Should Metaknight Be Banned? The Poll (LISTEN TO THE SBR PODCAST!)

[TheManaLord]

PikaPika is pretty good but yo when you apply ppl to brawl it doesn't even matter son check it brawl sux


sorry for spamming i forgot jesiah was a mod wow wtf.

brawl is okay but i think metaknight is so good! he's so **ing good


yes that's a two letter swear word

 

[Tenki]

tenki, you seriously suck if you say that that MK has to land a SH f-air
he can jump (into any airial)
shuttle loop
and tornado out of any of his SH airials...

you are supposed the be the research guy...

LAND FROM A SH F-AIR, not land the F-air on the opponent.

I did the testing.

Metaknight's F-air, even when started/buffered as soon as you jump, ends just as MK lands. There isn't a SH F-air > double jump, just SH F-air > land.

If you'd like to (not directed at you, since you apparently don't have a wii?), feel free to test and clarify it for me. I don't have access to a wii over weekdays, so have a field day.

I believe SH F-air and B-air, and maybe N-air aren't short enough to do something out of a SH.

edit:
Arrow spam is overpowered?

 

[Master Knight DH]

Arrow spam is overpowered?

Pit can hold a given arrow and fire any given arrow in an arc. And each arrow comes out fast and causes flinching, which is more than enough to wreck approaches.

ROB gets ***** by the arrows and telegraphs his projectiles.

Ness's PSI Thunder is slow and the EB boy himself has to stay positioned unable to put up a defense without abusing the seriously laggy Missile.

Dedede is big and gets ***** by the arrows.

Snake's long range stuff is slow.

The Star Fox characters' blasters fire straight.

(There should be more, I can't think of them quite yet. I should have covered my point that Pit's projectile game is OTT.)

You tell me.

 

[M15t3R E]

?? Last time I checked in Melee Pika!Pika! went even with Anther in Pika dittos, if not only losing barely or something like that...He's a credible player, trust me. He beat Chu in Pika dittos in tournament, with videos up on youtube if you'd like me to link you to them, he beat Azen's Fox in tournament using Pikachu also...Just because you haven't heard of someone doesn't mean they're good.

Also, OS can think whatever he wants...Snake wins the matchup. I've been through it a million and one times vs a GOOD player even if for some reason you don't think so...I've been camped for 8 minutes straight on Norfair, he CG's me to the edge and edgeguards me to death with Thunders, when I'm on the ledge I almost never come back, he punishes every airdodge and hits me with stupid attacks when I land. He does everything that Pika can do in that matchup, and he still doesn't win.

And I watched DSF vs Anther, and if those videos are anywhere near a good representation of Anther's skill...which they may or may not be idk...But if he was playing well in those videos, I'm 100% confident Pika!Pika! is better vs Snake than Anther is. I watched those videos tons of times and at least 5 times per match I said to myself: "Wow, if that was PikaPika DSF would have been dead."

I'm not going to C3, I'm broke and am having family problems at home. We'll play sometime though...Also one last thing.

Despite what I have said about Pika!Pika!, I in no way shape or form claim to be his friend. Ever.

Wait, wait... what?
I wasn't talking about Melee. I was talking about Brawl. I don't give a flying F how good Pika!Pika! is in Melee. Melee is completely irrelevant to the discussion.
Now, IN BRAWL, not in Melee, Pika!Pika! is obviously NOT doing everything that a Pikachu can do. He must be walking into your tilts or carelessly allowing himself to go boom too often against your Snake. And despite your subjective bias towards Pika!Pika!, Anther always beats Snakes. Nuff' said.

Oh, and too bad that I won't see you there at the C3 event. I need to play you sometime...

Calling me an idiot like you don't walk into Snake's Forward Smash. Wow. You're very mature and not a hypocrite. I should follow your example. I certainly could learn a thing or two from you.

I said your statement was idiotic. Smart people can make idiotic statements and change their mind later.
It's actually pretty normal.

 

[JesiahTEG]

Anther lost to DSF, who is obviously a better player than Anther, but the things he was doing were a bit...off.

Also, DSF WASN'T EVEN PLAYING THE MATCH RIGHT AND HE STILL WON! That **** wouldn't have flew vs Neil lmao.

Anyways, no point in arguing. Hopefully we'll play soon, peace homie.

