Sonic The Hedgehog: Community Matchup thread

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Ah sorry SS8677 another time k?
I'm writing this on my Wii but I want to say after more consideration that I'd be happy with 60:40 Peach. I thought 65:35 was steep and I'm glad that it the match up isn't that
Sonic needs to keep his distance. Don't throw yourself in. Both sides need good mix ups to keep their opponent guessing. Stop really obvious Floating Dairs with a Bair. Don't spam ASC as a fakeout. Peach also has chances to pull up Turnips when Sonic is in the air (at some distance of course). Sonic's F Smash is too good when Peach hasn't got her Float

I've changed my mind about a few things but I'll give more input tomorrow. Chis might explain stuff now

 

[JayBee]

i'll agree with that.

 

[sasook]

Hello fellow members of our alliance ^_^

The Link boards are discussing this matchup - on AiB, of course. Hope to see you there, your input is appreciated.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

CAMMY! Get over there.

 

[Chis]

Come back to smash boards then we'll talk <3

 

[Camalange]

I'm coming.

</3AiB

 

[Lawz.]

I'm coming.

</3AiB

your too slow

 

[Chis]

Now it's Rob. Discuss.

 

[Camalange]

ROB...again?

Introduction

Although the former Robotic Operating Buddy is made up of plastic, never saves any princesses, or can break the sound barrier, he makes his debut in the Smash series as a Nintendo AllStar with Brawl’s release. ROB, who was once a mere toy, now makes a very impressive mark on Brawl with his advanced camping style, great recovery, and long ranged, fast attacks overall. He can be quite a pest and seem like a brick wall at first, but once you understand and learn how to punish his biggest weaknesses, the match up becomes much easier and is certainly winnable.

Behaviour:

-ROB is a very campy character, so he’ll generally stay on one part of the stage, keeping you at bay with lasers and gyros. He should very rarely approach Sonic in this match up.

-ROBs recovery works on a fuel system. When he runs out of fuel, he careens downwards to his death…however he has quite a lot of fuel. He can also do aerials while still flying. Most ROBs will recover high and try to bait you offstage, then just punish with Fair/Nair. Sometimes even launch gyros or shoot lasers from a distance. Anything to insure a safe landing spot.

-ROB has a great projectile game, but his close combat isn’t to be laughed at either. Dsmash is a ridiculously fast punisher and will be used practically after every spotdodge. His tilts come out quick and have good range, so be wary. Utilt is great for juggling, and Dtilt/Ftilt are good for keeping space. Dtilt is fast, has low knockback, and a high trip ratio very good for starting up combos. Dtilt/Ftilt are very similar, and have very low cool down.

Commonly Used Moves:

Spotdodge/Dsmash – Almost always used after a spotdodge. It has a very fast start-up, hits multiple times and protects from all sides of his body (except for above) and has very little cool down. It’s more of a punisher, so it won’t be used to kill, it’ll be very stale. Make sure to shield all of the hits, and be wary if punishing OoS…remember, little cool down...don't try to beat them out.

-Lasers/Gyros – ROB doesn’t wait around and “charge” his lasers. He will pester you with the skinny beam and usually follow up with a Gyro. In addition, ROB has a nice glidetoss, so if you see one coming, make sure to shield the gyro, and hold shield to avoid any kind of “glide toss follow up”. (Keep in mind Sonic has a great glide toss too. Use this to your advantage. It’s very important to know how to control gyros) Dash attack picks up gyros (but not bananas lol) but make sure not to try and pick it up with a jab if it’s a “charged” gyro.

-Nair – Mainly used for punishing airdodges. It’s also used commonly if baiting you to approach from the air, then sneaking out a Nair. It starts up very slow, so try to beat it out early…but this move is very disjointed upon release, so don’t fall for the trap. It has huge range and multiple hits.

