Should Metaknight Be Banned? The Poll (LISTEN TO THE SBR PODCAST!)

[Afropony]

Anybody else ever wonder why people come into an actual discussion, and then tell them they're crying?

If you have an answer, I'd like to hear it.

They want sympathy.

 

[morbidlyobssesed]

You don't know aaaaanything.

Great rebuttal! Lets give this man a hand!

*claps*

 

[Snowbird]

Statistics may speak louder than words, but you fail at statistics. For starters, I cannot answer the poll because neither of the two options represent my viewpoint. Even if you had enough options, your poll would not be the "accurate estimate of how many people support/oppose the metaknight ban" that you claim. It would be a biased misrepresentative sample from the Smashboards users that noticed your poll, and extrapolating results to the general Brawl community (or even Smashboarders) would be wrong.

One of the most basic principles of statistics is that misleading data is much much worse than no data.

????????

"Your opinion:

a. Meta knight should be banned.
b. Meta knight should not be banned."

Maybe your just unintelligent..

 

[Fatmanonice]

Stop making alts just so you can flame and post in the polls.

Gawd, what a stupid affair this has turned into.

Wow... how did the creator of the thread NOT fortell that this would happen... We have people creating ALTs just to screw with the poll results and start a flame war... And so this issue is going to continue to go around in circles for months...

 

[joshgrrr]

Stop making alts just so you can flame and post in the polls.

Gawd, what a stupid affair this has turned into.

Have you looked at what board your on recently sir?

 

[HeroMystic]

Wow... how did the creator of the thread NOT fortell that this would happen... We have people creating ALTs just to screw with the poll results and start a flame war... And so this issue is going to continue to go around in circles for months...

The Sept/Oct posts in general all seems to be horrible posts in the first place.

2008 was not a good year to join...

 

[Mr. Brain]

Well, like my friend always says in CoD... He uses the perk juggernaut which gives extra health to the player. All the players yell at him and he just says deal with it its part of the game xD. So yeah im basically saying the same thing MK is cheap but hes fun

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Is there evidence that one side is profiting more from alt abuse than another? In any case, if the results could be automatically filtered to remove users who joined after the creation of this topic, it would probably be overall good (it does disenfranchise extremely new users and users who joined just to vote in this poll [for whatever odd reason], but it's probably worth it).

I still agree with infsz's main concern here. Not all brawl players use smashboards frequently (even pretty high level players), not all smashboards users check this particular subforum, not all users of this subforum will read this topic, and not everyone who reads this topic will take the poll seriously enough to vote in it even if they feel strongly about it. It's hard to see how any result will be meaningful. It's not that a popular vote on an issue is a good way to decide it either even if the concerns could be removed so the utility of this poll is really limited regardless.

Also, I suppose I should make a token statement relative to my vote. I voted no with confidence.

 

[GofG]

I'll ask a mod about it, but I dunno.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I voted no.

But seeing as people have started making alts, my confidence in this poll has dropped.

 

[GofG]

I'm sure moderators have the ability to strip single votes from the poll. Someone (will probably end up being me, sigh...) compile a list of all of the people who joined after the poll was made who voted in the poll.

 

[urdailywater]

Doesn't need to be banned. Just fixed.

Handicapp'd too.

Maybe soft-banned (which he technically already is).

Have a nice day.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

I'm sure moderators have the ability to strip single votes from the poll. Someone (will probably end up being me, sigh...) compile a list of all of the people who joined after the poll was made who voted in the poll.

Nope, sorry. Maybe an SMod can do it, because regular mods can't.

 

[Tommy_G]

The point remains that no Snake player has taken down M2K or even run him down to last stock though, including DSF, the best in the world.

Maybe it's possible that no Snake is good enough, rather than the matchup. But isn't it telling that DSF takes MK dittos over CPing Snake?

I think MK has a slight, slight advantage on Snake at a high level. Enough that MK dittos are a better option.

