Smash Back Room Weekly Character Discussions! FINAL UPDATES: Ness + Lucas. All done!!

[habaker91]

omg guise it must be ganondorf!!!!1

 

[Skarmbliss]

It didnt mention anything about recovery. I would have to guess its Olimar because of its annoying long range grab and throwing those Pikmin. Or it could very well be Pit.

 

[psykoplympton]

obiously captain falcon

 

[marth marth marth]

im going Peach :D

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

before they mentioned projectile game i thought marth for sure. but id say pikachu

Ya, exactly my thoughts, ya, probably Pika, but I wonder what kind of mindgames were they talking about (I don't use Pika...).

But, now that I think about it, probably is Pit...

 

[Omis]

Either falco or pit, though I'm leaning towards Falco. Think about it in Japan it is falco feaver while in America people love marth(or was it the other was around)

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Falco was done a while ago, so it can't be him.

 

[BBQ°]

Update #15: ?????

Depending on the region where you live, you could think this character is horrible or that this character is incredible. And depending on who you talk to, this character could have a great matchup against Snake, or could have a bad matchup against him. But everyone can agree that this character is awesome at punishing even the smallest of openings that your opponent shows. Include this character's awesome projectile game, ridiculous priority on some attacks, and incredible mindgames because of certain techniques, this character has quite a bit of potential. But only certain people can truly use (or even see) this potential, which is likely why there is such a difference in opinion.

Can you guess who next week's character will be?

My guess - Pikachu. If you live any where near Anther, you probably think this character is incredible. If you live in GA where everyone thinks Brawl sucks, you probably wouldn't even care about Pikachu.
In my opinion, Pikachu is the Snake slayer. Pikachu's chain grabs and up-airs completely ruin Snake. Pikachu's thunder shock blows up Snake's down-smash.
Pikachu is indeed awesome at punishing small mistakes. Pika's down-smash has incredible range, nearly comes out instantly, it sucks you in, it has insane priority, it does about 20% damage uncharged, launches you in the air and can be followed by a thunder. Even if you are able to Smash DI out of it, you're still going to receive damage and get launched in the air and have the risk of a thunder. If down-smash isn't your cup of tea, you can always follow up with a down-throw or forward throw which can be used as chain grabs against many characters.
Pikachu's thunder shock is a great ground-hugging projectile. It makes Pikachu's approach very excellent if you full-hop thunder shock. It's also really annoying because they can be used as projectile traps.
Pikachu does indeed have ridiculous priority on a good number of attacks. Forward Air and Down Air's priority is full of disjointed goodness. Down-smash has insane priority. I haven't seen a single attack beat out down-smash except maybe G&W's Back Air . Neutral Air has good priority also, it comes out fast, and it kills at exceptional percentages. Thunder, although punishable, has good priority and is almost impossible to hit Pikachu out of thunder.
Pikachu's quick attack cancel can be used for extreme mind games. It's as close to wavedashing as brawl can get when used for spacing, it can be used as an escape tactic, or it can be used as a surprise attack to quickly get to your opponent and use an aerial or thunder.
If you don't think Pikachu has potential, go watch some videos of Anther on youtube.

 

[Omis]

Falco was done a while ago, so it can't be him.

Oops forgot to check who was already done.

 

[Demenise]

As soon as I started reading the hint, I was thinking, "Pikachu, Pikachu." Pikachu fits perfectly.

Olimar is my second guess, though I seriously doubt that it's him. My vote goes to Pika.

 

[keeper]

As soon as I started reading the hint, I was thinking, "Pikachu, Pikachu." Pikachu fits perfectly.

Olimar is my second guess, though I seriously doubt that it's him. My vote goes to Pika.

I agree completely.

The one reason I don't think it is Olimar is because he isn't seen as good or bad regionally.

 

[Morrigan]

It fits Peach, expect for the projectile (unless they are counting Stitchfaces, swords and bombs).
Only a few are placing really well and not everywhere. Believe it or not, she can get around Snake (not so easily though), aerial attacks priority, floating/turnip mindgames.
Many people think she is crap and quite a few can use her amazingly at this point (I'm talking about 1-10th placings)

 

[PK Hexagon]

Lol. If you take out the projectile part it fits marth completely.

 

[~Peachy~]

This may sound biased, but GOOOOOO PEACH!

Sounds like a lot of that stuff describes her.

 

[isomorphism]

It pretty much has to be Pikachu. The hint fits him perfectly. He has an advanced mindgame tech in QAC (Quick Attack Cancel), which makes him great at punishing and leads some to believe he has an advantage on Snake (though not everyone). He's got an awesome projectile game and he does well regionally but is barely used elsewhere. And check out the priority on that D-Smash! I would be very surprised if any character fit the hint better than he does (though without the projectile part it sounded a little like Donkey Kong or Marth).

