The Sauce Boss
Smash Ace
nah it is over lol.
After what just happened in the ally vs m2k match, people have every right to get carried away.
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Should Metaknight be Banned? ***Take 3***
- Thread starter SamuraiPanda
- Start date
- Status
After what just happened in the ally vs m2k match, people have every right to get carried away.
MysticKenji
Smash Master
candy got 9th
Mr. Escalator
G&W Guru
I can't wait for those videos to be uploaded (if they do end that way). ESPECIALLY the first.
Good **** I just came.
Good **** I just came.
GirugaMarc
Smash Apprentice
no tripping should be a tourney standard
MK thrives off of gay things like tripping
MK thrives off of gay things like tripping
Taiki
Smash Apprentice
I love how Ally beating M2K at APEX is enough to convince people that MK isn't banable and some even think the debates over /sarcasim. Just because M2K lost to a person who was undoubtedly amazing beforehand and just got more amazing doesen't mean MK isn't an imbalanced character.
Thats like an Akuma losing to a ken at a tourny does that mean that Akuma isn't broken, No it just means that the Ken did some pro *** ****. Don't let it go to your head's anti-ban.
On another note <3 Ally.
Thats like an Akuma losing to a ken at a tourny does that mean that Akuma isn't broken, No it just means that the Ken did some pro *** ****. Don't let it go to your head's anti-ban.
On another note <3 Ally.
Master Raven
Smash Master
Candy also beat Dojo in loser's for anyone wondering how he did.
bobson
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2008
- Messages
- 1,674
Incidentally...
M2K did stay in the air for most of the matches. If tripping had been enabled, the outcome might've changed.
GirugaMarc
Smash Apprentice
I brought this up in the livestream.
I can't even imagine how much tripping would have affected the outcome D:
Ax00x0
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Sep 22, 2008
- Messages
- 98
And this. It would help a lot if the entire anti-ban side wasn't convinved that the pro-bans think an Mk match up is "Unwinnable", when that's not the case AT ALL-the horrible imbalance, as you said, is. And the argument about how "only what the top palyers do matters" is also incorrect-maybe ahandful of people in the WORLD play on M2K, Ally, etc. level...that shouldn't be used to judge the other 99.95% of the community who are not, and in all likelyhood, never will be that good.
But, as I said, we'll wait tol Genesis. 3 (4?) MK's in the top 10 in Apex is still a sign of something. Once again though, great job Ally.
.AC.
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2008
- Messages
- 1,122
all arguments should be asuming that the players are at the current highest level of play,meaning that if a top mk player loses that convicingly to a top snake player,mk isnt "broken" enough to warrant a ban.
It is supposed to take a lot of evidence to prove a char ban-worthy while it should take very little evidence to prove a char is not ban-worthy.
People seriously forget that banning a character is bad.
But it just went to show that if you play well enough, you can overcome stuff like that. M2K was the best MK there was. Ally beat him. He's not broken.
Ax00x0
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Sep 22, 2008
- Messages
- 98
This is ironic, because the ANTI-ban side were the first to say "Stop using the equal skill of play theory-it's impossible to judge, and rarely will both be at their peak at the exact same time", to paraphrase. In fact, this has been an anti-ban montra since day 1. Funny how the sides switch...because I actually agree the "both at top play" theory is BS. To continue upon that, Dojo and M2k have played better, I thought. Just saying
Darxmarth23
Smash Champion
But the only person who would beat M2K is the best snake. No one else who is at the highest level of their mains game play was able to achieve such a feat.
After all, Mk is the guy who has his own tier above the guy who has his own tier.
True, but what other MK player is at the level of M2K?
This is BS. The best Akuma in the world is never going to lose to anyone because Akuma literally breaks the game.
Meta Knight is imbalanced, so? So is Snake. The best Meta Knight in the world losing demonstrates how MK isn't imbalanced to such a degree he needs to be banned.
Why should we ban MK because so many people are just so bad at the game they can't handle him?
No it wasn't. That's a lie. What the hell is montra, anyway?
Funny how the pro-ban side likes to lie and spread falsehoods so much.
Kinzer
Mammy
I wonder what M2K will have to say about that set... maybe he wasn't playing at his best...
Everybody has their bad and good days.
Just like how M2K lost to NL, even though NL said at the time of that one set/tourney ( I can't recall/remember/I don't know) he was ill.
Or would be a valid john for M2K to say he had little to no Diddy experience at the time and even with a handicap like that still lost anyway?
Everybody has their bad and good days.
Just like how M2K lost to NL, even though NL said at the time of that one set/tourney ( I can't recall/remember/I don't know) he was ill.
Or would be a valid john for M2K to say he had little to no Diddy experience at the time and even with a handicap like that still lost anyway?
rehab
Smash Journeyman
Nobody even plays Akuma. The last time a good Ryu (by Japan's standards) randomly played Akuma in tournament (which he had never done before), a 3-on-3 tournament, which he entered without anybody else to team with, it took the best Chun Li in the **** world, a contender for THE best, to stop his rampage, and Japan hardened the ban up a lot. No contest with this Akuma ****, guys.
Melomaniacal
Smash Champion
"Ally's too good."
-M2K
It does demonstrate that MK and Snake together are so imbalanced to a degree though, hahaha. *NEW THREAD COMING SOON*
Darxmarth23
Smash Champion
The only tournies that would make a significant difference are the big ones. And M2K goes to most, or all of those. His Mk hasn't been compared to the metagame. He IS the metagame.
He alone *****. But so does ally.
What other players besides M2K are at that level of Ally?
M2K has a contender.
