Official + Smash 4 [VIC] General Thread - Next events: MILTIM 11 JUN, CWMELEE+PM 18 JUN, CW S4ROA 25 JUN

[Karnu]

That Lucas rep, Jamwa!

 

[Attila_]

yeah i lost to Atilla
how is YI worse for diddy? can explain pls (i am of genuine concern)

Lucas has a harder time on yi than Diddy does.

Lucas loses his camp game, and can't pressure from above. Diddy has trouble cancelling his sideB, but gains a recovery buff and ledge buff from the wall.

 

[Jamwa]

^
also lucas' grab doesn't work ever
maybe i should play Ness on YI, but that means i cant use pkf up slopes

conclusion: YI OP ban pls ty

 

[Karnu]

No way, Lucario likes YI.

 

[Splice]

Diddy beats Lucas on YI.
But Diddy beats Lucas.

If there is stage where Diddy loses 30% of his abilities, and Lucas loses 40% of his abilities...
That's a good trade of for Lucas.

Gotta roll with the punches when you main a low tier piece of trash little boy.

 

[Jei Jei]

Ok so...I don't know if Leisha is the TO or actually head of Smash or running Brawl or someone else is running Melee or Leisha is running everything or what ever lol. But seeing as though nothing is really being done about monthlies I'm happy to continue as Brawl TO because no one actually consulted me this year about my position last year, which was Brawl TO, which I never agreed to step down from.

The OP has been updated as you may have noticed, the next tournament (and last before BAM) will be May the 4th (be with you).
It appears that not many people agreed with the Apex rule set but I can't be entirely sure so people please speak up, mostly about stage lists.

And Leisha or Attila or whoever the hell is in charge please get in touch with me with what's going on. If you are unable to commit 100% to the dates given to us by SL then let me know because I'm happy to keep things rolling. I want to run tournaments. Being taken out of being involved with no one actually talking to me about it confuses the hell out of me. Not being acknowledged or thanked that I covered you when you both couldn't make it is even worse.

Just venting a little bit.

 

[Jamwa]

I enjoy the stagelist in the OP with YI not being a starter. Idm playing on it game 2 it's inevitable unless im vsing splices diddy

wait Jei you have 2 different stage lists in the OP and first comment

 

[Jei Jei]

Yeah the first comment is just the Apex ruleset. I got lazy. People were talking about using the Apex ruleset, I tried it out.

Personally I preferred the OP rule set myself.

 

[thomashillish]

Props for stepping up Jei. I'm sure everyone appreciates it.

I also prefer the stagelist in OP

 

[ViVa]

Starter: FD, BF, SV.
CP: Lylat, Yoshi's, Frigate, Stadium 1, Halberd, Castle Siege, Delfino.

Thoughts?

 

[Dekar289]

don't get hyped - jan 2012
brawl ruleset lives on

 

[Splice]

Starter: FD, BF, SV.
CP: Lylat, Yoshi's, Frigate, Stadium 1, Halberd, Castle Siege, Delfino.

Thoughts?

This is optimal. Conservative starters with semi-conservative Counterpicks. Just coz we let Halberd and Delfino into CP's doesn't mean we need 5 starters. I support this, not particularly because it takes out Yoshi's from starters, but because if we have Yoshi's we need 5 starters, which means Lylat or PS1, which are terrible terrible starters that are notoriously complained about.

I think Halberd and Delfino contribute heaps to some MU's and give some characters a chance, as much as I hate Delfino (Attila knows...)

But Frigate and Siege are... pretty weird. I wouldn't miss them, it's up to the people/majority/women.

 

[Attila_]

i've talked to jei outside of swf, and it's all good. looks like jei will be running a tourney on the 4th. i'll make sure that SLHQ is ready for us.

i dont think anyone has ever expressed distaste for the starter status of ps1, all the gripes i've heard are to do with lylat.

that being said, i don't mind the 3 or 5 starter list.

i would like frigate removed from counter though.

 

[S.D]

Melee for the 4th? Who's going?

 

[Jei Jei]

I like Viva's list

Minus frigate and cs.

 

[Redact]

i should be sam, dont see why i wouldnt be

 

[Ledge_g2]

The only reason I see frigate being banned is that its an unreliable counter. Which isn't a good enough reason imo.
The only prob I have with 3 starters is that first strikers get a disadvantage. It seems odd that YI won't be a starter, especially when fd is one. My opinion is leaning more towards having 5 starters, meh.

How about keep castle and frigate and have 2 cp bans?

 

[Shaya]

HONESTLY GUYS.

I think Rainbow Cruise is a fairer/safer counterpick than Frigate Orpheon.