-Fair – Very high priority aerial, with good range. If ROB goes for a “Wall of Pain” DI AWAY FROM HIM. Trust me, don’t DI towards the stage…common sense, but it’s very easy to forget when you’re getting ZOMGRAPED.

-Bair – It’s similar to Sonic’s in the sense that it hits both behind, and in front of him. It can lead into, or end strange combos…very disjointed, but has pretty high start up lag.

How to Win:

Now, ROB seems to just be a down right prick, eh? Well, now’s the time to exploit the weaknesses!

UPAIR AND ASC!

Now…let me explain myself.

-Low Aerial Acceleration – ROB is very slow in the air. Sonic is very fast. Bam. ROB’s fastest aerials are Fair/Uair. Don’t try to beat out ROB from above him. If you’re coming from beneath ROB, Fair is avoidable too. Use one of your own rising Fairs.

-Large Hitbox – ROB is a very bulky character, and his head is one of his weakest points. It can only be protected with Fsmash or Lasers, which come out slow. ASC can **** ROB as a punishment move, you can even sometimes get a max 3 ASC hits.

-Put it all together and…? – ROB is slow in the air…and his all time biggest weakness is from below him. He can only protect himself with Dair and Nair, which both have very slow start up lag. Abuse the living hell out of this. When approaching ROB in the air, poke through with Fair. Fair is a great move in this matchup, but the biggest one is Uair. Even if ROB spaces Dair and gets the attack out, Sonic’s Uair, if properly spaced, will BEAT OUT ROB’S DAIR. Sonic will even look like he was hit and in the flames, but ROB’s Dair is one of his few not broken aerials. Sonic’s Uair will destroy ROB from beneath him.

Although you would think that Sonic would then **** ROB offstage if he trys to recover, you would be wrong. ROB can pretty much Fair/Lasor his way back and other stupid things, but here’s the thing. ROB is vulnerable above you ON stage, but is vulnerable below you OFF stage. Why is this? ROB has low aerial acceleration (REMEMBER) so if he’s trying to rise up to the stage, Sonic can use a falling Fair, Dair, or even go for Bair stage spikes and be moderately safe, and putting ROB in an uncomfortable place.

And most importantly...

-DON'T TRY AND BEAT OUT THE TILTS -ROB will **** you from up close. It is very important to stay out of tilt range, but be close enough to camp you. We'll call it the "dead zone" (*copyright of KID, lol) It is very important that Sonic knows how to weave in and out of this dead zone to apply pressure and keep ROB on his toes. Remember, try and get ROB in the air to fight him, and attack from below. Pressure, pressure, pressure!

Recommended Stages:

Battlefield – Rainbow Cruise

Matchup Summary:

This match will have a huge emphasis on how well you use aerials, and how strong your edgeguarding/gimping game is. Not only that, it will test your skills at weaving in and out of midrange. Sonic is one of the few characters that actually has a chance gimping ROB, and harassing offstage. ROB’s projectiles are still a pain in the ***, and his tilts will outrange/**** yours, so Sonic is still most definitley at a disadvantage. ROB is also much safer than Sonic in ALMOST every situation, so Sonic must put himself at risk in order to be successful…now that’s for you the player to get creative with. Remember...mid range is where you fight ROB onstage. Get him in the air.

60:40 ROB

____

Let's never discuss ROB again.

 

[Kinzer]

I just want to QFT Camal on everything he said, and say that trying to recover with R.O.B. camping the edge is one helluva b****.

Seriously I don't know what Nintendo was thinking when he put the toy in Brawl, and fighting him is a pain when you have to put a heavy emphasis on your aerial game.

 

[Darth Waffles]

(everything above)

gg.

I should use dtilt/jab more than I do against you

 

[Tenki]

what's awesome is how ROB can outprioritize OR force an airdodge with U-air at such a range so that he can land to cancel it and still be able to punish your landing if you airdodge.

<3

 

[Browny]

spinshot ftw?