 

[M15t3R E]

Ehh, no point comparing the current Pika!Pika! to the past Anther.
Anther hasn't been in the tournament scene for quite a while because he's been bogged down in school and other issues. (I talk to him on a chat with other Pikas).

All this is subjective and we can never prove our points to be true. This is why debating is stupid sometimes.

Yes, hopefully we can play soon. Even if it's on F***in Wifi =/
Night night.

 

[AndrewCarlson]

Pit's arrows are pretty easy to shield. Not really overpowered so much as annoying.

 

[JesiahTEG]

All this is subjective and we can never prove our points to be true. This is why debating is stupid sometimes.

LMAO well at least you feel how I feel. I was about to say the same thing but I was like meh w/e

Also I guess I'll be an arrogant punk and say what I'm thinking.

I'm confident I will beat any Pikachu player. Any.

 

[Master Knight DH]

I said your statement was idiotic. Smart people can make idiotic statements and change their mind later.
It's actually pretty normal.

Yeah, well, I'm not exactly fond of being called an idiot lately. You try taking it lightly when the spam of an over-the-top projectile used by an amateur tears apart your character with whom you used to defeat two of the tougher bosses on turbo mode at the highest difficulty (who have given other players who have used stronger anti-boss characters), face to face, without taking a whiff of damage. And especially when everybody else claims they can thwart this same projectile spam more easily than other spams or whatever.

Pit's arrows are pretty easy to shield. Not really overpowered so much as annoying.

They still **** ROB, you know. And you can't shield forever, the shield will break.

 

[Praxis]

Please do not talk like a teenager.

I'll do so when you put up an argument that doesn't sound like it was written by one.

I'll post what I want about arrow spam. It's just plain cheap.

Again, I've beaten Sagemoon, and he's the Pit with the best arrow handling of any one of them in the world. Arrow spam is beatable. It's not cheap.

I took out a Pit on JUNGLE JAPES at a tournament this last Saturday, he picked the stage just so he could run away spamming arrows. Unlike MK, the arrows aren't going to adapt. Once you figure out how to approach through them, you're fine. Learn it.

Meta Knight has always been considered broken. These developments won't have changed things.

Fine, then just watch the videos. Does Eggz really look like he's playing like what we could consider, by current standards, a good MK, in that video? It's nothing like what we're seeing from Plank/Dojo. MK wasn't dominating at the time this video was filmed, and Snake was considered better by many.

And as noted, Sagemoon can't beat Eggz anymore. The MK got better and adapted, and the Pit couldn't keep up.

Does that changed how overpowered arrow spam is?

Yes. Because arrow spam can be dealt with easily once you figure it out. Eggz figured it out. Thus Eggz wins handily.

Does Sagemoon consistently arrow spam? Didn't seem like it

I've fought him many times, at least 15 matches at this point. We've tried all sorts of different tactics on each other, and we've done at least three MM's.

Arrow spam as a tactic in itself does NOT work. We've done this on Jungle Japes.

Pit should be soft-banned. Meta Knight at least requires his moves not being read and thwarted.

I'm going to state this outright; if you really mean this, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Plain and simple. This is worse reasoning than Inui's "Olimar counters Peach!" argument.

Arrow spam doesn't need research. I don't care if Pit is an archer, because Ness was the original SSB's projectile user and HIS projectiles could be worked around far more effectively. So arrow spam is overpowered. The end.

"Arrow spam is overpowered, in spite of evidence, because I SAID SO!"

What did I say about arguing like a teenager?
Go to your room and think about what I said, young man.

Insult. And double posting while we're at it. Good day.

Colorful debates are that much more fun.
Just like your mom.

Pit can hold a given arrow and fire any given arrow in an arc. And each arrow comes out fast and causes flinching, which is more than enough to wreck approaches.

ROB gets ***** by the arrows and telegraphs his projectiles.

Ness's PSI Thunder is slow and the EB boy himself has to stay positioned unable to put up a defense without abusing the seriously laggy Missile.

Dedede is big and gets ***** by the arrows.

Snake's long range stuff is slow.

The Star Fox characters' blasters fire straight.

(There should be more, I can't think of them quite yet. I should have covered my point that Pit's projectile game is OTT.)

You tell me.

That L button helps, you know.

