Sonic The Hedgehog: Community Matchup thread

[hippiedude92]

lol that's funny. Majority of the time, luigi will get ***** whenever you have a projectile at hand. At this case sonic doesn't. Well actually he does. His recovery isn't that hard to mess with, only if you mess up tho. Any aerial outprioritzies his green missle, you can even upb to use the spring to halt green missle's tracks. If he recoverys high with tornado, juggle trap him and repeat. If hes within shoryuken/tornado range from above, just wreck him with a homing attack? or anything that can spike lawl. If not, just stage spike him lol.

i find it lolful since usually luigi does well in gimping and gets ***** by gimping but hes like at a disadvantage in gimping sonic =[. Unless you juggle trap them if they dont sweetspot or if they homing atk you.

 

[Kinzer]

Hey wait a second...

How did you know we needed some help with the Weegee portion of our guide? AFAIK I do not see any export/notification made on the Weegee boards, and you guys just came as accordingly... O.o

...Weegee is such an attention hog. >.>

Errherm... I don't need infractions, so I will say this, again:

Does Weegee get to use Tornado again to recover if he got hit out of it, or is that a no-go? I'm pretty sure it's the former but I want to make sure. You'll probably have a fun time trying to get back on-stage, and not just because Weegee's Fair can literally swat you back/looks like a pimp-slap, but he probably has a nice camp-game when people try to recover.

How much deadframes are in Weegee's jab cancel if he tries to do stuff like 1-2-Up-B or 1-2-DSmash? Would it be enough to powershield such stuff or not?

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

I made an export and asked in their Xat.

 

[hippiedude92]

Well i just played tenky on wifi (lol). even tho its wifi, i believe its a dead on 50-50. We kept going on back and forth until someone loses the momentum and then eats up alot of %s.

@ kinzer, depends. His tornado is momentum based. Basically he can mash B (w/o second jump) for a lone tornado and get maybe half of FD's stage height probably? With a second jump combined with tornado, you get like a giant hop with less button mashing but it puts him in a bad position since he'll be so high and easy for you to read, not to mention if you knock him out, hes pretty much dead lol.

Also, if hes doing a rising tornado, and hit during the animation, yes he can do it again if he has a second jump but if he did get hit while using secondjump/tornado, he can still tornado BUT!, it takes far more button mashing skills (probably godly fingers) since your doing a falling momentum. But it's really a unrealistic for someone to have that kind of godly fingers except maybe Boss LOL. But yeah pretty much a no-no.

His camp game is pretty alright on the edge. I mean, it would have been better but sonic has sooooooo many options to just trick him (lolmindgames) and get quickly back on stage. Itr's matter of reading imo. a rising Bair covers mostly everything anyways. IMO sonic wins on almost everything for the edge game. luigis trash on it.

ill check on the jab cancel frames thinggy. im lazy atm and tired. ill do it tomrrow tho

 

[Tenki]

>__>

I won't say any numbers just yet, but I did pick up on some things.

If Luigi isn't being campy and is throwing out aerials:
- U-smash invincy frames are savior.
- D-air's stall-then-fall can break and hit between Luigi's aerials.
- F-tilt up vs SH aerials = F-tilt wins, most of the time, lol.

 

[Yonder]

Remember when everyone thought Luigi was one of Sonic's wost mtchups and Luigi beat him 70:30? Lol, I guess that isn't applied anymore. Anyways, I'd give it a 55:45 Weegee, Sonic's don't seem too hard against Weegee, but I remember playing a Sonic here(Boxob or something like that) and you can punish a homing spin very well with Up B.

I may give more info when I know the matchup better.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Homing Attack is never used anymore.

 

[Tenki]

For Luigi:

When you see Sonic spring, jump in front of him and prepare a U-air, because U-air outprioritizes Sonic's D-air, which is the most likely action from spring.


