Sonic+ ~UPDATED OP 11/15/09~

[Kei_Takaro]

I'm guessing I missed some pages back, but can anyone tell me the full utulization of Sonic's throws?

 

[Sagen du Smash]

Sonic's HA (Neutral B) is still GARBAGE. It doesn't need to be a kill move but for the love of humanity kill the horrible ATROCIOUS lagg, it needs like 5x more ISIA because what is in now doesn't work 98% of the time, especially when the move is used in an upward direction. Please PLEASE someone REMOVE THE LAG AND MAKE HA SUCK LESS. Thank you...

 

[Perfect Chaos]

Or...you can not post this twice on two different threads (especially after it's been stated numerous times that there won't be any more character changes for 6 months), as posting it twice is not going to help getting a change. And instead of spamming HA all the time, maybe you can learn to "suck less" by actually using it only when you're sure it'll hit. X (perhaps you've heard of him...) wreaks with Sonic in Brawl+, and he considers Brawl+'s HA "too good". He's a little over-exaggerating, but when one uses it effectively and always hit with it, it does seem very good...

Normally, I don't post comments that sound up-front like this, but this just irks me...

 

[yami_sora]

I'm inclined to agree, the best thing you can do with the HA is use it in an edge-guarding situation where you are absolutely sure you are going to hit. Learning how the HA works and how it locks on to people relative to Sonic's position is crucial for this. I would recommend experimenting with it a bit until you get the hang of it. I personally don't think it's a very good move, but when used very sparingly, I've scored some surprise KOs with it.

 

[cobaltblue]

I'm guessing I missed some pages back, but can anyone tell me the full utulization of Sonic's throws?

Fthrow: Disruption. In mid ranges you can link it to fair or Uair depending on DI.

Uthrow: If you don't know what this is used for stop playing Sonic now. Also good for KOs on medium to small stages at ~150 damage.

Bthrow: Used to get gimpable opponents off the stage. Can probably lead to other moves but I always find the other throws a better option.

Dthrow: Get people off the stage.

 

[DotheDiddyMonkeyDance]

I think sonic is a beast now due to it feels like you can combo with him better etc. Unfortantley I do like how his up smash is currently the only thing that irks me about it is when you go to hit the upsmash some characters don't get caught in it right away and will do 1% damage. But then again its the timing thing and Im still sort of new to sonic in B+ my self.

 

[MdrnDayMercutio]

Homing Attack is a move the Sonic boards were studying early on. When you understand how to use it, it's not so bad for edge guarding and for a surprise mix up.

 

[Bandit]

His Usmash has ridiculous power right now. Killing heavies under 100% when the final hit is landed.

 

[cobaltblue]

Thats if you land a clean hit though. More often than not you will knock the opponent into standing hit animation. Although this isn't completely fatal since can either titlt, run, or grab after this happens.

 

[Bandit]

Landing it on opponents who are in the air is far easier than grounded opponents from the testing that has gone on so far.

 

[goodoldganon]

I don't get hit by it too much in 1v1s but maybe I'm playing with a bad Sonic. I've been able to push out times I know it is coming and I always make sure to save my jump and not use it right away. I know Sonic is gonna try and follow with the spring so I try and aerial him away or wiggle and air dodge. As long as I save my jump in the air I can bait for U-smashes. The move seems easy to bust through once the invinci frames are gone.

Where his Up-smash wrecks is in a team match (and I guess lol FFAs). Sonic can cross the board before the other player notices and snatch an easy U-smash kill.

 

[Veril]

The only consistent way to hit with the upsmash with a clean hit (and even those are sometimes escapable) at KO% is to predict an airdodge. WHICH IS A SETUP FOR F***ING EVERYTHING. Like punishing airdodges is something unique to Sonic's up-smash. >.<

I already gave KO% for this and other up-smashes, comparative frame analysis, and other data like the fact that it is automatically escapable when hitting certain grounded characters (and with SDI for airborne characters). Yet it is still coming up. Props to someone who has done any testing on this move I haven't already done better.

Do I really have to do one of the retardedly detailed analysis posts (I'll need at least an hour devoted to that if this is the case)? It'll just get covered up by short posts that add nothing new to the discussion.

 

[cobaltblue]

Landing it on opponents who are in the air is far easier than grounded opponents from the testing that has gone on so far.

Question, what stage have you seen it kill heavies on under 100%? The earliest I've killed with it has been a zelda player who was right at the 100%ish mark on battlefield. On the flip side I've had snake survive it at the 120% mark.

I'm also kinda wondering what you mean by easier to hit opponents from the air than ground remark. The same can be said about a large variety of characters including Zelda, Snake, Lucario, etc.

 

[Krautrock]

Veril, I don't think anyone is really complaining - just acknowledging the KO power. Sonic isn't exactly overpowered.

 

[cobaltblue]

^Exactly. Its also fun to know how people are using the move and people's view of it who don't main sonic.

 

[yami_sora]

Yeah Veril I don't think anyone was complaining, just discussing. There's no need for you to write some huge essay that most people are going to ignore anyways.

