Sonic in Mid-Tier celebration thread!

[Kinzer]

Unless we find some crazy AT, like how Ness has that whatever thing in Melee, and Sheik (Shiek? HTF do you spell it?!) has that Chain-Jacket.

Hopefully though that AT like won't crash the game, or gt banned lol.

 

[PoweredVolt]

Good stuff.

 

[Spin-Dash]

Man... All this hype on Sonic has me wanting to main him again.

 

[MarKO X]

Kinzer, you are not the only one.
I too think that Sonic is exactly where he belongs. Only character that might be better than Sonic is Shiek. Everyone below Shiek isn't better imo.

Mag, while the reasoning of Malcolm's decision might sound a little weird, I personally can't hate the man for making moves to better his success, and I can't hate the man for inspiring (yeah, I said it, inspiring) many Sonics to be as good as him and to try and surpass him. We need not take Malcolm dropping Sonic as a negative thing, because when you think about it, he helped us get here, yes, but now, we know wut our Hedgehog is capable of doing. It's only a matter of maintaining our hard work and not letting his new position get to our head.

To my +8 Brethren, MKO+8. You like?

 

[JMan8891]

J&K+8 FTW!!!!

That marriage is phail-sauce

IMO, Jon & Kate +8 wins!!!!

 

[Nihongo-ookami]

Congratz, Sonic!

The only reason I'm congratulating you is because I'm a rabid Sonic fanboy.

I don't play him in Brawl, though.

However, +8 is amazing. Here's to putting our favorite hedgehog to the top!

*opens champagne bottle*

 

[Camalange]

Mag, while the reasoning of Malcolm's decision might sound a little weird, I personally can't hate the man for making moves to better his success, and I can't hate the man for inspiring (yeah, I said it, inspiring) many Sonics to be as good as him and to try and surpass him. We need not take Malcolm dropping Sonic as a negative thing, because when you think about it, he helped us get here, yes, but now, we know wut our Hedgehog is capable of doing. It's only a matter of maintaining our hard work and not letting his new position get to our head.

^^QFT

To my +8 Brethren, MKO+8. You like?

I like XD cam+8 ftw

Man... All this hype on Sonic has me wanting to main him again.

I've been seeing a lot of this...my responce to that is as follows...

Everyone's like "ZOMG, SONIC'S MID TIER! ILL BE GOOD WITH HIM NOW!" but he hasn't changed as a character. He's been placing mid tier worthy results for a long time now, people just chose to ignore it until just recently.

He's just now getting somewhere because all the loyal people who played him from the start, have stuck around and got him to this point steak today. The Sonic community is just strong as a whole, and we're dedicated, and determined. The only low tier to truley step it up.

People keep saying that now that Sonic's mid tier, more people will use him. It's completley wrong because Sonic takes forever to LEARN let alone WIN with. Most people on their trail of learning Sonic enter a pool of depression and it leads to their tragic downfall. lol, his learning curve is GIANT.

Most people can't get past "The Difference Between Down-B and Side-B"

This isn't directed towards you specifically, just in general XD I quoted myself from the SBRv3 thread.

J&K+8 FTW!!!!

That marriage is phail-sauce

IMO, Jon & Kate +8 wins!!!!

XD I literaly lol'd

 

[Kinzer]

...Hehe.

After I fulfill my promise to Malcolm to use the "3030+" tag, I'll see if I can also sport out the "Kin+8" tag.

"2Slow" won't ever go out of style for me though.

I'm sorry guys, I would sport your tags like using CiTH or SL84, but I am not confident enough in myself to risk shaming your good names. Though other than personal name tags, I'll probably start taking requests.

 

[thecatinthehat]

Cat-8.

>.>

<.<

*runs*

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Try+8 lol Works for me.


I agree Sheik should be above us but meh. I'm not gonna knock it.

 

[Browny]

I don't believe he's really better than SheikZelda or PT. Also, alot of Sonic's abilities are way too reliant on the player who plays him, which is good in a way, but it can make for inaccuracy issues if someone really amazing plays as Sonic.

The more i think about it, Sonic is probably more and more deserving of this placement.

My brother mains ganon and we both use cf quite a bit so the mixup there is interesting. there is no doubt in my mind that falcon is the worst in brawl. Everything falcon does, ganon does better minus recovering, but his weight can negate that, of course the risk of getting ganoncided exists. Its just the extent to which ganon can be gayed is what makes him worse. which is what annoys me A LOT about tiers.

Ganon has a few unwinnable matchups while falcons might as well be the same. against the majority of the cast however i feel I can accurately say that ganon performs far better than falcon. Take into account however the extent to which every character can % camp him an entire game if they choose to play gay and suddenly it gets a lot worse. So we have an example of a character getting sent to bottom tier because of this, while a the same time yo have a character like falco who gets hard countered by a few characters and is disadvantaged against most of top and even with high tier. Yet this seems to have no effect on his placement.