Afro Thundah/ Leh has taken down M2k to last stock at FAST1 every time they played in a tournament match as Snake. Before M2K came to florida, all of the MKs were tornado spam and up-b spam so this was a new match up for him and he still got M2K down to the last stock.

MK hasn't won a tournament in Florida in over 3 months and only twice before that.

No Johns. Stop Complaining. (For everyone pro-ban for MK)

 

[Dougie Grumble]

Whilst I would vote yes, I think the London scene's still on Melee so I wouldn't be attending a tourney anytime soon. Because of this it would be unfair to vote yes when there's tourney-goers voting no, right?

I wonder how many players also in my position are voting anyway, though. I think for that reason alone this poll would be better in the SBR- I don't think this is a topic to be discussed with casuals that won't be affected either way from the ban, and would continue to use him regardless in their own circle of friends.

Still, I'm pro-ban in spirit at least At least a soft-ban to see if the metagme develops for the better, which I truly believe it would. Will be very interesting to follow this either way.

 

[Pluvia's other account]

Maybe soft-banned (which he technically already is).

Soft bans wont work.

 

[Prancing Mad]

I voted no because I came up with an idea. I don't know much about the whole meta game business, but I would like to offer a solution to the MK problem. Brawl allows you to self-impose handicaps. If there were instead a necessary handicap imposed, that would allow MK users to keep him, but think twice about using him. I know the handicaps are not overly specific, or fun to use, but at least it would stop the not so great pro MK users to think twice about using him. We would just all need to come up with a reasonable handicap level. Is this a ridiculous notion? Or would this be a reasonable solution? I'm going to post this on another ban thread as well, so You may read it twice

 

[Lore]

Still, Mk isn't really as amazing as everyone keeps making him out to be. Personally, I think everyone is overreacting. He's not good enough really to warrant a ban, imo. He's good, but not as amazing as everyone says.

So, obviously, I voted no.

 

[ThaRoy]

Still, Mk isn't really as amazing as everyone keeps making him out to be. Personally, I think everyone is overreacting. He's not good enough really to warrant a ban, imo. He's good, but not as amazing as everyone says.

So, obviously, I voted no.

Do they get phone service in the cave you're living in?

 

[Iwan]

Haha, Iwan, it's been a while. Hows that other guy who plays/played fox?

Resh0p? hahaha...he joined a fraternity and drinks everynight.

Hence I'm looking for a new teammate? LOL...I'm teaming with him for the C3 tourney on Nov 22nd....if he shows up sober maybe we'll place decently.

-_-

*is serious*

EDIT**----and to some of the people saying metaknight isn't as good as people claim he is: You have never played a good metaknight.

Fact.

 

[Shaya]

By the way, Metaknight has ONE, maybe TWO bad stages.

They're called Shadow Moses and Bridge of Eldin.

Two stages banned in competitive play.

 

[Espy Rose]

By the way, Metaknight has ONE, maybe TWO bad stages.

They're called Shadow Moses and Bridge of Eldin.

Two stages banned in competitive play.

Can't he dtilt lock against the walls on Shadow Moses?

Doesn't matter anyways, since MK doesn't HAVE a counterpick, be it character OR stage.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Doesn't need to be banned. Just fixed.

Handicapp'd too.

Maybe soft-banned (which he technically already is).

Have a nice day.

You cannot handicap a character. Otherwise, you might as well ban them.

he isn't soft banned nationally.


@shaya: green greens and Corneria are two stages that are often used.

 

[deepseadiva]

Doesn't matter anyways, since MK doesn't HAVE a counterpick, be it character OR stage.

They're called Green Greens and Yoshi's Island Melee - and Corneria for some characters.

 

[Praxis]

Why isn't Yoshi's Island a good counterpick against MK in your mind?

I didn't say it wasn't. I said I've never seen it legal.

You want me to go die because I think a stage that already adds more luck to the game due to its random elements and is also totally broken by DDD!? I mean, it's just a pile of infinites with bombs that appear randomly in certain areas....

Yes. You're dumb. Don't ever, ever insult Green Greens in my presence.