 

[M15t3R E]

Yeah, well, I'm not exactly fond of being called an idiot lately. You try taking it lightly when the spam of an over-the-top projectile used by an amateur tears apart your character with whom you used to defeat two of the tougher bosses on turbo mode at the highest difficulty, face to face, without taking a whiff of damage. And especially when everybody else claims they can thwart this same projectile spam more easily than other spams or whatever.

I apologize. I could have chosen a better adjective than "idiotic".
Okay, my point is this. IMO, arrow spam is more annoying than it is useful.
Pits are usually... let's say... neutral to me. I think they have a slight edge over Pikachus but they don't make me sweat or anything.

 

[AndrewCarlson]

Agreed. Pit can't run away shooting arrows all day. It just doesn't work and will most likely cost them the match.

 

[Iwan]

edit:
Arrow spam is overpowered?

Ummm, GUYS....he beat two of the tougher bosses on turbo mode.....he KNOWS what he's talking about.

 

[M15t3R E]

Ummm, GUYS....he beat two of the tougher bosses on turbo mode.....he KNOWS what he's talking about.

Lol, I hope you're kidding.
Get into even medium range from a Pit and if they're smart, they'll stop spamming arrows. Pit's really not that bad. As I said, arrow spam is more annoying than useful.

 

[Master Knight DH]

I'll do so when you put up an argument that doesn't sound like it was written by one.

You're hypocritical, you know that?

Again, I've beaten Sagemoon, and he's the Pit with the best arrow handling of any one of them in the world. Arrow spam is beatable. It's not cheap.

If arrow spam is beatable, so is Grit without a broken CO.

I took out a Pit on JUNGLE JAPES at a tournament this last Saturday, he picked the stage just so he could run away spamming arrows. Unlike MK, the arrows aren't going to adapt. Once you figure out how to approach through them, you're fine. Learn it.

You forget about holding them for chargeup. That will screw up the sequence and you can react to them barely anymore than G&W's Oil attack.

Fine, then just watch the videos. Does Eggz really look like he's playing like what we could consider, by current standards, a good MK, in that video? It's nothing like what we're seeing from Plank/Dojo. MK wasn't dominating at the time this video was filmed, and Snake was considered better by many.

That's another thing: how is Snake getting anywhere? He telegraphs his smashes, he telegraphs his B moves, and his tilts are still short-range. He should be being smacked around, not being considered top tier consistently, let alone an easy mode character.

And as noted, Sagemoon can't beat Eggz anymore. The MK got better and adapted, and the Pit couldn't keep up.

Why? Because of the player?

Yes. Because arrow spam can be dealt with easily once you figure it out. Eggz figured it out. Thus Eggz wins handily.

Chargeup. Use it.

I've fought him many times, at least 15 matches at this point. We've tried all sorts of different tactics on each other, and we've done at least three MM's.

Uh.....what?

Arrow spam as a tactic in itself does NOT work. We've done this on Jungle Japes.

It works when you can screw up approaches.

I'm going to state this outright; if you really mean this, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Plain and simple. This is worse reasoning than Inui's "Olimar counters Peach!" argument.

I know what I am talking about.

"Arrow spam is overpowered, in spite of evidence, because I SAID SO!"

Whee. So I need to get better against humans who use the easy way out. I guess I suck just because they can kick my butt when they can't push around turbo Duon on Intense without using the cheap trick of going to the side to bait the missiles.

What did I say about arguing like a teenager?
Go to your room and think about what I said, young man.

How about you do that.

Colorful debates are that much more fun.
Just like your mom.

You know. You deserve the way I talk to you for the insults you pull out of your butt.

That L button helps, you know.

I already use it, you-

(Technical difficulties.)

Just never post stupid stuff again claiming that Pit's arrows are more defeatable than a lot of people's.

I apologize. I could have chosen a better adjective than "idiotic".
Okay, my point is this. IMO, arrow spam is more annoying than it is useful.
Pits are usually... let's say... neutral to me. I think they have a slight edge over Pikachus but they don't make me sweat or anything.

Well, it's certainly more practical than a lot of other annoying stuff. And I've had to deal with Ivysaur. I'd still rather deal with Ivysaur whose projectiles are slow enough that I can shield or dodge them, than Pit who deals 20% before I can get to him, and is still too likely to hit me with a decent blow knocking me back into a safe distance before I deal profitable damage.