For Sonic:

If Luigi is camping your D-airs and starts to do auto-pilot aerials, D-air's stall and fall speed is just enough so that you can make him miss his aerial (if you use it as he uses his aerial) while falling fast enough to punish it if it misses.
--------

Anyway, here's what I noticed about the matchup - the reactive person wins.

If Luigi camps well, he should win the match. If he throws out aerials and the sweetspot misses (Luigi's N-air in mind), then Sonic can beat it out / punish it with his own aerials. But if Sonic misses or has his attacks out first, Luigi can just beat it with pretty much any move.

Also, if you, as Sonic, get hit, the best thing to do is usually to DI away/down from Luigi. If you DI up/towards Luigi when he jabs you (one jab is enough!), you're begging to get up-B'd in the face.

PS.
U-air out of shield is pretty much amazing.
Also, U-smash is nice against people (any character) who throw out aerials alot. o_O;

 

[hippiedude92]

I really hate sonic's hyphen upsmash. It basically outprioritizes, quickly exposes luigi's blind spot. I hate it so much lol. Well, I don't think we need to really argue that we def know it's a dead on 50-50 unless 55:45 in CPs unless other sonics want to play me. Lol i hope i was good enough for your taste tenki haha xD.

Another tidbit, don't ever get by Nair what so ever. It's annoying for anyone to have your combos intruppted ;D Sonic should not get hit by a utilts or a Nair popping him in the air.

Actually, the first one from the ground that sends up the person in the air and juggle traps the longest seems to be the winner as well. Not to mention the best one who can pull off the best when their dead onface to face, hand to hand combat. So seemily dead equal here but yeah XP.

If anything, sonic should DI away espically after luigi's dthorw since luigi will be looking for a opening to reset the situation.

i'm still open for some sonic wifi if anyone needs some friendlies or input for experience ;D hit me up on PMs

 

[Tenki]

lmao so i just found out Luigi gets a free jab out of a teched D-throw.

Anyone thinking what I'm thinking?

Spoiler

Jab > Up-B

 

[MorphedChaos]

I just wanna say something about Wario that you guys missed, Wario has a new tech with the big tire of the bike, which can do 39 damage by itself, so make sure he doesn't get the big tire! (If the wario is good enough, it can do 90+ damage, but its hard to chain the tire.)

As for Luigi, Sonic's Usmash is just too good in this matchup.

 

[Tenki]

what the hell is this tech :3

it sounds nice.

lol

 

[MorphedChaos]

Check Fiction's thread on the Wario forums....

Coem to think of it, I need to finish my Wario guide, LOL

 

[Tenki]

awesome.

our version does less damage though, and it uses a differen't smash, lol.

 

[hippiedude92]

lmao so i just found out Luigi gets a free jab out of a teched D-throw.

Anyone thinking what I'm thinking?

Spoiler

Jab > Up-B

lawl. you mean sonic's dthrow? or it could be a jab > dthrow or jab > dsmash or jab anything ;D!! i love jabs lol.

i think you can angle sonic's ftilt right? it pretty much beats out everything luigi has except for nair which trades off with it xD

 

[da K.I.D.]

as a non luigi player, whenever i think jabs with him, i automatically assume shoryuken...

i think that was what tenki was refering to

 

[hippiedude92]

ya he was referring to that. but that's where the sexy mindgames come in ^.^. i came back from my tourney, i was fighting a sonic user there, he kept trying to shield cuz he thought i was gonna jab upb him but instead i kept jab cancelling him hahah xD

 

[da K.I.D.]

what a **** you are lol

 

[Chis]

Anymore guys? I want to move on :<

 

[hippiedude92]

what a **** you are lol

dont hate son lol. on sunday im open for wifi if u need exp on wigi just sayin

 

[Tenki]

He doesn't have a wii/play on wifi.

So, someone tell me what's the best way to hit Luigi out of his recovery.

By that, I mean his down-B.

