• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Smash Commentary has to Improve

Nintendude

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 23, 2006
Messages
5,024
Location
San Francisco
The commentary in Smash matches has been bugging me for awhile. Matches with bad commentary is becoming more and more prevalent these days. It's as if they just leave a mic next to the recording station and anyone can go up and say whatever (in fact I think that's what they do). By bad commentary I mean things like not actually commenting on the match, screaming excessively when cool stuff happens, using excessive bad language, and insulting players / making jokes.

There's been a lot of talk lately about how to expand the community and get more people interested and I think a HUGE factor in that is commentary. I remember once on some digg article about Smash people were talking crap about Melee so someone posted a link to a m2k vs. shiz match. The person replied by saying "I don't get what I'm watching it just sounds like a bunch of guys having an orgasm." Indeed, that's exactly what it looks like unless you actually know what's going on. Unfortunately, people who don't play Melee competitively will have no clue what's happening and if anything it'll be a turn off.

The quality of commentary is something that's really separating Smash from professional sports and even professional Halo. Anyone can watch these events and appreciate it because the commentary is actually informative and interesting. Yes, Waffles' commentary is more fun, but it's only fun for those who know what's going on.

A lot of people look down on the Smash community as a bunch of kids playing a kiddie game. I think that bad commentary actually perpetuates this notion, because honestly, some of the commentary I've heard in matches is so bad it's embarrassing. People insulting other players, making crude jokes, referring to inside jokes, etc. Someone who already looks poorly upon the Smash community will only feel more justified after hearing the commentary in our matches.

On the other hand, good commentary would make Smash look more legit to outsiders. My dad really didn't get what all the fuss about Smash is about. He kept telling me he doesn't get how people mashing buttons and beating each other up with Nintendo characters can be competitive, but then I showed him an MLG match with Wife commentating. While he's still not convinced that Smash is legit, he now sees where I'm coming from and this is mainly due to the insight he gained from the commentary.

I think that Husband and Wife achieved a great balance of being informative and fun. They discussed strategies, counterpicks, matchup history, and other things that are extremely interesting and insightful even to people who do not play the game. I understand that it's unrealistic to expect very professional commentary because in the end we are still the Smash community, but big changes still have to be made. Stop letting idiots handle the mics and find more people like Husband and Wife who can offer quality commentary. If you can't get a good commentator, don't set up a mic at all (or just don't record it).
 

Nintendude

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 23, 2006
Messages
5,024
Location
San Francisco
Blame it on the Wombo Combo.
Indeed. The Wombo Combo led to commentary in general being a lot more mainstream, which is definitely a good thing. Now it's time to take it and refine it.

edit: I meant that the Wombo Combo made commentary more commonplace but that commentary is no good 90% of the time.
 

AlphaZealot

Former Smashboards Owner
Administrator
Premium
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 6, 2003
Messages
12,731
Location
Bellevue, Washington
I think you misunderstood. The Wombo Combo is *not*, at least in my opinion, good commentary. You brought up Husband and Wife...they would never, ever commentate that way.

Ever since that video, more people have been trying to get off one-liners/catch phrases/ and other BS that is sometimes funny and sometimes not, but on the whole has lead to a reduction in intelligent commentary in exchange for...nonsense.

I know, it comes off as harsh, and I'll probably get some flak for chastising such a popular video.
 

Nintendude

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 23, 2006
Messages
5,024
Location
San Francisco
I think you misunderstood. The Wombo Combo is *not*, at least in my opinion, good commentary. You brought up Husband and Wife...they would never, ever commentate that way.

Ever since that video, more people have been trying to get off one-liners/catch phrases/ and other BS that is sometimes funny and sometimes not, but on the whole has lead to a reduction in intelligent commentary in exchange for...nonsense.

I know, it comes off as harsh, and I'll probably get some flak for chastising such a popular video.
Actually I think you misunderstood my response. I meant that the Wombo Combo was terrible for the quality of commentary but good for the "quantity" of it. Hope that makes sense.

That style of commentary is terrible for matches. It was fun that one time but it's time to move on.
 

PK-ow!

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
Messages
1,890
Location
Canada, ON
How much knowledge does a person need to do commentary?

I've seen good commentary which at the start of it hears an admission that only 'one half of the matchup' is known. They can still sound intelligent if they discuss what's happening, and know how the game itself works. It's a fact right before their eyes what moves *are* being used, and what each player is falling for. Commentators can lend awareness of the options (since they know the movelists and rough hitboxes/speeds, at least) and bring a viewer up to the level he needs to be to appreciate what he's seeing.