 

[Gory snake]

BBQ pretty much explained why it should be Pika.

 

[UnSaxon51]

Let's narrow this down based on the less-debatable hints

1. Awesome projectile. Who's left that has a projectile? (* indicates above average)
Fox
Ice Climbers
Lucario*
Lucas
Luigi
Mario
Ness
Olimar*
Peach
Pikachu*
Pit*
P. Trainer
Sheik
Yoshi
Zamus

Now that we're down to three, let's check
2. Ridiculous priority
Lucario - Moderate priority, mostly because of weird hitboxes
Olimar - If your hit doesn't kill the Pikmin, it's probably going to hit you
Pikachu - All smashes have stupid-good priority, as do many aerials
Pit - Some hits have great priority, others have virtually none.

Wrap it up with
3. Mindgame techniques
Lucario - None that I'm aware of (don't think Dair-SHFFL counts)
Olimar - Pikmin Order gives super armor and let's you change up your strategy
Pikachu - Quick Attack Cancel and Reverse Aerial Thunder
Pit - Wingdashing, Arrow loops, and more

I think it's pretty obvious that Pikachu is the best fit here to start with, followed by Pit and Olimar. This is supported by the fact that all three of them are sort of "local flavors". None of them is considered a widespread threat, but all of them deserve to be feared in the right hands. Plus, in my opinion they are all really good Snake counters.
Lucario isn't really debated on whether or not he's good, just whether or not you like playing with him.

 

[Demenise]

I agree completely.

The one reason I don't think it is Olimar is because he isn't seen as good or bad regionally.

General consensus says that Olimar is mostly great, as well as extremely annoying. However, around where I live, I hear a LOT of people who say that Olimar sucks (for some weird reason.) This is what got me, too; general consensus says that he's high tier.

 

[Doctor X]

Pika or Pit... I'm more inclined to say Pit due to personal bias.

 

[MK26]

Update #15: ?????

Characters not done yet:
Bowser
Charizard
Donkey Kong
Fox
Ice Climbers
Ike
Ivysaur
Jigglypuff
Lucario
Lucas
Luigi
Mario
Marth
Ness
Olimar
Peach
Pikachu
Pit
Shiek
Sonic
Squirtle
Wario
Yoshi
Zero Suit Samus

Depending on the region where you live, you could think this character is horrible or that this character is incredible. And depending on who you talk to, this character could have a great matchup against Snake, or could have a bad matchup against him. But everyone can agree that this character is awesome at punishing even the smallest of openings that your opponent shows.

Ignore everything above here, I'll get to this later.

Include this character's awesome projectile game,

Characters with awesome projectiles:
Fox
Lucario
Lucas
Luigi
Mario
Ness
Olimar
Pikachu
Pit
Yoshi


ridiculous priority on some attacks,


Lucario
Lucas
Luigi
Ness
Olimar
Pikachu


and incredible mindgames because of certain techniques,

Pikachu

this character has quite a bit of potential. But only certain people can truly use (or even see) this potential, which is likely why there is such a difference in opinion.

Hmmm...Pikachu can be thought to be good or bad, and might have an advantage vs. Snake, so he/she/it/rat works

Can you guess who next week's character will be?

Yes. But I'm not telling.

5char
5more

 

[infomon]

I'll admit that it does match Pikachu very well. Except...... is there really a place where people think he's horrible? Where is this deluded fantasy-land!?

I mean, I can see some ppl thinking he's "decent but not amazing"... perhaps the types that think anyone who isn't MK or Snake is not worth considering. But horrible, just doesn't seem to match.....

I'd like to say Ness, but that's not quite right, and neither is Peach. Pit's quite possible, but I'ma have to guess Pika.

 

[Solaris1110]

and incredible mindgames because of certain techniques,

Pikachu
Lucas

Spoiler

10charizards

 

[aeolous]

I'm definitely going to say it's Pikachu, because he fits everything perfectly. The only thing that kind of threw me off, as has been said, was the regional aspect, but then, I don't know what people in other regions think, and I'm sure that there are people who remember Melee pika sucking and assume the same would be true in Brawl for whatever reason. After him would be pit or maybe olimar, but I don't think it will come to that.

 

[WITH]

ice climbers

In some regions their chain grab is banned, so without it many would consider them horrible. Ice blocks are great cuz they cancel most other projectiles and set up for attacks. The snake matchup i guess depends on how "easy" it is to avoid the infinate. Incredible mind games because of desynching. Only some people can use them right because desynching takes a different kind of brain and the chain grab is absurdly hard to pull off consistantly. Awesome priority is the hammer or specials. Awesome at punishing the slightest openings because of the chain grab.