When we wanted to get rid of Rainbow due to MK, no one around the joint was super sexy platform cancelling protier.
I don't think people realise that every single surface except dropping blocks and the ship may be platform cancelled.

And MK sucks at platform cancelling.

It's definitely my second favourite "skill level required" stage after PS2. :3

 

[ViVa]

I have no problems with Siege, Frigate or Cruise. I will admit they are weird stages, but I think players should be given weird options like these for their CP as they can significantly change how MUs are, which is what CPs should do.

 

[YoshiAustralia]

I like Jei's cp list, and yeas I'm glad you stepped up to the plate as TO. 4th shud b fine, but I shud double check

 

[Jamwa]

Starter: FD, BF, SV.
CP: Lylat, Yoshi's, Frigate, Stadium 1, Halberd, Castle Siege, Delfino.

Thoughts?

I think this is optimal, and as Splice said if we were to have YI in the starters, PS1 to be the 5th starter would make me overly happy, and Lylat as the 5th makes me depressed (in terms of stage goodness for my character) so its probably best to have this list imo. Others might see it differently i dunno. the diversity means new stuff to try for counterpicks and 3 starters ensures a neutral agreement for the starter stage.
I'm not really sure about Frigate or Rainbow Cruise or Castle Siege. Frigate is cray

 

[Dekar289]

why in the world wouldn't you just run the BAM stagelist since BAM is 2 weeks after this
(even tho those stages suck)

bam brawl stages

Spoiler

Stage List

Starters
Battlefield
Final Destination
Lylat Cruise
Smashville
Yoshi’s Island (Brawl)

Counterpicks
Battleship Halberd
Pokemon Stadium 1
Delfino Plaza
Frigate Orpheon

 

[Jei Jei]

That was the stage list we just ran. No one likes it lol

 

[Attila_]

i like it, although i think frigate is banworthy.

it's the only stage on the list without a ledge on one side, and is completely random as to how long it spends on each transformation.

at least delphino transforms in a set order according to a time limit.

if people want it, that's fine with me. but it is a force ban for a number of characters in the cast.

 

[Karnu]

The wanting of bans on Frigate makes me sad and such. </3

Leave some love for the Lucarios <3

 

[ViVa]

Run BAM stagelist until after BAM?

 

[Splice]

Guys, what does it matter about the rearrangement of Starters - CPs?
They are the same stages, we'll have just as much practice across the stages so it won't hurt anyone if we change it.
I don't think it's a great time to start discussing the comeback of Rainbow Cruise though...

In regards to Frigate and Siege
I don't understand Siege. No lie, I have no right to make a statement on it.

But Frigate, for it's ****ty right hand platform and it's unwillingness to conform to it's chooser's wishes and expectations, going from 1 end to the total opposite in terms of stage layout advantages, make it worthless as a competitive item in our stagelist.

 

[Ledge_g2]

Why is worthless a means for ban? The more options the better imo. It's not really destroying any character more than say Lylat could.

I like the stage list we just ran too. Although if it were to change I'd say maybe switch lylat with PS1 starter and add in rainbow cruise with 2 bans.

 

[Jamwa]

Frigate is just too different as a stage
We might as well bring Brinstar into the CPs (I think it's less harsh a stage compared to Frigate)

Unless you guys think Brinstar is a great idea then hell yeah

Lylat is random, but manageable for most of the cast, and only a few characters will ban it opposed to many of the cast banning Frigate (bcoz cray).
Rainbow Cruise I am keen to try out because it seems interesting.
Siege has walk-offs (easily avoidable tho). I wouldn't play on it but I wouldn't ban it.
Adding PS1 to the starter would be good for me, but I don't like it anyway because its not really a true 'starter' when compared to BF/FD/SV. 3 ftw

 

[Shaya]

Frigate is just meta knight camping safely during the double ledge/side platform part and making aggressive freewin plays on the ledgeless part.

BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHUMBUG.

 

[Splice]

The more options the better imo. Why not add the choice of rolling dice as a CP? If I get 3 or less, you can counterpick me on my counterpick, and if i get 4 or higher, I can pick ANY STAGE IN THE GAME?

p.s I am describing Frigate.

 

[Splice]

I made a new avatar for you Jamwa pls use it

 

[Ledge_g2]

The more options the better imo. Why not add the choice of rolling dice as a CP? If I get 3 or less, you can counterpick me on my counterpick, and if i get 4 or higher, I can pick ANY STAGE IN THE GAME?

p.s I am describing Frigate.

Coming from an ex GaW main who loved to incorporate judgement into his play...
I don't mind so much. Don't think I would CP frigate (apart from against zss & ICs) anyway.

