Sheikah Survival Guide:
A Sheik Match-up Thread
A Sheik Match-up Thread
"Knowing others is intelligence; knowing yourself is true wisdom.
Mastering others is strength; mastering yourself is true power." Lao Tzu (c.604 - 531 B.C.)
"Young cat, if you keep your eyes open enough, oh, the stuff you would learn! The most wonderful stuff!" Dr. Suess
The purpose of this thread is to discuss and help people about specific match-ups and clean up the Sheik boards a little by keeping all the character match-ups all in one thread. We will discuss one character per week. After that week, I'll post the ratio of the match-up, strategies and tips that were posted, and best/worst stages.
The order of the match-ups will go in order of The Official SBR Brawl Tier List v1.0. If you want to discuss a different character other than what is next on the list, just ask and I will change it to that character the following week if enough people agree to it. Please stay on topic and try to give information you know is correct.
The difficulty will be color coded and read just like DanGR's Character Board Specific Match-up Chart Project thread:
Red - Very disadvantageous (30/70 - 10/90)
Orange - Disadvantageous (40/60 - 35/65)
Yellow - Nearly Even (45/55 - 55/45)
Green - Advantageous (60/40 - 65/35)
Blue - Very advantageous (70/30 - 90/10)
This thread will be talking about the Sheik match-ups, not Zelda match-ups. If you would like to see what the match-up is as Zelda, then go here.
Current discussion: Diddy Kong
To save time and effort, you can prest ctrl + "F" and type in the character's name you are searching for to bring you right to that character's section.
Character # 1:
"Expose yourself to your deepest fear; after that, fear has no power,
and the fear of freedom shrinks and vanishes. You are free." Jim Morrison (1943 - 1971)
Ratio: 40/60 Meta Knight
- flat stages with less platforms, that way metaknight is forced to approach in a specific way ie at you from the air or at you from the ground, none of this through platforms junk. i suggest FD if they don't ban it, followed by Halberd, followed by SV, followed by PS1
- with proper shield tilting habits tornado is dangerous to use against sheik unless she's put in a bad shielding position, getting needles'd for 20% or getting straight up grabbed in tornado lag is annoying. mk can retreat with the tornado though...but once he floats away he's not really going to come back so just charge needles.
- speaking of needles: use them in this matchup. needle camp intelligently; make an effort to create pressure for the MK seeing as this is your basic option against him that's always guaranteed to do something good at mid-range or long-range. don't use it at short range. needles are always fun to throw at MKs when he's away from the stage because they put him in an awkward position where he has to waste a jump or two to recover the lost height OR he can just drop below. either way it's just kind of funny and a smart move to do anyways since it's a free 18%
- you must recover (!!) in MULTIPLE ways. if you're at a lower percent you can afford to get hit, so just keep mixing up your recoveries so that later on he's guessing. hell even at higher percents just make an effort to mix it up. MK can punish predictable recoveries in so many different ways -___- Also try not to recover from below that much, smart MKs will notice that once you cross a specific line your chain is no longer a very safe option if they go down there...
- i don't care that you think it's a kill move. when you get a grab, don't throw them. just release, dacus. it's a free 30% each time, +5% for pummels if he's at a higher percentage. the chances for a grab are so slim in this matchup that you will have a refreshed usmash EVERY time.
- ftilt. yeahhhhh his ftilt is kind of broken too, even moreso than yours. at lower percents just double ftilt -> aerial and stuff. if he makes dumb approaches just ftilt -> dsmash him or something. of course, lock when possible; though getting the usmash may be difficult?
- chain is something i have yet to test. i'll be recording against OS probably on sunday (and i'll most likely forget what I'm saying here -__-) so i'll get back to you guys on that. in general you're just going to have to be really careful about chain, he attacks faster than you retract so >___>;
- badly spaced bairs get you up B'd. don't space your bairs badly. alternative options for MK for badly spaced bairs are: at mid range, SH Fair, if he's feeling risky at mid range, uair, if you're really bad at spacing, nair. if you're at long range and spamming bairs at him you're doing it wrong, he can just dash shield under you unless he's in inital dash...but trying to space with his initial dash range in mind is just crazy because all of his aerial options + his grab are dumb good
- don't hesitate to go after MK if he starts recovering low...if it's an obvious loop then just kinda drop off and bair, most of the time you'll clash with the top of the loop and you'll get sent towards the stage while he goes away for a few moments. it's only 8% with bad knockback, your bair hits him for a good amount too right? with the rush if it's obvious that it's going to happen you're going to want to try and drop -> chain with some chain left to retract.
- if you have to throw...dthrow or something. use fthrows when you feel as though you've got a hang of their DI patterns or you just wanna try and throw them off. throws should be used to get a general sense of whether they know how to properly DI and stuff...if they know how to DI useless moves like Sheik's grab then I would say it's likely that they know how to DI the other stuff though this may be wrong. just don't try to throw offensively, instead just find time to charge needles.
- use zelda if you want. it doesn't make this any easier really because you lose the advantage but gain it in other areas. i'd stay with this ninja because she's fast and stuff not to mention needles =)
- jab cancelling or dtilt shield pressure might lead to some 623P shenanigans from MK, so just jab cancel to grab works. i dunno when you're ever going to pressure MK's shield so much that he forgets to grab though, sheik's shield pressure options are pretty piss poor against MK
- i dunno about using nair/utilt/jabs in this...i'm especially wary of nair since it's low priority is a pain. it's startup and nice damage when strong is pretty cool though, i'm just really not sure when to use it vs. MK, ever. maybe OOS? UTilt I'm not sure about either, the jab combo too. UTilt maybe when he's flying at you with the glide? someone test that.
- FAirrrrrrr....I dislike this aerial against people who have good range. I play against people who MAIN character with good range. therefore someone inform us about this.
- UAir is okay, just don't be surprised when dairs start coming your way.
- against the shuttle loop you'll want to hold towards the stage for an easy DI, sheik's light though so be sure to DI it right. when you're descending you're going to have to play a guessing game, which is unfortunate given metaknight's ridiculous options. with dsmash DI straight up, it's always sending you horizontal. screw dair, don't DI that move just get the **** away. fair tap DI out. uair just...try to get away >_> nair you should be getting hit with as a kill or punishment so play smart to avoid this, it's a single hitter so DI is not happening, really. i never observe the trajectory because most times when i get hit by a nair it's in a situation where once i get hit i'm fukked.
- when doing the getup most metaknights will either grab, dsmash, fsmash or dtilt/ftilt. getup -> shield will get rid of a lot of these options. just...try to keep them guessing so that you're not hit by any of these. meta****'s ledge traps + sheik's terribad options to escape out of ledge traps = ouch. don't do full ledge hop or ledge hop aerial btw, it's really stupid. ledge hop airdodges are also not that great. so either shield, roll, or getup -> dodge. get up to jab might push him back even in shield? i dunno, just don't ever full ledge hop or ledge hop air dodge or ledge hop aerial.
in general metaknight is dumb. just....don't try to do anything ******** and stick to the basics: needle camping, critical spacing with ftilts/critical decay with ftilts, and good shield/di habits. the only real "gimmick"/trick here is GR -> Usmash. Do it consistently so as to get the tipper; the later you do input it (though the window is small there's enough time where you hitting him will depend on when you input) the more of the "side" boxes you'll get. ideally you want the tipper or the double/triple hit though the multi-hits will be a problem if they're at low enough percents.