This is what anti-ban is saying (though I don't agree): Ally, the best snake main, beat m2k the best mk main, meaning that both mk and snake were played at the top of the metagame and snake won meaning that snake beats mk meaning mk doesn't break the counter pick system.
None of that logic actually links together. Ally did beat M2K, but you don't know if either were playing at the top of the metagame or at an equal level of skill. That makes the assertion that snake beats mk baseless therefore making the argument stupid.
If you think snake or some other character beats mk use in a matchup use actual proof. And saying "apex" does not count as proof.
Did you guys ever consider that Ally is just too good.
edit: btw. mk breaking the counter pick system is not a reason to ban him, i'm just saying he probably does unless proven otherwise.
None of that logic actually links together. Ally did beat M2K, but you don't know if either were playing at the top of the metagame or at an equal level of skill. That makes the assertion that snake beats mk baseless therefore making the argument stupid.
If you think snake or some other character beats mk use in a matchup use actual proof. And saying "apex" does not count as proof.
Did you guys ever consider that Ally is just too good.
edit: btw. mk breaking the counter pick system is not a reason to ban him, i'm just saying he probably does unless proven otherwise.
Kinzer
Mammy
...
I lose matches to people all the time, at worst I'll just shake my hand at the T.V. at my poor display/use of skill and if I don't have to I won't say GG to my opponent/shake my hand and just leave, but if they offer me to/if I remember, I'll shake their hand and say "GG" just because that's what good sportsmanship is, but I'm not going to be happy about losing.
I would much rather baw at how bad I did/complain about how I lost even though I know I could've done better/I messed up on one thing and that changed the results.
Just because you see/hear something, doesn't mean it could be something else.
I lose matches to people all the time, at worst I'll just shake my hand at the T.V. at my poor display/use of skill and if I don't have to I won't say GG to my opponent/shake my hand and just leave, but if they offer me to/if I remember, I'll shake their hand and say "GG" just because that's what good sportsmanship is, but I'm not going to be happy about losing.
I would much rather baw at how bad I did/complain about how I lost even though I know I could've done better/I messed up on one thing and that changed the results.
Just because you see/hear something, doesn't mean it could be something else.
Melomaniacal
Smash Champion
So we should ban MK because MEW2KING is too good? That's what it looks like you're saying. Either that, or that we should preemptively ban MK because one day all MKs might be as good as M2K.
Darxmarth23
Smash Champion
It's the potential factor. Anyone might eventually be as good as M2K and Ally. But their mains are going to be either MK (60%+ chance) or Snake (40%- chance).
Mk is and always will have a tier above the dude who's got his own tier. And the best (People with the skill level or M2K or Ally) will always choose snake or Mk.
Snake is easier to beat than Mk.
Ban Mk, then see what happens.
Ban his ***.
I'm getting off now. If you all want to respond ofr discuss, Pm me.
itsthebigfoot
Smash Lord
M2K is going to play DEHF, Fiction and Futile at SCSA in 3 weeks, watch that
The Sauce Boss
Smash Ace
wtf nobody is saying this.
The logic is as follows:
Metaknight didn't win a huge tournament, therefore he is not broken. If he was broken, metaknight would have won.
JOE!
Smash Hero
Ally beat him this one time
if Ally's snake keeps beating M2K's MK, then we have a thing to base this off of.
At the moment i dont think 1 match (set?) should be enough..even with 2 of the best players
Now pro-ban are trying to use anti-ban's retaliation against them.
We're just saying "MK is NOT broken cuz Ally beat M2K, the best MK" as a counterexample of your "MK is taking all the top spots in the tourneys, let's wait for Apex and see what happens"...Now that you saw MKs didn't dominate, you should shut up now.
We're just saying "MK is NOT broken cuz Ally beat M2K, the best MK" as a counterexample of your "MK is taking all the top spots in the tourneys, let's wait for Apex and see what happens"...Now that you saw MKs didn't dominate, you should shut up now.
He didn't win a huge tournament does not translate to he is broken. What I said is slightly more reasonable at least. This takes into account player skill. Whatever. I'm not going to argue pro-ban when I'm anti-ban.
Player-1
Smash Legend
contradicting yourself here aren't you?
Ally is just another name of a person who has beat M2K.
NinjaLink (twice with Diddy), Lain (Apex 2-0 wth ICs), Ally (Apex 3-1 with Snake) have all taken sets of of M2K (there might be others, i dunno). And, M2K being the epitome of MK's metagame, it's only fair to say that those 3 different characters have done something to show that even the biggest pro (M2K) with the biggest character (MK) CAN lose... Meaning it's not a "winning option"... Just a character that's easy to learn, with good rewards.
All of the pro-ban people should remember that there actually isn't a long history of Meta Knight dominating; WHOBO has been literally the only Meta Knight totally dominates tournament. The point here is that there's absolutely no reason to believe that WHOBO was anything but an anomaly. Meta Knight didn't break the game before, and he doesn't now.
For a major tournament, Meta Knight's performance at APEX all in all was not particularly atypical. It's not just one tournament that Meta Knight isn't dominating at; it is just one (major tournament) that he did dominate at...
For a major tournament, Meta Knight's performance at APEX all in all was not particularly atypical. It's not just one tournament that Meta Knight isn't dominating at; it is just one (major tournament) that he did dominate at...
Master Raven
Smash Master
Ally is the first person to actually win a tourney over M2K though, or at least is the first in a long time.
Player-1
Smash Legend
Re-re-re-reflex!!!
ADHD
Smash Hero
Well, m2k was beaten by lain today, and I barely beat seibrik (even though I shouldn't have) and was 2-0 vs dojo in an MM but I don't know anymore...
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