Should Metaknight be Banned? ***Take 3***

[salaboB]

yes it does, it shows that bad matchups are much more noticable in lower levels as higher levels it is MUCH more player to player than character to character

DDD vs. Snake is not that horrible a disadvantage for Snake.

Also, it doesn't show jack about disadvantages. Since we know that for this tournament Ally > M2K, it's no surprise that Ally >>> Lain enough to overcome a somewhat disadvantaged matchup.

 

[.AC.]

wow people trying to justify m2k´s loss-

 

[salaboB]

wow people trying to justify m2k´s loss-

Wow people trying to claim m2k's loss means anything (More than just that M2K lost).

Spoiler

+1postcount--I can do pointless posting too

 

[FB Dj_Iskascribble]

DDD vs. Snake is not that horrible a disadvantage for Snake.

of course, 6-4 is just as bad for snake is meta is for most characters. Its nothing banworthy and can be overcame. Just adding to the not unbeatable argument
I like to beat dead horses, im also done with this thread

 

[Master Raven]

Actually Iska, I wouldn't really say it's 6-4 DDD's advantage. 55-45 his advantage at best. It's closer than what most people would think.

 

[CO18]

DDD barely beats snake

 

[Falconv1.0]

The way you guys are waaaaay over rating DDD vs Snake is going to make me puke, holy **** get educated instead of tossing numbers around. >____>

 

[demonictoonlink]

So, yeah... Congrats to Ally...
I know this doesn't destroy the pro-ban side, but hell; It gave us some good fodder^^

 

[Yuna]

Also I'm pretty sure other MKs lost to ICs, as well as other matchups. Wait for the brackets to be released. Snake wasn't the only one to beat top metaknights.

Wait, I thought you were pro-ban o_O.

We are talking about

high level players
mid to moderate players
and newcomers into the community.

The tornado and shuttle loop are the dumbest moves in the history of smash brothers. That, and it's nearly impossible to GIMP a Meta Knight. Meta Knight has so many options that if you are not constantly mixing your game up, you're a moron.

We're not talking about mid to moderate players or below. Because those players are bad at the game. Who cares if they can't handle Meta Knight when people at a high level have no problems handling MK, even if they lose to him (and many of them do not)?

Ally is the first person to actually win a tourney over M2K though, or at least is the first in a long time.

No he isn't.

yeah, so why are people freaking over this? M2K lost a close matchup, who knows, Ally could have just been on the ball perfectly.

also, people couldve have gone to apex with the mindset of: "BEAT MK!!!111eleven!!"

*shrug*



(neutral on the ban btw...)

Because the fact that people get close to and actually manage to beat M2K consistently shows that MK isn't unbeatable or even close to overpowered at all. There are several characters who stand a reasonable chance of winning against him.

 

[Mampam]

......

the rules are not based around anything BUT top level play because that is what really matters. Plus the main argument is overcentralization which is also disproved as 2 mk mains were top 10. Good players can get around the tornado. There really isnt a need to gimp a meta as he is very light, at least no where near as necessary as say, snake since he lives forever. Everyone knows meta has alot of options, that is one thing that makes him the best character, but the best is just that. Every game has a best with great options and such. Hes not broken and especially not banable.

preech this **** man, metaknight was NEVER invincible

ps: ALLY IS GOD

 

[Kamikaze*]

Lol @ people who are still meat riding the pro ban side

 

[Kamikaze*]

I have a question. Was money given at apex?

 

[demonictoonlink]

Yeah. 1000$ dollars

 

[L666]

It should also be noted that Snake ~= MK.

The matchup is known and accepted to be close. So both Dojo and M2K were beaten by... Snake.

Woo? Break out the champagne, we've got verification that Snake vs. MK is a close match!

Close? Watch those matches again and tell me it was close.

Also, yes, it is easier to play as MK than any other character--that's the reason he's the best character. However, he is not the best character by enough margins to warrant a ban.

 

[salaboB]

Close? Watch those matches again and tell me it was close.

Also, yes, it is easier to play as MK than any other character--that's the reason he's the best character. However, he is not the best character by enough margins to warrant a ban.

I didn't say the match itself was close, I said the...