When does sheik tipper upsmash kill MK and when do Zelda's smashes kill MK? I'd figure it out myself, but I have no wii. If I do find out I'll edit this post with the numbers.
Using those two links as sources tipper upsmash seems like a better kill move even when stale.
Zelda is only strictly necessary if you haven't kept Sheik fresh and decayed in the right way, depending on circumstance I often go pure Sheik for stocks. Keep F Tilt decayed, keep D Smash and N Air fresh. Grab release to DACUS even when he's not in KO percent, only in very isolated cases will you hit with the U Smash for the would-have-been kill before it's fully refreshed again.
Your generaly damage racking should spacing B Airs and needle camping like a *****, when he's close the usual jab and F Tilt mixup serves well, you should always be looking for the grab aswell in this match, they're rare but that DACUS damage really contributes.
Generally learn MK as a character, know when to attack on reaction after the shuttleloop where he's vulnerable, tilt the shield for tornado, be ever cautious of what moves he's in range for etc.
*Grab release to DACUS is your friend in this match-up. Use it whenever possible.Needles and Chain cancel and out prioritize Tornado, 30% to 70% is guaranteed Ftilt Lock.
*You have projectiles (that go through match tornado) and MK doesn't have any projectiles. Take advantage of this!
Counter Pick: Final destination. This allows full use of your grab release to DACUS without platforms interfering. Also, the flat stage means easier needle pressure.
Ban: Rainbow Cruise. MK can go all over this stage and not die while gimping you quite easily. Also, it is very situational to get a grab release into DACUS on this stage. BAN THIS STAGE!!!
Character # 2:
"War is not nice." Barbara Bush (1925 - )
Ratio: 40/60 Snake
All Sheik really needs to do is space well, and I think she'll put up a good fight.
The best way to play this MU is getting the Snake to approach.
Use your needles in a clever way, so that you hit the Snake or that you hit his grenade and you blow him up.
Dont simply throw them. Look at his cooking of grenads and throw them at the right time.
FTilt rapes Snake and afterwards you can juggle him.
If he pulls a grenade while falling down: Wait, grab, throw him up and throw the granade away (get away from the granade).
If he attacks simply shield it and grab him afterwards.
Shiek doesnt throw Snake very high, so that snake doesnt has got much time tricks to come down. (for example: B-Reversal)
To kill him try to USmash him out of a juggle.
Juggling is the best way to win this MU.
Sheik's needles hurt Snake's camping game so much. Just throw them at Snake "all the time" when he's trying to camp you from a far distance since they either make him drop the grenade or just outright blow him up.
Mortar slide approaches are also easily stopped with a single needle, Snakes shouldn't rely on it as a tool to gain mobilty in this match up.
So while SNake is walking up to Sheik, she ... still needs to make smart use of her needles and her mobility to bait tilts or something and punish it accordingly. You want to get her grabs and ftilt in. Jab cancel mix ups with ftilt and grabs are also useful.
It's all about making him come to you while needleing/baiting him to punish him hard when he's leaving himself open.
Try to get Snake in the air. Sheik dominates Snake in the air, but watch out for his nair, uair, and bair. The hit box for the bair goes from the tips of his feet all the way to his head. Sheik can destroy Snake's mines with the chain and needles, and can make Snake approach with needles, also (Fun fact: If Snake is crawling forward at all when some charged needles are over him, you can still hit him, but not while he is stationary crouching.).
One thing I found out is that Snake's up tilt sends you slightly away form him. So DI away from Snake instead of towards him when hit to survive a little better. Also, if you are over 100% and Snake Dthrows you, do not do a get up attack. He will be able to hit you with an up tilt before you get your attack out. Instead, just roll away or do a regular get up (if Snake isn't expecting it).
-Don't get hasty, his tilts have massive range, do massive damage, and give massive knockback
-Play a "hit and run" (for lack of a better term) type of game
-Snake wants you to approach him.
*Snake can control battlefield with ease.
*Punish his tilts! I mained Snake and I know there is nothing worse than missing a KO move
^^^^^ If you keep poking damage into him and running away he will try his tilts to keep you away. Punish the ending lag WHENEVER IT IS POSSIBLE.
*Remember where he puts his C4. It will self detonate when time is up so be careful <<<<<< Especially with platforms
The match up becomes tedious but its manageable if you are patient.
-Snake out ranges sheik with tilts - Sheik wins in grab fights
-Snake hurts bad - Sheik can build damage fast
-Snake lives to high percent - Sheik dies at lower percent
-Snake is slow - Sheik is fast
My strategy with sheik vs snake:
-Power shield nades or blow them with needles
-Tech chase chain grabs
-Running circles around snake
-setting up DACUS
-keep snake in the air
-needle camping can work semi-well vs snake depending on how good they are at using grenades, a good snake can get his grenades over the needles and make it so they blow up closer to you than to him. If a snake starts to do this to me, I begin use speed approaches and then punish with needles when he trys to reset and then approach again.
-my preferred approach is to dash power shield nades, or run under them as he pulls them out. Although if i have platforms to work with then I will use them to help me avoid the grenades and get close to him
- once i'm inside snakes guard i will usually grab him at lower percents since more than likely he won't go for an up-tilt unless your at kill percent so i can get a jab to grab in without him being able to punish.
The tech chase grab system i employ works to varying degrees depending on what snake tries to do to get out of it. I usually do down throw, wait for the air dodge, regrab, down-throw, forward throw, forward- throw. The snake can break out during any of the throws by simply jumping again and cyphering, but i have yet to see a snake do so. Also the forward throws can be punished by grenades or jumping, but usually the snakes get confused by the change in timing between the downthrow and the forward throw and I can get another grab.
-Snake cannot move as fast as sheik, nor running powershield as well. the end
-i have a couple different setups for dacus
1. needles to dacus - works well vs snake
2. punishing spam with dacus, aka if they're trying to spam tilts or something though this is not as effective against snake unless he's just trying to throw nades at you, then you can push right after as he's pulling one - works well
3. Aerial to walk away dacus - throw a forward air to make him think you are just going to try to space him, then land and walk away for a moment, see what his response is, and if its a jump or him trying to walk towards you, dacus in the opposite direction from walking - works well
4. Dacus to the ledge - lots of people mis time they're jumps or just try to land on stage so if you knock them away and they end up off stage without you near by, you can wait for them to start jumping back towards the stage and dacus to the ledge and charge it. This only works semi-well vs snake because lots of them will just recover high when you do this.
-gimping snake can be semi easy if they don't think on their feet
what i like to do is kind of push snake to ledge in one way or another then start a rapid jab on top of him with the jabs hanging off the side of the stage, the snake will usually try to DI through sheik for a moment then di backwards and fall off. Depending on whether he actually begins to fall away or just falls straight down, he will miss the ledge and will probably have used his jumps by then trying to escape your jabs. If he falls straight down you can grab him when he trys to cipher up. His only other option would have been to DI away and then cipher up which means you can either just take the ledge when he falls back down or he will have to C4 himself.
Other than that snake specific gimp i mostly just ledge guard him like all other characters unless he goes too high for me to reach him, and thats to space back airs, run off and fast fair, or punish with neutral air when he trys to get on stage.
now its a well known fact that snake can outrange sheik. In a jab fight though i still believe it to be a at least a 50/50 match up because sheik can power sheild as she runs in on snake and from their throw out her 1 frame jabs. Snake can break a tilt lock by simply dropping a grenade after the second tilt at low percent. So what i usually do is one of 3 things.
