Sheikah Survival Guide: A Sheik Match-up Thread

[choknater]

sh nair allll daiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii

 

[saviorslegacy]

Snake's not as hard as most people make him out to be. As Sheik I feel very comfortable versus Snake. I just think most Sheik mains haven't tapped into her juggle game as much as you and I like to mention. xD

MK.... enlighten me. You know my AIM. Whenever.



Ganondorf. We're really discussing this?

Chain. Needles. Ftilt lock. Swan combo. Blindfolded gimpability. Gift tier.

10-90 vs Sheik, and I'm feeling generous.

lol, agreed.
Me vs a Snake
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dt7vRwAG2ow
I was actually getting 3 stocked early that evening.
I think he was just tired in this match. lol

LMFAO!!!!! Gift tier!!!!!!! XD

As far as chain, it worked against him. Only thing chain lost to was a thrown purple.

I can beat a purple.

sh nair allll daiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii

Oh yeah
Auto canceling to!

 

[Judo777]

Lol that snake took 82 dmg from a jab flurry.

Oh and to beat this dead horse into the ground..... with olimar the ONLY thing that can get through sheiks chain is a blue and white pikmins grab.

 

[choknater]

savior u have a strange and peculiar sheik play style but i kinda like it. u are patient

 

[saviorslegacy]

Lol that snake took 82 dmg from a jab flurry.

lol, it is to good TBH.

savior u have a strange and peculiar sheik play style but i kinda like it. u are patient

You shoulda seen the Luigi match I had.
I was on my last stock and he was half way through his second.
I GR'd to get him over the pit and then used a mixture of Needle's, rising Nairs, Bair and Fairs to do about 50% before he was finally gimped.
After that he came down and I practically 0 - death'd him be out spacing with Bair, SH Nair auto cancels to punish his ground approach (sliding jabs), jab combos (f-tilt> jab flurry> DA is epic if you buffer it), D-Throw juggling and I finished the juggle with a DACUS tipper.

I have a Lucario match that Ima upload that has me tipper USmash almost three times in a row.

Yeah, patience is a virtue. I find being patient and punishing mistakes to let me get in close are best. Since Sheik is short range I find myself out gunned a lot. The next best thing is to use your speed to out maneuver them and take advantage of any mistake they make. Then you can go all aggressive, super gimp, juggle and what not.


ps I fought his IC's. I actually done pretty good and avoided getting grabbed except for twice.
I really got to work on that match up. Chain is like Jesus in that MU. Attempt it as much as you can.
Just make sure you can do it well enough not to get shield grabbed.......
Also, Needle's are golden.

Hey Chok, I know wi-fi isn't much but do you want to try fighting me so I can get some more experience on that match up and come up with new idea's to beat IC's?

 

[choknater]

i enjoy wifi matches

get at me sometime

wanna play next week?

ganondorf matchup.... i dont even wanna talk about it... lol... just watch out for his dash attack i guess

<3

why are we not supposed to underestimate him

 

[saviorslegacy]

i enjoy wifi matches

get at me sometime

wanna play next week?

ganondorf matchup.... i dont even wanna talk about it... lol... just watch out for his dash attack i guess

<3

why are we not supposed to underestimate him

I'll contact you on AIM sometime.

Because underestimation leads to ignorance.
Ignorance leads death.
Death leads to failure.
Failure leads to me laughing at you.
Me laughing at you leads to you killing me.
After that you go to jail, become someones *****, lose your GF, your family turns their back on you and after you get out you are unable to get a job. That is, if you get out.

Just think, all of that could be avoided if you didn't underestimate a character.

 

[Judo777]

I'll contact you on AIM sometime.

Because underestimation leads to ignorance.
Ignorance leads death.
Death leads to failure.
Failure leads to me laughing at you.
Me laughing at you leads to you killing me.
After that you go to jail, become someones *****, lose your GF, your family turns their back on you and after you get out you are unable to get a job. That is, if you get out.

Just think, all of that could be avoided if you didn't underestimate a character.

Provided he gets caught for killing you.....if hes smart about it he might get away (<_<) lol

 

[<π]

a few tech chases and you are at kill percent. one good read after that and you are dead, lol.

same with fox. get him past ftilt percent and get this... you actualy have to fight him, lol.

going into a match ill prepared or with a bad additude can cost you a 105: -5 ratio match. just play against everyone like they are a threat and you'll save yourself some embarrassment.

 

[saviorslegacy]

Just play against everyone like they are a threat and you'll save yourself some embarrassment.

