Sonic The Hedgehog: Community Matchup thread

['V']

I'm sure I'm not up-to-date with any metagames other than Zelda and R.O.B., especially seeing as how I don't play Brawl very often. But I've found Sonic to be pretty interesting recently, so I've been giving him a shot at learning.

I'll be lurking here for a while.

 

[Roxas1988]

UGH!!! I cant believe MK is standing in the way of my victories. I always bring it down to one stock each. But nooooooo. You got my vote to Ban effin nadoe Spammers.

 

[Roxas1988]

I'm sure I'm not up-to-date with any metagames other than Zelda and R.O.B., especially seeing as how I don't play Brawl very often. But I've found Sonic to be pretty interesting recently, so I've been giving him a shot at learning.

I'll be lurking here for a while.

Its good to have you aboard the sonic community. You won't be dissapointed. And of course Sonic would repay you in return.

 

[Kinzer]

UGH!!! I cant believe MK is standing in the way of my victories. I always bring it down to one stock each. But nooooooo. You got my vote to Ban effin nadoe Spammers.

You shouldn't want to have to go as far as to want MK banned.

If you're having problems with him, I don't want to see how you're going to react when you get pitted against a Lucario who knows how to play this MU correctly. That's just one example BTW, there might be other MUs just as problematic or worse than MK can do to you.

TL;DR playing a (good) Meta Knight is good practice.

Super important edit:

Generally tipper f-smash is his earliest KO option but also one of his worst, he has others though, uptilt (got a wierd non-tippered hitbox with great kill power) up-smash, downsmash, tipper nair, dolphin slash, and tipper bair.

This guy, who is known to be a Marth main/enthusiast, just mentioned all/most of the kill moves in Marth's arsenal.

Good thing I did some personal research and took back my word about UTilt not killing.

Not once was dancing Blade mentioned in this post. The only thing that's edited in that quote BTW is just cutting out the parts that weren't related, otherwise it's word for word.

I was going to go about getting into the game and looking into that, but you know, somebody much more knowledgeable/dedicated to the character did the dirtywork for me I believe. When I can, just because I like to hold as much of an unbiased opinion as possible (and because I like to see things for myself), I will eventually do the testing myself, but I can rest easy knowing the expected result is to come.

KID even nitpicked about this in his TL/DR post about how he's a big-baby and was going to ignore me, so he won't be able to read this and look like an idiot. Oh well, again I really don't care, it's not my loss.

Comments/QQ/ensue-drama? Anybody?

 

[Mr. Johan]

MK has not been much of a problem for me. It's just a matter of picking the right moves at the right time, and run away from the heavy hits. Of course, that applies to every character, but more so to MK than anyone else. Tilts are great friends in that matchup.

Not once was dancing Blade mentioned in this post.

Isn't Dancing Blade used more for damage racking and refreshing other moves anyway? I've never been killed by the DB at any rate.

It's also possible to grab/shieldgrab Marth out of the DB in between the 3 and 4th hit, IIRC. I know that you can do it if the 4th hit is angled downwards - the 4 hit sword jab - but I think you can do it in between any of the 4th hit's angles.

Out of Marth's kill moves listed, the ones I've been watching out for are the tipper n-air, Dolphin Slash, and the U-tilt, because they're not as telegraphed as the others, as well as being very quick. It's very hard for me to approach Marth when those moves are available at that particular moment. Easiest thing I would say to do is bait one of the moves with a Spin Cancel, or running up and shielding, and proceed from there.

Of course, that applies to almost everything Sonic does.

 

[Kinzer]

Isn't Dancing Blade used more for damage racking and refreshing other moves anyway? I've never been killed by the DB at any rate.

It's also possible to grab/shieldgrab Marth out of the DB in between the 3 and 4th hit, IIRC. I know that you can do it if the 4th hit is angled downwards - the 4 hit sword jab - but I think you can do it in between any of the 4th hit's angles.

Out of Marth's kill moves listed, the ones I've been watching out for are the tipper n-air, Dolphin Slash, and the U-tilt, because they're not as telegraphed as the others, as well as being very quick. It's very hard for me to approach Marth when those moves are available at that particular moment. Easiest thing I would say to do is bait one of the moves with a Spin Cancel, or running up and shielding, and proceed from there.