Agreed. Pit can't run away shooting arrows all day. It just doesn't work and will most likely cost them the match.

He's not going to spam arrows all day, he's going to punish anybody who approaches. There is no figuring out the arrow spam that will work against this.

 

[AndrewCarlson]

I certainly think that a campy Pit will give most players a hard time. Many top players attest to Pit being High Tier for this reason alone. But I don't see arrow spam being broken in any way, at least enough to push Pit to Top Tier.

 

[Master Knight DH]

I certainly think that a campy Pit will give most players a hard time. Many top players attest to Pit being High Tier for this reason alone. But I don't see arrow spam being broken in any way, at least enough to push Pit to Top Tier.

Yeah, well, he still has something on most of the top tier characters whose name is not G&W, who......actually, who here thinks G&W may deserve a soft-ban?

*sigh* Well, at least Ness is my 2nd, and ranks within Low, thought mostly because of grab idiocy involving a certain Fire Emblem swordsman, but the point is that it wouldn't be that bad to have him as my likely first pick just for the PSI Magnet. Still, I should be able to work with my other character options without having to fear Pit arrow abuse, which at the very least destroys my heavyweight option.

 

[M15t3R E]

I think it's silly to think that just one move can make any character broken. Let alone a move that can be defeated by moving into medium range of the opponent. In this case, Pit's arrows.

 

[dainbramage]

*sigh* Well, at least Ness is my 2nd, and ranks within Low, thought mostly because of grab idiocy involving a certain Fire Emblem swordsman, but the point is that it wouldn't be that bad to have him as my likely first pick just for the PSI Magnet. Still, I should be able to work with my other character options without having to fear Pit arrow abuse, which at the very least destroys my heavyweight option.

The fact that you don't know that ness can escape marth's grabs (and you second him, wtf?) kind've destroys your credibility.

 

[Master Knight DH]

I think it's silly to think that just one move can make any character broken. Let alone a move that can be defeated by moving into medium range of the opponent. In this case, Pit's arrows.

Except Pit can still fire an arrow at medium range quickly, just to mess up your approach. These are your options:
*Stay or fall back, which has obvious reprocussions (sp?)
*Try to attack, which causes you to flinch letting Pit react better
*Roll toward Pit, which Pit can use a dash attack or dash grab against when you get out of the roll, if not a simple jab combo followed up by a Forward Smash
*Jump toward Pit, and Pit will probably thwart any attempt at an attack with an air dodge, further messing up your approach.

Grit wasn't broken with just Artillery, you know.

 

[AndrewCarlson]

But what can Pit do once you corner him into close combat range? Against characters like Meta Knight or Marth who outrange his melee attacks, he's going to have a hard time retreating and firing arrows. Opponents can easily and quickly close the gap, thus forcing Pit to resort to his rather average ground game. I know for a fact that Meta Knight absolutely destroys Pit (like 70:30), even without a move to deal with his arrows (Mach Tornado aside).

 

[M15t3R E]

I don't find it difficult to air dodge or roll past his arrows. Then when I get close, my d-tilt and d-smash usually help me out big time. The ones who love to spam arrows act so defenseless that it's pathetic once you are in point blank range of them.

It's not difficult to get past the arrows. Often I'll jump around like crazy while approaching, at the same time firing off my projectile. Then once I'm in medium range I usually approach him further from the air and his arrows do NOT help him out in such a situation. After I'm close, Pit's close range combat is good but not overwhelming. Pit is far from broken.

 

[Dragonslayer9]

I changed my mind again.

I vote for banning Metaknight, a character with that much of an advantage is unfair, sure he is beatable, but the chances of you beating him is decreased greatly because of how good he is.

 

[Master Knight DH]

But what can Pit do once you corner him into close combat range? Against characters like Meta Knight or Marth who outrange his melee attacks, he's going to have a hard time retreating and firing arrows. Opponents can easily and quickly close the gap, thus forcing Pit to resort to his rather average ground game. I know for a fact that Meta Knight absolutely destroys Pit (like 70:30), even without a move to deal with his arrows (Mach Tornado aside).

