknight's taken over at the moment.

 

[ThatGuyYouMightKnow]

Probably a ******* comment or w/e, buuuuuuuut....

Why the hell can't you bounce off the spring on the ground? Really doesn't make sense to me.

Feels like he'd benefit from it. Should've been in Brawl. D:

 

[Kei_Takaro]

Probably a ******* comment or w/e, buuuuuuuut....

Why the hell can't you bounce off the spring on the ground? Really doesn't make sense to me.

Feels like he'd benefit from it. Should've been in Brawl. D:

YES!! That^ I have a brother!

I wish we could edit articles!! I've been thinking about it for a long time and I just hope we're able to accomplish that. ^_^

 

[Kei_Takaro]

u gaize dead again? :3

Anyone report on Sonic vs. Kirby matchup?

 

[cobaltblue]

Reminding everyone I only play online

Kirby:

I've got little experience against any real deadly good kirby players. A key thing to watch out for is hammer as that will beat out alot of our attacks. Some kirbies get into the habit of doing rock drop and then unrocking slightly above the ground, this is a DACUS dream for sonic and should be taken with a vengence. Final cutter acts as a paper dragon against sonic as you're fast enough to either run behind kirby and grab him or hell even homing him for being stupid.

Uthrow on kirby is going to become useless very quickly due to how floaty kirby is. My experience has been its better to use it for the early damage, use dthrow for the mid percents, fthrow for mix ups, and just forget about bthrow unless its a small stage.

Kirby's other attacks have short range like us and will clank for the most part. Fsmash however needs to be watched out for as that move is deadly and can come out of no where.

Gimping is more or less going to be off the table. Because of how kirby jumps well timed homing attacks are a viable option and can add pressure but should not be expected to give the ko. The five jumps also means nair guarding will be out as well. On the other hand you shouldn't have problems getting back on the edge as drill kick gimping is neutralized by spring and we have enough recovery options to mix it up if need be.

I'll update if anything else comes to mind or if I actually play a good kirby main.

 

[Kei_Takaro]

Based on my experience against a good Kirby, it isn't safe for me no the ground and in the air.
Kirby has a combo by ?? (forgot) that does heavy damage from startup. My specialty on the air is slightly not in my favor since almost any aerial attack can stop mine.

My style against it might be using spins more and playing defense.
For a secondary counterpick for Kirby, I use Pika which is effective.

 

[yami_sora]

Haha yeah sorry I'm not dead, I was just waiting to offer any matchup advice until that Sonic .pac goes official since I think Sonic will have better options once it does.

 

[MdrnDayMercutio]

I'm really holding off on Sonic talk as well for the new .pac I'm excited for it, though. Wish it would come faster.

 

[yami_sora]

Well assuming it goes official as part of the next build it will be great. A lot of the changes made in this build that I've been able to test out are minor fixes for the most part, so I think Sonic benefits from it the most since many of the fixes are for him.

 

[Kei_Takaro]

@yami_sora, though this might likely never happen, what do you think of a walkable ground spring that activates upon walking to anywhere near it?
^just curious since I feel like it would be a great addition to Sonic's strategies

 

[yami_sora]

Yeah I had talked to Cape about it and he said he didn't know if that was possible from a technical coding standpoint. If it was though I wouldn't mind testing it's utility.

 

[Veril]

that definitely falls into the category of "mysterious experimental change"

you guys know how I feel about those

Yami, you should feel free to bring up the fair change we discussed.

 

[yami_sora]

Okay well I think the fair is much better. I dunno if it needs some oomph though. I dunno, Sonic can go out pretty far, but I still think it's sort of weak.

Basically the change is that now if you hit someone with the fair, the final hit always pushes them out and away. Before there was a problem where if you did it too early, they would pass through Sonic during the attack, and end up going behind him, often times back towards the stage. I brought it up to Cape and Veril's attention and Cape was just like "lol lrn2time" but he was just drunk and stubborn. =p

He and Veril took an actual look at it and tweaked it so it much more often pushes them back out, which is what it's supposed to do as an edge guarding tool.

Again, not so much a buff as it is a fix to the move, but really the words buff and fix are one in the same in this case.

Also Veril why don't you use AIM ever? How am I supposed to bother you? Cape wants to drag you back to my place in April so we can all hang out and stuff.

 

[Veril]

I haven't been on aim this week due to it being midterm week. I'm totally down for visiting again and chilling with you, Cape and OBM. I'd like to stay for a little longer than last time lol, definitely would want to get a tourney in or something if I'm traveling that far. ****'s gonna be amazing either way. Also, I won't lie, I miss Cape and his shenanigans.

My spring break is next week btw. People should visit ME for a change lol


The fair change is basically so that people can't SDI into the reverse hitbox anytime Sonic pushes forward into them with fair. Like with the jab, its not really a straight up "buff" so much as correcting the horrible mistakes that Sakurai made with Sonic.

 

[yami_sora]

Wait so you miss Cape and his shenanigans but you don't miss me when I'm not full of shenanigans? What's up with that?!

Also yeah my spring break is next week too, but it's most likely gonna be awfully busy. Playing catchup academically and spending time with my boyfriend and what not. Even if OBM, my boyfriend, Cape, and I, do go visit you in NY, either way I want all of us to hang out again for more than just an evening and part of a morning. Otherwise how am I gonna get to test the true mettle of my Sonic? I wanna see your Lucas skills now too if you've been able to get anymore play time with him under your belt.