Like the time Scary lost to a Ganon in a tourney match! XD

 

[choknater]

oh lol yeah <3 i know that

against ganon i still go in with the attitude of 'im gonna ****' though

 

[-dMT-]

same with fox. get him past ftilt percent and get this... you actually have to fight him, lol.

No, sir. You never have to fight Fox after you land your ftilt, provided you have the right amount of decay. This is what i have been preaching. The best thing a Fox player can do versus Sheik is change character. That simple. The entire match versus Fox has but 3 phases if played correctly.

1. Get Fox to about 15-20% without the use of ftilt. Full needles is usually what gets you at the perfect percent. A throw to a possible spaced aerial or mini juggle can also get the job done.

2. Catch Fox in ftilt. Lock him. - Not hard to do guys. Seriously. Against Wolf maybe, but Fox...cmon. Besides that's the main reason for the difference between Wolf and Fox match-up.

3. Prevent Fox from escaping lock by NOT messing up your timing (your responsibility, has nothing to do with Fox. Fox has nothing he can do to get out. At best he'll try to DI behind you because up is rather futile for him. You can maintain a lock withthe fox literally in you by alternating right left right left for the ftilt. It's rather easy and the timing doesn't change). Usmash kill him. Done.


MOST COMMON MISTAKE VS FOX

I've lost to Fox many times before just cuz of this. Now I 3 stock the best of em.

DO NOT TRY TO FIGHT HIM ANY OTHER WAY.

Once his damage is too hight and your ftilt is not decayed enough you just screwed yourself over because now you actually have to fight the Fox, and deal with w/e skill he has and whatnot. Provided his shine gimp and usmash power and how he can combo into with dair and such... it will become quite difficult. Reason the matchup is in our favor is not cuz Sheik outclasses Fox in every area. It's because she doesn't have to. Simple as that.


EDIT: Read Light's input for the MU versus Fox. Ftilt > jab, straight >Ftilt lock. If this is true, you guys can even skip what i have down as phase 1 lmao. So it CAN get easier.

 

[choknater]

im bad at tilt locking in brawl just like im bad at wobbling in melee

AHHHH such is life ahahhahaha

 

[-dMT-]

lol ftilt lock is one of the easiest locks in the game - if not THE easiest. The timing is nothing special. I mean cmon. We spend time perfecting the input for the most difficult DACUS in the game.. but we're gonna mess up a simple *** ftilt lock? I'm assuming even people who secondary Sheik have this 100% by now.

 

[choknater]

i just suck at keeping the rhythm!!!!!!!!!!

trust me

in melee, people always tell me "you're so good with ice climbers, but you would be so much better if you wobbled! i learned it in 10 minutes!"

i am just thrown off reallly easily, i don't know why

but yea usually i get them down, its just i mistime them randomly lol

 

[saviorslegacy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=385luvMXOmU
Just go.....
DO DO DO DO DO-DO-DO DO, DO DO DO DO DO-DO-DO

That beat is the f-tilt lock.

 

[Dcold]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=385luvMXOmU
Just go.....
DO DO DO DO DO-DO-DO DO, DO DO DO DO DO-DO-DO

That beat is the f-tilt lock.

Rofl it's funny because it's true xD

Must...play song...while brawling...

 

[#HBC | Scary]

Like the time Scary lost to a Ganon in a tourney match! XD

Low blow sir........

Low

blow.

 

[saviorslegacy]

Rofl it's funny because it's true xD

Must...play song...while brawling...

I know it's true.
I was having trouble f-tilt locking until I played that song while Brawling. I found it easier to f-tilt lock while playing that song in my head.

Low blow sir........

Low

blow.

How did you lose anyways? I wanna see the videos.

 

[-dMT-]

lol or just hack your wii so that all the neutral stages have songs with the beat matching ftilt. Then the timing will just get etched into your mind.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

I lost because I played completely awful and nor up to par. I also lost because I definitely underestimated him and I payed for it in spades. He was reading me really well too because I was making noobish mistakes.

Since this though, I've placed well at every tourney I've gone to. Zhouten is still a monster!! Easily top 4 Ganon in the nation.

I won't make this mistake again lol

 

[<π]

zhoten almost took a game off of CO18 (or did) if I remember corectly. Gdorf is a bad character. but he can kill you with a few good tech chaces. thats even more true against bsheik.

 

[stealth3654]

Okay, lets move on to Link.

Discuss!