Yeah, well, Pit doesn't win with arrows alone, they aren't kill moves. Grit's Artillery don't shut down factories that fast either, they just devastate everything at the main battle like how arrow abuse brings up the opponent's percentage without them being able to do a whole lot about it. Grit's Artillery still need protection, easily in the form of the cheapo Infantry that force money to be wasted on AAs that will just get blasted by the Artillery when they kill the Infantry that are still easily replaced.

And it's not like Pit's close range is garbage, even if G&W will still strike fear into him. Plus he can survive for a decent while on his weight and recovery alone. Plenty of time to force the opponent away and start messing up their movement.

 

[Brinzy]

Tasteless opinion:

I say no because Marth makes my Zelda and Ness a lot unhappier than MK does.

 

[Tenki]

You tell me.

That L button helps, you know.

Except Pit can still fire an arrow at medium range quickly, just to mess up your approach. These are your options:
*Stay or fall back, which has obvious reprocussions (sp?)
*Try to attack, which causes you to flinch letting Pit react better
*Roll toward Pit, which Pit can use a dash attack or dash grab against when you get out of the roll, if not a simple jab combo followed up by a Forward Smash
*Jump toward Pit, and Pit will probably thwart any attempt at an attack with an air dodge, further messing up your approach.

Grit wasn't broken with just Artillery, you know.

Most people who theorycraft, for some reason or another, don't take into account airdodging and rolling. I thought it was nice you went ahead and did so.







but...
People don't walk/run and shield anymore??

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Melee is completely irrelevant to the discussion.
.

We can compare similar games, especially if they are within the same series.

 

[Praxis]

You're hypocritical, you know that?

If arrow spam is beatable, so is Grit without a broken CO.

Let me tell you something- I doubt you can imagine the arrow spam I've seen. I fight Sagemoon, who is known for having the best arrow control of any Pit. If I airdodge an arrow, I'm kind to find another arrow flying at my face; while the first arrow loops around and comes back at me.

Trust me, I've seen arrow spam at its worst. It's annoying, it can help Pit, but it doesn't break him, it doesn't make him better than Metaknight, and it's not enough to let him win tournaments, even for the best Pit in the world.

That's another thing: how is Snake getting anywhere? He telegraphs his smashes, he telegraphs his B moves, and his tilts are still short-range. He should be being smacked around, not being considered top tier consistently, let alone an easy mode character.

Hear that whooshing sound? It's your credability flying out the window.

Snake doesn't even need his smashes. He's got an insane defensive game with those grenades, and some of the fastest, most powerful, and longest range tilts in the game.

Why? Because of the player?

Because, as the metagame matured, people learned to deal with the arrow spam.

Chargeup. Use it.

You seriously think you know how to play Pit better than the best Pit in the world?

It works when you can screw up approaches.

Certainly. Arrows are GREAT for screwing up approaches, especially when they result in a Pit fsmash out of your airdodge or something. But that's not a broken tactic, just a good and annoying one.

I know what I am talking about.

Whee. So I need to get better against humans who use the easy way out. I guess I suck just because they can kick my butt when they can't push around turbo Duon on Intense without using the cheap trick of going to the side to bait the missiles.

Yes, you do. You stated outright that you were having problems with noob, campy Pits with no skill. These Pits don't win tournaments- in fact, the noobs don't get ANYWHERE in tournaments, and very few Pits achieve even top ten, only the very best. Clearly, arrow spam is NOT that broken, and it seems to be a personal quirk that you have trouble dealing with it.

How about you do that.

Did you really just pull an "I know you are but what am I?"

You know. You deserve the way I talk to you for the insults you pull out of your butt.

It's all in fun man, don't take things on the internet seriously ^_^

I already use it, you-

(Technical difficulties.)

Just never post stupid stuff again claiming that Pit's arrows are more defeatable than a lot of people's.

Pit's arrows are more defeatable than a lot of people's.

Well, it's certainly more practical than a lot of other annoying stuff. And I've had to deal with Ivysaur. I'd still rather deal with Ivysaur whose projectiles are slow enough that I can shield or dodge them, than Pit who deals 20% before I can get to him, and is still too likely to hit me with a decent blow knocking me back into a safe distance before I deal profitable damage.

You really take 20% every time you approach Pit?

Seriously?

He's not going to spam arrows all day, he's going to punish anybody who approaches. There is no figuring out the arrow spam that will work against this.

Yep. I figured that out a long time ago.

