Smash Commentary has to Improve

[Rappster]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1GnbmIvL7o&feature=related
i really dig ihsb's stuff
its flippant, but its not like
OMFG OHSHlT OHSHlT OHSHlT etc.

 

[GreenFox]

Yeah commentary was defintley way better on Melee... All of the brawl ones I've heard dont seem to know what there talking about and just say random stuff instead of actually commentating

 

[goateeguy]

mute it if you don't like it

do you watch other sports muted? That'd be pretty flipping boring.

 

[D1]

I say we kill em all.

Haters gonna hate, just play your favorite music if you don't like what you're hearing during the match. People are gonna commentate if they want to or not. I say it makes me sometimes feel like I'm at the event sitting next to the commentator when they do their thing. It doesn't have to be 100% perfect commentary, just make me feel like I'm at the tourney as well.

 

[GunmasterLombardi]

Haters gonna hate, just play your favorite music if you don't like what you're hearing during the match. People are gonna commentate if they want to or not. I say it makes me sometimes feel like I'm at the event sitting next to the commentator when they do their thing. It doesn't have to be 100% perfect commentary, just make me feel like I'm at the tourney as well.

If you want to feel like you're at the event then what's wrong with actually playing the tournament and doing well to get noticed?

 

[L/A/W]

If you want to feel like you're at the event then what's wrong with actually playing the tournament and doing well to get noticed?

it helps people who couldn't make it out to the tournament obviously, are you against commentary?

 

[Merkuri]

mute it if you don't like it

But then we lose the sound of the game and that sucks.

Has anyone watched the first match between Cosmo and Macd from POE3? The commentators were talking about modern warfare for the half the match. It's just stupid. They should just not have commentary rather than letting so much idiots talk.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

sliq is hella good at commentary dont hate. here is proof:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gt1BTs_P6lQ&playnext_from=TL&videos=j3pkNUrJcQ0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tm7b78UXgtQ&playnext_from=TL&videos=-r7REiYG6rM

 

[Ryuker]

I think this thread is getting to a point that you guys can decide on some guidelines for commentators.

Personally I think there's a balance that commentators need to find between their own style and what's expected by the audience.

I think the wife & husband commentary is a good example of way of commentating that is both informational and creates hype. That would be closer to the example of newb and pro commentating by asking and answering each others questions (and no I'm not calling them newbs). I think that is a good way of thinking about it. Ask yourself what would they want to know at that time then deliver on that.

But I think the most important thing to keep in mind for the commentator is know the answer to this question: What do you viewers want right now? Commentary is a sort of journalism so your not just reporting on the match but also on the event that your at. It's sort of your responsibilty to bring news to people that aren't at the event.
Like when waffles said :"Phils holding my hand right now" during the armada vs mango sets at genesis. That made me picture what it was like to be there around exciting time.

What it really dislike is forced commentary. Commentary that isn't it self but just tries to mimic some one else or what happened in a certain vid. I think commentary is something that needs to go more natural and adjusted to the current match going on.

That's about all I can think of right now

 

[GREENTHUMB]

You guys are ********. These videos don't belong to YOU or the community . They belong to the recorder and uploader and its under THEIR discretion what they want.

If you don't like it either DONT WATCH or MUTE IT.

If you think you can do better then by all means go ahead, BUT don't complain because you don't like someones OWN videos on THEIR youtube channel.

 

[Ryuker]

You guys are ********. These videos don't belong to YOU or the community . They belong to the recorder and uploader and its under THEIR discretion what they want.

If you don't like it either DONT WATCH or MUTE IT.

If you think you can do better then by all means go ahead, BUT don't complain because you don't like someones OWN videos on THEIR youtube channel.

There's nothing wrong with voicing your opinions though. It's up to commentators them selves wether they listen to it.

 

[Zoler]

You guys are ********. These videos don't belong to YOU or the community . They belong to the recorder and uploader and its under THEIR discretion what they want.

If you don't like it either DONT WATCH or MUTE IT.

If you think you can do better then by all means go ahead, BUT don't complain because you don't like someones OWN videos on THEIR youtube channel.

you're dumb. it's for the community, if people wanna make the community look bad they shouldn't have tourneys in the first place IMO

 

[t3h Icy]

This is garbage.

 

[stabbedbyanipple]

This is garbage.