Of course, that applies to almost everything Sonic does.

I love you, will you marry me?

 

[Camalange]

You Are A Moron If You Honestly Think Dancing Blade Won't Ever Kill You.

 

[Kinzer]

Mou...

But yeah, I don't want to bring this up again until I personally do some tests/runs.

 

[Camalange]

no offence, just stating facts.


:D

i hate this thread, lol. also screw your tests Kinzer, just play a semi-decent marth and you'll know.

 

[Kinzer]

Nobody plays Marth anymore (where you @ Dannykat?), let alone anybody local who can play him well, how else do you want me to get data other than reading what other people say?

You could say I could go to the Marth boards... but I always doubt what other people say unless I see it done, either in-person or in a video. Even if they had all the data, there is a serious lack of video guides. I'm more of a visual learner than having to memorize. Maybe that's why I don't like school so much...

I like facts, even if they're cruel. That's probably the reason why it doesn't really bother me.

 

['V']

So I messed around with Sonic and read some of the stuff here today and I was wondering:

What's the most effective way to try to use Sonic's U-smash invincibilty? Can you use it in a tech chase perhaps? And what characters would it be best to try to use it against?

And thanks Roxas for the welcome.

 

[Umby]

Dancing Blade Kills with DB4 Red and DB4 Blue, but most likely only when tipped, fresh, and in the case of DB4 Blue, on lighter characters. It's not really a reliable kill move though. DB in general is used for damage racking and punishment. The killing part is just a bonus. That's probably why it wasn't mentioned.

So I messed around with Sonic and read some of the stuff here today and I was wondering:

What's the most effective way to try to use Sonic's U-smash invincibilty? Can you use it in a tech chase perhaps? And what characters would it be best to try to use it against?

And thanks Roxas for the welcome.

Using Sonic's usmash invincibility would be a weird achivement. I suppose if you timed it to destroy proximity mines on platforms or use the arc to hop over things, that would be viable, but it's probably a lot easier to try and abuse the invincibility frames on Spin Dash.

On further thought, maybe the extra hitbox duration on hitting things like the statues on Castle Siege might work.

 

['V']

Sounds good, I just thought it might come in handy against something like a get-up attack or a grab, but with things like that, that'd be pretty cool too. It doesn't seem very practical at all, but I'd like to keep it an option.

 

[Kinzer]

Up-smash invincibility is like what, 1-frame?

Yet I think what makes its magic work is the major disjoint.

I've been able to time my UpSmash to beat Mr. G&W's KeyBlade/Dair.

 

['V']

Yeah it's definitely a hard risk, but the rewards are good. I timed one yesterday to beat out a get-up attack, so I was curious if it had other ways of being awesome.

 

[Browny]

KINZER THIS IS VERY SIMPLE

Stand marth next to Sonic at about 150%, use dancing blade (up variant, side variant if near edge of stage) or uptilt

end

 

[da K.I.D.]

Cam and DJB need to get like me.

Im in a much happier place now

 

[Dark 3nergy]

It's also possible to grab/shieldgrab Marth out of the DB in between the 3 and 4th hit, IIRC.

yes ive grabbed marth during that part of the DB animation

You Are A Moron If You Honestly Think Dancing Blade Won't Ever Kill You.

yes i have been killed by DB before, if he starts it and moves you toward the ledge and the last hit connects, it can KO you

Nobody plays Marth anymore (where you @ Dannykat?)

he is busy being a furry

 

[Kinzer]

Cam and DJB need to get like me.

Im in a much happier place now

LOL@youbeinginheaven/dead. I'm overall more happy this way too.

Infractions...in my posts...?

Nah, I guess nobody wants to talk about Peach (at least not now), nobody is interested. I'm still willing to discuss anybody else if anybody wants too...

 

[vidwatcher4ever]

well if we could get dark pch. or someone in here it would help......

 

[Kinzer]

Oh my God no, just have the MU as 6-4/65-35 and call it a day.