Here's a secret- Pit's approaching game sucks. Don't let him force you to approach. Approach slowly, powershield the arrows, back him into a corner, feint an attack and punish him or hit him with something with range, etc.

Pit's approaching game is TERRIBLE. He spams arrows to force you to approach, then punishes you for it. Apparently, you fall for it every time.

 

[Justblaze647]

^LMAO! That's a helluva multi-quote Praxis^

 

[Ice Climbers P and N]

There's so much tournaments with Snake/Meta Knight winners now, I don't mind Snake, it's just how bad Meta Knight is. I also find he's overused, under Snake.

 

[TLMSheikant]

I lol'd at the poster that said that snake has little range in his tilts. 10 ftilts.

 

[Maester]

I agree with Praxis, his logic makes sense.

 

[da K.I.D.]

I changed my mind again.

I vote for banning Metaknight, a character with that much of an advantage is unfair, sure he is beatable, but the chances of you beating him is decreased greatly because of how good he is.

beautiful in its simplicity,

im tempted to sig this

 

[frdagaa]

Yeah, well, Pit doesn't win with arrows alone, they aren't kill moves. Grit's Artillery don't shut down factories that fast either, they just devastate everything at the main battle like how arrow abuse brings up the opponent's percentage without them being able to do a whole lot about it. Grit's Artillery still need protection, easily in the form of the cheapo Infantry that force money to be wasted on AAs that will just get blasted by the Artillery when they kill the Infantry that are still easily replaced.

And it's not like Pit's close range is garbage, even if G&W will still strike fear into him. Plus he can survive for a decent while on his weight and recovery alone. Plenty of time to force the opponent away and start messing up their movement.

Ok, listen. Advance Wars != Brawl. Mmmk? SSE != multiplayer Brawl. Mmmk? It's really that simple. Nobody cares about how you do against the bosses in SSE; they're completely different from playing an intelligent human being. The skill sets in the stuff you're comparing to Brawl/bragging about in 1p Brawl are completely different from the skill sets used in competitive multiplayer Brawl.

Pit's close range isn't garbage, but it is definitely sub-par. Pit's arrow spam is able to be dealt with. In total, he is not the best character, nor even close. Just because you can't deal with it doesn't mean other people can't; maybe you just have a different skill set than is needed to deal with arrow spam. Snake is absolutely an amazing character, and MK is clearly the best character in the game. These are all facts. You can disagree, but you'd be wrong. It's that simple.

 

[Master Knight DH]

I honestly don't care what you find funny at this point.

Let me tell you something- I doubt you can imagine the arrow spam I've seen. I fight Sagemoon, who is known for having the best arrow control of any Pit. If I airdodge an arrow, I'm kind to find another arrow flying at my face; while the first arrow loops around and comes back at me.

I can imagine it quite well. It's nothing to an arrow spammer who I wouldn't doubt had been stopped by a G&W or maybe just a Falco.

Trust me, I've seen arrow spam at its worst. It's annoying, it can help Pit, but it doesn't break him, it doesn't make him better than Metaknight, and it's not enough to let him win tournaments, even for the best Pit in the world.

Let me guess: G&Ws all over the place?

Hear that whooshing sound? It's your credability flying out the window.

Your credibility is what's dead. You have trouble with Snake, and somehow especially with Meta Knight. He flipping needs disjointed tilts to stand a chance. Otherwise, he's just a punching bag. Meta Knight should not have any problem with him whastoever.

Snake doesn't even need his smashes. He's got an insane defensive game with those grenades, and some of the fastest, most powerful, and longest range tilts in the game.

Hello? Dash attack? And the tilts don't mean anything when I'm still spaced well enough to strike at a moment's notice.

Because, as the metagame matured, people learned to deal with the arrow spam.

I love how they also claim it's far easier to beat than any other spam. Really, I do.

You seriously think you know how to play Pit better than the best Pit in the world?

I haven't seen him use the chargeup.

Certainly. Arrows are GREAT for screwing up approaches, especially when they result in a Pit fsmash out of your airdodge or something. But that's not a broken tactic, just a good and annoying one.