 

[da K.I.D.]

i will say cam is wrong on some things tho

1. leaving a gyro on the ground and ignoring it IS A BAD IDEA. Rob already camps enough and leaving a gyro on the ground is only creating even more stage control for him, which only exascerbates the camping problem. you need to some how get rid of them.

2.id like to point out that when attempting to hit rob from below, its good to know that rob will proly nair to get out of comboes cause it has redic priority, and that they will do that almost no matter what angle, especially since it hits twice below him.

3. Ill also say that you are HIGHLY understating robs physical game. Because dealing with the spam isnt even as annoying as dealing with robs physical game. Id say theres a distance from 2 to 4 sonic lengths in front of rob where sonic GETS ABSOLUTELY UNEQUIVACABLY *****!! Because its abot a range where sonic cant reach rob but rob can d tilt, jab and f tilt sonic. And since all those moves are well ranged and rediculously fast, it should be sonics number 1 priority to stay outside of that area no matter what.

4. Because of number 3. the majority of this match is highly dependant on how good sonic is at weaving in and out of robs range without getting stuck in that "dead zone"

 

[infomon]

What's the deal with those stupid gyros? We can't seem to pick them up unless they're really really spinning slowly, ie. they're near disappear-time. Unless you can like, airdodge-grab them off the ground even while they're spinning fast? Does that work?

I hate those things, I get wrecked by them. I'm like "ooh a gyro!" "ouch, that hurt!" "ooh, a gyro!" "ouch!!" and I never learn my lesson lol.

 

[Tenki]

i'm not too sure myself, but dash attack seems to do fine most of the time.

also, you can't iSDR through a gyro.

:[

 

[da K.I.D.]

theyre just like nanners, if you time it wrong trying to pick it up, you either trip or take damage

 

[Tenki]

Well, the thing is, if the gyro is strong (in ROB's control), you can't just stand next to it and hit A to pick it up. You have to dash attack (or airdodge ..? does that work?) to pick it up.

for some weird reason ._.;

 

[FightAdamantEevee]

I used to main R.O.B., so I'm pretty familiar with his fighting style.

He's pretty good fighting close-up and far away. At the beginning of the match, most ROBs charge their gyroes, some use their B, which isn't recommended. If you see him charging his gyro, you can either run up to him and try to dash attack/throw him before he finishes charging up the gyro or run with your shield in case he releases it when you get close.

At close range when you're at low percents, he can use his F-tilts and D-tilts to try to trip you and follow up with an F-Smash. Then he can have more time to charge up his gyro or use his B. Don't try to get in a spot dodge war with him, because his Dsmash beat's yours, and it comes out pretty fast, also giving him time to charge his gyro. If you ever see a ROB remaining statinary from .5 to 1 second, use your shield. He's usually going to gyro/B you.

If the Gyro does hit you, some ROBs pick it up and Glidetoss it into an Fsmash. Others leave it alone after they shoot it. His Dthrow can be followed up with a U-air at low %'s and same with his Up Throw. At higher percents, his up throw can be followed by a nair, which is pretty deadly.

ROB's recovery does NOT allow him to airdodge, so use that to your advantage. If you here the repeated noise of his engines, that means he's repeatedly pressing B to gain more distance while using his recovery, and if it's just a solid engine, then it'll be easier to gimp him. Hope this information helps.

 

[Spin Dashie]

As far as ROB goes, I always tend to stay prepared for his gyro and laser. And for the most part, most ROBs I face like to use their Dsmash when im way too close, but can be DIed out of setting me up for any tilt or smash attack. Knowing that some ROBs out there like using their Dsmash to try to throw my pressure game off (again based on the ROBs I've faced) I can use that to place in well spaced ftilts or bairs so I dont have to get too close.

You can use his gyro against him, shielding the thrown gyro and picking it right back up. Sonic's glide toss can get you right up to ROB from a pretty good distance, if spaced right, and allow you to do any other move afterwards with no lag from the toss (whether ROB is sheilding, dodging, ect).

