SINGLES Lucario Match-Ups and Directory! Mario will brb saving a princess

[iRJi]

About what? A metagame that is completely unsuitable for their character of choice?


It's a horrible idea to simply speed through our matchup discussions for the sole purpose of discussing a metagame in which the character of discussion is not only fail at, but has so many variables it's almost pointless to attempt to cover all of them.

Seriously, either do the matchup rediscussions simultaneously with this new project, or completely pretend this new project never existed and focus entirely on the matchup discussions. Those are really the best options. To half-*** a matchup thread for a doubles discussion is foolhardy. :\

Ok...

1) The Mu thread for singles is completed. For one fact, I did not speed through any of them, and I actually had a nice time table for each one. Give n the fact that 2 people out of the aprox. 15 people that post in this thread alone said that I might have been moving too fast, I gave way more extra time then needed on the last 3 MU's. As a result, within that extra time, NO **** PERSON POSTED. It was an empty discussion with the extra given time, and therefore it was proven that the extra time given was not important enough. Because of this, I nulled the extra time given and started going back to the 5 day format of doing MU's. So before you start blaming **** on people saying that we/I rushed through it, you need to check the facts before hand. It is all fun and games on everyone's opinion until I get thrown into the mix, and with a poor explanation of only you as of right now saying that I rushed it, that point is almost pointless. Then, to top it off, after giving more time to talk about the MU's, not a simple person posted unless I said that we still need information. Ask DD also, he is the one who actually IMed me about it saying how the extra time was not needed because no one is doing anything productive with it, and of course, it was how I felt about it as well. (Not actually felt either, it was just the straight facts.) Blame yourself, not me, phil, or any person who was actually contributing to the MU talks.

2) I don't think you noticed yet, but you are the only one who is complaining. As of right now, you are the only one who is saying Lucario is pointless in doubles. As of right now, you are the only one who feels like this is a waste of time. So in conclusion, since it is only you who feels this way, then maybe you should just not help or contribute in anyway. It saves you the heart ache of going through this and it won't waste your time. I emphasize you because it is obviously only you that is having an issue with this.

3)We did cover all of the MU's actually. I only rediscussed the ones that were really outdated, as most of the other MU's were actually accurate on their information. As of this point, if you want to add something to the MU's, post in the exports. That is what they are their for.

Take the negativity somewhere else. We do have a LGD, rant their. Make a blog about how sad you feel about Lucario being supposedly bad in doubles. You can even make a social group with all of the people who prob. think the same way you do about it, and you can talk about it there, but for the sake of everyone's sanity, stop pulling your rants in this particular thread please. It will save a lot of players, posters, and me a ****load of time not making these long posts just about... you.

Edit: Forgot to mention, Doubles MU's will be starting either tonight, or tomorrow morning ^_^.

 

[Vionce]

Seriously, either do the matchup rediscussions simultaneously with this new project, or completely pretend this new project never existed and focus entirely on the matchup discussions. Those are really the best options. To half-*** a matchup thread for a doubles discussion is foolhardy. :\

THere are exports for a reason. You should be able to find a link to all of them in the first post of the MU thread.

 

[Sesshomuronay]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=237768

The wolf boards are rediscussing the licario matchup. So like help or something.

 

[The_Bear735]

Lucario is a terrible character and you should feel terrible for using him in the doubles environment.

Have you ever considered the possibility that you just can't DI/Stock tank well enough to actually use him efficiently?

About what? A metagame that is completely unsuitable for their character of choice?


It's a horrible idea to simply speed through our matchup discussions for the sole purpose of discussing a metagame in which the character of discussion is not only fail at, but has so many variables it's almost pointless to attempt to cover all of them.

Seriously, either do the matchup rediscussions simultaneously with this new project, or completely pretend this new project never existed and focus entirely on the matchup discussions. Those are really the best options. To half-*** a matchup thread for a doubles discussion is foolhardy. :\

If you could give legitimate reasons as to why Lucario is bad in doubles, you'd maybe have a point. All you've been reiterating is "LUCARIO IS BAD IN DOUBLES BECAUSE I SAID SO BLEHHHHHH ", which just doesn't suffice in a legitimate discussion. Even the nubs tried to substantiate their arguments at some point. You're worse than the average lolucario.

 

[Col. Stauffenberg]

Funny, I felt like I was somehow channeling the spirit of Bear when making that rebuke to Kita. And here he is.

 

[The_Bear735]

Funny, I felt like I was somehow channeling the spirit of Bear when making that rebuke to Kita. And here he is.

I'm really only here because I was requested to eat Kita.

 

[Col. Stauffenberg]

I don't think anyone's going to stop you.