You know what? I'm not explaining myself again to someone who misread me. This time I was even quite precise about what I said (I know, I'm not always)

 

[Kamikaze*]

Yeah. 1000$ dollars

Then to all the people that say M2K may have sandbagged, he wouldn't have done it if that much money was on the line.

Just shooting down that argument right now before it gets brought up again.

 

[stabbedbyanipple]

I have a question. Was money given at apex?

Yeah, why wouldn't it be? It's a tourney not to mention one on the national scale.

 

[L666]

I didn't say the match itself was close, I said the...

You know what? I'm not explaining myself again to someone who misread me. This time I was even quite precise about what I said (I know, I'm not always)

I knew what you meant.
I was the one who worded it poorly. What I was trying to say was that the matchup was even at worst, not close.

 

[demonictoonlink]

The entire throwing the match thing is disproven. M2K tried to nair Ally at 180% on his last stock. How is that throwing the game?

 

[P. O. F.]

Ok, but the point still stands guys.

People have voted on this numerous times and a majority of the community believes he should be banned. That's all there is to it. What else do we really need to disect here? What else is there to discuss? Woopty do one player beat M2K TODAY. Wow, M2K is a robot and probably never makes a mistake, has a bad day, has things on his mind, etc etc. If M2K loses than BAM! Meta Knight must not be broken then. Because Mewtwoking speaks for this ENTIRE COMMUNITY. We should all dub Mewtwoking Jesus, right? Mewtwoking is an amazing Smasher all around and is the best Marth in the world currently but some people need to stop meat riding.

 

[L666]

Ok, but the point still stands guys.

People have voted on this numerous times and a majority of the community believes he should be banned. That's all there is to it. What else do we really need to disect here? What else is there to discuss? Woopty do one player beat M2K TODAY. Wow, M2K is a robot and probably never makes a mistake, has a bad day, has things on his mind, etc etc. If M2K loses than BAM! Meta Knight must not be broken then. Because Mewtwoking speaks for this ENTIRE COMMUNITY. We should all dub Mewtwoking Jesus, right? Mewtwoking is an amazing Smasher all around and is the best Marth in the world currently but some people need to stop meat riding.

In most democratic institutions, 2/3 vote is necessary, not majority.

 

[deepseadiva]

Ok, but the point still stands guys.

People have voted on this numerous times and a majority of the community believes he should be banned.

Yes, consider who the majority of fans of a popular and mainstream Nintendo game are.

That's all there is to it. What else do we really need to disect here? What else is there to discuss?

I agree. MK is proven to be beatable. Anything else we're forgetting about POF?

>____>

<____<

Yep. I think that's abou- OH WAIT. What's that in the corner...

Never mind, just some dust and MK carcasses.

Woopty do one player beat M2K TODAY. Wow, M2K is a robot and probably never makes a mistake, has a bad day, has things on his mind, etc etc.

He did sound kinda groggy and pale. I hope he wasn't sick.

I bet they didn't even close the blinds to the place, and the sun was in his eyes too. STUPID SUN.

If M2K loses than BAM! Meta Knight must not be broken then. Because Mewtwoking speaks for this ENTIRE COMMUNITY. We should all dub Mewtwoking Jesus, right? Mewtwoking is an amazing Smasher all around and is the best Marth in the world currently but some people need to stop meat riding.

Wait... You don't belong to the Church of M2K?

YOU WANT TO BAN JESUS?

 

[Vista]

I assume you speak of the ICers.
Yeah, let's look at that.

M2k's 1st set against Lain.
He gets CG'd all over the place.
M2K goes to loser brackets via 2-0.

M2k meets Lain again in Loser's Finals.
M2k gets grabbed once the whole set.
M2k 3-0s Lain to the Finals.

yeah, anyone can beat MK when he sandbags and does **** that helps your side of the matchup.

It was 2-1, M2K took Lain to Rainbow Cruise 2nd game. I doubt he would have done that if he was sandbagging. Not to mention, I heard over the commentary that M2K was shaking or something?

 

[Mota]

Scrwe dis.

Link should be banned. He has a long sword=long range. And he has excellent projectiles=Untouchble due to camp.

