Should IC chaingrabs be allowed in tournaments?

[gallax]

but then again...you can just changrab across the stage, do a turn around grab(dont know the name) and do it again across the stage), and repeat. the IC's have the ability to 0-kill better than anyone. there is no way for us to counter these CG's. i think they are banning it to keep the user ability a part of the game.

what i dont like is banning wall infinites though. they are tough to set up and only useful on certain stages. these things lead me to question whether they are gonna ban cg'ing off a stage. like a DDD chaingrabbing an ike across the stage(like on caslte siege-second stage) into his death. are they gonna ban this?

 

[InterimOfZeal]

Wall infinites are WAAAAAAAAY easier than IC infinites, wtf.

 

[FooXero]

Rofl

QFT

Althoguh you can only control your own tourneys, not all of a city, like if I made an ICs only tourney and banned all stages but FD and banned all moves but grab in houston I'd get a small turn out but you couldn't really stop me.
But if you do convince an entire city and they choose to ban it themselves that's fair.

Well now if you did that there wouldn't be any problems now would there lol? ICers can't chain grab another set of ICers until Nana dies (with the exception of d-throw for a few %'s).

Guys, the tournaments in Houston are hella fun. There aren't that many ICers, and let me tell you it's hella hard to do any chain grabs with the exception of the d-throw fair combo. And I still have fun with my ICers. Just ask TGM (hehehe picto level). The tournaments down here are pretty fair and have been. Even since HOBO 1, metaknights, snakes, falcos and sonics (mainly the Winston bro's and Seth and Stiltz) have been the top of the Houston gang. Is this because ICers chain grab was banned? No it's because the metaknights, which are soooooo easily spammable with their dam b-attacks, are uber gay and just separate the poor ICers.

Personally I don't care whether they are banned or not. The ICers are still hella fun to play.

 

[Kyas]

I have seen 0 to deaths from the ICs in competitive matches. The thing is, the ICs are formidable without their CG's, as well. Besides, throwing an opponent into a fair spike is still a very painful combo that works for tech chasing, even without being a deadly CG. I know that these CGs take a considerable amount of skill, but difficulty alone is not merit for their continued existance at tournaments.

 

[theONEjanitor]

no, they take a lot of skill and timing, and are easy to mess up. you guys are full of ****, no one really 0-deaths people with IC's chaingrabs.

 

[swordgard]

Xyro77 im gonna post this, but this has absolutely nothing to do with your tournaments whatsover, so.I believe that since you host the tournament you should have the right to choose the rules. However i wanna bring up some points.

Many people believe the ice climbers infinite should be banned because its inescapable. What about in doubles??? Are we allowed to infinite, theorically we can be stopped until it becomes 2v1, so i believe there is no point in banning them over there. As for ice climbers infiniting in 1v1, i personally believe we should not restrict them until it prooves to be very bad for the metagame. It is pretty hard to land a grab with ice climbers, especially agaisnt everyone in the top tier section(snake=fortress defenses, meta=no lag=no possible grabs, marth....god the range, the ****ing range, G&W has his turtle which kills our shield, rob has that downsmash of his.) I personally believe that considering the hard task that is grabbing, ice climbers should be allowed to chaingrab in return. As for the rest of the cast, top tier characters have whole lots bigger advantages agaisnt them so it doesnt matter.

I believe there is a reason ice climbers are not top tier, they just cannot keep up with far more broken things(or characters). Let them have their infinites, or remove snakes tilt, remove meta completely(**** this guy is really overpowered), remove Bowsers infinite grab.

 

[Overswarm]

When SBR releases thier rules.....i will fully accept thier orders.

Well that's good to hear, because here they are:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=187735


If you have any questions, gripes, complaints, or quirks...

Go here:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=187736

 

[Tbagz]

are they cheap.. YES.. but as some one who has personally tried the ice climbers chain grab and glitch. they are pretty hard to do, and if you are an expereinced enough player, you can space yourself and still cause damage to the ice climbers before they have the chance to pull of the attacks on you.

 

[swordgard]

are they cheap.. YES.. but as some one who has personally tried the ice climbers chain grab and glitch. they are pretty hard to do, and if you are an expereinced enough player, you can space yourself and still cause damage to the ice climbers before they have the chance to pull of the attacks on you.

Well i guess that settles it, they arent officially banned, hence they should be unbanned!!!

VICTORY TO THE ICE CLIMBERS !!!

 

[Overswarm]

Regardless, even if he went against the grain....

