Sheikah Survival Guide: A Sheik Match-up Thread

[phi1ny3]

But this isn't a MU where you want to play a war of outliving, you want one where you have short stage length and boundaries, so you can hold as much of a possible strategical monopoly as possible, giving lucario room is a bad thing, which is why we would probably pick JJ. That and we actually do pretty well in the water, as our recovery and jumping ability is not screwed up in the water.

 

[Judo777]

nah id have to say that sheiks should ban frigate or japes for sure depending on ur preference. Lucario has more recovery options than sheik on frigate although sheiks can still edge guard because at that point lucario's recovery is completely predictable. I still ban it but japes is bad too infact that might be my ban from now on. Japes is bad because it takes our gimp game out of the equation cause lucario has a good second jump and multiple ledges to grab. But lucario is a horizontal killer and that is alot easier on japes and we are still very hurt by our lack of killing at decent percents. Camping is somewhat even for both people on that stage but again the more dmg you rack up the easier it is for him to kill you and we have to work way harder than normal to kill him on that stage. And he has a pretty easy time killing us.

Halberd is definitely a good cp because it makes killing him easier and there is a ton of space offstage for gimping. Plus the dip can mess up his aura sphere.

 

[-dMT-]

I also play a skilled Lucario regularly.

I find that needles work well, but most of the time I'm just spacing bairs and predicting his rolls in the match-up. I also like to throw in some empty short hops to force sloppy approaches, aside from the regular needles. Moment he attacks my shield a bit too close, that's a grab. dthrow, which is usually my choice of throwing to setup for a juggling game, doesn't work well vs Lucario given his dair spam. That leaves fthrow and bthrow. These throws work well since they don't leave him right above you, and thus his dair isn't as annoying. It's important to approach Lucario from the bottom diagonals, especially his lower back diagonal when he is in the air. The angle should be just so that you aren't hit by dair, and you are also out of immediate hit range of fair or bair. Reason I prefer his backside, is his nair hits at his lower front, so that can be covered, but the back is open, even if ever so slightly.

If Lucario ever gets his fair strings on you off stage, DI away and DO NOT jump. he wants you to expend your jump, he'll hit you right out of it, and thus you will be gimped at the loss of your jump. Simply DI away as u perhaps spam fair input to maybe hit him out. Once he stops u can then Di back towards the stage since Sheik can afford to fall pretty low, and then recover with your jump and more. You can also simply jump back towards the stage right after Lucario ends his fair barrage to recover from a higher angle. Just don;t get predictable since he can intercept both, but it's a guessing game.

If you ever get Lucario offstage, be aggressive. Hit himas far as you can and grab the edge quick. Hold the edge, as his upB has no hitbox, so he will simply be forced onto the stage, to a wall if he can, or be gimped.

Wall: watch for a bair when he jumps off the wall. I usually like to hit back to let go of the edge, and fair him into the stage for a stage spike if I can take the initiative before he wallhops.

Stage: You're on the edge and Lucario landed on the stage right there, near you. What do you do? Edge-hop fair? No. Edge hop a bair so you hit with the sweetspot of Sheik's front leg. Not the one she extends behind her. The entire bair hitbox sends opponents behind Sheik, and thus in this case back off the stage. Sweetspotting it will mean he will get sent back pretty far. Grab the edge again and intercept with more bairs when he tries to recover. If he gets past those bairs somehow, to a wall or on the stage again, well guess what - you're right back where you started. Given good judgment and decent reflexes you can keep Lucario trying to get back on stage for a long time, and eventually result in a gimp/KO.

All this is wonderful and all, but Lucario's overall dodge ability, and great priority and range will give Sheik a very tough time on stage. You'll have to get a feel for the right spacing, which is quite touch versus a good Lucario, as well as the right timing so as to know when you can punish with frame advantage. Match is Lucario's favor, but ever so slightly.

I'd say it's a 45-55.

As for stages, ban Frigate and counterpick Halberd. Delfino is also a good choice, but Halberd works better. Perhaps Rainbow Cruise as well.