1. 2 tilts, jab, tilt, bair
2. 2 tilts, nair
3. 2 tilts, grab, up throw or back throw to avoid grenade drop
-keeping snake in the air can be a very good thing for shiek, and also not as difficult as one might think. If you can set up grabs then thats a very simple way of doing it. Otherwise it's simply a matter of punishing as he attempts to come back down. Snake really only has 3 viable options vs sheik in this scenario, and that is to fast fall bair or nair and dropping grenades. Avoiding the fast fall bair is simply a matter of rock paper scissors in the air, if you have an up air out you will win that fight. the fast fall nair is a little more scary but again if you can get either directly below him or behind you can you can u-air or bair him. Also if you are winning that fight and can get him to air dodge you can get a free fair to or nair to either knock him off stage or kill him. If he begins to just hold a grenades I believe most of sheiks aerials don't cause it to explode unless you hit directly on the grenade itself (can't remember right now but i think this is right...)
so thus i believe the match up to be 55/45 in snakes favor, because unless I play perfectly implementing these strategies sheik dies a lot earlier than snake does unless you gimp and if you make a mistake or get out mind gamed, snake punishes with a lot of damage.
I do the grab chasing to a lot of Snakes and it works really well. Just be careful about the Bairs (which hits from the tip of his feet to his head). If you can see it coming, you can shield it and do whatever to Snake while he has all that landing lag.
The tilts to grab can set up for the grab chasing.
Shiek vs snake is a another match in which it's all about keeping snake in the air.
Shiek does have a heavy adv against snake when shes in the air, her fair is quick, has decent knockback, and sends you at a akward angle that sometimes sends snake towards the bottom kill zone which could lead to a cypher from below which can rack up dmg against snake. Her Uair has very good killing potential, a nice long hitbox, and stays out long enough to get hit if you air dodge and is still inside shieks Uair hitbox. Her bair does hit through cypher, but most snakes wont be recovering close to the stage unless we are forced too. She also has those dam needles, which, in most cases, blow up nades as we throw them or make us drop them before they even leave our hand. most kills from shiek will probably come from off stage edge guarding, and I would also like to add that she (well, most shieks) have a nack for abussssssinngggg the ftilt =). Sheiks ftilt has a lot of interesting viable combo's even after it's F-lock you can still do a F-tilt to U-tilt and rack up decent dmg, But i would not recommend abusing it to much.
That being said, snake is snake.
Snake kills shiek at a rather low percent (usually around 100 on the dot)
snakes nade game is still very viable, needles put up a fight for stopping it, but it's still a amazing move.
snakes d-throw tech chase is a problem for ANY character.
His F-tilt outrange almost all of shieks (if not all) ground game.
his bair is a good way of getting out of the air, mixing it up with some air dodges and some nairs.
Mines are viable here, because in order for a shiek to blow up a mine she would have to jump throw a needle (not bad but leaves her open) or teather which really leaves her open.
snake also has a a tendency for living verrrry long, and shiek dosn't have the best killing power in the game which gives the (Sheik life/death - Snake life/death) heavly tilited in snakes favor.
And lets not forget about snakes godsend, his Utilt, that kills at around 100% on shiek.
Grab = Snake in the Air.
Snake in the Air = Better for Sheik
don't switch to Zelda.
You can gimp Snake's recovery by grabbing the cypher. Doing this will not knock him off the cypher and not let him do an up B again. If Snake catches on in time, he can drop a C4 and hit himself with it causing damage to himself but allowing him to use his up B again. If you can predict his trajectory, you can forward/back air him and kill him.Spacing is very key to playing the Sheik vs Snake matchup. And by spacing, I mean baiting his incredible range and then using the small gap in time to rush in and punish. This is possible only because Sheik is fast. If he's not giving you those opportunities then hold back, charge/throw needles until he does.
Remember, hitting a grenade with a needle will cause it to explode, hitting Snake with a grenade will cause him to drop it, so if you can somehow time hitting Snake while holding a grenade with multiple needles, the first needle will cause him to drop the nade and the rest will detonate it right next to him. Needles are also good for killing grenades out of the air and setting off Claymores (Snake dsmash). If Snake makes the mistake of recovering low, which frankly he never should, you can try to steal his second jump with needles and force him to recover with the Cypher from under the stage, setting up for the grab gimp.
Ftilt lock is nice, but if you don't have the decay just right then Snake will have enough of a window to pull a grenade and interrupt your lock by blowing both of you up. If you're not confident in avoiding this then just end the lock early with a dsmash or nair.
Since Snake has fast and ranged attacks, you won't want to spam ftilt on his shield (you can actually use this as legit shield pressure when behind certain characters, like G&W). Instead, on a shield hit, either dsmash or go into jabs. Both of those can stuff most responses if you're quick enough about it. If he starts shielding the ftilt into dsmash/jab trap, then mix up a grab.
Snake's aerials are strong and typically out-prioritize yours, but your aerials are clearly faster. Try to bait him into an aerial and then punish the blind spots. If he spotdodges all the better, because that's when you can do empty shorthop baits into usmash (or Vanish if you're feeling silly). Getting him in the air is easy too, through utilt and pretty much all of Sheik's throws.
Snake is vulnerable off-stage and Sheik is good at edgeguarding. For this reason, any Snakes who know the matchup will double-jump Up+B recovery very early to go as high as possible, in order to avoid any edgeguards. In this case just use your usual aerial juggle pressure that I mentioned in the previous paragraph. If he's dumb and/or forced to recover low, go crazy. Bair can deal damage and knock him out of his Cypher armor, fair can force another Cypher, and Sheik has a decent grab range to do the grab gimp.
Snake's midstage neutral game is dangerous. His jabs are as fast as yours but much more damaging, his tilts are quick, and his utilt can KO you at just under 100% when undecayed. His grab game is scary too if you're not used to it, since the dthrow deals 12% and gives an instant wakeup punish setup for him. You typically want to stay out of his range until he whiffs something, and even then you have to move in fast since his tilts and jabs have moderately low cooldown. Sheik has a little trick of crouching under Snake's jabs and being able to dtilt past the range of his grab. Use this to your advantage until he picks up on the gimmick.
Oh yeah, if you shield ftilt, then shieldgrab after the first hit, but ROLL AWAY if you shielded both hits, because you won't be in range for anything if you shielded both. Trying to punish after the second gets you jab combo'd.
Counter Pick: Final Destination because needle pressuring is much easier and there are no platforms to put mines/C4s on. Jungle Japes is good too because:
Ban: Battle Field because Snake can put C4s on the platforms to discourage Sheik from going near them. Snake can also put mines on platforms to prevent Sheik from using the platforms to Sheik's full potential. Furthermore, Snake can up tilt you while you are on the side platforms. Also, Rainbow Cruise because:The ceiling is higher (lesser chance of utilt kills). Also, is harder to recover cause he can't bomb jump to recover when he gets grabbed out of his cypher. He won't do a low recovery so you can always prepare for a high one.
Character # 3:Trust me, RC has been my CP AS Snake for quite a while now. I could understand how someone inexperienced can get screwed over by the stage but it certainly works in Snakes favor as well. The close sides and rather low ceilings (compared to most stages) are beneficial to Snake because of his high killing power. I would avoid this stage if the Snake player knows his CPs. If I played against a Sheik main, I would CP RC because you cannot tether most of the ledges on this stage.