Here's my most current evidence say "lol wut" to the ICs being super tippy top tier:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imU5RG9tHXQ


This guy chain threw his way to me, and then got knocked into the loser's bracket. I then did this to him, and he didn't play ICs against me for the rest of the tournament.

 

[swordgard]

Regardless, even if he went against the grain....

Here's my most current evidence say "lol wut" to the ICs being super tippy top tier:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imU5RG9tHXQ


This guy chain threw his way to me, and then got knocked into the loser's bracket. I then did this to him, and he didn't play ICs against me for the rest of the tournament.

Its obvious however that this guy wasnt the best ic there is, he could have done alot better on many occasions in that match(grab to fsmash wtf)

 

[InterimOfZeal]

I take it back. I played Dai-A, and he showed me how ****ed up it is. 5 cg limit, IC infinites are easy as hell to get. You don't even have to be synced that well to start it.

 

[NinjaFoxX]

"Any infinite chain grabs most end quickly after 300% has been reached so as to prevent excessive stalling."

i can go with that,even if 300% is a bit much,CGs are legal so thats good enough for me

 

[Ace55]

Regardless, even if he went against the grain....

Here's my most current evidence say "lol wut" to the ICs being super tippy top tier:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imU5RG9tHXQ


This guy chain threw his way to me, and then got knocked into the loser's bracket. I then did this to him, and he didn't play ICs against me for the rest of the tournament.

He could have simply thrown to Nana and then throw into charged Usmash you on his last stock (perhaps with your button mash action you could have escaped but I havn't seen anyone do that at 80%) to even it in stocks. Then he could have suffieced with one grab again, potentionally killing you. And he clearly seemed below your skill level. So what does this prove exactly?

I'm not at all for a ban on the Ice Climbers CG, but I do think they are quite powerful in a game where combo's hardly exist. Even you got caught more then 3 times in that match if I'm not mistaking.

 

[Hylian]

Will everyone please show me the tournament results that show ICs winning everything with infinites?

Anyone?

Oh right, they don't exist. The only place ICs really win is in Texas.

 

[Overswarm]

He could have simply thrown to Nana and then throw into charged Usmash you on his last stock (perhaps with your button mash action you could have escaped but I havn't seen anyone do that at 80%) to even it in stocks. Then he could have suffieced with one grab again, potentionally killing you. And he clearly seemed below your skill level. So what does this prove exactly?

I'm not at all for a ban on the Ice Climbers CG, but I do think they are quite powerful in a game where combo's hardly exist. Even you got caught more then 3 times in that match if I'm not mistaking.

Most fo the time I was caught, he couldn't chain grab or I had an instant breakout.

You are splitting hairs.

"ICE CLIMBERSE ARE TOOOOOOOOO GOOD AND WE SHOULD BAN THEIR CHAIN GRAB"

*vid of me playing well against an IC, the first time playing one in tournament*

".....HE COULD HAVE WON IF HE WAS ONLY BETTER"

For every time you say "he could have done this to kill me", I say "I could have done this to not get grabbed"

yay theory craft

 

[DMG]

I find it funny that the IC's have been winning most in Texas, the State that has the most (maybe only) restrictions on them.

 

[Overswarm]

I find it funny that the IC's have been winning most in Texas, the State that has the most (maybe only) restrictions on them.

I think the ICs doing well came first, which would explain that.

 

[Ace55]

Most fo the time I was caught, he couldn't chain grab or I had an instant breakout.

I'll take your word for it.

You are splitting hairs.

Well, I wasn't trying to.

"ICE CLIMBERSE ARE TOOOOOOOOO GOOD AND WE SHOULD BAN THEIR CHAIN GRAB"

I'm not Xyro, I did not say this.

*vid of me playing well against an IC, the first time playing one in tournament*

".....HE COULD HAVE WON IF HE WAS ONLY BETTER"

Well, that wasn't really my point. I was saying that if he had properly executed his CGs that he would have at least killed you on your second stock, even though you almost didn't get grabbed in the match. My point was that this vid doesn't seem to prove anything concerning the IC and how high they might end up, because they weren't used anywhere near full potential, and they still seemingly could have leveled it in stock. You seemed to present it as your evidence that the IC are not tippy top tier (I'm not saying they are, I just don't think the vid proved anything).

For every time you say "he could have done this to kill me", I say "I could have done this to not get grabbed"

Wasn't my point, he did grab you and he should (in my experience) have killed you once he got the grab. Everyone knows you can evade grabs.

yay theory craft

Uhmmm...