 

[Wavebuster]

Question, what stage have you seen it kill heavies on under 100%? The earliest I've killed with it has been a zelda player who was right at the 100%ish mark on battlefield. On the flip side I've had snake survive it at the 120% mark.

Snake is one of the heaviest, while also falling very fast. Killing Snake off the top at 120% is a pipe dream for most characters. o.o

 

[yami_sora]

So uh guys are you all still alive? What do you think of Sonic in Gold now that it's all fixed and patched?

 

[Machiavelli.CF]

i think he's got potential with his wide variation in combos available

 

[Kei_Takaro]

I've been away, I haven't patched mine yet so nothing up my mind ~.~

Can't wait though.
Yami, can you go OP now? I wanna see progress :D *salutes

 

[cobaltblue]

So uh guys are you all still alive? What do you think of Sonic in Gold now that it's all fixed and patched?

Perfect. HA is somewhat viable as a mix up, fair fix allows for pushing the opponent to the opposite end of the screen, and the new stage boundries give sonic killing power.

He still retains his cons of being rocked by disjoint characters like Zelda but he is more than viable at this point.

 

[yami_sora]

I'm gonna run through another gauntlet with OBM this summer, from Mario down to Snake. As I play through each set I'm gonna be taking notes and discussing things with him. My goal is to make a pretty comprehensive list of notes for each match-up.

Keep in mind that it will be just my opinion and just my play-style of Sonic, vs. OBM. OBM is a fantastic player with a lot of talent, and he's a better player than I am with a good amount more experience, but it's still just the two of us, hanging out and playing the game. Still, I really hope it helps you guys out. When we discuss things we'll try to think a bit outside of the box and our personal play-styles and see what other options each character has.

 

[cobaltblue]

I'd like to hear your results on Falcon. I'm constantly told the match is about even but it just seems the guy can screw you over if he gets in even one hit and his moves are perfect at keeping space between you and him on shield.

 

[Kei_Takaro]

I'd like to hear your results on Falcon. I'm constantly told the match is about even but it just seems the guy can screw you over if he gets in even one hit and his moves are perfect at keeping space between you and him on shield.

Those SH Aerials of CF feel very safe as an approach, though I have a bit of trouble barely touching him in most instances.
Though my stage counter would be Wario Ware, and most likely avoid FD

 

[yami_sora]

I agree, Falcon's nair does make it difficult to approach him. Falcon is superior in the KO department and techchasing department, but Sonic wins in edge-guarding and recovery. If you can keep Falcon under pressure and not be overwhelmed by his approaches then you should be fine. Still, I'd say the matchup is just slightly in favor of Captain Falcon.

 

[Kei_Takaro]

Though I'd like to share this anyway, in any situation I knock him off stage, he tries recover, I chase off the ledge, and I walk into the succesion of CF's UpB. LOL this happens alot, also a smart CF would now know how to dodge the spring gimp though

 

[yami_sora]

Yeah you do have to watch out for that. I've been grabbed a few times out of the air too. A smart Falcon would know how to dodge the spring gimp, but a smarter Sonic would know how to make it a death sentence whenever possible.

 

[Sagen du Smash]

Sonic feels good as of now. My only question, what buffer do most Sonic users use? I use 100

 

[Kei_Takaro]

Sonic feels good as of now. My only question, what buffer do most Sonic users use? I use 100

I'm from 30-40, also you must be accustomed to the vBrawl I guess, I might try that again lol

 

[yami_sora]

I've been trying 50 lately and that seems pretty good. Now that I'm in the backroom I'm gonna do my best to make sure the game is as fun and balanced as possible.

 

[Sagen du Smash]

I tried 60 and won a wifi match with Sonic! It was beautiful, but I'll try 50 anyway.

 

[RPGsFTW]

Sonic feels good as of now. My only question, what buffer do most Sonic users use? I use 100

I've honestly used all 0-100. Right now though I just use 300%, I know 100+ is all the same lol, just because I can. I mostly need the buffer for klaw hopping as Bowser.

 

[FireBall Stars]

I use 0, just don't like buffer lol. I guees I play Melee to often to like buffer.

Maybe just don't like it. Whatever.

 

[MdrnDayMercutio]

Melee had a Four Frame Buffer didn't it?

 

[Zero_Gamer]

Yes and it was very annoying when you accidentally do a get-up attack. >_>

 

[Kei_Takaro]

Melee had a Four Frame Buffer didn't it?

Just being curious as to how you arrived with facts like that, teh moar I know lol

 

[Dark Sonic]

Melee had a Four Frame Buffer didn't it?

Melee had no universal buffer.

Getup attacks, getup rolls, and jumping as soon as hitstun is over, could be buffered. Rolls and spotdodges could be buffered by holding the c-stick.

The more you know.

 

[Zega]

Hey idk where to really post this comment, but is there a pro sonic out there? just curious. Like who would be the world's best sonic player atm?

 

[Kei_Takaro]

There are alot of pro Sonics here, though I'm not sure I know any from the Brawl+ ranks
From vBrawl, Espy/Puffball64 and Tenki are my favorites
and I know that Kojin has taken up Brawl-

 

[cobaltblue]

B+ pro would formally be Dark Sonic.

Haven't really seen any sonic mains from B+ tournament results.