 

[Kamikaze*]

Scrwe dis.

Link should be banned. He has a long sword=long range. And he has excellent projectiles=Untouchble due to camp.

Fail troll is fail. Be less obvious next time

 

[kr3wman]

Fail troll is fail. Be less obvious next time

If you can't understand the deep meaning behind his post, then you are the one who is failing.

 

[itsthebigfoot]

If M2K loses than BAM! Meta Knight must not be broken then.

If the best player of a character who is supposedly game breaking cannot beat another person then the character in question is not game breaking. game breaking means that they are as good as guaranteed to win. so yeah, m2k losing is proof of mk not being broken. the fact that non-mks were even competition shows that he isn't broken.

 

[Kitamerby]

it's only fair to say that those 3 different characters have done something to show that even the biggest pro (M2K) with the biggest character (MK) CAN lose... .

I'm sorry, but that's not true.

Meta Knight is actually one of the smallest characters in the game.


Also, M2K isn't the biggest pro. If anything, that title probably fits DaShizWiz more than M2K.

 

[Red Arremer]

LOL at all the anti-bans tossing each other off in glee at "winning" nothing was won-if ANYTHING, WHOBO and Apex simply negate each other. Not that basing everything only on tourney results only matter anyways.

WHOBO had:
- 5 or more of the TOP Meta Knight players, but only 3 or 4 Top NON-Meta Knights

APEX had:
- pretty much all Top Meta Knight and all Top NON-Meta Knight players

Which results are more accurate? The tournament lacking representation or the tournament having pretty much everyone together?

The community has polled this NUMEROUS times and EVERY TIME "Banning Meta Knight" is the majority. What further evidence do you need?

MAJORITY? By what, 10%? Is that a majority to you?

And this had more representation because...what? It was in a different part of the country? About the same number of people even went. And no, it was well disclosed before that WHOBO, Apex, and Genesis were to be major contendors-stop bending the facts to make it in your favor.

lol, what?

WHOBO had M2K, Dojo, Tyrant, DSF. The only Top Non-MKs I remember who played there were Inui, CO18 and Lee Martin. And there you have your Top 7. (sorry about the miscounting, I just got up <.<)

APEX had M2K, Dojo, Plank, but also Ally, Lain, Anther, Candy, Atomsk and whomelse.

"The tournament speaking for your favour doesn't count, it only evens out the skewed tournament results in our favour, RAWRAWR D:<"

3 (4?) MK's in the top 10 in Apex is still a sign of something. Once again though, great job Ally.

Out of which 2 only played Meta Knight alone. And those are Mew2King, and the other one is Dojo.

Of course the best character will place good. Do you have to see a tournament where no Meta Knight at all is in the Top 10 to be convinced he doesn't dominate? Are you a little bid dumb?

Hey guys,
watch the last stock of the last match.

Tell me that standing on a C4, waiting for it to blow isn't sandbaggage.

Ah, making up BS I see. How about M2K didn't remember there was one? Stuff happens, y'know.

yeah, so why are people freaking over this? M2K lost a close matchup, who knows, Ally could have just been on the ball perfectly.

also, people couldve have gone to apex with the mindset of: "BEAT MK!!!111eleven!!"

*shrug*

We're not "freaking" over M2K being beaten by 2 people already (Lain and Ally) in one tournament, but rather because we have a major tournament with representation of most Top Non-Meta Knights as well as Meta Knights, and Meta Knight didn't dominate.

M2K was sandbagging because the Iluminati did 9/11 and in 2012 california will fall off the side of the earth which is flat

Yes this. This is true. *nod*

hmn, what was the final 10?

1: Ally
2:M2K
3:
4:
...

So wait... Are you saying that Meta Knight is dominating because Mew2King got 2nd with him? And because someone used Meta Knight, the best character in the game and became second, he's ban-worthy? Or dominating?

 

[Kitamerby]

Ah, making up BS I see. How about M2K didn't remember there was one? Stuff happens, y'know.

There is a flaw in your argument.

First of all, that would require M2K to make a mistake.
M2K does not make mistakes, because he is secretly a robot.