I think it's a bit risky to star KO ROB because of his nair, or recover back to the stage from the bottom, because of his dair so small combos (dtilt-dtilt-upthrow or SD-uair/fair) will have to do until I can set him up for a smash around the 100%'s.

Thats basically what I have on ROB. There's a lot im forgetting and overlooking but the one good ROB I know of doesnt swing by that often.

 

[FightAdamantEevee]

As far as ROB goes, I always tend to stay prepared for his gyro and laser. And for the most part, most ROBs I face like to use their Dsmash when im way too close, but can be DIed out of setting me up for any tilt or smash attack. Knowing that some ROBs out there like using their Dsmash to try to throw my pressure game off (again based on the ROBs I've faced) I can use that to place in well spaced ftilts or bairs so I dont have to get too close.

You can use his gyro against him, shielding the thrown gyro and picking it right back up. Sonic's glide toss can get you right up to ROB from a pretty good distance, if spaced right, and allow you to do any other move afterwards with no lag from the toss (whether ROB is sheilding, dodging, ect).

I think it's a bit risky to star KO ROB because of his nair, or recover back to the stage from the bottom, because of his dair so small combos (dtilt-dtilt-upthrow or SD-uair/fair) will have to do until I can set him up for a smash around the 100%'s.

Thats basically what I have on ROB. There's a lot im forgetting and overlooking but the one good ROB I know of doesnt swing by that often.

If you shield ROB's gyro, I believe it disappears. Would you like a quick Sonic vs ROB brawl or two?

 

[Kinzer]

That it does.

If I were you, I would just disregard the Gyro at worst, but if you any good you would try to take control of the Gyro and not allow R.O.B. to either A. Charge another one, or B. Glidetoss with it. If you take away his Gyro, you leave with only a LAZAH!!! to work with, and once he uses that up, he's got nothing but his physical game which sadly... is arguably better than Sonic's...

Just don't let R.O.B. regain control of his toy again for Pete's Steak sake, throw it up in the air, throw it at him, glidetoss it, just take do something with.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Im not a ROB main by any stretch, but I think people are hyping the gyro and laser too much, yes, they are good, and they can be hard to get aroundbut most of the time robs laser will only be doing about 4-8% damage and the gyro does like 16% fully charged, but if its not, it does less than 10% as well.

they are hard to get around, but for people who have good defensive skills, its not super hard and the projectiles themselves dont do a crapton of damage. I really think that his physical attacks are much more dangerous and effective. and that robs big game plan is to hinder/annoy with the projectiles and use his close range prowess to send you out side again so that he can hinder your approach again.

The projectiles arent the main focus of his game and they really only play a factor when people believe that the biggest problem is getting around the projectiles and than they get angry/upset when the get past the projts. only to be quickly tossed back outside, and then after the cycle repeats a few times the player gets annoyed and tries to bumrush, at which point the projts. become much more effective because the players mind is clouded and thus their defensive skill is lowered.

tl;dr: projectiles lul the opponent into a false sence of security, because people dont realise that rob is a highly capable close range fighter.

also, HA is great for hindering and gimping rob while hes flying, but if your HA gets predicted, they will fall under your HA and punish with a double jumped bair. which will kill you way too low.
lastly rob cant airdodge while he flys, but he can nair, and nair is big, pretty fast, and really hurts so choose your attacks wisely

 

[Kinzer]

Spinshot takes care of both easily, just as long as you don't do it right onto R.O.B.'s UTilt and you're G2G.

I just hate having to even worry about it, I would much rather fight a MK who is just a straightforward fight, not a maze like R.O.B.

 

[Spin Dashie]

If you shield ROB's gyro, I believe it disappears. Would you like a quick Sonic vs ROB brawl or two?

Mmm.. that it does. Sorry about that. And I would love to brawl someone good buuuut wifi isnt working for me, my wireless internet sucks, and you live out of the way. Im gonna have to miss out on Polybrawl too

But as for the gyro, dash attacking into it to pick it up works.