You're garbage

sliq is amazing

 

[goateeguy]

How's this for a few guidelines:
-Talk about the game
Smash is a quick game, so a full play-by-play would be unreasonable and rather pointless, but keeping track of what is generally going on, for example 'Marth is trying to keep Falco above him on that platform' would be nice so that the big picture of the match is clearer

-Bring the Noobs up to speed
Offer strategic or technical insight that is not necessarily common knowledge

-Q/A
A back and forth question and answer style of commentary with two people is preferable to one person monologuing.

-Explain the circumstances of the match
If there is any story to the match like rivalries (the Newlyweds would go crazy whenever Ken played Azen), information about the brackets ('if this guy wins he has to go through Jeff, Armada, and Mango hahaha good luck with that...'), or interesting bits about the individual player ('He's been out of tournaments for a while but you wouldn't think so the way he's playing...') it should be told

-Switch topics to keep things fresh
Once you run out of things to talk about in one topic, switch to another one. Husband and Wife would talk about the characters they were picking and how each character plays each stage before the match and early on, then switch to more in-depth strategic discussion once the match started, and go back to their previous conversations during a lull in the action

-Stop hurting our ears!!!
Refrain as much as possible from screaming into the mike (I have no objection to screaming off the mike or talking in a very excited voice)

-I ****ing hate it when people start ****ing swearing like ****!!!
Keep profanities to a minimum please.

Respond if there are any you think aren't represented here or if you disagree with any.

edit: there you go Ryuker, something like that?

 

[Ryuker]

How's this for a few guidelines:
-Smash is a quick game, so a full play-by-play would be unreasonable and rather pointless, but keeping track of what is generally going on, for example 'Marth is trying to keep Falco above him on that platform' would be nice so that the big picture of the match is clearer
-Offer strategic or technical insight that is not necessarily common knowledge
-A back and forth question and answer style of commentary with two people is preferable to one person monologuing.
-If there is any story to the match like rivalries (the Newlyweds would go crazy whenever Ken played Azen), information about the brackets ('if this guy wins he has to go through Jeff, Armada, and Mango hahaha good luck with that...'), or interesting bits about the individual player ('He's been out of tournaments for a while but you wouldn't think so the way he's playing...') it should be told
-Once you run out of things to talk about in one topic, switch to another one. Husband and Wife would talk about the characters they were picking and how each character plays each stage before the match and early on, then switch to more in-depth strategic discussion once the match started, and go back to their previous conversations during a lull in the action
-Refrain as much as possible from screaming into the mike (I have no objection to screaming off the mike or talking in a very excited voice)
-Keep profanities to a minimum

Respond if there are any you think aren't represented here or if you disagree with any.

that list is a good start. I think it would help if you gave each topic headers though. What you have now is the explanation why but not the real rule of thumb. So something like:

switch topics
Once you run out of things to talk about in one topic, switch to another one. Husband and Wife would talk about the characters they were picking and how each character plays each stage before the match and early on, then switch to more in-depth strategic discussion once the match started, and go back to their previous conversations during a lull in the action

etc. Couldn't think of one for each point you listed though.

 

[@TKbreezy]

Hi,

So after reading this I see alot of views on commentary and I'm pretty much convinced that you just can't please everyone.

I am one of MD/VA's main commentators (along with EE/Phil and Coney) and I've received complaints before (WAAAY Back then) so I fixed my style and no complaints have been given since. Only problem is, I fixed the problem for MD/VA but what happens when I go OOS? they might like something different in Cali or Michigan or something. I think commentators need to keep that in mind if they ever get discouraged about commentary.

also
Play by Play commentary?...I dont agree with that...I play brawl but when im watching brawl...I really barely ever like it as the tournament progresses. Infact I usually never commentate grand finals unless its something new. just think...how many times have you seen an MK ditto that you are really really hype abouit?....how many times do you REALLY like seeing m2k vs Ally? Of course i still watch the latter because i like watching ally play but I'm no where near as hype as I would be if it was like ally vs a non MK (like when Ally plays San (ike) those matches are always hype)

now if I were to commentate play-by-play, it would make that match look way more boring than it actually is
"m2k chasing after tyrant, oh good down air, another good down air, tyrant shuttle loops to clear him some space"
^ I know if this were happening as the match were happening I would probably just turn off and wait until the results thread goes up

I think, as a community we need hype from the commentary...we need funny from the commentary...and we need GOOD info from the commentary

Catch Phrases are good as long as they arent forced. inside jokes CAN be ok if you explain it (not during the match but maybe during some down time)

We commonly make up combo names that are somewhat inside jokes but if you've experienced enough things through life. for instance
B-smash - a back smash (play on the phrase Fsmash) is pretty much anytime you hit someone but it hits them with the reverse side of the hitbox (like hitting with falcos fsmash when they are behind you sending you backwards.)
Death Star combo - anytime when someone is hit into the firing laser on halberd (best effect is if they die from it)

thats pretty much my input on things for now

(and by WE I meant coney and I...we are in the same crew

 

[@TKbreezy]

double post shenanigans...but it wasnt on purprose...srsly...