Now I know why nobody wanted to do anything more.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

well if we could get dark pch. or someone in here it would help......

Do
Not
Want

PLEASE

 

['V']

If I'm able to find time to play tonight, I'm sure I'll play at least one Peach. I'll have a beginning Sonic insight of the matchup, but it'll be a good start I'm sure.

 

[vidwatcher4ever]

well, i'm sorry to bring it up?......O_O

 

[Joshkip]

Up-smash invincibility is like what, 1-frame?

Yet I think what makes its magic work is the major disjoint.

I've been able to time my UpSmash to beat Mr. G&W's KeyBlade/Dair.

reveal your secrets!

i get roflstomped by g&w's

 

[infomon]

but ur sig is amazing, so iz ok

 

[Napilopez]

Hey guys!

Just posting to say you are all silly for thinking Marth is Sonic's toughest matchup(or even just a significantly disdvantageous one)

<3,
Nape

 

[ShadowLink84]

KINZER THIS IS VERY SIMPLE

Stand marth next to Sonic at about 150%, use dancing blade (up variant, side variant if near edge of stage) or uptilt

end

You can DI out of the third hit and avoid the fourth hit.

If you are hit by the 4th, DI better or use that down B to momentum.
It really should NOT be killing Sonic.
Uptilt is a fa superior killing move at such percents than dancing blade ever will be.

And frankly, I find it to be extremely stupid, that anyone would think Marth would have a significant advantage on Sonic.

Play it like you would Metaknght, space him.
Marth is actually weaker than Metaknight in terms of offense and SOnic does have the tools to deal with Marth's defensive behavior as well.


Edit: As for Peach 6-4 Peach. Peach can cause him some problems but he isn't getting *****. Its winnable.

 

[B.A.M.]

I completely concur with the above statement. I do believe the problem with our supposed bad matchups is the fact that Sonic's dont slow down and space. GW if you know where his lag is you can punish, same with Marth. Those two characters also love to sh aerial. Punish the short hop before the aerial; its pretty telegraphed majority of the time. Sonic's walk is broken lol; he moves pretty fast and along with true pivots and DDP you should be able to evade and punish very effectively. Walk/Run -based game untill you notice their idiosyncrasies, then SD/SC when appropiate. Marth cant build a perfect wall simply with his disjointed aerials and neither can G&W in my honest opinion.

Greatest tip for Marth and G&W, let them swing first lol. We can dash shield for crying out loud. Do you know how that badly that can mess up spacing? They have perfect spacing? so what u can move in and still shield in time. Sonic has the ability to rock spacing due to OoS IDA on the ground and SDSC for aerials. Just cuz youre sonic doesnt mean u have to run run all the time. If you're not good at Sonic's advanced movements you really should walk more.

Also understanding priority to know what attacks we can beat out is great too, so when we evade we can know we can run back and punish the opponent WHILE theyre performing an attack.

 

[Camalange]

Hey guys!

Just posting to say you are all silly for thinking Marth is Sonic's toughest matchup(or even just a significantly disdvantageous one)

<3,
Nape

Thank you.

 

[infomon]

Napz iz alivez!!!?

10sillymarfas

 

[Kinzer]

Is anybody else besides me finding Lucario to be a more unwinnable fight than G&W... anybody...?

Meh... anyway.

reveal your secrets!

i get roflstomped by g&w's

You just gotta have dat shine.

...Seriously though, I don't know what to tell you, except practice spacing, you have major disjoint, a shrunken hurtbox, invincibility frame (no plural lol), and if I didn't know better, as Sonic jumps he briefly extends his USmash hitbox for the rising part of the jump upwards (don't quote me on this).