The tier list becomes more and more obvious that its simply a rating of how the characters perform in tournaments, paper statistics seem to have lost all meaning anymore, and matchups are witnessed first hand to be closer than most think. The ability for players to abuse certain tactics to even out matchups has to be considered. In contradiction to what you stated Tenki, I dont believe Brawl's tiers should not be affected by mindgames etc. Sonics ability to mindgame and whatnot is the same player-dependant skill to simply run away from ganon for 7 minutes and simply wait for him to approach, very much the reason he is dead last. How are Sonic's mindgames worthless in tiers while MK's ability to up-b oos vs everything you throw at him warrants top tier? they both rely on the player, and to the degree they can abuse tactics for a real result

Which brings me to Sonic. for so long we have said he cant be anything other than low tier (ROY, quit swf yet? lol or was that only for 2.0 ) because he sucked on paper which was fair enough, but no other character gets the same treatment. Other fighting games may base their tier lists on matchups, attack ratings etc but you cant compare brawl to them. the brawl tier list is very different from other game's lists and I beleive less accurate for it. The final result of all this, Sonic being higher than sheik. Why should sheik be higher? (or bowser, ike for that matter). Being good on paper is not a consideration in brawl tier lists. Sheik has done nothing to prove her tournament viability being greater than Sonics If those characters were to be higher, the entire brawl tier list would be completely thrown out of balance. DK would be high/top tier (and rightfully so) and DDD's victims would rise. Not that it makes a difference in the end, they will still get gayed by him.


tl;dr In any other game, Sonic would be low or bottom tier. In BRAWL, Sonic deserves to be higher than sheik 100% and is exactly where he should be. Brawl's tier list determining system is not wrong, its just different. and maybe the reason we think it is innacurate is because it is an uncommon method we are not used to, but who can honestly say it is wrong...

 

[Kinzer]

Fanboys suck.

... >.> At least the bad ones anyway. Can't believe people even use this as an argument, it's silly.

All (bad) fanboys do is add to the number of people unable to showcase his true potential, which... hurts the purpose of trying to get the community to accept him as a viable character.

...How can I still think straight when I've been up for 15 hours right now, with 2 glasses of Wine left over from last night and God knows how much sleep the night before?

 

[JMan8891]

Fanboys suck.

... >.> At least the bad ones anyway. Can't believe people even use this as an argument, it's silly.

All (bad) fanboys do is add to the number of people unable to showcase his true potential, which... hurts the purpose of trying to get the community to accept him as a viable character.

...How can I still think straight when I've been up for 15 hours right now, with 2 glasses of Wine left over from last night and God knows how much sleep the night before?

No Kinzer, that is NOT the way

Sonic Seyz "Put the wine and pills AWAY"

 

[Pheonix]

Sonic will never make B tier, lmao. C tier will probably be the highest he gets.

Yeah, Peach will be pretty hard to get past on the tier list.

 

[aeghrur]

DJB has a point.
And EL basically said tiers are stupid because they were pre-determined and we should just look at tourny results as the closest indication of said tiers.
Sonic's tourny results have been mid for a long time. =/
Furthermore, mindgames should definitely factor into the tier list. I even believe that mindgame potential should factor into match-ups, much like adumbrodeus suggested.
The reason is right now, our match-ups do NOT resemble the match-ups being played at the tournaments. What happens is 2 completely different things. As a result, to base a tier-list off of incorrect match-ups simply gives incorrect results, but adding mindgames and tournament results helps counterbalance that.

 

[Allied]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9Rq7zZ-A5E

=]

 

[Kinzer]

LOL somehow I knew that it would be some sort of screamer, so I turned my volume off. XD

 

[JayBee]

Wow! Sonic is mid tier now?
It makes me wanna pick up the character again.

 

[Trillion]

Don't get me wrong MarkO. I'm not mad at Malcolm or anything. I just think his reason for dropping Sonic is very trivial. I thank him for the work he has done and I do like his playstyle etc. I just think losing our best Sonic main is a shame over something so unimportant.


Also, everything that DJ said on the previous page about how mindgames and what not should be part of the tier list I agree with. I have been trying to tell people that for a LONG time. Haven't really discussed it much around here, but I did mention it once in the tier list thread just to get flamed for it. Sonic has mindgame potential that other characters don't have. The potential can only be shown based on how well our players use it. Other characters have less mindgame potential, but the same holds true for their players.

 

[Chis]

Also, everything that DJ said on the previous page about how mindgames and what not should be part of the tier list I agree with. I have been trying to tell people that for a LONG time. Haven't really discussed it much around here, but I did mention it once in the tier list thread just to get flamed for it. Sonic has mindgame potential that other characters don't have. The potential can only be shown based on how well our players use it. Other characters have less mindgame potential, but the same holds true for their players.

I disagree. The tier list shows how sucessful a high level player can do with a character in tourney set conditions. If a high level player picks up Sonic, they will use 'mindgames' and they will use it consisntily as proven by Sonic players many times. Rather than a 'potenital', let's say 'his vast ability to create opportunities constantly'

 

[Ussi]

I knew you guys were too fast...