Green Greens has random elements? The bombs fall in set areas of the screen, and they only fall when the top blocks are missing, and at a set interval. If you're getting hit by bombs, you're either stupid and jumping in to the blast zone, or being launched by your opponents (your fault).

The blocks are very easy to use to your advantage. They explode instantly on impact- the hitbox does not linger. Which means you can stand by it, bait an attack, and spotdodge your opponent's attack and they get blown up (spotdodge avoids the bomb explosion). Your opponent will john and say the stage is stupid. You'll smirk at them.

Green Greens also short sides and a short ceiling, which eliminates recovery advantages. And since you can stay in the middle of the stage and bounce yourself off the block columns, you can live for a while if your opponent can't kill UP.

This makes it the perfect MK CP- you live longer than him, his recovery advantage is eliminated and his light weight makes him die fast, you can live for ages staying in the middle of the screen and kill him off the top when he can't... and the bomb blocks do 20% damage, which is way more critical to him than you since he'll die so fast. With proper DI you can survive the bomb block explosions at >100% without trouble- unless you're MK.

Dtilt infinites break the blocks, so the only infinite worth mentioning is Dedede. You want to ban the entire stage to prevent his infinite? Why not just ban the infinite? Given the choice between banning the infinite and banning the stage, I'd take the former. Plus, as long as you don't break the top blocks they don't respawn, so you can just break the side blocks and he can't infinite you through them till he destroys the rest of the blocks and waits for it to respawn.


The stage is easily the most tactical stages in the game. The people that get owned by the stage simply don't understand it.

OBSERVE, MY GREEN GREENS TRIBUTE/COMBO VIDEO:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZBI_a9LddQ

 

[LeeHarris]

Yes. If you vote otherwise, you will be destroyed

 

[ShadowLink84]

*is part of the minority*

*is shot*

 

[hotgarbage]

I was curious xP.


Pro-ban alts:
Buffles
coolstorybro
Icntspll

Anti-ban alts:
morbidlyobssesed
poisonedkris




Also there were a CRAP-TON of late 08ers and people with post counts in the teens (quite a few with 0) that voted on this poll. I marked each person who was obviously new here (no posts/very low post/very recent join date) that voted and came out with 85 people. 40 on the pro-ban side and 45 on the anti-ban side, so it was about even surprisingly. Note that this is just obviously new people; there were many more who were borderline that really shouldn't have been voting on this.

 

[Metro Knight]

I bet people who don't even play, or play with items voted no.

 

[ShadowLink84]

I bet people who don't even play, or play with items voted no.

ITT: We slap people with smelly fish to look intelligent.

 

[da K.I.D.]

lol praxis loves him some greens....

but i have a question

GG has 5 layers of 3 blocks on either side right?

if Mk is trying to spam down tilt on you, wont he only destroy the 2nd layer of blocks, thus allowing him to lock you, while the 3rd and 4th layers of blocks function as a wall?

 

[Overswarm]

I didn't say it wasn't. I said I've never seen it legal.



Yes. You're dumb. Don't ever, ever insult Green Greens in my presence.

Green Greens has random elements? The bombs fall in set areas of the screen, and they only fall when the top blocks are missing, and at a set interval. If you're getting hit by bombs, you're either stupid and jumping in to the blast zone, or being launched by your opponents (your fault).

The blocks are very easy to use to your advantage. They explode instantly on impact- the hitbox does not linger. Which means you can stand by it, bait an attack, and spotdodge your opponent's attack and they get blown up (spotdodge avoids the bomb explosion). Your opponent will john and say the stage is stupid. You'll smirk at them.

Green Greens also short sides and a short ceiling, which eliminates recovery advantages. And since you can stay in the middle of the stage and bounce yourself off the block columns, you can live for a while if your opponent can't kill UP.

This makes it the perfect MK CP- you live longer than him, his recovery advantage is eliminated and his light weight makes him die fast, you can live for ages staying in the middle of the screen and kill him off the top when he can't... and the bomb blocks do 20% damage, which is way more critical to him than you since he'll die so fast. With proper DI you can survive the bomb block explosions at >100% without trouble- unless you're MK.