 

[iRJi]

Ok, I am sorry i didn't get anything started. I had things I had to do today that was really important. Since its kind of late now, and tomorrow is new years eve/new years, I am going to start this on the 2nd of Jan. Everyone enjoy your holidays ^_^.

 

[Braxton2011]

It depends on your partner's character. I mean, having a partner like Game and Watch helps GREATLY, but then you have characters like Mario, who can help, but not as great, he can gimp the hell out of who ever has a one-sided recovery (IE Snake)

 

[IceDX]

IMO Lucario needs a Fast Character as partner in doubles that can get him out of trouble.

I may not have all my facts straight but Lucario needs to be the one on the offensive wile your partner plays safe...

Characters that could be a good doubles partner for Lucario:

MK, Fox, Marth.


thats it i woulnt like any other character as my doubles partner.
but again this is only IMO...

 

[iRJi]

O.k. Since I am stepping out tomorrow to a tournament, I am going to get this started now. Our First Team is:

Lucario and MK

Just to help out a bit, here is the order I am going in.

How the character supports Lucario/How Lucario supports the character
Team Combos/strategies
Team combinations that can hurt them/Help them/Stages

Here is also a few things that can help out if you keep this in mind:

How does the partner support you? How do you support your teammate?

What tactics or strategies should we employ? (camping, Anubis, etc.) What tactics or strategies should your partner employ?

What are the advantages for Lucario for teaming with the character in question? What are the disadvantages?
What are the overall weaknesses of the given team? What opposing characters would take advantage of these weaknesses?
What are the overall strengths of the team, and which teams would these advantages work well against?
What stages should be considered for the team, and which ones should be avoided?
What is the rate of the team's overall effectiveness, and any last tips on how to make it stronger?

Hope this gets started well ^_^.

Lets start with:

How the character supports Lucario/How Lucario supports the character.

Go

 

[ShippoFoxFire]

MetaKnight and Lucario as a team is pretty solid.
Metaknight has enough field pressence to support Lucario when he is in trouble, and metaknight has a lot combo/setups with Lucario.
I think the overall weakness to this team though is double metaknight, where 1 can hold the other, while lucario can be overwhelmed by the other meta.

 

[culexus・wau]

Someone Explain the Anubis Strategy.

 

[ShippoFoxFire]

Someone Explain the Anubis Strategy.

Lucario and Partner.

partner planks, Lucario Aggro's both opponents. Lucario gains massive aura the whole match.

 

[culexus・wau]

Well I already got the general idea.

I meant

like

in depth

 

[RT]

That's really it.

Lucario gets to last stock while partner doesn't. Doesn't matter if Lucario kills opponent or not, because if his partner keeps three stocks, he still gets a Aura boost. Lucario starts killing people at like 50%. Works best with MK because of planking. It sounds terrible on paper, but Lee Martin and Dphat/other players have done a pretty good job with it overall.

I mean, if you could do it with a G&W planking so you can get Aura strategy plus buckets...that would be amazing. The Lucario player has to know how to handle himself once he's on his last stock to take full advantage.

 

[Aurasmash14]

Lucario and Partner.

partner planks, Lucario Aggro's both opponents. Lucario gains massive aura the whole match.

sound boring.... but effective.

probably the best way to go about this though, is to show some videos that give great examples.
show me yur vids!

 

[iRJi]

Well I already got the general idea.

I meant

like

in depth

sound boring.... but effective.

probably the best way to go about this though, is to show some videos that give great examples.
show me yur vids!

I am heading out to a tourney today, ill see if i can get some replays saved from my matches, because I do the strat. Also, there are some videos around of lee doing it. If someone would be kind of pulling them up and linking it to everyone, because I can't do it right now. About to head out.

But until the vids, you can still go about how useful MK is to lucario/ vise versa, and how he can hurt him too, vise versa. So start with that.

have fun everyone. Ill post my idea's about it when I get back.

 

[TaterSalad0811]

I think it's more or Meta's grabs to Lucario's smashes (namely F-smash). Thing about it, MK has a good "running" grab, and his down, forward, and back throws are easy to predict where the opponent gets launched. And even if the opponent doesn't lose the stock, MK opens his 40 LB. box of RAEP once they get offstage. Aura spam/camping and generally focusing on good stalling moves (f-tilt, f-air, and jab-combos) to keep the teammate at bay until MK has finished with the first opponent.

P.S. Falcon lulz

 

[iRJi]

To make mine fast, Lucario and MK have amazing team work.

One thing that Metaknight brings lucario is stage control. Metaknight's ability to make people shield in doubles really comes in handy. Also, due to the fact that Metaknight can cover many, many options, all lucario has to do is play support on most occasions and clean up when metaknight leaves himself open. The best thing that this team brings is the Anubis strategy, and because of this it makes Lucario teamning with Metaknight one of the best possible team combinations.