Brinstar is ******** for timeouts.

 

[Timic83]

LOVE ME, YOU KNOW I'D SOLVE ALL YOUR PROBLEMS

 

[Jamwa]

LOVE ME, YOU KNOW I'D SOLVE ALL YOUR PROBLEMS

OMG MVC MAP http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NT0ftUWkWAA

SECOND MATCH NEW META 2:35

Frigate is more dumb than Brinstar
you can die from transformations, either because you're in the wrong spot, hit into the wrong spot, or recovering.
you cant grab the ledge on the right side.
the ledge can move away from people recovering on the right hand side.

Brinstar cons:
if you jump in the lava it does 15% because you jumped in the lava haha newb

yeah brinstar is dumb, but it's better than frigate no frigate pls

splice the dp is fab

 

[Splice]

Coming from an ex GaW main who loved to incorporate judgement into his play...

What does that actually have to do with the discussion? First of all you clearly miss the gravity of what Frigate does because while the chance of getting a judgement can win games the fact that it might give me a 1 isn't going to singlehandedly lose me the game. Plus, judgement is a move and it's contact depends on both players inputs. Just because the knockback and damage of the move is random does not change the fact that whether or not I hit with the move in the first place is not random. Or at least,as random as any other move that may make contact with you. Second of all the fact that you are trying to use information against me (That I play GnW?) is uncalled for and does nothing for the point you are making.

GnW has utility in his Uair, Nair, UpB and Usmash that make him worthwhile in situations. He is bad and you dont have to pick him but I don't think you have to ban him just because he is often worthless (arguably). Because he is a character and Frigate is a stage they are pretty hard to compare and shouldn't be judged by the same standards in the first place. Picking GnW does not give me a 50% chance of having a favourable MU. No, if I pick GnW against MK I will always have a bad MU. If I pick GnW against Lucas I will always have a good MU (unless it's Jamwa). But If I am playing Olimar against MK and I CP him to Frigate... then there is 50% that winning will be nigh on impossible, and 50% chance that it'll be one of the greatest possible counterpicks in the game for me.
I feel our metagame is better without this mechanic, even if it does not occur frequently and we do not utilize Frigate much down here.

I'm not sure what you're trying to argue Gary but trying to pick at people does you no favours.
You have not made a single point towards why Frigate is helpful or useful towards the metagame in anyway.
Additionally most people do not like to play on it so it's not really adding any variety that anyone wants.
Please sit down

 

[Dekar289]

doesn't frigate turn upside-down? and sometimes a part or parts of the stage have no ledge? and even scrolls off the screen?

doesn't brinstar have the lava? and you're able to split the stage?

 

[Ledge_g2]

What does that actually have to do with the discussion? First of all you clearly miss the gravity of what Frigate does because while the chance of getting a judgement can win games the fact that it might give me a 1 isn't going to singlehandedly lose me the game. Plus, judgement is a move and it's contact depends on both players inputs. Just because the knockback and damage of the move is random does not change the fact that whether or not I hit with the move in the first place is not random. Or at least,as random as any other move that may make contact with you. Second of all the fact that you are trying to use information against me (That I play GnW?) is uncalled for and does nothing for the point you are making.

GnW has utility in his Uair, Nair, UpB and Usmash that make him worthwhile in situations. He is bad and you dont have to pick him but I don't think you have to ban him just because he is often worthless (arguably). Because he is a character and Frigate is a stage they are pretty hard to compare and shouldn't be judged by the same standards in the first place. Picking GnW does not give me a 50% chance of having a favourable MU. No, if I pick GnW against MK I will always have a bad MU. If I pick GnW against Lucas I will always have a good MU (unless it's Jamwa). But If I am playing Olimar against MK and I CP him to Frigate... then there is 50% that winning will be nigh on impossible, and 50% chance that it'll be one of the greatest possible counterpicks in the game for me.
I feel our metagame is better without this mechanic, even if it does not occur frequently and we do not utilize Frigate much down here.

I'm not sure what you're trying to argue Gary but trying to pick at people does you no favours.
You have not made a single point towards why Frigate is helpful or useful towards the metagame in anyway.
Additionally most people do not like to play on it so it's not really adding any variety that anyone wants.
Please sit down

Umm, I wasn't making any point, only a joke. Geez.
I didn't say any reasons to keep Frigate because I gave up defending, since no one seems to like it anyway.

 

[Splice]

Please sit down

 

[Attila_]

in any case, i'd say we stick to the proposed ruleset. it's realistically too late to trial things now. we'll go into ruleset discussion again after BAM, in preparartion for SS.