I'd rather be fighting Meta Knight and his melee warfare insanity than Pit and his push-you-around arrows. Yeah, that's another thing: if you can beat arrow spam, you sure as heck can beat Meta Knight in a game where the emphasis is supposed to be on melee combat. Therefore, Meta Knight will only deserve a ban if Pit's OTT arrows are already banned. If they're not banned, Meta Knight will not deserve a ban.

If you're going to claim that arrow spam is the easiest spam ever to thwart, then YOU man up against Meta Knight.

.....no comment.

Yes, you do. You stated outright that you were having problems with noob, campy Pits with no skill. These Pits don't win tournaments- in fact, the noobs don't get ANYWHERE in tournaments, and very few Pits achieve even top ten, only the very best. Clearly, arrow spam is NOT that broken, and it seems to be a personal quirk that you have trouble dealing with it.

You would abuse the PSI Magnets, Reflectors, whatnot, and then claim arrow spam can be beaten just by dodging it. Yeah sure. I'm sure by dodging one arrow you automatically dodge the whole barrage.

Did you really just pull an "I know you are but what am I?"

Does it even matter.

It's all in fun man, don't take things on the internet seriously ^_^

That's what they all say.

Pit's arrows are more defeatable than a lot of people's.

That's just garbage. Most of the spams can be easily thwarted with common sense. Pit's is not one of them.

You really take 20% every time you approach Pit?

The 5% per hit isn't the problem, it's the flinching. That's why I get shot at least 4-5 times.

Seriously?

Yeah, seriously.

Yep. I figured that out a long time ago.

Good for you.

Here's a secret- Pit's approaching game sucks. Don't let him force you to approach. Approach slowly, powershield the arrows, back him into a corner, feint an attack and punish him or hit him with something with range, etc.

Here's a secret. Pit only needs to approach you when your percentage is high enough that he can kill you with a single clean strike. Try that and he slams you with Angel Rings.

Pit's approaching game is TERRIBLE. He spams arrows to force you to approach, then punishes you for it. Apparently, you fall for it every time.

So you want me to just sit there, either getting shot again and again or he waits for my shield to break at which point *anybody* can slam me with a charged up Forward Smash. Yeah, my intelligence feels praised.

 

[rehab]

This is the second worst tangent that has ever been gone off onto in this discussion

 

[Master Knight DH]

Ok, listen. Advance Wars != Brawl. Mmmk?

Yeah? Well, +1 Range is meager compared to what Pit has.

SSE != multiplayer Brawl. Mmmk?

Says the people who use telegraphed cheap tricks to slaughter Duon.

It's really that simple.

So is how you evade a lot of other spams.

Nobody cares about how you do against the bosses in SSE; they're completely different from playing an intelligent human being.

Since when are games not designed with human intelligence in mind?

The skill sets in the stuff you're comparing to Brawl/bragging about in 1p Brawl are completely different from the skill sets used in competitive multiplayer Brawl.

They're not that much different. Don't waste your breath saying they are.

Pit's close range isn't garbage, but it is definitely sub-par. Pit's arrow spam is able to be dealt with.

It is not. Pit thwarts approaches, I have said it a million times. Well, not that many, but you know what I mean.

In total, he is not the best character, nor even close.

And neither was Grit. It didn't make him any less broken.

Just because you can't deal with it doesn't mean other people can't; maybe you just have a different skill set than is needed to deal with arrow spam.

Whee. So I can't deal with Pikachu's easily air-dodged Thunder spam? That's just stupid.

Snake is absolutely an amazing character, and MK is clearly the best character in the game.

Stop claiming Snake is so amazing you can abuse him. And Meta Knight.......for the love of--if you can beat arrow spam, you have no right to bother with the term "broken." Let alone on the blue Kirby with a mask.

These are all facts.

Yeah right.

You can disagree, but you'd be wrong.

Only with conformism. And conformism hasn't exactly been buddy-buddy with me whatsoever or I would be far less worried about whether or not I would be married one day.

It's that simple.

So is handling a lot of spams.

 

[Zelc]

Guys, this might be a troll. Or if it isn't, I can't tell the difference .

 

[rehab]

Wait, Grit is broken?

The crap? Not even

 

[cutter]

Pit isn't as good as people think he is.

Then again I do main G&W and his magnetic-like bucket is amazing at stopping arrow shenanigans. Plus the turtle is Pit's bane

And lol at the guy who complains about the flinching from the arrows. You realize how much hitstun is in this game... right?