 

[BBQTV]

why did you post the same thing twice?

 

[PB&J]

im so use to people doing commentary that anything will do..macd vs cosmo was cool besides yummy and beefy on the mic..there was husband and wife at the tourny and they didnt even commentate.

its cool though. if u guys dont like the commentary just mute it..its not that bad.

one thing that really really really really bothers me is when people curse so much during commentating. get it together.

besides that i wont complain

 

[Bloodcross]

Yeah... commentary DOES need to improve.

Pierce + JGWentworth are really good commentators for Brawl. Pierce has a vast knowledge of the game and is able to tell the match effectively. While JG is just mad funny but doesn't overuse his humor. With Pierce's knowledge and JG's humor keeping us interested, they make a good commentary staff. It's a shame JG will be inactive for a while so I won't get to see more of his uploaded videos on Youtube anytime soon.

 

[DJ Nintendo]

Bowser subscribes

 

[GREENTHUMB]

you're dumb. it's for the community, if people wanna make the community look bad they shouldn't have tourneys in the first place IMO

no you're dumb.

Look nobody will ever completely agree who should commentate or whos the best and whos the worst. Just look at this thread. In the end you just get circle jerking and flaming which in the end is WORST for the community then a few videos with commentary you don't like.


Why is there this sense of entitlement with smashers? Why are you all such b!tches?

 

[Merkuri]

no you're dumb.

Look nobody will ever completely agree who should commentate or whos the best and whos the worst. Just look at this thread. In the end you just get circle jerking and flaming which in the end is WORST for the community then a few videos with commentary you don't like.


Why is there this sense of entitlement with smashers? Why are you all such b!tches?

Nah certain things can be agreed on. No one complains about Husband and Wife's commentary and I think we can all agree that those dumb ****s who were commentating the first vid of Cosmo vs MACd at POE3 shouldn't commentate again, or at the very least not like that again.

 

[GREENTHUMB]

I don't like the newlyweds, I think they are boring and they focus on themselves way to much.


"oh m2k picks fox... reminds me of the time when I was playing ken blah blah blah."

and if you look up you see people disagreeing about the poe commentary. Some like sliq some don't.

I think you guys need to realise, You're lucky to even have the videos uploaded and shouldn't have such sense of entitlement to what exactly you want your smash tourney videos to be like.

 

[GREENTHUMB]

p.s. I think Waffles is great. He uploads, commentates, and edits all his videos.

Anyone that b!tches about that can fyck off!!

 

[MarioMariox2]

"Ooooh! What the f*** was that sh**!"

A combo in itself :O I too wholeheartedly agree to this post.

WARNING. Hyperbole ahead, don't take thing into offense: I would think saying "perfect tipper (Commentary on Ken at MLG)" all the time would be better in getting people into smash (at least 51% of the time) that just going "Get f***'d up and your *** r**** boy!".

Smash needs hype from other sources, not just its own community.

 

[iamjason8]

I whole-heartedly agree with this.

Me too.

Let's also not forget Jason and co.

 

[WindMajor]

Yeah... commentary DOES need to improve.

Pierce + JGWentworth are really good commentators for Brawl. Pierce has a vast knowledge of the game and is able to tell the match effectively. While JG is just mad funny but doesn't overuse his humor. With Pierce's knowledge and JG's humor keeping us interested, they make a good commentary staff. It's a shame JG will be inactive for a while so I won't get to see more of his uploaded videos on Youtube anytime soon.

I wanted to post this.

When I think of good commentary, I think of these guys.

 

[PB&J]

me.djn,husband , and wife will be doing some commentary this weekend for a tourny so look out for that

 

[prog]

me.djn,husband , and wife will be doing some commentary this weekend for a tourny so look out for that

nah, you gotta freestyle battle to get on my mic.

but onto the commentary issue, yes, smash is too fast paced for pure play-by-play.

however, when you think of commentary, there are generally two people doing it: one for play by play, one for color commentary. You get the emotional investment through the play by play, and the background knowledge through the color commentator. The hard part is finding pairs that have chemistry.