"[Surrounded by potato chip bags] Y'know, there's jus' sumthin' about sittin' in
front o' the TV all day long that gives me the nibblies! " (King Dedede from "Hoshi no Kirby")
Ratio: 45/55 Dedede
The Dedede boards already discussed the match up here.
DeDeDe can shieldgrab any of Sheik's usual pressure and don't be misled into thinking DeDeDe doesn't have good grab options still just because he doesn't have the CG. D Throw techchase rapes and 16% from a B Throw is always an easy option. And isn't being careful with your spacing a given?
Needle camping is pretty applicable, considering DeDeDe's horrible ground and air speed, though one Waddle Dee limits or even stops it if it's between you and DeDeDe (make sure in any spare moment to knock off a Waddle if you feel it'll restrict you).
Chain is very effective in situations where he can't put out a Waddle, his huge size means SDIing out is a pain, as is manouevering around it.
F Tilt isn't that much of a problem, power shield it and continue on.
Recovering Dedede's need to be punished hard. Harass him until he has to Up B and then punish accordingly when the super armour's gone.
Sheik is able to duck under D3's Bair, which is one of his main approaches. You can needle camp him until he throws out a waddle something or gordo. If he throws out a waddle and D3 is far enough away, you can hit the waddle to replenish your moves. Be wary when chasing D3 off the side of the stage (especially if he has more stock or percent than you do) because he can swallowside. When D3 is recovering, try to be unpredictable in your gimp game until he has to use his up B. Once he does, try and predict whether he will land on the stage or cancel the jump and grab the ledge, and punish accordingly. Also, be careful when recovering back onto the stage because one or two Bairs are enough to kill Sheik. You really have to play with a few, or no, mistakes in this match-up because if you do mess up D3 can put a hurting on Sheik.
Just pick zelda for this one.
If you insist on playing sheik just try and be annoying, dash in and out, ftilt with a jab/grab/nair/dsmash mixup game, space outside ftilt range and powershield waddles...be careful of bair spacing because if he has a waddle directly in front then it's ineffective b/c at any space between him and the waddle is room to ftilt, grab, waddle again...dedede's spotdodge is ********, his airdodge is too. just try and keep him juggled a lot, sheik will have a more difficult time w/ this but in general bair and uair mixing up - the bair to cut through air dodges.
Basically... it's kinda ilke the snake matchup...
You have to space perfectly and do stuff that DDD can't punish... and there's not a lot of options for that.
Okay, so what's DDD's basic stuff?
- waddle dee
- shield grab, bthrow/fthrow, (dthrow if he's feeling lucky to tech chase)
- utilt OMG WATCH OUT FOR UTILT
- dsmash for rolls, this move is better than u might think
Basically, all his options are crazy strong but slow enough for sheik to get around everything he does.
- Ftilt combo him like crazy, since he doesn't have any options fast enough to escape it even if you DONT do it perfectly. even if he jumps and air dodges, he doesnt have any aerial options fast enough to escape your punishment. even if he jumps and dairs, you can just wait and then uair/bair him
- needle camp his ***. what can he do besides throw waddle dees? ftilt or jab the waddle dees to DECAY YOUR FTILT (which is helpful of course) and also REFRESH YOUR KO MOVES
- zelda is good at this matchup so yeah, switch to her for kills. if you stay sheik and you have decayed attacks he will live to like 200 every stock LOL
- this matchup is in sheik/zelda's favor IMO, you just have to play it really well because it's DDD's super strong punishment that makes it a challenge. simple mistakes like getting shield grabbed to bthrow gets you that much closer to death. shild grab, 2 grab attacks, bthrow... thats over 20+ lol, a few more bthrows and you are in KO range for him
- champ grab combo - dthrow utilt (cuz if he air dodges, you can just grab again)
- improvise lol. lots of good spacing tools for this matchup and i can't go over all of them, just play against DDD a lot and you got this. if you are fast enough and can read shields well so you can grab him, this matchup gets easier and easier since DDD's options are so limited
- if he starts bair camping, just charge needles since his bairs will outprioritize everything sheik has
- DACUS if you are crazy/good enough
You really need to stay away from DDD especially when he's trying to feel you out by spacing his ftilts and dtilts. Nothing wrong with running away and charging needles for this matchup.
And once again I highly recommend using Zelda at high percents. Zelda overall is very effective at any percent, too.
King Dedede can not chain grab neither Zelda nor Sheik. So don't worry about that, but do not get careless and get grabbed because his back throw does 16% and his forward throw does 13%.I recommend aggro'ng him from behind. Approaching him with an auto-cross up bair is really good, can't get grabbed even if he shields it. From here apply your normal pressure. Though he can start catching on and pivot grab the approach.
Ftilt isn't really safe when used in front of him. A fully spaced ftilt only just BARELY outranges his grab. However, this will still naturally be one of your best damage rackers in the match. Decayed ftilt > Up smash kills somewhere around 110-120 i believe, though I don't know the exact percentages. If this combo becomes not an option then just go with Zelda, she does well here.
Edge guarding.. You can definitely take advantage here. Sheik is fast enough to cover all of his options. If he looks like he is going to go for the ledge then bring out the chain or just grab it and force him to use his up b.
Be really careful when you're off stage, he can gimp you pretty easily if you make a mistake.
Grabbing is very useful since he sits in his shield.
Counter Pick: Yoshi's Island because
Ban: Any stage that you can jump through from underneath. These stages include Halberd, and Delfino. Dedede can jump under the stage and hit you with his up air, then jump back the the ledge and do it again.It keeps him on the ground pretty well cuz he better not want to be on that platform. Zone him from underneath the platform with needles, aerials, and chain lock if you get him desperate.
Character # 4:
Mr. Game and Watch (GaW)
" *Beep* *beep* *beep* " (Mr. Game and Watch)
Ratio: 45/55 GaW
- The only thing G&W has that can go through the chain is bacon, which is slow enough for you to have time to withdraw and shield. So use it on the ledge or just in a spaced proximity so he doesn't have chance to use it.
- Big surprise, needles ****. G&W cant bucket them and he has no comparable projectile to match it, so use 'em. G&W has pretty decent mobility however, so dont expect to be able to effectively camp him, it's just good for that extra percent when he cant do anything about it. If you're approaching unless persuing a positional advantage, you're doing it wrong.
- Not that I ever would use her, but Zelda isn't recommended for this match. G&W can keep her out and abuse her lack of punishment just outside her range like no other.
- Close range requires little variation, we're talking the usual jab and F Tilt mixups, F Tilt and U Tilt both finding an even higher then usual prominence for their anti-aerial capabilities.
- G&W's aerial game is ridiculous, but it's not unstoppable. F Air has good knockback and they may want to keep it fresh for offstage kills, but it's laggy upon landing so if you're staying primarily grounded (which you should be) then it's not a threat. Chok once said that you can jab out between the 5th and 6th hit of B Air, so be manly and do that if caught in it, but really you should be running away to turnaround needles to stop his B Air spacing and not getting hit in the first place.
When getting U Air juggled, SDI down and to a side closest to offstage with airdodge to get out of the draft, at close range it's nothing special. N Air is sick, great reach, damage and priority so DI accordingly to avoid getting chained and just stay the hell away from him in the air. The times you should meet G&W are offstage (though if he Up B's appropriately then good luck with the gimp) and as a quick SHFF interception (F Air/N Air preferrably) as Sheik has the speed to pull this off.If you're hit at the beginning (which admittedly is the more likely option) then SDI upwards to aerial is the best choice.