Dtilt infinites break the blocks, so the only infinite worth mentioning is Dedede. You want to ban the entire stage to prevent his infinite? Why not just ban the infinite? Given the choice between banning the infinite and banning the stage, I'd take the former. Plus, as long as you don't break the top blocks they don't respawn, so you can just break the side blocks and he can't infinite you through them till he destroys the rest of the blocks and waits for it to respawn.


The stage is easily the most tactical stages in the game. The people that get owned by the stage simply don't understand it.

OBSERVE, MY GREEN GREENS TRIBUTE/COMBO VIDEO:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZBI_a9LddQ

Green Greens is actually one of my Metaknight counterpicks. He does very well there since he is able to kill at such low %. If the opponent doesn't have a projectile, just camp the edge on the side and you have more options to edgeguard and kill at 20% or so.

 

[Praxis]

Green Greens is actually one of my Metaknight counterpicks. He does very well there since he is able to kill at such low %. If the opponent doesn't have a projectile, just camp the edge on the side and you have more options to edgeguard and kill at 20% or so.

Hmm. Maybe I'm just better at it than my MK opponents then.

I'm aware of MK's low-kill-% tricks there, and actively avoid letting myself get in that situation, while camping in the middle and abusing low floats and Peach's ridiculous usmash. Camping in the middle keeps me from dying to MK and the usmash kills him at like 65%...if I get a lucky sweetspot.

(Worth noting that my character has a projectile though)

GG has 5 layers of 3 blocks on either side right?

if Mk is trying to spam down tilt on you, wont he only destroy the 2nd layer of blocks, thus allowing him to lock you, while the 3rd and 4th layers of blocks function as a wall?

No. If your head bumps the bottom of a block and you're not in hitstun, the blocks break.

If Dedede chaingrabs you into the wall, and you broke the bottom blocks, he'll push you through the other blocks and they'll break. Same thing goes for MK, it'll push you up and break the blocks over your head.

Plus, his dtilt moves him forward, breaking the other blocks, unless you're suggesting using the edge to stop him from moving forward- but I think his dtilt's range would break ALL the blocks.

 

[Overswarm]

You can time his d-tilt to not break the blocks XD

but yeah, I don't take anyone with a projectile there.

 

[Justblaze647]

Finally a Poll! It sure is easier than arguing with idiots...

 

[Praxis]

You can time his d-tilt to not break the blocks XD

but yeah, I don't take anyone with a projectile there.

Seems like Toon Link would be a potential problem. Excellent upwards killing power, a ton of projectiles, the ability to camp the center indefinitely...
Hmm. I'd suggest this to Chip, but then I'd NEVER beat him.

 

[da K.I.D.]

i love how every time someone says "this stage is bad versus MK!!"
OS comes in like "actually i bring ppl there against my MK all the time, cus i can kill you at 20%"
its happened like 3 times now, lulz

 

[Overswarm]

i love how every time someone says "this stage is bad versus MK!!"
OS comes in like "actually i bring ppl there against my MK all the time, cus i can kill you at 20%"
its happened like 3 times now, lulz

That's cuz people round here all thought the same thing then took me there so I could figure out how good of a stage it was :D

Smash64 still tries to take me to Corneria with Ness.

 

[morbidlyobssesed]

Here's my answer. Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

 

[da K.I.D.]

for the record, did someone just try to say that the fact that MKs crouch doesnt do anything is a weakness? lulsauce

also, im getting annoyed with the fact that i have to say this like every 15 pages.
lack of matchup knowledge counters everybody. this includes how the matchup changes depending on the stage you are in. thats the only reason people still think MK is beatable. because they get a win solely based on the fact that the MK has no idea what to do against that particular character, or on that particular stage. once MKs get smarter and learn all the matchups and all the stages. there will be no way to beat him.

you cant beat MK, he has all the tools to win no matter what the situation. the only thing you can do is hope that you can beat teh player behind the controller by enough that the MK advantage is negated