However, we all know that there's more to this than meets the eye, because as common sense would put it, "If there was a robot specifically designed to play at Smash, it'd play alot like M2K but not as good."

This rules out the idea that M2K is simply a robot. My theory is that M2K is actually an RC robot controlled by Mario, brought to our world by the power of the 7 technicolor memory cards.

The proof is right here. M2-er, ahem... MARIO... was in the middle of a match, when he accidentally tripped the switch to close the eyelids. Since Mario is controlling M2K's robotic body via remote control, and thus not actually able to see M2K directly, he did not notice that the eyelids were closed and kept playing as usual.


I hope you see how utterly ridiculous, redundant, and outright ******** your argument is now.

 

[mafain]

imo, and I use that to the fullest extent, can you imagine the many different combinations of fights you'd see if MK WAS banned. If you look at the tournament based results tier list, MK has his own tier. IF you examine that you'd see that there are alot more MK entrants compared to lower tier characters. Whys that? because initially everyone used their own character, but upon noticing MKs domination over tournaments everyone is given the choice to either pick Snake or MK as to counterpick ever other MK. Due to MKs easier learning curve as opposed to Snake, its only right to say MK is top of the tournament tier because everyone uses him.

You cant ban CGing on the basis that all you have to do is "not get grabbed" but you cant "not get MK'd" in tournaments, hes EVERYWHERE. Hes FEELS statistically superior as opposed to other chars, imo. Multi jump, glide, speed, array of recoveries ONTOP of his multi jump. Ban MK and you'll see more variety.


The above is all my opinion.

I know someone's gonna comment on my lack of posts, but Ive been playing the SSB series and lurking these forums enough to not have to be represented by a post count.

 

[A New England Winter]

I don't want him banned. I want to get really good against MKs so I can pull off extremely sexy **** off like what Ally and Lain did.

It's not an impossible match up, just *****s are too lazy to learn it and perfect their ****. If one person can do it with training and dedication, anyone can.

 

[Red Arremer]

There is a flaw in your argument.

First of all, that would require M2K to make a mistake.
M2K does not make mistakes, because he is secretly a robot.


However, we all know that there's more to this than meets the eye, because as common sense would put it, "If there was a robot specifically designed to play at Smash, it'd play alot like M2K but not as good."

This rules out the idea that M2K is simply a robot. My theory is that M2K is actually an RC robot controlled by Mario, brought to our world by the power of the 7 technicolor memory cards.

The proof is right here. M2-er, ahem... MARIO... was in the middle of a match, when he accidentally tripped the switch to close the eyelids. Since Mario is controlling M2K's robotic body via remote control, and thus not actually able to see M2K directly, he did not notice that the eyelids were closed and kept playing as usual.


I hope you see how utterly ridiculous, redundant, and outright ******** your argument is now.

... I'm not sure if that is trying to make fun of me or make fun of people saying M2K was sandbagging Ally and/or Lain. But it's funny regardless.

 

[Vyse]

All the MK users are bolded.
If you ask me, this is what a healthy metagame should look like.
Or at least, it's a picture of what Melee's metagame back in 07 looked like.

Even if Mew2king had come first, I would still be very pleased to see results like this.