- Thanks to bucket braking (a very effective momentum cancel) and a good recovery, off the side KO's are by far the slower. G&W weighs about as much as a photograph of himself, so U Smash kills very early. To get it, stage CP's where Sheik can get easy tippers through platforms are a must and of course keep the F Tilt appropriately decayed for the U Smash (though this almost seems unnecesary to add now, you should be doing this against everyone).
- Edgeguarding is a pain, though as I've already mentioned, the chain is **** because of G&W having no real answer to it. G&W can cover a large distance quickly with invincibility frames on the beginning of the rise, so smart Up Bing usually makes off the edge gimping highly impractical, though there is something to be said for the tether hog to spaced B Air.
GaW can down throw > single jab > grab if you DI in front of him, so watch out for that. You can decide which side you appear on after being dthrown by DIing that way. You can also tech the dthrow if you get the timing down. GaW will be jumping a lot in this match, especially since you can pressure with needles. Since he will be jumping all the time, throw out a DACUS or two to get an early kill off of the top.
You should pretty much always tech the dthrow.
Counter Pick:Tactics I find effect for this match up:
Running Power Shield
Release on Dacus on certain stages
Needles are useful but not as much as people might think because the second any good g&w strts getting punished at the end of his aerials he will just start using upB to cancel out of them. Use them only if he starts getting predictable.
Another good time to use needles is right when g&w tries to get on stage, because alot of them will try to ledge drop and then land on stage, so the second he tries to jump back on just pelt him with however many needles you have available till he does something new. People can eat quite a bit of damage like this and also sometimes open themselves up for a free punish if you take the ledge at the right moment.
Most smart g&w's will be mostly using aerials since that's where he has some of the longest range, most control, least lag on his moves. So the second he jumps in the air, shield dash towards him and try to get in close to him, just watch out for his aerial cancels, slow fall dair, upB.
If you get really good at this most of the time I just go for the grab or jab to grab because then you can get a second opportunity if they mess up
Once you get in close there are many options available to sheik, if he tries to jab you, you can just spam your own jab and break out of his giving yourself an opportunity for a grab/tilt/rapid jabs if he's near the ledge
I don't actually recommend rapid jabbing g&w unless he's near the ledge because he can smash DI and punish with fair.
I'll do a lot of the same tilt to aerial combos that I recommended for snake such a few of them being,
Decayed f-tilt to bair
2 f-tilt nair
2 f-tilt jab back throw bair/nair
on the edge guarding, do the needle camp like i specified up above, also if you can get g&w to recover low, be ready to grab the ledge to force him to land on stage, if they mess up, or even sometimes if they don't, you can get a free hit the second they get back on coming out of their upB.
A lot of the same ledge guard rules apply again, use aerial spacing to protect high, and punish as they try to get on, sometimes if your feeling brave go for that offstage aerial kill.
One thing to watch out for in the match up is chasing g&w high in the air which is why I generally recommend staying on the ground. However it is possible to bait a dair from g&w while in the air against him giving sheik a free fair/bair/uair.
Lylat. He seems to have trouble with the ledges there because of the stage teetering and such. He can stuck under it, or miss the ledge for an easy grab release kill. Plus there's platforms for Usmash kills. I play an experienced G&W regularly, and he almost always has trouble at Lylat.
Ban: Battle field because GaW's aerial game is too good. He can really utilize the platforms by harassing people from underneath or by a dthrow tech chase on them. Rainbow Cruise is also a bad stage to go to in this match-up.FD for the obvious use of setting up needles/powershield to grab games.
Halberd for the release to dacus
Pirate ship for the release to dacus/water to help with recovery, weird platforms and stage effects.
Castle siege for the small sides and also release to dacus on the first part of the stage.
Character # 5:
"Hold still and lemme shoot you" (Falco Lombardi)
Ratio: 51/49 Sheik
You have to space his bairs, cause some falcos spam this alot, and if your not careful he can pressure your shield and use it to punish you, but you can punish it with grab or shield out of nairs., if your shield is large enough. also your space then punish with nairs to be safer.
falco, he will spam lazers at you, so basically you do is crawl. If he tries to jab spam you you either di away if you dont want to get hit or QCDI if you want to punish. You can do the ftilt, combos. or ftilt decay to usmash on him too . If he uses utilt just di away and punish with a bair or fair. make sure don't spam needles. he has his reflector, just do a dash mindgame (left dash cancel right dash cancel, to what ever (fairs,ftilts,needles, bairs) and don't spot dodge alot... he will read this and use it to his advantage to pivot grabs and such. and every time hes off the edge, dont go and try to tech chase him. you have needles, just gimp him with those and if hes to low recover with side b then gimp with the needles if he starting up his upb if hes not, and your close enough you should be able to get a bair in there but safest thing to do is gimp with the needles.
Falco actually has a problem with killing relative to his tier position. The spike at the edge can also be SDI'd into the stage and teched.
The matchup is pretty even.
1. Survive the cg
2. ftilt his ***
3. edge guard him well (stand in the middle of the stage if he is definitely gonna make it back.. to punish phantasm incase he wants to land on the stage)
4. if he is forced to use up-B, MAKE SURE HE DIES
5. dont needle too much cuz if he reflects them u take like 20 damage
6. watch out for his priority wing slashes: nair, jabs, fsmash... too good
7. besides lasers and the weird attacks, all of sheiks options are faster and less laggy. falco just has better stage control
bottom line: just get him off the stage.
You can punish his side B onto stage with a dacus OoS.
Also, Ftilt = win.
as soon as falco is offstage if you're feeling lazy:
1. if he doesn't have a jump and he starts to dip below the lip of the stage, hang the chain, instarape
2. if he has a jump and he decides to try and jump phantasm for the ledge (ie you notice him dipping down), hang the chain over the ledge, instarape
3. if he tries to phantasm on stage just reverse needle him after you powershield it
Falco's back air can gimp you if you're not careful.
Falco has to get near his opponents to really rack up damage, so space him with back airs.
Needles hit Falco out of his side B. Needling him while he tries to do side B to recover can cause him to fall low enough so he has to use his up B, which basically means Falco dies.
First off, Falco lives by the CG and laser. Lasers to set up pretty much anything and are pulled out to close some distance. A good falco will not try trypically run up and try to get the grab. Best methods of that are shieldgrabbing and jab > grab. They will certainly look for any chance during the percent range, but they shouldn't try force it. It's more of an early punishing method.
Phantasm is also another possible means of damage racking. Typically, it will be used for recovery, getting back on stage (really abused here) and getting out of tight corners.
Reflector is really only used occasionally outside of reflecting because we know if it gets powershielded we get punished.
After that you deal with a lot of approaches falco has namely the lasers for one. But SH dairs and SH nairs are other methods of approach. In close counters jab, ftilt and grabs are really abused. And I'm pretty sure ftilt and jab out ranges shiek's ftilt and jab.
Shiek overall can combo/edgeguard falco really well. But both have problems killing. I would almost think that shiek has the slightly harder time KOing because of slightly higher percents needed to do so compared to Falco.
Falco chain grab into dair does not kill Sheik. It's very easy to jump and then up B back onto the stage or go for the ledge after a falco has spiked you. There's really no need to tech besides wanting to punish Falco immediately
No it doesn't kill by itself, and recovery is possible, but so is a footstool. At that postion you are in the perfect place for falco to attempt a footstool. Now, I have not seen many Falco's do that, but the possibility is there. Plus, teching was always better as it prevents that situation of having to UpB back onto the stage or ledge. You go for the ledge all it takes is an edgehog to finish the stock off. If you get back on stage it goes back into an edgeguard and juggling situation.