Moving back on topic to Sonic, yeah, I know that it's more of a fix rather than a buff, but like the up-smash the fact that these moves now work as they should can definitely be considered a buff. Speaking of which, are all of these changes, as well as the other things going to be made into an official build anytime soon or are they still being voted on?

 

[Isatis]

I've been too caught up in programming and meetings to even play lately... (though I broke the 5-day streak without Smash by beta testing for shanus) I also need to come up and visit y'all one day lol

I assume they've been accepted already, if not, the up-smash was already passed at least to my knowledge.

 

[Kei_Takaro]

Ugh, I feel like crap after losing to a Pit, not a proper counter, but I was pretty sure I could make up for it (which I didn't ~.~)

 

[Veril]

You can lose to anyone in this game unless one of the death CGs is involved. There are very few truly one-sided matchups aside from those that involve Lucario's up-throw nonsense or olympic tier (80:20s or worse). Pit is legit.

 

[Alphatron]

Is it just me or can Sonic cancel the early frames of his dash attack? And I don't mean with usmash. I'm talking shielding or even crouching(this especially as no other character can crouch out of initial dash).

 

[iLink]

Is it just me or can Sonic cancel the early frames of his dash attack? And I don't mean with usmash. I'm talking shielding or even crouching(this especially as no other character can crouch out of initial dash).

Do you mean his dash attack or just dash? You mentioned both so I'm not sure.

 

[Kei_Takaro]

@Alpha, I'm not sure I noticed the shielding, but I'm pretty sure crouch cancel midframes of Sonic's dash attack are present

 

[Alphatron]

Yeah, I meant just dash attack. He can dash attack right as soon as you start dashing and then crouch out of it's initial frames. I'll have to experiment when I get my game back to see if that's all he can do. Or if he's the only one who can actually do it.

 

[yami_sora]

The Cape recently did some more fiddling with the upsmash the other night and had OBM and I go over it and test it out. It's not perfect, you can't really connect with the last hit unless you do it out of a run, but to be honest, this is probably as good as it's going to get and it's vastly better than it used to be. Plus it can actually kill now at pretty decent percents. Let's hope this all goes in Gold, which hopefully they end up releasing pretty soon. Sonic won't really be moving up as one of the best characters in the game or anything, but he'll definitely be closer to being viable.

 

[CountKaiser]

Why hasn't anyone said anything about Sonic yet?

Anyway, has anyone noticed the gimp angle that the strong hit of nair sends at? I must say, it's quite nice.

 

[ZeonStar]

Im not sure if you guys changed fair or what, but its beast, im ****ing comboing like crazy with that ****.
Upsmash is so great now, I abuse the hell out of it. Sonic seems like he is probably viable now, really loving Sonic+, and definetely making him my secondary.

 

[Revven]

Nair probably was a Sakurai angle previously and is likely the reason why it sucked quite badly when used. Hence the new angle it has.

 

[cobaltblue]

I noticed with Sonic's' down+b (and sideb I think), when I push A to do the jump, it jumps with the attack of the direction I press, or nair if none. If this was unintentional, please fix this, as it makes using it to edgeguard impossible and as far as I see, takes away options as it took a simple 2nd button press to do the aerial normally. If done on purpose, is there any logic behind it?

Also as someone posted earlier, the tumbling thing. Moves aren't exactly causing tumble? Airdodge during tumble gone? I'm not sure exactly myself?

Overall though, I want to thank those that worked on this project!

Taken from the main B+ thread.

I messed around with it and it does have the neat side effect of allowing you to cancel all of sonic's spin moves with a dair at any point. This becomes especially useful near the ground as you now have built in brake for charge and dash.

As for compliments, uair is so much better now and loving the nair/fair. At this point the only thing I could think of that would make sonic better is more disjoint on nair and sliding taunt cancel >_>.

 

[yami_sora]

Haha you guys can totally thank me for pestering Cape and Veril for fixing the fair. Cape also worked very extensively with the upsmash to make it more reliable and more powerful. I told you guys you'd be happy with the new Sonic right? =p

 

[RPGsFTW]

Ok, quick positive thing about Sonic:

I ****in love sending enemies more horizontally with his Fsmash. I don't know if it had a Sakurai Angle on it before, but I love watching it boost enemies across the field. It's too cool.

Also, his jab string is an actual combo now, right?

 

[Thunderhorse+]

Yes to both.

His filt, fsmash, and bair all had their Sakurai angles removed.

 

[RPGsFTW]

Yes to both.

His filt, fsmash, and bair all had their Sakurai angles removed.

Yay! <3

10 Yays.

 

[Veril]

F-tilt didn't have the sakurai angle removed.

Sonic taunt canceling D: that would be painfully annoying...

 

[cobaltblue]

F-tilt didn't have the sakurai angle removed.

Sonic taunt canceling D: that would be painfully annoying...

You're too slow to fsmash followed by rapid speed break dancing is worth it.

 

[Kei_Takaro]

lol, I find it weird everytime I chase Falcon out of the stage he always manages to hit me with his upB, which is pretty annoying after a while since it happens almost everytime he recovers. Spring gimping is pretty fun on Spacies I must say