 

[ddonaldo]

You must be hyper agressive vs Link, otherwise this matchup is not as much in sheik's favour as it should be. Give link space and then he can do what link's do and rack up damage from a distance and keep you away with z-air and his sword.
Give him no space whatsoever and there is nothing he can do, chase him of the edge for the easy gimp. 65:35 at least

 

[saviorslegacy]

I agree with ddonaldo, you must be aggressive.
Link can sit back and out space you all day long. Also be wary of bomb tricks. They'll SH bomb drop, bomb drop catch, Zair> Bomb, blow themselves up and SDI into you AND other little tricksies.

To get in close I recommend crawling. You can crawl under a normally throw bomb, a normally throw rang, a arrow that hasn't begun to fall and most importantly... you can crawl under Zair.

A Chain ledge guard should be enough to gimp him. It can be hard for Sheik to gimo with an airial because they will almost always recover from below the ledge and hit you with that blasted disjoint. If a Link knows he can't make it and you are foolish enough to get gimp happy he will Spin Attack you out of spite. I have been stage spiked this way.....
So yeah, gimping is easier said than done.

 

[Dcold]

I agree with ddonaldo, you must be aggressive.
Link can sit back and out space you all day long. Also be wary of bomb tricks. They'll SH bomb drop, bomb drop catch, Zair> Bomb, blow themselves up and SDI into you AND other little tricksies.

To get in close I recommend crawling. You can crawl under a normally throw bomb, a normally throw rang, a arrow that hasn't begun to fall and most importantly... you can crawl under Zair.

A Chain ledge guard should be enough to gimp him. It can be hard for Sheik to gimo with an airial because they will almost always recover from below the ledge and hit you with that blasted disjoint. If a Link knows he can't make it and you are foolish enough to get gimp happy he will Spin Attack you out of spite. I have been stage spiked this way.....
So yeah, gimping is easier said than done.

That and, if you get Link far enough offstage that he is close to where the bubble comes up at the side, he is dead, if he is too close to the ledge use chain over the ledge to gimp his 2nd jump and spin attack then ledge guard. But if he is mid distance...there's the fun, sh needles will almost always hit him from that distance, leaving him unable to recover. Give him space and you are gonna be annoyed, pressure him and HE MUST RECOVER.

Around 65-35 Sheik, this is a matchup that you just have to get your shiz done in order for it to be easy.

 

[-dMT-]

The Link Boards were discussing the Zelda/Sheik MU. This is quoted from there:

A Zelda/Sheik player will go Sheik for the entire match here most likely. Only time you'll face a Zelda is in the case of a player who refuses to use Sheik.

Zelda/Sheik players in general start with Sheik due to her extraordinary ability to rack damage at early percents. Only time they ever switch to Zelda in most matches is for the fresh kill at high percents. In the case of Link, however, this probably won't happen as Link is fairly easy to gimp, especially at the hands of Sheik.

At early percents there's Sheik's ftilt lock. It's just as the name implies, a lock. Link's aerials aren't fast enough for a sure-fire escape and in my experience Sheik's swan combo is also effective vs Link.

Swan Combo: A series of ftilts being followed up by a SH fair and then into another ftilt... etc..

These 2 tools will lead to major damage versus Link. Link is also easily juggled via Sheik's juggle game, using dthrow, AC uair, sour-spotted nairs, and baiting air dodges to re-grab or tilt again. Only real answer Link has to this is his dair, which when predicted can be punished hard.

Link has good range and disjointed hitboxes that can keep a Sheik at bay when played defensively and safely. His projectile game can also be solid, however Sheik's needles can stop Link in his tracks or mess up his setup.

The match-up is a rather large disadvantage for Link, since the slightest opening from Link that allows the Sheik into the in-game will be the end of him. Ftilt lock, swan combo together can damage and force Link to the edge and off stage, where needles or a simple aerial can finish him off with a gimp.

I say it's at BEST a 30:70 vs Sheik, although imo I'd argue for 25:75 or even 20:80 against Link.

The mathcup versus Zelda should be taken seprately imo, since as I stated, a Zelda/Sheik main will almost always go Sheik only for this matchup. So whenever you deal with Zelda, it'll be a Zelda only player.

lol. Link is easy. Another match-up in the taste of Ganondorf. Don't underestimate, know what he can do to you and all of that which you can do to him, and this will be in your pocket much more often than not. Sheik has to stay at long range and close range always. Never get caught at mid-range, where Link will dominate. Up close you can unleash all of which Sheik is good at with no worries, and at long range Sheik's needles outcamp anything Link has, especially when there's a lack of platforms, such as FD or Smashville. Still you'll wanna be inside most of the time and just take Link to 90% or so with the ftilt and swan combo if you wish to get him near the edge. Gimp Link. It's easier and earlier than trying for a power KO. Link can do that sooner.