That's how it is with me and Street Fighter IV, at least.



Also, I think crucial for good commentary, if you don't have a speaker as legendary-good as, like, Chris Hu, is having two people. Two people just make the commentary seem more connected to an 'audience', and a larger population beyond that. They also between them, of course, will work for more kinds of personalities, since the two people will have different tempos and energy levels. (Well, I mean, you should pick the two people this way; having two people too similar would be bad, I think.)


I don't think there are mics with the people with laptops in my area. I don't think this discussion will bear fruit over there for a while. :\
 

Dark Hart

Rejected by Azua
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Messages
11,251
Location
Death Row, North Carolina
NA, quit getting butt-hurt over your lack of hype fro awesome ****. Bring a laptop to tourneys and make your own commentary if you're that upset.

EDIT: This is a troll post.
 

Mr.Kitchen

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 9, 2007
Messages
15
Location
Los Angeles
Not that hard really. People just need to watch how people commentate in Street Fighter matches and base it off that. Right now, they have the best commentators y far.
 

Spit-wad

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 14, 2009
Messages
39
Location
Wisconsin
I appreciate how much Waffles does, but the actual commentary is pretty subpar. Screaming at exciting moments is ok, but use sparingly. I would like to see commentators refrain from using players real names - not everyone watching knows them on a first name basis. I know this can be difficult, but it would help out for a lot of viewers. Also cut down on the inside jokes.

Husband and Wife's commentary is awesome. They comment on what's actually happening in the game (not just "oh he's getting off") and they give their opinion of what each player needs to do to pull out the victory. They even include little tidbits of information that not everyone knows. They don't scream, yet they still sound very excited the whole time, and they do scream at the right times.

Swearing doesn't need to be completely removed, but there are a ton of commentaries that are just over-saturated with vulgarities. If you refrain from swearing, it will help the commentary sound more professional.
 

TheCrimsonBlur

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
Messages
3,407
Location
LA, CA near Santa Monica
Um. HMW's channel is the best channel Smash has. Look at his recent videos. The intros, annotations, anti-spoiler, and commentary are all class. Yeah, he could improve some things, like all of us can, but you guys gotta remember the quantity of videos he is commentating. Husband and Wife only do a few videos a year. Its a lot easier to comment about the Marth/Peach matchup when you wouldn't have to repeat what you said in other videos.

Right now the problem with Smash commentary isn't quality but quantity and organization. You have to subscribe to a million channels to get Smash videos, or hope there is a Video Discussion thread. An average player has a hard time getting access to all this, so our viewcounts are unnecessarily low. Also, only one region (not coincidentally HMW's region) is adequately commentated. Of course we could improve out commentary quality sometimes, but lets be real, we've had some amazing commentary moments over the years, and yes, there is a place for hype alongside real analysis.

The real problem is we have big regions without any commentary at all. HMW is the great example we should all model ourselves after. He is a huge region why Cali has become such a dominant state.
 

Jimbo Slice

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 13, 2010
Messages
246
Location
Cornville, Midwest
I have to say the best commentary I've heard to date was when Waffles and Wife commentated together like on SS vs Zhu at P4. It felt casual, relaxed, and informative. We really can't rely on Wife to go to all these tourney's and do his thing though. I just really don't want to see more DA Dave commentary where he's allowed to use epitaphs freely. Hearing the N word that much made we want to go hit people. JV was pretty legit at commentary too.
 

ranmaru

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 10, 2008
Messages
13,297
Switch FC
SW-0654 7794 0698
Lol I want to try commentary, but I may be random and weird. I probably need some guidelines before I do. : }
 

stabbedbyanipple

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
4,260
Location
Irvine, SoCal
Maybe for hype matches but at locals, no one is gonna want to commentate like that. Even if it's Mango vs HugS or something like that, because they see it all the time.

Plus, smash tournaments aren't exactly the most "professional" environment. Of course that's gonna lead to people having more laid back and less informative commentary.
 

Anth0ny

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 14, 2007
Messages
4,061
Location
Toronto, Ontario
I've noticed the biggest complaint smashers have about "professional" commentary is "they keep repeating stuff we already know". Well, hate to break it to you, but that's how it is for all commentary.