Counter Pick:lasers>sheik =(: Lasers are pretty much falco's bread and butter (deep in my subconscious that pun was intended). I don't really think there's any reliable way for sheik to truly deal with what is the best projectile in the game, plus silent lasers lead into pretty much everything, including kills. They give falco control of the stage and they're better than needles.
shiek CAN crawl under the lasers unless he was offstage and if u get hit with an offstage laser while your onstage your an idiot...
both are good damage rackers and have trouble killing(obviously) but i believe shiek has the edge in killing cuz all falco really has is Bair up and forward smash
fsmash is slow and probably his least reliable way of killing
if your at 100% be wary for laser to boost smashes thats the staple of falco gameplay for getting the kill.
on the otherside falco is incredibly easy to gimp if you have at least half charged needles but maximum is recommended.
most falcos will phantasm onto the stage rather than phantasm into the ledge,take advantage of this by throwing out needles when falco is parallel to the stage or slightly above it. this takes away the option of phantasming onto the stage which leaves him the option of firebirding and firebirding only which you can then choose the gimping move of your choice or simply grab the ledge.add in the tilt lock to uptilt to fair and thats 60% plus the opportunity to gimp on every new stock
Ban:There are a lot of Counterpicks against falco that can mess him up and not. Any stage that isn't flat or has a lot of small areas really mess up falco (norfair, brinstar, lylat cruise, etc.). Green Greens I could see as a CP just for the sides and ceiling make it is easier to kill falco with. I personally think that lylat messes falco up the most.
Pretty much any stage that is relatively flat and large gives falco a good time (JJ, BF, FD, SV, PS1, etc.). As always Ban JJ against falco when the stage is allowed and when it's not available ban FD.
Character # 6:
R.O.B. / ROB
Ratio: 60/40 R.O.B.
We have NO reliable way of killing rob...
Gyro and laser stops dacus
His up b lasts forever so he can easily position himself to not get naired
His dsmash is fast than ours....umm we can combo him decently.
ROB is telegraphed as **** in the air. He's got a blind spot the size of the moon underneath him thanks to his slow starting and punishable cooldown D Air and equally slow starting N Air. Sheik's U Air therefore manages to carve a niche in this matchup. F Tilt ender, aerial intercept or even a pseudo juggle trap. U Tilt also becomes more applicable because of this.
As far as killing, ROB actually has trouble. Primary kill moves will be F Smash (mediocre in every sense), N Air (telegraphed, slow startup and cooldown), B Air (less punishable due to it's propelling attribute) but is compensated by easier to see coming e.g. he'll have his back to you lol. D Smash is SDIable and it'll be as decayed as a two month old apple considering how ROB's spam it as a close range option. Your killing is pretty typical, big surprise but F Tilt to U Smash is your best option. That's especially important in this matchup because otherwise ROB can live a LONG time, heavy weight with a very good recovery.
Think of ROB close up of having two zones. There's the space just outside him where his F Tilt and D Tilt can space and you have trouble getting inside. But just past that range is where Sheik wants to be, where you can overwhelm ROB with your attack speed and he finds himself much more limited to the stereotypical spotdodge D Smash spam. D Smash can be shielded and punished and if you do hit it's, as I've said, SDIable (you should also learn to consistently SDI ROB's U Air). Soon as you get that F Tilt, he's in the air up close and there's **** all he can do about it.
ROB can outcamp you so you have to approach, but don't think of needles as simply a camping tool. They're still used for that easy 18%. As far as ROB's camping is concerned, running shield, SHAD, Brawl sheild mechanics rule. Laser's a constant annoyance but with good reactions it's impact is significantly lessened. Deal with Gyro the same. When ROB has the gyro, whilst it grants him a great glide toss and a good projectile, bear in mind whilst holding it that's all he has.
ROB's edgeguarding is great thanks to his B Up, F Air and B Air. Your primary aim is to stay off the edge completely, but in the event you do, DI high and get back on with minimalised risk. When knocked off with low knockback, chain near immediately before he's protecting the edge. Vanish is your last resort for recovery, it'll get punished hard. When ROB's recovering with Up B, he can't airdodge so single F/B/ N Air's to back to edge/stage and rinse repeat mean it's possible to build some effective damage, but it's doubtful you'll get the gimp.
a smart rob will up b top of screen and then come down to prevent the airdodge situation
Watch out for his down and up throw. It can only kill at a really high percent (180% ish), but it's good to know that ROB can kill with this during a match. Sheik can rack up damage easily on ROB but has a hard time killing him. So when ROB gets to about 110%, switch to Zelda for an easy up smash kill.
Counter Pick: Battle field because Sheik can really utilize the platforms in this match-up. ROB is really bad when someone is under him in the air, and platforms does not make this any better for him.While you are off the ledge, watch out for ROB's lasers and gyro. They can kill you or gimp you if you are not careful. You are going to have to play kind of defensive in this match because you don't want to run into ROB's nair and bair. Attack when the opportunity presents itself.
Ban: Jungle Japes because he can really camp on this stage. Also, any other flat stages without platforms since he can also camp on these.
Character # 7:
"Boku wa makeru wake-ni wa ikanainda!" (Marth)
Translated: "There's no way I can lose."
Ratio: 60/40 Marth
Stay away from his tipper range as best as you can. Once you get inside of it, overwhelm Marth with your speed, but watch out for grabs. Sheik is also really good at gimping Marth . Don't use the chain in this match-up because Marth can up B out of it. Marth can also up B out of Sheik's ftilt lock. If you can predict his up B, you can shield it and punish.
He can do a double fthrow to tip fsmash or double fthrow to spike
Needling Marth isn't exactly effective, don't rely on charging your needles and stuff while Marth is still on stage it's not worth it. You're going to win this match through speed, aggression, and evasion.
Problem is, very few Marth's actually understand this match. If you fight a defensive one who runs away (the more likely scenario) you will have a much easier time. Any kind of camping is easy to get by with Sheik's dart approaches or needles. Aggressive ones are going to try and keep you out with a lot of dtilt pressure and single fairs. If you powershield any of these make sure you punish him. If you're being zoned hard don't be afraid to take one fox trot backwards to reset the situation. You have to evade his sword at all costs.
Being able to decay the ftilt to line up an ftilt up smash combo at around 80-100 probably won't be all that likely. Landing an ftilt is a lot harder in this match so your bread and butter kill option is gone for the most part. Zelda also has it worse than Sheik imo, she can be zoned much easier so I don't recommend switching to her. So as you can see, killing will be a hard task in this match. If you ever get him off stage make sure you can make your best effort to get out there and gimp him. Also, if you are able to predict when Marth is going to go for short hop fair you can do a running up smash and land a tipper.
Chain isn't as effective as most matches. Marth can really just jump in with a counter. I don't think his up b is as effective as that.
What you want to do is make Marth scared of you. Your evasion combined with aggression can sometimes be way too much for him to handle. You have to learn to attack where his sword isn't and find openings.
-Any time sheik gets a jab, all marth has to do is upB
-any time sheik gets a tilt, all marth has to do is upB
though you can bait this and punish sometimes, its hard though
-unless sheik is doing retreating aerials, all of marths aerials out space hers, unless the marth is really bad at spacing it will be really hard to get inside to hit him with aerials while both on stage if he is spacing attacks as well.