1: Ally(guess)
2: Mew2King(guess)
3: Lain(Ics, DDD)
4: Anti(Snake, MK)
5: Atomsk(DDD)
5: Ksizzle(Lucario, MK)
7: ADHD(Diddy Kong)
7: Anther(Pikachu)
9: Seibrik(MK, DDD)
9: Candy(Snake)
9: NinjaLink(Rob, Diddy, Pikachu)
9: Blackwaltz(Olimar)
13: Afro Thunder(SNAKE!!!)
13: Dojo(MK)
13: Ultimate Razer(Snake)
13: HolyNightmare(Rob)
17: Y.b.M(Kirby)
17: UTD Zac(G&W)
17: Slikvik(Wario, G&W, Peach)
17: Dazwa(Zss)
17: NEO(Marth)
17: Boss(Mario, Luigi)
17: Plankk(...guess)
17: Light(Shiek, Pit, MK)
25: Hylian(G&W)
25: Meep!(ICs, barf)
25: PhantomX(Wario)
25: kornnn(METAKNIGHT)
25: ESOJ(DiddyK)
25: Jash(TL)
25: Puffster(DiddyKong)
25: Xzax(MK)
33: PGN(G&W)
33: Crizthakidd(MK)
33: Cawesome(SNAKE)
33: Judge(MK, Wario)
33: Steel2nd(Marth)
33: HAT(SNAKE)
33: Chudat(Kirby)
33: Eazy(MK)
33: Vex Kasrani(G&W, DDD, Bowser)
33: Kadaj(Marth)
33: PikaPika!(guess)
33: Inui (Broken Finger Johns)
33: Fatal(Snake)
33: BadNewsBear(Lots of characters)
33: Yes!(Snake, Fox)
33: EEvisu(DayDayDay)
49: Rhyme(Spamus)
49: SK(92)
49: Xiivi(Luigi)
49: Omegablackmage(SlikVik)
49: Xisin(?)
49: KirinBlaze(Mario)
49: Omniswell(ICs, Wolf)
49: Dphat(Marth, MK)
49: TUSMMMMM(DaydayDayyyyyyyyyy)
49: Ophelia(Sonic, MK)
49: JJ wolf(guess)
49: D1(FLACO, Metacake)
49: Darc(Marth)
49: Keitaro(Falco)
49: Kai(Sonic, Diddy)
49: IcyLight(Olimar)
65: JAY-SMASH
65: Okin(Lucas)
65: Clai(MUTHA****IN GANON)
65: Smurf(Pit)
65: God-is-my-rock(slikvik)
65: BetaZealot(falco)
65: Dark. Pch(Pch)
65: Buuman(DDD)
65: Ninja Edd(Diddy)
65: DIZMY
65: Jilla
65: Kage
65: Blackanese(G&W, MK)
65: .com
65: Sky
65: Gunblade(snake)
65: Lobos(TL)
65: WTP
65: Izumi(MK)
65: EpicProportions
65: The Hulk(DK)
65: Vanz(DQ'd)
65: Yoshididdy(Diddy)
65: Doom(MK)
65: Pride(Yoshi HIGHEST PLACING YOSHI)
65: dj nintendo(Bowser)
65: Turbo Ether(Snake)
65: Will(DK)
65: Arrancar 18(Lucario)
65: GDX(diddy)
65: Malcom(sonic)
65: Pyronic~Star(Olimar)

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=7361676#post7361676

 

[Curaga]

All the MK users are bolded.
If you ask me, this is what a healthy metagame should look like.
Or at least, it's a picture of what Melee's metagame back in 07 looked like.

Even if Mew2king had come first, I would still be very pleased to see results like this.

Honestly, based on that list.

As you are, I am as well. Very happy, even if MK got first.

So all of people's Q.Q is not as valid anymore for ban, and the anti-ban people can stop being losers.

Hooray

 

[ADHD]

I find it a bit fishy that mew2king kept falling into snake's ftilts, nair and grabs when he OBVIOUSLY could have avoided them. But meh, congrats ally, too good.

 

[Red Arremer]

Out of which 2 only played Meta Knight alone. And those are Mew2King, and the other one is Dojo.

I stand corrected, Dojo didn't even make Top 10. So the only one who went only Meta Knight and placed Top 10 is Mew2King.

 

[brinboy789]

i doubt that M2K would lose on purpose, especially with that HUGE pot.

 

[Vyse]

I find it fishy that Mew2king also came second in Melee.
I think it is completely unfeasible that he is indeed human and can make mistakes.

No offense to anyone in particular (I <3 you Chrome), but I don't honestly think he would actually lose on purpose, especially considering the current climate of the debate. You would expect that this would happen if he staged a loss.

It's all too easy to sit back and pick apart what he did wrong and assume it was on purpose.
Saying that Mew2king threw the match is an insult to Mew2king and to Ally.

 

[Nic64]

the bad thing about M2K losing to Ally and MK's not dominating is that this thread has gotten even more ********, "other top players wanted to use meta knight they just didn't because he's SOFT BANNED"

lol america soft ban

on the plus side it was an amazing set