 

[FightAdamantEevee]

Mmm.. that it does. Sorry about that. And I would love to brawl someone good buuuut wifi isnt working for me, my wireless internet sucks, and you live out of the way. Im gonna have to miss out on Polybrawl too

But as for the gyro, dash attacking into it to pick it up works.

Ah, it's ok. I just picked up Sonic yesterday btw, and I'm pretty decent with him. I just wanted to play a good Sonic player to see how he really works while helping contribute to the boards as well =P

 

[Spin Dashie]

Yeah I hear ya. One way to know a character's weakness and strength is to play as that character.

 

[da K.I.D.]

But as for the gyro, dash attacking into it to pick it up works.

character like rob and diddy that have those kind of projectiles, one of their tactics is to stand right where your dash attack will end. so that way after you dash attack to pick up the projectile, they can punish you. which can some times make you drop the projectile anyway

 

[Jim Morrison]

If you space well, OUR DTILT BEATS HIS HOLY **** SPOILER ALERT

 

[Kinzer]

What are you smoking?

'Cause I want some of it.

It just doesn't seem possible, at least.

I'm tired, forgive me.

 

[Spin Dashie]

character like rob and diddy that have those kind of projectiles, one of their tactics is to stand right where your dash attack will end. so that way after you dash attack to pick up the projectile, they can punish you. which can some times make you drop the projectile anyway

Yeah thats true, but im assuming Sonics would know when and when not to leave themsellves open like that. I make the mistake sometimes of dash attacking and leaving myself open, only to pick up their projectile. One thing I do admit having trouble is DIing out of ROB's Dsmash on the fly. Pikachu's is the easiest for me, but im still working on ROB's.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Kinzer I'm ****ing serious, I was playing gay ROB, seeing how SPAMMING DTILT worked, and someone outranged my D-tilt with Sonics.

 

[ViCTORiOUSViC]

Abt the weakness thing, wut is Sonic's biggest weakness?

 

[Kinzer]

Fake Steak.

That is his one weakness.

Now if you were to specify, as in you meat which characters gave Sonic the most trouble, we really haven't decided, but universally we agree that it could be/is Marth.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Sonics counters are much more person specific, as in what tactic works against who better. Aerial based or land base, spinning much, playing safe. Just the personal things. I hate TL and G&W, but, yeah, it's mostly accepted it's around MK, G&W and Marth.

 

[Camalange]

3. Ill also say that you are HIGHLY understating robs physical game. Because dealing with the spam isnt even as annoying as dealing with robs physical game. Id say theres a distance from 2 to 4 sonic lengths in front of rob where sonic GETS ABSOLUTELY UNEQUIVACABLY *****!! Because its abot a range where sonic cant reach rob but rob can d tilt, jab and f tilt sonic. And since all those moves are well ranged and rediculously fast, it should be sonics number 1 priority to stay outside of that area no matter what.

Uh, what? I definitley said how **** his tilts are...however...

4. Because of number 3. the majority of this match is highly dependant on how good sonic is at weaving in and out of robs range without getting stuck in that "dead zone"

I did forget to emphasize the bit about number 4...I meant to, but I forgot. I was going to lead into that from tilts...but I guess I got tired of typing >_>

It's now updated.

What do you guys think? Anything else that should be added?

 

[da K.I.D.]

get good at powershielding

 

[Camalange]

get good at powershielding

lol

Was hoping that would go under "Basics" and "lrn2player"

 

[da K.I.D.]

its still important

 

[ViCTORiOUSViC]

Fake Steak.

That is his one weakness.

Now if you were to specify, as in you meat which characters gave Sonic the most trouble, we really haven't decided, but universally we agree that it could be/is Marth.

Marth,really? Marth isn't bad but I wudnt think he wud b his worst match-up..I thot sum1 like MK or Snake would be