-If marth gets sheik off stage, all he has to do is create walls right near the ledge and there is very little sheik can do to get past it with her limited recovery options
-Grabs can work ok on marth if you can get in close, which is very difficult
My tactics against marth:
I use a couple of different approaches depending on what the marth is doing.
If the marth is attempting to space aerials I try to get inside through dash to powershielding, which only works moderately well because if the marth is doing retreating aerials its nearly impossible to punish with sheik unless he makes a mistake. Also if he is spacing aerials I sometimes approach by dashing to b-reverse needle cancel bair which will outspace marth's fair when he throws it out letting you hit with your bair.
Once your able to get inside go for a grab because like I said if the marth is smart if you try to do a jab or tilt combo on him he will just upB out of it before you can do anything.
Once you grab marth just go for any of the normal stuff, follow beneath to sheild grab, or try to space an upTilt on them, go for the second hit not the first. Hit them with an aerials out of the throw if you think they arn't paying attention, but whatever happens don't let them get back down or get below you unless they have to go off stage which is ok.
If the marth is playing a ground game, try to space aerials if you don't believe they will upB, or try to air dodge through them to a grab.
Once I get a marth off stage I will go for the fair or bair gimp if i think they arn't paying attention, but the best bet is to try to hit them with angled needles to turn them around then go for a fair. Otherwise just stay on stage and try to punish them when they stand up.
Oh yeah and also use needles to punish as you knock marth away, but don't try to spam them, make him approach you if possible and try to get him if he messes up.
Counter Pick=Ban:As with almost any Marth matchup, the key is spacing. Always be cautious of where you are in comparison of Marth's sword and once you get inside, make sure you overwhelm with your speed, Double Jab to Grab, general tiltage etc, these are all god sends. Marth won't kill for a long time without a tipper, though probably still earlier then you. HOWEVER, Marth has a very gimpable recovery (especially for Shiek, she was designed to gimp Marth lol), standard F Air and B Air offstage are both great for pushing him out of DS linear recovery line. Tether edgehog is also fantastic (time the invincibility frames). F Tilt to U Smash as always kills very well but fully decaying F Tilt against Marth is difficult, gimping should still be your primary way of killing.
Shiek can only combo with F Tilt when fully decayed, otherwise the Marth will Dolphin Slash out (it's invincible frame 1-4 and hits frame 5), so finish your lock quickly, after two F Tilts usually with D Smash, N Air or U Tilt (Marth can actually DS out of the second hit of U Tilt but I very much doubt they are that frame perfect or react quickly enough). You can also test your opponent's DS patterns and then bait the DS for a free anything.
Abuse the **** out of needles. Marth doesn't have a projectile, you do. This normally isn't much of a problem for Marth thanks to his great manouverability and ability to cancel many projectiles with his sword, however he can use neither effectively in this matchup. Needles don't get cancelled by sword and Shiek has the pace to run away. Needle's also aren't exactly easy to see coming and shield, making them the perfect tool to mess up Marth's spaced tilt's and F Air walls and generally whenever he's far enough away that he can't reach you.
For your specific move problems:
Dash Attack: Shield it, Marth has to commit and it has punishable ending lag.
F Smash: It's range isn't anything special anymore, be very conscious of if you're in tipper position at kill percentages, otherwise it's punishable on shield and it can't kill for **** without the tipper.
D Throw to F Smash: DI appropriately and Airdodge, it's not a guaranteed follow up.
F Air: This move is always going to be a problem, it's a brilliant spacing aerial. However, I find Shiek's Dash Attack very useful against double jump F Air, intercepting between the two. Dashing Shield can also be great to mess up spacing. Needles should always be your primary response however, running away to needles deal very effectively with Marth's F Air spacing.
Marth still has an advantage in this matchup (60:40 IMO) due to his general ability to space with his range, however he isn't as effective at shutting down Shiek as with many characters due to her speed, it's a very winnable matchup.
Sheik and Marth both do well and poorly on most (if not all) of the same stages.
Character # 8:
“So admit it..... Don't I look cool in the game screens? Those long, muscular legs on my sturdy toned frame.... I'm the perfect specimen of a man..... What!?!? You say I look fat and my quadruple chin looks like a waterfall of flab? Shut up! That's just because you have your television set up on widescreen display!”
—Wario, Wario World
Ratio: 55/45 Wario
Sheik can grab release into an up smash on Wario.
i disagree that he is easy to grab, but if u can, more power to you, because GR kills at like 100 or something, too good
needle when he touches the ground, but the true air campy non-approaching warios are hard to needle even when they hit the ground, they sidestep and shield and stuff
i think when he is jumping around a lot, you should also jump around a lot too, because sheik's vertical speed is fast and can actually catch wario off guard if he is above you and you immediately full hop bair or uair unexpectedly
that's one of the only ways to hit him IMO
other than that, get most of your damage with needles and kill with random uairs or GR->usmash
those are the main tools, it's just harder to grab him than you think
(unless the wario approaches too much, then it's smooth sailing)
grab release ftilt is great, so are grab release nair and grab release fair
that's only if you wanna save ur usmash knockback cuz ur usmash does the most damage
you can go grab release ftilt nair, damage is great as well
lol better yet
grab release ftilt usmash
anyway........ getting grabs is hard in the first place so dont rely on grab releases. im just saying the options once u get the opportunity
Sheik can gimp the Wario if he's reckless and bikes too close to the stage, and/or not very low or high. She has to use fairs though (or needles that hit Wario), b/c if you bair he can DI them up in which case he'll just get closer to the stage and/or eventually get his bike back. It's not common, but it's possible.
Wario can gimp Sheik surprisingly easily as well, and if she makes it to the edge, it's very easy to just prevent her from getting on the ground again. Needles will hit once in a while, but are really less effective than you guys make them out to be..
charge your needles, when spacing, because hes going to try to bite you and miss. so you have a free 18% ftilt to usmash kills at about 95%. just grab release if you want to or ftilt to usmash.. i rather grab release ftilt decayed into fairs, space with needles . and always use utilt, this rapes warios air game. then when time is right, bait them into a grab then release. or bait into a dacus. or fsmash edge, or dsmash edge. needles offstage rapes warios recovery. tether canceling too. watch out for his farts, bait him into a fart and punish with uair like so. power shield his fsmash so you can get your grab release to usmash. if he uses fsmash.. and misses, prepare for another fsmash. or just foxtrot the other direction into needles. also sidestepping wouldnt be the best solution to his fsmashes. because you might get caught off guard on his 2nd fsmash.
Don't go to BF, you will have a hell of a hard time getting back on stage there. FD or anywhere large and flat are good for you guys, harder for us to get a free pass out of grabs, easier for you to stay on stage, which is what you want. Castle Siege is pretty good for this reason too.
it is hard to damage wario, you kinda just have to read his movement and wait till he gets close, then hit with any aerial except dair
wario is usually jumping all over the place, so full hopping a lot with sheik is actually helpful (just don't risk wasting ur second jump then getting hit)
think of it this way: wario is flying around, but obviously he has to go near you to hit you. just charge needles and jump around until you are near him, and whoever makes the more effective attack wins
jab cancels into other attacks work well against wario. like jab fakes. into fairs or something with spacing of course. dtilt might help you too. uair might help if hes caught off guard.
just play gay as they do. and annoy them with 1 needle or 2 needle attacks
Counter Pick::Ur best bet is to stay at a mid range and stay just out of his range and punish baited attacks also be aware of warios Bair and its deceptive range. If he goes for his Dair shenanigans just stay out of range and punish but dont do any shield camping because wario eats shields for breakfast............ cloves and cloves of shields.