 

[choknater]

sigh i learned how to use lucario to figure out lucarios weaknesses and stuff

i need to play against lucario more on wifi, as well as using him more. cuz that way i learn a characters weaknesses LOL i suck at learning things from theory bros...

this discussion is only helping me slightly

ive discovered that lucarios ground game is sooo good and forces characters in the air a lot. he doesnt really have broken speed and his projectile isnt the best, but hes definitely really solid and reminds me of rob, he's just an overall good character. i used to think G&W was unbeatable for sheik but i definitely figured out how to beat him through experience, so i think thats the only way i can figure out the matchup...

so i'll contribute more once i play against more lucarios lol

 

[phi1ny3]

lol be careful of learning lucario via wifi, Lucario's wifi game is infamously scrubbish but effective, aka "rollcario".

 

[choknater]

i never lose to scrubby tactics on wifi

cuz i know how to play gayer

if ur talking about learning how to use lucario, i already learned it lol mannn i underestimated him as a character. his fair is a great move, and his better hitboxes at high% are so ****

he has trouble against superior projectile games sometimes but hes still solid and has good maneuverability

and his decent speed makes it seem that he can combat with sheik on equal footing, but his better weight and high percent boosts give him the edge. fully charged aura spheres are scary ughhh

 

[phi1ny3]

I live for FCAS kills, it's the kamehameha of this game lol, and it omnomnoms through AD/spotdodge/roll if timed correctly.

 

[choknater]

yea =\ its a really good projectile

and at high percent even the non charged ones are good, they get bigger

man

i hate it when lucarios balls get big

 

[Browny]

his better hitboxes at high% are so ****

Lucario's hitboxes do not change in size at higher percentages, only aura sphere does.

 

[Snakeee]

I'm not going to write like a whole evaluation of this right now, but I will say that this match up is NO where near as bad as most had originally thought. I completely agree with 45/55 Lucario on this, and really only because of his power boosts.

 

[<π]

>: (

I don't wanna say it but I agree... he he very good varried kill options. his kill throw is the main thing. you can just damage him and wait for an op ni the same way you can with a lot of other characters. he is hard to get into, and even once you are in you have to worry about that kill power. gets very dangerous when you go for a kill.

Obviously if you play smart you can avoid that but you can only camp and be patient so long you know? I hate characters with kill throws. I'd rather play D3.

 

[choknater]

Lucario's hitboxes do not change in size at higher percentages, only aura sphere does.

ah thanks for the clarification

but i heard they linger more? is that true?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Shield stun goes up with Aura boost.

I will say this MU is nowhere as bad as people first thought. FD is a little better for Sheik mostly from needles, but Lucario does like the open space more.

Again 45-55 unless something comes up to change this.

~

Also on a side note,

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=231077

Link is very interested if Sheik is Zelda cross dressing.

Wait you already knew that, well Link boards want to talk about the match-up. Zelda is included in this since some Zelda or Sheik players use both.

Feel free to stop by.

 

[choknater]

haha i provided my 2 cents

 

[saviorslegacy]

Best Stage: Final Destination, Delfino, and Halberd.

Worst stage: Battle field, and Smashville.

Character # 21:

Zero Suit Samus / ZSS​

Ratio:
*Will post info later*​

Best Stage:

Worst stage:

Character # 22:

Bowser​

"I know what you're thinking....all this power, AND looks, too!" ~Bowser

Ratio:
*Will post info later*​

Best Stage:

Worst stage:

Character # 23:

Luigi​

[Mario, Princess, and Toad ask Luigi to jump a gorge]
Luigi: I can't! Uh, I'm having a baby!
Luigi: [fakes labor pains]
[the rest of the group stare at Luigi incredulously, then, offscreen, push Luigi onscreen]
Luigi: [defeated] Well, it was worth a try.

Ratio:
*Will post info later*​

Best Stage:

Worst stage:

Character # 24:

Peach​

"Sweet!" ~Peach

Ratio: 55/45 Peach
*Will post info later*​

Best Stage:

Worst stage:

Character # 25:

Ike​

"Ike: I haven't had a chance to train today. I try to swing a sword everyday, even if it's just for a little while. It helps me focus and keeps me calm. Plus, it's good practice. Haaaa! Kyaaaaa!" - Ike, Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance

Ratio:
*Will post info later*​

Best Stage:

Worst stage:

Character # 26:

Jigglypuff​

Ratio:
*Will post info later*​

Best Stage:

Worst stage:

Character # 27:

Ness​

"Last night there was a solitaire tournament...I lost my shirt..." -Guy in Monotoli Tower, Earthbound

Ratio:
*Will post info later*​

Best Stage:

Worst stage:

Character # 28:

Mario​

"I wish Luigi were here, I could blame him!" - Mario

Ratio:
*Will post info later...*​

Best Stage:

Worst stage:

Character # 29:

Pokemon Trainer/PT​

Ratio:
*Will post info later*​

Best Stage:

Worst stage:

Character # 30:

Samus​

Ratio:
*Will post info later*​

Best Stage:

Worst stage:

Character # 31:

Yoshi​

Ratio:
*Will post info later*​

Best Stage:

Worst stage:

Character # 32:

Sonic​

"Talk about low-budget flights! No food or movies? I'm outta here! I like running better!" - Sonic, Sonic Adventure 2 Battle

Ratio:
*Will post info later*​

Best Stage:

Worst stage:

If any of you have any pictures I could use for these characters or any comments/tips/corrections for the thread, just PM me.

7,7
This all needs updated please.
I frankly do not believe the ratio's are accurate. However, we need supportive information on these match ups.

 

[zeldspazz]

Hmm, I dont usually post here, but Im very interested in the Peach vs. Sheik MU because its just such a frusturating Zelda matchup :3

 

[saviorslegacy]

Hmm, I dont usually post here, but Im very interested in the Peach vs. Sheik MU because its just such a frusturating Zelda matchup :3

I play a Peach main

Basically you gotta know Uair OoS and how to DSmash.
DSmash destroys the turnip and it will hit anything Peach try's to do when she slides in.
Uhhh... when she floats in the air you should Chain.
Punish airial approach's with Vanish sometimes.

Other than that use f-tilt combo's, USmash OoS to punish floating, Needle pressure, DACUS when she first starts to float, Chain at the ledge and Bair space.


Sheik doesn't have any easy match ups. However, this one isn't one of those brick wall type of things.

 

[-dMT-]

You mean Sheik has very little easy match-ups. However little they may be they are there.

Off the top of my head:
Fox
Wolf
Link
Ganondorf (lol)

 

[saviorslegacy]

You mean Sheik has very little easy match-ups. However little they may be they are there.

Off the top of my head:
Fox
Wolf
Link
Ganondorf (lol)

*Fox*
He has a u-tilt lock on us and frankly I find it hard to get a f-tilt lock on one at the right percents to take him to death.

*Wolf*
Same as Fox. His laser is also freakin annoying.

*Link*
I fight Reese's Pieces, Near, Xavier and one other good Link.
Link is far from being low tier and far from being an easy match up.

*Ganon*
Yeah well... I agree
All you gotta do is Chain.
Rather than him you have to work hard on all of your match ups to win.

 

[zeldspazz]

I play a Peach main

Basically you gotta know Uair OoS and how to DSmash.
DSmash destroys the turnip and it will hit anything Peach try's to do when she slides in.
Uhhh... when she floats in the air you should Chain.
Punish airial approach's with Vanish sometimes.

Other than that use f-tilt combo's, USmash OoS to punish floating, Needle pressure, DACUS when she first starts to float, Chain at the ledge and Bair space.


Sheik doesn't have any easy match ups. However, this one isn't one of those brick wall type of things.

@The Dsmash & Chain- Isnt it really easy to just punish cooldown?

I like the chain edgeguarding though Thats a good idea to try. Ill check out this strategy and see if it works for me (the Peach I play is soooooo campy, I hope it works lol) Thanks!

 

[Inferno3044]

Mario's are discussing Sheik now. Give us your 2 cents about this.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=227291&page=156

 

[stealth3654]

Sorry guys. I have been busy lately so I haven't been able to update this thread.

Next on the tier list is Ganondorf.

Discuss!

 

[Judo777]

Fox*
If you cant land ftilt then they are out playing u because this is sheiks second fastest move they cant avoid it forever and if they are hitting u and u cant land this move they are out playing u.

Wolf*
i agree with this one firstly i feel that wolf is harder to tilt lock and because he is so heavy you have to do it more plus he has a sweet reflector to escape with if u screw up. Also without the tilt lock i believe he has the avdantage in the MU

Link*
I still say the link has to severly out play u to win because because gimping link is really easy comparatively and the fact that the further they are away the easier it becomes. An fair on stage at say 80% could very easily kill link because of his hoorid recovery. And he gets locked pretty easy too from our ftilt.

Ganondorf*
Poor Ganondorf.