I don't believe they would outright say chain grab for ICs, so thats why I think this might be them.

Sorry if that was badly organized.

 

[Browny]

i dont see how pikachu has ridiculous priority on some attacks. his u-air is the only thing i can think of that seems to beat out other characters' dair often. i dont suspect his dsmash will have priority over any sword users either.

i say either lucario or olimar. both have u-airs, usmash, fsmash and nairs that seem to go through everything, good projectiles, and very threatening combos on anyone who gets caught in them at low %. and of course the whole vs snake thing, which suits them both.

 

[nightSN]

im going for pikachu for this.

 

[infomon]

ice climbers

In some regions their chain grab is banned, so without it many would consider them horrible. Ice blocks are great cuz they cancel most other projectiles and set up for attacks. The snake matchup i guess depends on how "easy" it is to avoid the infinate. Incredible mind games because of desynching. Only some people can use them right because desynching takes a different kind of brain and the chain grab is absurdly hard to pull off consistantly. Awesome priority is the hammer or specials. Awesome at punishing the slightest openings because of the chain grab.

It's not ice climbers. Their projectile is useful for their approach etc., but it's far from being an "awesome projectile game". None of their attacks have ridiculous priority. It seems like it sometimes though, because some of their aerials have good disjointed hitboxes, side-B has some invincibility frames at the start, and up-B has an invincible Nana :-) but none of that's priority; their ground attacks just have decent priority. In Melee it was ridiculous >.>

You'd only consider ICs horrible if you weren't around for Melee (see: ChuDat), or are otherwise ignorant of their potential. Then again, I don't know who thinks Pikachu's horrible either.... Also I think the IC forum considers them a fairly bad match-up against Snake.

Sorry if that was badly organized.

It was totally fine IMO; but I'm quite disorganized myself :-)

 

[The Star King]

W00t! My guess was right! C. Falcon!

Let's see if this is right. I'm fairly certain the next one is Pikachu. Everything Panda said describes Pikachu. I was listening to the SMYN podcast live yesterday, and Panda said that some people think Pikachu is a good matchup against Snake, and some think it's a bad matchup against Snake, and that he personally thinks Snake gets destroyed by Pikachu. Pikachu has two chainthrows on Snake, f-throw and d-throw! Pikachu has a great projectile game, great priority, and has the Quick-attack cancel technique, which opens up a lot of mindgames....

Wow, I just read the other posts, many people seem to think it's Pikachu. I wasn't influenced! =O

 

[stealthsushi]

I'm going to venture out and say its Sheik. Needles, Chain Jacket, Vanish Tricks... discarded by many, loved by few.... decent priority here and there.

Go Sheik!!

 

[Mr.Victory07]

It's Pikachu.......

 

[Evilpenguin]

Pikachu definitely fits the hint, but there are other possibilities.

Lucas fits most, if not all, of the hint. He has 2 great projectiles. A lot of his moves seem to have high priority. His smashes are also good punishers (all kill around 100%) He also has the zap jump mindgame. The only thing I see that doesn't fit the hint is the fact that I've never actually heard any non-Lucas-mainer say that he was very good.

ICs also fit well. Although they're projectile game usually isn't good (and doesn't fit the hint), it is useful when desynched, so maybe it would fit the hint there. They also can punish just by grabbing. smashes out of grabs and chaingrabs are great. Speaking of chaingrabs... those sound like the techniques referenced in the hint (notice the hint says techniques not technique). They also have decent priority, but nothing great that stands out to me.

The final possibility that I see is Olimar, but that's very unlikely. His projectile game would only be "great" against someone who lets pikmin latch on. But, his priority is great, his smashes have great range (and therefore punish well), and there are many varied views on him. I think he's the best fit for the part about the snake matchup and the regional opinions.

with all that said, I think I'll pick Pikachu, with ICs as a second choice. But I figured I'd throw in a few other thoughts that came to mind.

 

[Semmick]

Prolly Pikachu

 

[Al_Di_Medola]

i was gonna say wario, until he mentioned projectiles >.>

 

[exyk]

the # 15 is peach i think

 

[RikotheFoxKid]

i think it's either pikachu or fox.

my bets are on fox, though

 

[Olimarman]

I think its Olimar, but I think hes good in both regions. I may be wrong.

 

[hugglebunny]

how could it be pika, is ther one place where people think that he is bad????????

besides itz probably pit or olimar

 

[1170]

Ice climbers. I think some people in the southwest son't like their cg's, and they do have awesome mindgames. Their priority is sweet, too.

 

[rinoH]

it has to be pit

 

[Rhubarbo]

It's Lucario or Ice Climbers because of the mind games comment