The main downfall is the stock tanking for this team if you are not using the Anubis strategy. Although Lucario is almost considered a heavy weight,he still isn't heavy enough to support as an amazing stock tank overall, although he can do the job.

 

[Aurasmash14]

MK alone could already take on 2 opponents (so long as not MK as well)

Lucario just acts as backup =D

 

[TaterSalad0811]

But having lucario in a more active position makes the Anubis strategy more versatile, and with MK's recovery, he's practically all the stock tank we need.

 

[Aurasmash14]

Lucario just isn't as overwhelming as MK though. If 2 people were two gun for Lucario, he'll still die pretty quickly.

 

[ShippoFoxFire]

Lucario just isn't as overwhelming as MK though. If 2 people were two gun for Lucario, he'll still die pretty quickly.

Meta Knight is def one of the best possible characters to prevent a double gank on Lucario.

 

[TaterSalad0811]

Well of course MK gonna do well, he's (if not snake) the most overused character in the game, so he'll develop more than anybody (except maybe snake) so the MK combo is obvious, so can we get a little creative here?

 

[iRJi]

Everyone is seeming to be ... vague on their information. Please give more insight ^_^

 

[phi1ny3]

I'm actually against pure planking, there are a lot of calls that I think MK really has to think on (like D3 CG -> super deadly kill move from partner), even if it isn't strictly "grab ****". So I think the best solution is for MK to actually get the partner in crime so to speak in dthrow or some time consuming move that does some good damage as well, to let you have the optimum time to get away from the other opponent, I think also there's a strong and weak side depending on which side Lucario resides in relation to the planking MK, a really good planker can chase off edgeguarders with the benefit of some really good anti-edgeguarding tools, while Lucario in turn while onstage can harass the "anti-planker" pretty badly as well as long as he's on the side his partner's planking on.

 

[Kitamerby]

Meta Knight is def one of the best possible characters to prevent a double gank on Lucario.

In that case you should just go MK yourself and save yourself the trouble. <<

 

[IceDX]

In that case you should just go MK yourself and save yourself the trouble. <<

Why do you bother posting here?? If you are just going to make people waste time reading your unhelpful hate filled posts

 

[Browny]

spent too much time with the troll king L_Cancel imo

dont make lucario cry again kita

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

If your going to do the Anubis strategy, make sure Lucario can handle the two characters on stage and MK can plank well against the two onstage.

And avoid timeouts if a ledge-grab rule is in effect.

 

[Gnes]

This. It really depends on the team you are facing. Dphat/Lee Martin tried it against Dojo/ADHD at Hobo 21 and well...it didn't work, to say the least. <_<

They didnt team at hobo 21...dphat/fk and lee/zac.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58b6ForL4fc

The epitome of lucario in doubles.

 

[Zucco]

They didnt team at hobo 21...dphat/fk and lee/zac.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58b6ForL4fc

The epitome of lucario in doubles.

wow, amazing.

 

[DallasPhat]

Whenever I get home I'll gladly give my two cents on the strategy because from what I read none of y'all understand how the Anubis strategy quite work. I'll be sure to go in depth why mk/wario/gnw are lucario best option for a teammate. Anyways who named it Anubis? Me and lee didn't get a say on the name .

Anyways the strategy is what I consider a glass cannon and is thus pretty fragile. The team also require alot of trust and communication (me and lee are constantly talking whenever we team). The lucario needs to trust the tank to not get hit and the tank needs to trust the lucario to be able to handle the 2v1 since helping him may possibly jeopardize the tank and if the tank dies first the team completely crumbles. So tanks, let the lucario do his thing and avoid all conflicts. The Anubis strategy is basically abusing lucario aura by permanently making him significantly stronger by having a teammate not lose a stock. Instead of relying on the opponent stock to manipulate lucario aura, he instead relies on his teammate to have a significant stock advantage thus giving him a boost. Easiest way for the tank to hold stock is through planking thus the most popular methods. Anyways pros and cons for the Anubis Strategy.

Pros:

• Ridiculously early percent kills (Fully charged Aura sphere will kill around 50% if Lucario at 1 stock 70% and his partner still has all 3 of his)
• Lucario an underused character so few knows the match up very well
• Not a commonly used strategy (Element of surprise thus highly likely you'll win game 1)
• Lucario gets to play aggressive with almost no repercussion (Lucario losing a stock makes the strategy even more effective)

Cons:

• Difficult to pull off at high level play (Lucario is forced to do basically 2v1 a majority of the time)
• Requires alot of trust between partners (Lucario got to trust the tank to stay alive, while the tank is forced to trust the lucario to handle the 2v1 regardless of whats happening)
• Very fragile is known as a glass cannon (If the tank loses the stock first you're even in a more dire situation then normal as Lucario is now 20% weaker)
• Suspect able to ohkos (one hit ko's) IE omnigay/buckets

Overall I believe only a few lucario mains can do this as effectively as lee. To be frank only a few lucarios are comparable to lee but if the team is done correctly I doubt you'll lose game 1 as the strategy is so unique it's difficult to adjust to. (Proven true as Lee and I have had major success for the last couple of months as seen in winterfest and nokoast2).