 

[phi1ny3]

Sorry guys. I have been busy lately so I haven't been able to update this thread.

Next on the tier list is Ganondorf.

Discuss!

Wai-
tier list? Since when was Lucario one spot below Ganondorf?
Oh noes, Lucario's suffering Mewtwo nerf syndrome.

 

[saviorslegacy]

Fox*
If you cant land ftilt then they are out playing u because this is sheiks second fastest move they cant avoid it forever and if they are hitting u and u cant land this move they are out playing u.

Wolf*
i agree with this one firstly i feel that wolf is harder to tilt lock and because he is so heavy you have to do it more plus he has a sweet reflector to escape with if u screw up. Also without the tilt lock i believe he has the avdantage in the MU

Link*
I still say the link has to severly out play u to win because because gimping link is really easy comparatively and the fact that the further they are away the easier it becomes. An fair on stage at say 80% could very easily kill link because of his hoorid recovery. And he gets locked pretty easy too from our ftilt.

Ganondorf*
Poor Ganondorf.

Fox*
They only need to go all crazy on you and play extremely defensive in the 30%'s.

Wolf*
Who cares about weight? It is fall speed that matters. Fox has more fall speed.

Link*
LOL!
It is not easy. I have trouble doing it.
Seriously though, the Links I play always SDI up. Sheik has no moves to knock them down except maybe Fair at 80ish%. When I do get them into a gimping position they usually recover so that there is a disjoint in my blind spot.
That said I usually kill with a ledge guard. It's not bread and butter as you make it seem though.
Oh and BTW, most Links avoid the ledge's. Most of the time if you want to get a Link over to the ledge to Fair them ya gotta Swan or just knock them over and hope you'll Fair them.

*Ganondorf
LOL!
(I helped with the match up so lets move on.)

Wai-
tier list? Since when was Lucario one spot below Ganondorf?
Oh noes, Lucario's suffering Mewtwo nerf syndrome.

I lol'd
Also... I like Mewtwo......




To beat Ganon you use the Chain.
Enough said.

@The Dsmash & Chain- Isnt it really easy to just punish cooldown?

I like the chain edgeguarding though Thats a good idea to try. Ill check out this strategy and see if it works for me (the Peach I play is soooooo campy, I hope it works lol) Thanks!

DSmash... not so much
The Chain has more start up the ending lag. You have a little bit to worry but not much.

To beat ground campy spam Needle's.

 

[zeldspazz]

Ok thank you legacy!

 

[phi1ny3]

But Melee M2 isn't the real M2 unless Taj is playing him, it's "Lol2".

 

[saviorslegacy]

But Melee M2 isn't the real M2 unless Taj is playing him, it's "Lol2".

*pain

I like Mewtwo.

 

[-dMT-]

SL.

Sheik should never lose to a Fox unless the Sheik player is THAT MUCH below the Fox player in skill level. I mean HUGE gap. Think here. Full batch of needles, which ISN't hard to land at early percents, will bring him to 18%. At this point, all you need to do is look for the ftilt. You will get it. Quite easily. It's too fast and the range works really well versus Fox. Once you get it, unless u screw up, which would be your fault cuz well, ftilt lock timing should be - LAZERED into your mind right now - that's his stock, GONE. Repeat 3x. Game. The Fox's entire skill lvl is sealed as soon as you land that ftilt. No Johns lol. I have indeed played some great Foxes. Then again, they are suposedly great - I never will be a good judge of a Fox player cuz well, they all get locked and get the 0-death the saaame way. Sheik is Fox's hard counter.

Wolf just has it a bit easier cuz his game when not locked is better and he's tougher to get the ftilt on. Once you get it though, it can very well be a 0-death. Same for Wolf and Fox, the match-up can become very tough ONLY if you can't keep track of your ftilt decay. Again, this should be Sheik bread and butter.

Link. Ftilt lock. Swan Combo. Gimp. Nuff said. He isn't nearly as easy as Fox, but in no way is this a difficult matchup. Difficult is MK, Snake, GW, Olimar. Not Link lol

G-dorf. lol

 

[zeldspazz]

Well, to contribute the the Gdorf discussion a bit, I remember somebody saying (I think is was Susa) that he can get through the chain camping with an aerial downb.

Other than that he's pretty screwed

 

[Dcold]

Poor Ganon, no good matchups and now he has to deal with this.