 

[Jim Morrison]

Oh god.
When fighting GaW, you don't approach sideways. You charge a down-B, do instant SDJ, double jump and just WTFGTFO D-air with lag right on his head while he bairs. Or spring. There's no chance for sideways approaches.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Just put it at 55-45 or 60-40 Peach I don't know which it is you guys probably know better than I do

Peach is gay, Sonic is...well Sonic is awesome but still annoying to fight against. Getting past Peach's Floating crap will suck if she refuses to approach you and pulls off lagless rubbish on your sheild and pokes and jabs and stuff. Use Bair as Sonic but just be careful since Peach can hit you with her Fair if you miss or just chase you on the floor. Just punish her with Bair and stuff. Recover as best you can, Sonic's recovery is pretty screwy vs Peach anyway, you can die early if you're not careful

DI diagonally upwards against her stuff, she kills horizontally with Fair and the like. Chis is stupid and lives to about 190% if we're both playing well and even if he does mess up a bit he normally survives to around 160%, something stupid like that. Getting a hit on either side is really hard since their range his pretty even and I've found landing a kill move on Sonic is ridiculous since he moves so bloody fast but when coming down with my Fair on his sheild, provided I pull away a bit before and after the Fair comes out Sonic can't grab Peach but then Sonic can just roll away and run away and no one takes any damage and ARRGGGGGHHHHH

Turnips are silly, catch them if she's intent on spamming them, they're not fantastic vs Sonic anyway. I mean, they're Turnips so they're still really good but they lose their effectiveness when Sonic can run up and grab you, probably even if Peach does Turnip slide. If she has got a Turnip out watch her attack pattern and smack her or just wait until it's gone. Glide tossing can be used to punish Sonic's Bairs so be wary of that

If your Peach is silly or a risk taker, get ready to angle an F Smash up when she's recovering and coming towards you with a Fair, it'll probably smack her in the face before the Fair hits you. I've died a few times in the past to this and got a few Peach's doing this as well. Also, if your Peach mispaces her Fair or Jabs, grab her. Grab her when the Fair hits your sheild before she jabs and if she does jab, spotdodge if she goes for a 2nd one or grab her inbetween, judge the distance first so you don't get slapped. Don't go running towards her like a crazy fool cause her D Smash will slip you up. And don't try hit her out of a Fair if she SH Fair's by jumping off the ledge, shes invincible and you'll get hit


Neither side can kill very easily at all when playing carefully meaning this match will go on forever. Space for all your worth and if Peach is doing the same...well, you'll be there for a long time

 

[Jim Morrison]

Counterpick stages?
I'd think YI would form a solid approach with ISDR, Peach can't just float above you and D-air you out of it, or nair, or use ground aerials. Yoshi's Island and Delfino. But I always pick Delfino.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Yoshi's Island makes me cry myself to sleep

The terrain means she can't ground Float and mess up your recovery when if you land and the slanted ledge means she can't SH Fair invincibly from the ledge since she just faceplants into the side

I hate the place

 

[fraudster111]

I have this grudge match with a pro sonic friend of mine. Back last year he used to pwn my gnw with upthrow>spring>uair. That killed really early. Later on in the game i got better with d.i and stuff. So i always d.i his upthrow. He still beats me tho because of my poor spacing. But NOW his fsmash cant kill me as much because i can d.i and bucketbrake REALLY good. I counter his spindash approaches with my bair( i used to try and sheild grab it lol). But i think only like half the frames of the bair actually outpriotizes his spindash. IDK. He claimed he made up this move but i said BULL****. He f throws me, then watches my landing and quickly runs and up bs right when im about to land. So i get bounced up by the spring and quickly bairs for the kill before i know WTF is going on. He calls it "skydragon" hes such a *** lol. I still love him tho(no homo) Wow i forgot the point of this post.

 

[Camalange]

...cool story, bro.

 

[da K.I.D.]

lol your friend didnt come up with it. that move is known as the anthinus combo, after a sonic player of the same name, who came out with a combo video like 2 months after the game came out.

50% of that video consisted of a few different moves that result in the "make the opponent land on your grounded spring and follow them with a killing aerial" effect

 

[fraudster111]

lol your friend didnt come up with it. that move is known as the anthinus combo, after a sonic player of the same name, who came out with a combo video like 2 months after the game came out.

50% of that video consisted of a few different moves that result in the "make the opponent land on your grounded spring and follow them with a killing aerial" effect

LOLOMAO. Seriously, He was feeling pretty good about himself claiming he's the only sonic that does that move. Can i have a link to that combo vid. Imma roost his fat *** when i show him the move he "created" was only patented 2months after the game.