Now let's look up possible partners that can tank efficiently.

The first obvious choice would be of course metaknight.
Reason why are the following:

• Easy to avoid conflict via through planking/scrooging
• Easy to rack up damage on off stage opponents
• Easy to gimp a majority of the cast
• Can save lucario from getting gimped

Overall covers alot of weaknesses that lucario has such as building up damage and lucario tend to be gimped early. Only major weakness is mk lack stamina but through planking you shouldn't worry about getting hit to often even against other mks.

Other effective characters for the anubis strategy are gnw and wario.

GnW advantages:

• Easy to plank (Almost as effective as MK)
• Difficult to gimp
• Good ko power
• Buckets!!!!
• Can save lucario pretty easily
• Bucket braking

GnW another popular partner for lucario, GnW only real weakness is that he's a very difficult character to play effectively and like mk, GnW is relatively light but with the addition of an ohko he may possibly be a better team mate then mk. Also if the gnw dies first it's easier to make a comeback due to gnw superior ko power over mk and the potential to kill at zero with the bucket.

Now to cover wario pros and cons:
Very similar to gnw except no buckets or an effective way to avoid damage (ie planking etc etc)
But in return you get superior air mobility (which helps avoid damage and also helps to tack on damage so lucario can save easy kill moves such as d-air and f-smash). Also wario natural high stamina makes him a good tank and he also got hard hitting moves such as u-air, f-smash and his oh so powerful fart which in general makes lucario job abit easier then say if the lucario teamed with a mk or gnw. But downfall is that this team setup is more prone to have the non-lucario main die first.
(Sorry about the ugly format still on my iPhone)

These 3 characters IMO are Lucario best partners.

 

[phi1ny3]

Wai I thought Omnigay only happened when MK uthrowed a snake with a grenade.

 

[RT]

Well, if you're playing against a team with a Snake and you randomly pick up a nade...of course, if you're silly enough to hold on to a grenade long enough to get grabbed by an MK then...you deserve it, lol.

 

[culexus・wau]

I believe he's talking about the MK/Kirby uthrow -> C4 OHKO tactic in doubles.

 

[DallasPhat]

Updated my previous post with more detail recommend everyone to read post3433 if you enjoy long reads . But nah in all seriousness if you're looking for an opinion from someone who frequently teams with possibly the best lucario I recommend y'all to read post 3433.

Also sorry about any grammatical/spelling error difficult to write long messages on my iPhone. But yeah got bored at work so thought I could help the lucario boards.

Anyways IMO lucario is a relatively poor character choice in doubles when not doing the Anubis strategy mainly due to the fact of his fluxuation in attacks and though having relatively good stamina is a poor choice to tank due to his aura mechanism. He also have relatively low killing power when at low percent and is suspectable to early gimps due to his predictable recovery. Regardless when doing the Anubis strategy lucario loses a lot of his disadvantages while further emphasizing his advantages. Though still highly prone to gimps the lost of the stock can be ignored due to what he gains. Overall I believe the Anubis strategy is lucario best option in teams.

Possible Counterpick:
Any map with large blast zones and are flat (Example Final Destination is possibly your best counter pick)
Maps to Avoid:
Brinstar, Frigate, Rainbow Cruise etc etc any map that are relatively small and limits lucario recovery option. If playing against a team with a snake I would recommend banning Frigate. Against possibly double MK teams I would ban Rainbow Cruise and any team consisting of Wario you should ban Brinstar/Cruise (all up to you).

(Sorry about my lengthy posts, just trying to cover everything I can think of.)

 

[Fogo]

Very well put Andy.

 

[DallasPhat]

Why thank you Eric, I hope Lucario mains read what I've posted, I thought I was pretty informative and gave out the Pros/Cons of each possible teammate that Lucarios would team with for the strategy to be effective. I'll start posting videos of me and Lee soon to give yall an example on how the Anubis strategy should work. In the end, the tank should always have 3 stocks and the Lucario at 1.

Good example on how the anubis strategy should look like.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1Wqy2_yaH8&feature=related
Shows you alot of the Pros I was talking about (IE Early kills f-smash killed at 60 etc etc).