 

[Judo777]

Fox*
Ftilt is wayyyy to easy to land period. It is almost safe on sheild esp. if spaced right and if they are avoiding that move they will be avoiding all ur other moves too ie outplaying u.

Wolf*
You misunderstand weight doesnt make him harder to lock its just u cant upsmash him as soon as fox because he wont die. Therefore you have to tilt lock him longer ie more time to escape and more times we have to turn around.

Link*
We are also better than link up close so he kinda needs to try and out camp/ outspace us to win. Since he cant get too close to the ledge that is not as easy. also i know links will throw bombs and make it difficult to gimp him but all it takes is one hit to end it.

 

[saviorslegacy]

SL.

Sheik should never lose to a Fox unless the Sheik player is THAT MUCH below the Fox player in skill level. I mean HUGE gap. Think here. Full batch of needles, which ISN't hard to land at early percents, will bring him to 18%. At this point, all you need to do is look for the ftilt. You will get it. Quite easily. It's too fast and the range works really well versus Fox. Once you get it, unless u screw up, which would be your fault cuz well, ftilt lock timing should be - LAZERED into your mind right now - that's his stock, GONE. Repeat 3x. Game. The Fox's entire skill lvl is sealed as soon as you land that ftilt. No Johns lol. I have indeed played some great Foxes. Then again, they are suposedly great - I never will be a good judge of a Fox player cuz well, they all get locked and get the 0-death the saaame way. Sheik is Fox's hard counter.

Wolf just has it a bit easier cuz his game when not locked is better and he's tougher to get the ftilt on. Once you get it though, it can very well be a 0-death. Same for Wolf and Fox, the match-up can become very tough ONLY if you can't keep track of your ftilt decay. Again, this should be Sheik bread and butter.

Link. Ftilt lock. Swan Combo. Gimp. Nuff said. He isn't nearly as easy as Fox, but in no way is this a difficult matchup. Difficult is MK, Snake, GW, Olimar. Not Link lol

G-dorf. lol

I still say that getting a Fox at 30ish% is harder to do than said.
If Sheik loses they should be hit but I still say you have to work for it.

Link*
Poor fella is so over looked. The hardest thing about Link is to go through his spacing game.
Zair, Boomerangs, Bombs and Arrows are such a *****. -_-
The best way to approach is to wait until a boomerang carries you into him.

I think you are under estimating these character. IDC who they are, I want to know how their clock works and most people have good working clocks. Sure, they may be a bit rusty, but they still work.

Take for example IC's. I know how to beat them. It is far from easy though.
You should always remain about half between the center of the stage and the ledge. This gives you the most elbow room. The idea is to constantly Needle. They can desync if you do so. They can spam Ice Blocks however. Luckily chain destroys those.
When up close ALWAYS do f-tilt> rapid jabs. It is well worth it and your best damaging tool in this match up while on stage
However, you best bet is to get them off stage. There you can chain guard them and remove all hope of recovery.
This match up is not 80 : 20.
It should be more like 65 : 35 because the main reason why we have that ratio is because we can't f-tilt lock and it is EASIER to CG us. With enough skill from an IC main every match up will be like Sheik minus CG's on them and tilt locks.


Snake is easier than you would think.
Since I have said it before I wont repeat everything....
*what to focus on*
Keeping him on the ledge. Also juggle him.
His explosive's aren't as much trouble for you since you can out maneuver them and Needle things.
I also have a combo that sets up a kill a 60 percent and have a ton of set ups.
However, I keep a lot to myself. This is one of those things. When I go to tournies I plan on bring with me stuff no one else knows or VERY few know.

Oh God.... don't ever get me started on MK.
Long story short... I think it is 55 : 45 Sheik.

I have honestly not looked into GAW yet.

Oli= use more chain, us more needle's, edge hog, one Needle= safely removed his second jump, f-tilt DSmash to get him over the ledge.. also FSmash and GR him over the ledge (quite effective).

Well, to contribute the the Gdorf discussion a bit, I remember somebody saying (I think is was Susa) that he can get through the chain camping with an aerial downb.

Other than that he's pretty screwed

I made the thread and I think SuSa was quizing me because he didn't believe it or something.

Oh, and you can knock him out of Wiz Kick with Chain, it is just harder to.
Also, chain camping under a platform removes all hope for him.