Key Points:
- Never dwell in mid-range. link dominates. Stay close, and if you must retreat, retreat long.
- Ftilt lock, Swan Combo, Juggling all work. For juggling you simply need to predict whether or not he'll use his dair. If he ardodges, punish. If you can bait the dair, avoid and then restart juggle, or w/e tickles your fancy.
- Whenever you retreat long range, don't be afraid to unload some needles his way. Only option he has at long range is a charged arrow. if that's not telegraphed, idk what is. Boomerang is also rather slow and easy to shield. Without bombs, his camp game is hindered and at long range his bombs will not reach.

Just be smart, patient and an opportunist. You're a ninja. Ninjas don't rush in blindly and expect everything they do to work just because they're cool like that (Naruto may have twisted the image of a ninja in the modern society) but they wait for an opportunity to strike at full force and deall MASSIVE damage. Be a ninja. Win.

 

[choknater]

i will never lose to a link or ganon :D

 

[ddonaldo]

obvious, yes but I think it still should be mentioned. especially when at a high %, do not follow up link from underneath when he is midair or you have basically given link a free KO since he will d-air you

 

[-dMT-]

obvious, yes but I think it still should be mentioned. especially when at a high %, do not follow up link from underneath when he is midair or you have basically given link a free KO since he will d-air you

that's why you bait it, and punish xD

 

[-Mars-]

i will never lose to a link or ganon :D

Then you will never be fortunate enough to play Legan lol.

 

[choknater]

dont worry, i won't lose!

 

[stealth3654]

Okay. Last on the tier list is Captain Falcon. I'll update the OP as soon as I have the time.

Discuss!!!

 

[-dMT-]

Same as Ganondorf for Captain Falcon. Needles. Chain. Ftilt lock. Swan combo. Gimp.

What else did I say... o yea.. too bad CF isn't Gift tier.

On a more serious note:

- Jab through most of what he has; you can.
- He has pretty much no answer to a walking ftilt from sheik. It'll clank or eat through all that he has.
- Ftilt lock him and juggle him. Go for a gimp if you can get him off stage.
- Chain camp when you are at high percent. Another thing he has no answer to and this will eliminate his KO opions.
- Needle camp when you want to force approaches. Again, no answer and no surprise here.

Remember that Falcon has priority issues, since most if not all of his useful and practical attacks are barely, if at all, disjointed. he also has like no true combos or locks on you.

Leave room for the fact that he can kill and his speed can make for a harder to punish character, but keep in mind he is virtually a faster, weaker Ganondorf, and this MU seems to be 80-20 Sheik favor.

 

[-Mars-]

80-20? more like 60-40.

 

[Zankoku]

65, I think.

Just play careful and don't fall for his bull****. His recovery is somewhat gimpable, which you should take advantage of. Don't underestimate his mobility and you should be fine.

 

[-dMT-]

80-20? more like 60-40.

lolwut.

I don't give 60-40 matchups where all it really takes to win against an opponent of the same caliber is to not underestimate them and take out all that which he cannot pass.

80-20. Give me a good argument in favor of CF in this MU and you MAY convince me it can be 70-30.

60-40 is lulz. That's you telling me our advantage versus CF is the same statistically as Lucario's advantage versus Sheik. o.0

 

[-Mars-]

I don't really need to convince you of anything. I could see this being 65-35 at the most.

Falcon is heavy, he has fairly good mobility, he has a beast jab game, legitimate kill move in bair........unless you gimp him he's living til around 150 every stock.

In fact he might have an overall better aerial game then Sheik I would say.

While not having realy good kill moves persay, he does have power so you cant afford to make mistakes against him and Sheiks recovery isn't much better than Falcon's imo so I don't see where this 80-20 advantage is coming from lmao.

 

[Zankoku]

Actually, since Sheik has both a tether and a recovery with far less landing cooldown that can travel in multiple directions besides just diagonally up and forward, I'd say it's quite a bit better than Falcon's.

Besides the space animals, practically every character lives until around 150% every stock anyway, so I rarely treat that as an advantage unless it's a character that doesn't care about high damage. (Snake, Dedede)

I think Falcon's margin of error is significantly smaller than Sheik's in the matchup, which is why I say it's a 65/35, possibly bordering 70/30 but closer to 65 I think.

 

[-Mars-]

Tether is really taken out of the equation if you're playing anyone with any idea of how to play against Sheik, since grabbing the ledge pretty much opens her up for punishment.

I do agree that Sheiks recovery is better though, didn't mean to imply that they were the same just that the difference isn't that large.