Commentary, in my opinion, should consist of the following (with bland examples!):

-play by play commentary (maybe not EVERY play ["and the fair, and the fair, and the fsmash" would sound dumb] but at least cool stuff [tippers, shine spikes, great di]
-matchup discussion
-player descriptions ("M2K hates playing Jiggs")
-matchup history ("earlier in the metagame it was assumed that Fox ***** Jiggs, but now.. who knows")
-good amount of hype ("OH AND THE BOMB BOMB")
- random RELEVANT tidbits ("Pound 4 had the biggest Melee turnout of all time")

Stuff that needs to go:
-overabundance of hype... ("OHHHHHHHHH MAH GAWDDDDDDDDDD OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH OHHHHHHHH")
-...and complete silence afterward (silence in general really... there's always something relevant to talk about. always.)
-useless stuff ("I just ate some chipotle yo, it made my *** bleed")

Just my 2 cents. I know people think it gets repetitive, but I've watched those MLG vids over and over and over of Ken vs. PC, and guys like Husband and Wife still don't sound repetitive to me.
 

ranmaru

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 10, 2008
Messages
13,297
Switch FC
SW-0654 7794 0698
Oh nice, I might keep this in mind Anthony. : ]
 

Squidster

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 3, 2008
Messages
798
Location
Southern California
This is silly

mlg commentary is geared towards players who don't play the game often or at all

waffle-esk commentary is done at local tournaments with the same 20 people every week. It isn't broadcasted, sponsored, or promotional in any way.

Wife / husband commentary is pretty good, but they wouldn't commentate like that at local tournaments every week. Wayyyyy different audience than waffle.
 

victra♥

crystal skies
Joined
Jan 20, 2007
Messages
14,275
Location
Edmonton
Slippi.gg
victra#0
im going to have to agree with squidster. Everyone is forgetting the context of some of the commentary
 

goateeguy

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 18, 2006
Messages
795
Location
right behind you
This is silly

mlg commentary is geared towards players who don't play the game often or at all

waffle-esk commentary is done at local tournaments with the same 20 people every week. It isn't broadcasted, sponsored, or promotional in any way.

Wife / husband commentary is pretty good, but they wouldn't commentate like that at local tournaments every week. Wayyyyy different audience than waffle.
The purpose of the commentary is to address the audience who's listening to it and enhance the video with information geared towards that audience. Sure, if it's a very local tournament without many big names and there really are only 20 people who are ever going to watch it, fine, get obsessed with the hype and shout OOOOOOHHHHHHHHHH!!!! like mad.

But look on youtube and see how many people are watching the videos guys like Waffles are posting. It's not just 20 people that are watching this stuff. Can you really expect every single one of them to have the same appreciation of the game that Waffles has so that he doesn't need to commentate as intelligently to get them to understand it? I don't think so.

Now please, do NOT misinterpret this as Waffles bashing. He's done so much work just to get these videos available that I would give him a salary for it if I could. But to really get those people who watch it intrigued by the nuances of the game, we need to get rid of commentary that makes it seem over-simplistic.

I got into smash by watching videos of Ken and Azen, and I would imagine that when those two unwound their controllers there was a crapload of hype running through the room. But a World Cup soccer match does not have commentary from the rabid English fanatics with St. George's cross painted all over their faces. It has commentary from calm professional athletes who know what they're talking about better than the average viewer.

For commentary to really be worth it, the guy doing it has to put aside enough of the hype to talk intelligently. If not, they should just leave the mic be.
 

Voodoo Daddy

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 7, 2006
Messages
234
Location
Towson, MD
I think what people are missing is waffles nails the big stuff and is easily the best color commentator (energy and fun comments). But by big stuff I mean things like "Lucky has to step the spacing up." The mechanistic qualities of the match, those are hard to see far less comment.

Ideally we should have Waffles and Wife and Phil and husband, but then all the commentators would be swingers...
 

Lovage

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 15, 2007
Messages
6,746
Location
STANKONIA CA
play-by-play commentary is impossible for melee, the game is wayyyyyyyyyyyyy too fast for that

the husband & wife commentary might be cool for new players i guess, but i'm fine with screaming and cursing
its melee baby get hype
 

Elec Man

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 19, 2010
Messages
14
Location
St. John's, Newfoundland
I fail to understand how anyone can find "professional" commentary to be entertaining.. it makes matches sound like documentaries rather then live professional gaming... besides this is smash not halo or street fighter
 

HomeMadeWaffles

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 9, 2006
Messages
1,623
Location
Union City, CA
i love wife and husband's commentary

husband sounds like a bro tho LOL

sometime this commentary stuff feels way over-analyzed

but either way

HATERS GON HATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

PB&J

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 25, 2007
Messages
5,758
Location
lawrenceville, GA
willis and cleatis and petey and tony commentary+dogysamich= greatest of all time

but people do need to step it up though..me,merck, and dogy was going to commentate at ceo but there was no mic on phanna's comp
 
Top Bottom