 

[Trillion]

I disagree. The tier list shows how sucessful a high level player can do with a character in tourney set conditions. If a high level player picks up Sonic, they will use 'mindgames' and they will use it consisntily as proven by Sonic players many times. Rather than a 'potenital', let's say 'his vast ability to create opportunities constantly'

Maybe I am reading this wrong, but it sounds more like you agree but that you are saying it in a different way then me. IMO the tier list should reflect how well a character does when played at his/her best possible game in tourney conditions. The only way to measure the maximum ability of a character is by having the best player(s) of that character use them to the best of their abilities.

Sonic has attacks with properties that give him mindgaming abilities that other characters can't possess. Example, the spin dash shield cancel. The ability to cancel his spin dash is a Sonic specific ability that other characters do not have the option of. This needs to be calculated in because this is NOT a player specific mindgame. However, even player specific mindgames can only go as far as the character allows. Another ex: Malcolm and Espy like to use dash pivots and so this is player specific, but if it weren't for Sonic's speed and if they were playing a character like say Bowser, this wouldn't work. So even player specific mindgames need to be considered to some degree.

 

[Camalange]

I think we should be reminded that this is a +8 celebration thread.

^_^

That's my first time ever using that face by the way. THAT'S HOW YOU KNOW THIS **** IS A PARTY!

 

[Sameyu]

As someone who has recently started maining Sonic after figuring out his learning curve, I'm quite surprised and impressed that he's made it this far. Keep up the good work!

 

[Kataefi]

^ I'm not surprised at all =D

I should have come here earlier to congratulate all the sonic mains. (I need to read the boards more >.<) You guys put in a lot of effort so well done.

 

[Kinzer]

...I have learned how to DashDance Pivot now.

I'll bring the chips.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

i also learned to DDP and DDP to Fsmash! ^_._^

IN OTHER NEWS:
let us all celebrate sonic's step into the big leagues. and also let us have a moment of silence for our brave hedgehog Malcolm who earlier this week left the field of battle and morn the loss of victory for low tiers tourneys. But also praise the fact that we have now opened the gate to bigger things we can advance farther we just have to try even harder and let the power of the GOLDEN STEAK be with us. HAIL ALL SONIC'S ACROSS THE WORLD AND LET THEM HOLD A1 SAUCE AND HAND IN HANDS AND SCREAM WE WILL BE STEAK TIER!!!!!!!

 

[da K.I.D.]

^^^ person who takes the internet too seriously^^^

 

[aeghrur]

He's also the person to be in between 2 people with 6,000+ posts each. O_O

 

[infomon]

He's also the person to be in between 2 people with 6,000+ posts each. O_O

aegs wins this thread

 

[Camalange]

...I have learned how to DashDance Pivot now.

I'll bring the chips.

Well it's about time.

;D

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

I don't really know how to do it. I just click left and right and it kind of works. It's almost like an instinct lol. It's forward->Forward, back right?

 

[Camalange]

It's almost like an instinct lol. It's forward->Forward, back right?

Yup.

It starts to feel natural once you get the rythym down. I forget the physics behind it exactly, but it's basically a Foxtrot>Pivot>Dash or something weird like that >_>

 

[Jim Morrison]

I sometimes DDP out of nowhere.
It works good tbh.

 

[~TBS~]

DDP is too good. i dunno if you guys watched my new vids in the WSC, but I got some sick things in with that. It can work, but you gotta know what to do after you come to a stop. To do another DDP, grab, SDC, its alot of options.

 

[JayBee]

indeed. this man speaks truth
Sm, we need to chill sometime.

 

[iSpiN]

At least I'll have PT for low tier tournies :/

But yes, I did enjoy a nice steak after hearing this. This is what I've been wanting to see for quite some time now. Even if Sonic won't remain in Mid tier forever, our wish to get him there has been accomplished and thats all that matters.

 

[Orange_Soda_Man]

The attitude most of us seem to have [albeit however justified you think you are] about Sonic being too high, well, sucks. Forget where he actually deserves to be; by thinking he is too high, you will perform worse.

If you have the mental discipline to block out stray thoughts about unimportant/irrelevant things like tier lists as far as your gameplay is concerned, then nevermind. However, I don't think enough of us have that mental discipline.
I certainly don't. So I'm gonna try and be positive. ''Whoo, he's Mid-Tier! Sonic Main pride! I'm pumped! gonna play well!'' - basic confidence stuff. I played one of my locals today that I've gone to tourneys with, and I beat his main with my sonic in a set for the first time ever. Nothing grand or anything, but I can't rule out that my mental state was a factor.

 

[iSpiN]

So your mentality has gone up since your character is considered mediocre now?

 

[Orange_Soda_Man]

So your mentality has gone up since your character is considered mediocre now?

The alternative can't give you positive results. Maybe I worded that story poorly, maybe I just didn't care enough before, I don't know. If you can tell me how thinking a character you main is higher than he belongs is going to help you in-game, I am willing to listen.