 

[Ninja_Star]

I personally think no. I dont think any chain grabs should be allowed in any tournaments. No matter who the character. Maybe a total of three grabs in a row and thats it. Its pretty cheap considering you cant get out of it. Brawl should be about statagy, not tech chasing and pressing Z over and over again. But then again, it does take skill to do it again, and get them in the original grab that started the chain grab. Wow, Im contradicting myself in my own post. Well... crap... now I got myself doubting my own opinion.... well... How about this... Infinates = no. Chain grabs = Yes. Muahahaha

 

[NinjaFoxX]

I personally think no. I dont think any chain grabs should be allowed in any tournaments. No matter who the character. Maybe a total of three grabs in a row and thats it. Its pretty cheap considering you cant get out of it. Brawl should be about statagy, not tech chasing and pressing Z over and over again. But then again, it does take skill to do it again, and get them in the original grab that started the chain grab. Wow, Im contradicting myself in my own post. Well... crap... now I got myself doubting my own opinion.... well... How about this... Infinates = no. Chain grabs = Yes. Muahahaha

evrything but the limiting the amount of grabs.

 

[HMD]

there already not allowed

 

[Stryk9]

Kal did a nice philosophical debunking earlier on of hylians post, lmao, though really, all it shows is smashboards general inability to form proper syllogisms.

 

[TKD]

IC's aren't a broken as MK. Why make them worse? Could you ban mach tornado too then? And grenades?

Just look at the matchups. Even with chaingrabs allowed (as it should be), the IC have 2-4 bad matchups, and a lot more even matchups than MK. Some characters have no chance against IC because of the chaingrabs? HELLOOooo!!! Those characters (and more) have no chance against MK either.

Just saying, you can't ban a technique that belongs to a character that isn't broken. Also, tournament pressure can make your chain fail (not KO).

Banning chaingrabs is ridiculous. It almost turns IC into Ganondorf (unless you ban Ganondorf edgehogging, or one of his aerials).

It's not all about chaingrabs, but being able to greatly punish some of your opponent's mistakes is the biggest part of IC being worth it.

 

[A6M Zero]

there already not allowed

Uhm, where in the world did you get this idea?

 

[NinjaFoxX]

Uhm, where in the world did you get this idea?

that guy in loltexas banned...well...limited them,although a few are convincing him to make them legal.

 

[gantrain05]

i don't give no **** about the IC, they are the most homosexual characters in smash anyway, even with their chaingrabs its not hard to avoid it, just beat the piss out of nana, which isn't hard considering the delay between her and popo is like 6 frames or something, kill her and chaingrabs are out of the question.

 

[Metà]

i don't give no **** about the IC, they are the most homosexual characters in smash anyway, even with their chaingrabs its not hard to avoid it, just beat the piss out of nana, which isn't hard considering the delay between her and popo is like 6 frames or something, kill her and chaingrabs are out of the question.

This guy gets it. Hurrah.

 

[Natch]

Regardless, even if he went against the grain....

Here's my most current evidence say "lol wut" to the ICs being super tippy top tier:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imU5RG9tHXQ


This guy chain threw his way to me, and then got knocked into the loser's bracket. I then did this to him, and he didn't play ICs against me for the rest of the tournament.

Wow, even I could've done better than him, and I don't even use ICs. Only really used them in Melee(though they WERE the first character I ever used, but still). When you ledge camped, I would've sat back on the nearest platform, and spam B.

BTW, nice spacing. I'm not that good on my spacing game, unfortunately.

 

[okiyama]

all it shows is smashboards general inability to form proper syllogisms.

Of course I can't make proper syllogisms, you need to get all that wheat then you have to like grind it up and stuff, then add all the ground wheat to the water. It's tricky stuff.

 

[Darkwashu]

Chain grabbing takes real skill,and isnt something you can see a video on youtube and master it.
Chain grabbing and desyching are all the Iceys can do,and I main the Iceys,so dont flame me.
I've mained the Iceys since Melee,and Its still a little shaky for me when it comes to chain grabbing.

However,one a person masters it,they become a deadly force....no,dont ban them,they're become worse characters.

Dont flame me

 

[J03]

my arguement is to ban the IC's as a character.

I dont like the idea but saying 'this throw is banned' or 'this throw isnt', is very confusing and in a competitive match its not what you need.

unfortunatly for the IC's any grab they make CAN be for a stock, EVERY single time. i agree that it takes much skill to 'master' the chainthrows and such, but then you have wobbling T_T. wobbling is banned in numberous places now. BUT people still do it, they'll grab, chain throw, wobble and then bhain throw before anyone cottons on.