Poor Ganon, no good matchups and now he has to deal with this.

He had to deal with it about 2 months ago when the Ganon mains were discussing the match up.

Fox*
Ftilt is wayyyy to easy to land period. It is almost safe on sheild esp. if spaced right and if they are avoiding that move they will be avoiding all ur other moves too ie outplaying u.

Wolf*
You misunderstand weight doesnt make him harder to lock its just u cant upsmash him as soon as fox because he wont die. Therefore you have to tilt lock him longer ie more time to escape and more times we have to turn around.

Link*
We are also better than link up close so he kinda needs to try and out camp/ outspace us to win. Since he cant get too close to the ledge that is not as easy. also i know links will throw bombs and make it difficult to gimp him but all it takes is one hit to end it.

*above


I always have this feeling like it is me pitted against everyone else..... owell. lol

 

[#HBC | Scary]

How to beat Oli. SH Soft nair to rapid jab. This and chain, that is all.

 

[Tristan_win]

How to beat Oli. SH Soft nair to rapid jab. This and chain, that is all.

...Pivot grab.

and I've yet to see a sheik beat olimar blue pikmen grab range with the chain.

 

[-dMT-]

SL, everyone has difficulty versus certain characters and an easy time versus others in their own unique experiences. The overall match-ups are a way to average this by pitting together the advantages and disadvantages of the 2 characters against one another and taking into consideration how easy it is to dominate for one over the other. In that regard, Sheik vs Fox should not even be discussed. I don't even think many Fox mains will stick up for Fox vs Sheik as much as you are right now lol. I'm not underestimating him, you are overestimating.

Have I lost to Fox's? Yes. Plenty. Then I learned why. I was trying too hard. Doing too much. If Fox is ever at 30% and you have a fresh ftilt, guess what? You screwed up. Fox at 15-20% and fresh ftilt = Fox stock - 1.

Fox cannot make the boast of having a sure-fire inescapable 0-death once initiated against Sheik. Sheik can make such a statement. This alone sways the match-up a great deal. Fox shold not even be discussed at this point.

Link... uhm... If you can get through T.Link's projectile game, Link is cake. No, not the cake that is a lie. Real cake. TLink is about an even matchup to approximate. I'm sure everyone would agree. So how is it that the slower, ftilt-lockable, more easily needle campable, and MUCH more easily gimpable version of him should be considered difficult at all? His KO power and range? Sure those are good things. Hell if it wasn't for those, We'd be discussing who Sheik owns faster, Link or Ganondorf. Link is an easy match-up for Sheik. Very easy. Are there good Link's out there that can beat good Sheiks? Yea. You'll find that it's rather rare though.

Snake's not as hard as most people make him out to be. As Sheik I feel very comfortable versus Snake. I just think most Sheik mains haven't tapped into her juggle game as much as you and I like to mention. xD

MK.... enlighten me. You know my AIM. Whenever.



Ganondorf. We're really discussing this?

Chain. Needles. Ftilt lock. Swan combo. Blindfolded gimpability. Gift tier.

10-90 vs Sheik, and I'm feeling generous.

I actually play like 3 great Ganondorf players. If there's a group of people on this planet that do not underestimate Ganondorf's capabilities, I am among them. That's all you need to do to win anyway. Don't underestimate. Know his capabilities, and where they end. Stay out of his box, and win.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

...Pivot grab.

and I've yet to see a sheik beat olimar blue pikmen grab range with the chain.

It actually works. Yea, the pivot grab is good but for some reason; I can't explain it, it works.

Fearless, a top oli in FL, was confused to why it was working. I think it's almost safe until in proven wrong. Just my opinion though.

As far as chain, it worked against him. Only thing chain lost to was a thrown purple.

 

[<π]

Um... wow don't underestimate fox.

DON'T underestimate gannondorf.

 

[-dMT-]

Um... wow don't underestimate fox.

DON'T underestimate gannondorf.

Not underestimating either of them. Especially not Ganondorf. I thought I made myself clear on that lol.

 

[Judo777]

soft nair to jabs is a decent approach with oli and i used it for some time but its also an old approach most olis know how to beat it now. As tristan said if you SH they will just run away and pivot grab which is like completely safe almost. The other thing about this approach is you have to approach from above which oli can just upsmash you out of. If you can connect with the nair then yea use it its great. But olis will watch out for it.