 

[ShadowLink84]

I like Bair as well as a Dair mainly because he is vulnerable from above and can be hit out of it with Bair

 

[da K.I.D.]

uncanceled homing attack

just a theory, but if you start a HA right after he starts tornado, no matter how much/little he rises, sonic should always be able to hit him in the dead time of the move, so that way, you dont have to guess where hes going to be

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

uncanceled homing attack

just a theory, but if you start a HA right after he starts tornado, no matter how much/little he rises, sonic should always be able to hit him in the dead time of the move, so that way, you dont have to guess where hes going to be

you can also fast fall to fair to cancel the tornado and land the hit. I've used this many times and I've only failed to complete this move twice.

 

[Tenki]

I like Bair as well as a Dair mainly because he is vulnerable from above and can be hit out of it with Bair

you can also fast fall to fair to cancel the tornado and land the hit. I've used this many times and I've only failed to complete this move twice.

B-air I see working, for obvious reasons.

Sonic's F-air and D-air aren't outprioritized by the tornado? (this is, assuming Luigi is under the stage and moving upwards.)

uncanceled homing attack

just a theory, but if you start a HA right after he starts tornado, no matter how much/little he rises, sonic should always be able to hit him in the dead time of the move, so that way, you dont have to guess where hes going to be

Maybe.
But if you let him finish tornado, then unless HA kills him, he'll be in recovery range for side-B/up-B combinations. But I guess that's better than having his tornado as a viable option.

Though, if he's under you, HA will hit him towards the stage :[

 

[ShadowLink84]

I am sure that it either exchanges or breaks through (Dair)

 

[Kinzer]

So i herd we were discussing Flaco.

http://allisbrawl.com/forum/topic.aspx?pid=676556#p676556

Over there anyway.

I missed so much I don't know what's here back at SWF.

 

[da K.I.D.]

the thing is, you dont want to be trading hits with luigis recovery tornado, that junk is the craziest reverse gimp this side of metaknight

 

[ShadowLink84]

Except by trading hits with the Dair you semispike him.
how does it reverse gimp you? I've used it on peope offstage while recovering and they've been just fine.

 

[Tenki]

well, the thing is Luigi's tornado has the highest boost the first time you use it aerially.

If you can interrupt that, it's basically like taking away Sonic's double jump off stage, in terms of how much it hurts his recovery.

 

[hippiedude92]

full hop to a dair (make sure u know wat height u want) his outer leg shud knock him out of it. make sure u hav second jump or u can just bair him.IIRC u can DI towards the stage after a HA? just a thoery. im assuming ur talking about startup frames of nado so he cant tradeoff w/ nair

 

[Browny]

+1 vote for hippiedude; Most intelligent/helpful person to venture into other characters boards' matchup threads

 

[hippiedude92]

NO U. You stalking me? :O nah im jking. Lol thanks. i dont usually do matchup espically when we're debating ratios since this board pretty much knows what a matchup thread ( basicallly how to fight X vs Y) this board has my respect lol.

 

[Chis]

I'm moving on to Peach on friday.

 

[Zip.]

I'm somewhat glad that sonic doesnt have any matchups that completely **** him.(70-30 i suppose xD)

 

[Kinzer]

We (I?) are too, though some of us are unsure of certain characters for example, like Marth.

...No matter what kind of a Sonic you are, you have a 6:4 disadvantage at the least, he is a pain to deal with, seriously...

 

[Browny]

except of course, the fabled dtilt

 

[Kinzer]

Oh man, I constantly forget that even though the broken DTilts have a 99-1/100-0 matchup against Sonic, nobody uses/spams it to be such a threat to Sonic.

...Poor OS, he discovered a technique for the community, yet nobody uses it.

 

[Napilopez]

Marth is 50:50. Trufax.

 

[Kinzer]

Well then, I think I might have an idea of who might be a hot-topic in the future.

And God no, it is not Mr. G&W.