For this sole reason the IC's should not be allowed. It is a fair point to say 'good players know how to not get grabbed' and this is 100% true. However it stops players from playing an entertaining match, every time an IC's player sheilds you have to either camp or land behind them. Banning them might not be fully appropriate but its definatly a simple solution.

 

[swordgard]

my arguement is to ban the IC's as a character.

I dont like the idea but saying 'this throw is banned' or 'this throw isnt', is very confusing and in a competitive match its not what you need.

unfortunatly for the IC's any grab they make CAN be for a stock, EVERY single time. i agree that it takes much skill to 'master' the chainthrows and such, but then you have wobbling T_T. wobbling is banned in numberous places now. BUT people still do it, they'll grab, chain throw, wobble and then bhain throw before anyone cottons on.

For this sole reason the IC's should not be allowed. It is a fair point to say 'good players know how to not get grabbed' and this is 100% true. However it stops players from playing an entertaining match, every time an IC's player sheilds you have to either camp or land behind them. Banning them might not be fully appropriate but its definatly a simple solution.

Wtf, meta is like twice as broken, and even with wobbling only ic you saw winning was Chu. This is not a valid argument, when we see ics winning tournaments like mad, consider banning em if they really are that good, but as of now i dont see any ic abusal.

 

[gantrain05]

Wtf, meta is like twice as broken, and even with wobbling only ic you saw winning was Chu. This is not a valid argument, when we see ics winning tournaments like mad, consider banning em if they really are that good, but as of now i dont see any ic abusal.

lmao this guy is spot on, i actually think meta should already be banned, i mean ****, the only people who DONT want him banned are the people who main him, because he's retardedly broken. I dont really see what is taking to long to get him officially banned. leave the iceys alone, if u can't just beat up on nana than u just suck at the game and shouldn't be at a tourney in the first place.

 

[Wife]

Yeah, exactly. IMO the game is clearly balanced if Climbers really aren't successful at all in tournies. There's only 1 climbers player, ever, who claims top 10 contention. And he'd clearly be good with any character.

 

[Swordplay]

I can't wait until SRB rule set comes out....then we can finally put an end to this discussion.

No matter what happens now...the Rule set will soon come and everybody will be happy and satisfied to play under a fair universal rule set.

O and meta won't be banned. SRB won't go as far as banning a characters......Not when M2K thinks diddy is a counter to metaknight...

Wait metaknight has a weakness???? Tripping is his weakness????!!!!!!! (everybody rushes to learn to play diddy.)


I also don't care anymore if Xyro wants to ban IC chaingrabs for the moment or limit them to whatever that is fine by me. As long as he goes by the SRB rule standard which he said he has done in the past and will do again, then whatever.

Sorry Xyro.....I misjudged you.

 

[Hylian]

my arguement is to ban the IC's as a character.

I dont like the idea but saying 'this throw is banned' or 'this throw isnt', is very confusing and in a competitive match its not what you need.

unfortunatly for the IC's any grab they make CAN be for a stock, EVERY single time. i agree that it takes much skill to 'master' the chainthrows and such, but then you have wobbling T_T. wobbling is banned in numberous places now. BUT people still do it, they'll grab, chain throw, wobble and then bhain throw before anyone cottons on.

For this sole reason the IC's should not be allowed. It is a fair point to say 'good players know how to not get grabbed' and this is 100% true. However it stops players from playing an entertaining match, every time an IC's player sheilds you have to either camp or land behind them. Banning them might not be fully appropriate but its definatly a simple solution.

My argument is that buttered toast tastes better then mexican pizza. Because of this, nothing should be banned.

(I figure if I use thier logic they will understand...right?)

 

[rathy Aro]

the SBR ruleset already came out. ICs cg isn't banned. Infinites don't get banned in this game generally, but have to be ended @ like 300 percent to prevent stalling. But yeah, this topic is sort of pointless since no brawl infinite has gotten banned and ICs have the most harmless one.

 

[gantrain05]

My argument is that buttered toast tastes better then mexican pizza. Because of this, nothing should be banned.

(I figure if I use thier logic they will understand...right?)

lol yes, i love it, and will people just leave the **** inbred iceys alone? seriously if you have so much problem with the **** chaingrab, just go kill nana, its not hard to do.

 

[Olimar369]

pretty brutal argument. I would side on not banning it, because as someone else stated above, the ban should be the last option, and you don't see tournies being dominated. If one or two people drop from some unlucky hit... well... that's kind of part of a game. There is no predestined winner here. They could also randomly drop their controller and get killed to. Things happen. Doesn't really need a ban unless it's being overused by too many to make the game unfun, not just some random match every blue moon, but the game. Look at how other games handle bans before setting that hammer down.