 

[Ryuker]

nah, you gotta freestyle battle to get on my mic.

but onto the commentary issue, yes, smash is too fast paced for pure play-by-play.

however, when you think of commentary, there are generally two people doing it: one for play by play, one for color commentary. You get the emotional investment through the play by play, and the background knowledge through the color commentator. The hard part is finding pairs that have chemistry.

Definetly agree on that. But that's why it should be taken more seriously then it is now. It happens a lot that players just join in on the commentary at the tournament and that's when it starts to go down hill.
Don't get me wrong though I think it's great that you even have commentary (I can't get it to work well in europe).

 

[Rain(ame)]

Actually...I really like the way D1 commentates. He focuses on the match, but not to the point where it's boring. He also gets hype. *Shrugs* I think finding a balance on that is fine. Also...it's cool to talk about other stuff that went on in the tournament. Getting side-tracked once in a while is alright, honestly. Just not so side tracked that it's out of control and confusing.

Things that were random, yet funny- The song references in the match. Waffles and crew singing, "Don't stop me now" and "I'm on a boat". Another example, DJN and Alukard singing "Suavemente". (I laughed so hard, xD.)

I think we can have fun, but keep it on topic, too. It's really not that hard.

 

[Rannskita]

I think this is all about the audience you are basing it on and the context.

In my roaming of Youtube I've found plenty of less well viewed tournaments with commentary that I have loved, many mentioned in this thread. This type of commentary has all been by people who know their audience isn't huge and hyped, and have managed to conjur something from nothing for them, bringing entertainment or humour whether, alone, paired, with inside jokes, random asshat stuff: whatever it takes to create some energy for a video that had pretty much nothing comming into it. This type of commentary is TERRIBLE for new players or outsiders as they won't understand the gameplay, the refrences, and most likely any part of what makes it enjoyable for smashers.

That kind of commentary is also terrible for tournaments. As well as being terrible at engaging and presenting smash to new players and outsiders (what this thread is about) it also doesnt fit. Tournaments dont need commebtators who can make something out of nothing, they need commentators who can focus the hype of the tournament and event onto the current match. That's why newlyweds are so effective and generally revered, because they draw on everything good commentators in any setting do, and translate that onto what youre seeing. Outsiders get told general strategies and major plays by each character, new players get told the history of the players or matchup, and experienced smashers are made to feel the atmosphere in the venue. Everyone gets catered to with husband and wife, and that's why they're seen as 'the best' commentators smash has produced, and what the standard should be for major tournaments.


In a kinda seperate post concerning 'HMW' style commentary starting a bad trend that was mentioned somewhere at the start of the thread... Waffles has done an insane amount for the community, and his ability to be the go to place for so many tournament recordings is pretty incredible. However he and Phil more and more are finding less and less to say about each match because of the sheer volume of output Waffles creates, the routine of a many videos nowadays being longish silences punctuated by an attempt to say something like 'I dunno, .. is just getting off I guess.. needs to bring it back' and a distinct antihype unless theres a cute combo or recovery. More often than not at the more major tourneys HMW+Phil shake this of and themselves feed off of the hype as they see new and interesting matches betwen different players, but often later in the day/tournament they revert to the routine. Personally I'd prefer newlywed style forcefed commentary for a Puff ditto GF, than a lackluster and resigned half-commentary, and as a whole for a GF of a major tournament it would be much more presentable. However on a good day and with a god match, Waffles and Phil can far outdo the newlyweds for hype and entertainment translation for all types of viewer; just not always consistently as with the wrong match it can kinda sap hype.

 

[S.G.]

people are blaming the wombo combo
but let's be honest

if a noob to competitive smash saw the wombo combo without commentary, would they even show the slightest interest?

 

[stabbedbyanipple]

Nah certain things can be agreed on. No one complains about Husband and Wife's commentary and I think we can all agree that those dumb ****s who were commentating the first vid of Cosmo vs MACd at POE3 shouldn't commentate again, or at the very least not like that again.

No, we can't all ****ing agree about that. Stop making assumptions.

 

[DJ Nintendo]

A good amount of people commentated at yesterday's No Johns tournament, including myself. I hope you guys will like it

 

[otg]

Next time prog, you're letting me and yaneev on the mic. You really have no choice.

 

[KAOSTAR]

I thought lucien vs falcomist was reserved yet hyped, while still informative.

 

[DJ Nintendo]

What up peoples! Check out my new thread

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=10733758#post10733758