Ban:FD or anywhere large and flat are good for you guys, harder for us to get a free pass out of grabs, easier for you to stay on stage, which is what you want. Castle Siege is pretty good for this reason too.
Character # 9:Don't go to BF, you will have a hell of a hard time getting back on stage there.
"My taste in music is highly refined. But my wife and kids have no taste at all! For example, when I ask my family if they want to go out for karaoke, they twist their faces and give me a nasty look! They don't know what they're missing..." - Olimar, Pikmin 2
Ratio: 65/35 Olimar
You can edge guard Olimar easily by using the chain to grab the ledge, and time your invinsibility frames when Olimar does his up B.
Yeah pivot grab, pikmin throw, **** aerials like fair, dair, uair will beat so much of sheiks stuff as far as priority. So if you use those defensively it can get hard for sheik to approach.
Olimar is a match up that I do not know how to play against... For the first half of year the short hop into nair approach worked great but now I'm fighting olimars whom know how to pivot grab which if they have room to rapes that.
Needles do work but aren't that effective, although doing a full hop into needle storm I can see having it's uses but I've yet to test it.
Chain is sadly very useless as for some reason it doesn't stop olimar grab and worst yet blue pikman can grab sheik out of her chain camp. It should also be know that because of his down B it's also possible for Olimar to make the chain harder to use if he's falling upon you.
Olimar also has this wicked low % combo starting from the dthrow into fair... which if you don't act properly can lead to a usmash or even another grab. It's a very harsh frame trap for at least me.
Ftilt into usmash is fairly hard to do as well since you don't get the chance to land the ftilt often.
Being defensive may work but Olimar can pump out the spam a lot faster then sheiks so I think maybe a ice climber like appouch is needed as such I currently see the match up is as roughly as hard as ice climbers
your main advantage in this matchup is your ability to beat us a point blank with your high priority attacks, my advice for doing that is your needles,
they are vital in this matchup to create openings because we either have to somehow avoid/block needles gives you an opening to approach or take the hit giving you an opening anyway, using that opening you will need to somehow get next to us, either by dashing, shorthop, w/e,
at that range your gonna want to grab/ftilt at low percents and try to chain us off stage and predict how we will get on as to counter us and keep us off, at high percents from there your best option is a mix of jabs, grabs, and dsmashes(and only dsmash) with the same goal in mind, jabbing should only be used for when we are close to edge because no matter how we di we will be in a bad spot,
your best options for edge guarding are aerial needles or nairing us below stage then grabbing edge, we can't super armor 3+ needles and if you nair while falling then nair while jumping super armor gives you time to get on edge and edge hog us or we get hit and lose the stock
now, if you approach without needles i can only wish you luck that the oli has no experience, you want to pay a full mixup game and lure out our attacks so you can take advantage of our minimal lag time with your speed,
at close range our tilts are fast so if you don't attack fast enough a smart oli with tilt you and push you back putting you in position you were in before, so don't use attacks with startup lag if possible
now, what experienced olis will do: pivot grab and camp at mid range, use tilts/jab at point blank, use upsmash/up-b/ pivot to counter air approaches, out space you with a wall of fsmashes, di out of ftilt lock(don't try to chain to upsmash as its to easy for oli to avoid) not sheild grab or spotdodge, super armor when aerials, edge hog you
what un experieneced olis will do: shield grab , use smashes always and never tilts, shorthop nair your air approaches(your nair/fair/bair will trade hits with our nair but give more vertical knockback) spotdoge, roll a lot, pivot grab only ground approaches, use dsmash/ upsmash alot, try to nair->ground canceled smash you, fight you in the air, throw multiple pikmin when short hopping
notes: oli can grab combo your for an easy 60% if played right at low %s, you can and can't beat our fsmash at certain times depending on pikmin, you upsmash+dsmash can get rid of all pikmin, you have to play offensive offstage, ftilt->upsmash rarely if ever works
synopsis: oli can camp sheik with our grabs, pikmin, and fsmashes but sheik's needles will be key factor in giving her openings, she will have to play point blank pressure and most times chase oli in the air where she beats him, olimar has enough lag for sheik to come in and attack if oli screws up almost any attack, dash attack will be a great hit and run move for sheik.
Port Aero Town is the only one I can think of at the moment. Anything without ledges obviously. Maybe Rainbow Cruise?
On any other stage, just Fair **** him off the side. Oli off stage = auto gimp.
If he camps with thrown Pikmin, spinning the chain prevents the Pikmin from hitting you - if he starts getting close don't let him grab with a blue one though. The only other time you will want to use the chain is to ledgeguard, which you will HAVE to do in order to win this match.
If he gets you in the air, you are going to have problems because Oli can juggle well. If he is juggling you well, it isn't a bad idea to use a dair to throw off his timing, but make sure that you will either connect with it, or that you will be far enough away not to be grabbed when he approaches.
Most Olis also depend on tech chasing, and when you have the advantage, sheild camping. Do your best to disrupt his flow with needles. Another good way to throw him off when you know he will approach is to use vanish offensively, but do so away from him. Don't do this too much or he will learn to punish with a grab after.
When on the ground in close proximity, Jab and try to get as much % as you can, but if you start to lose him make sure you get out before you get punished with a side smash. I find that ftilt is hard to land if the other Oli jabs or grabs frequently (which most do). If you do manage to land it, keep it going as long as you can and end it with a dsmash, it usually connects and will get him off of you for some possible needle damage or edge guarding.
If the Oli is in the air, use your speed to control the stage and keep him there the best you can.
Oli beats Sheik on the ground, and on neutral stages it's really tough to get him off of it. Approaching at an angle with bairs and weak nairs->grabs is probably your best bet when you aren't fending him off with needles.
Counter Pick: A stage that has no ledges, like Port town, or one that constantly changes, like Rainbow Cruise.pivot grab rapeesssss Sheik.
Ban: Final destination. No platforms make it very hard to approach Olimar.
Character # 10:
“Watch the power of Aura!”
—Lucario, Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Ratio: 60/40 Lucario
Lucario's pros over Sheik:
He out range's you left and right. A good Lucario will space like a B*tch and get you with f-tilts, FSmash, u-tilts and Aura Sphere.
He is hard to approach.
He CANNOT be f-tilt locked very far. I suggest the Swan Combo as a replacer.
He is floaty and thus hard to combo altogether.
He has that f*cking CG (becaue Sheik has a high falling speed she can be CG'd yo high percents.)
He has a very good roll dodge. Keep that in mind.
Because Sheik usally kills at high percents and that Lucario gets more powerful at high percents makes this match VERY tough for the Sheik.
Sheik's pros over Lucario:
NEEDLES! Again this is very important. The reason being is that it stops him from charging Aura Sphere. The only time he should be able to charge it is when you just died or when you are recovering.
Ledge Hogging is also important, Since Lucario does NOT have a hit box when he use's Up B that means that you are 100% safe on the ledge as long as he can't get you with Fair or something. Take advantage of this weakness and make him over shoot and punish him.
If he is follish enough to use DT then punish him.
You out speed him.
Luckily f-tilt decay> USmash works on him (as everyone else). Just try and get in that decay.
Punish any attempts to grab and try not to let him get a jab on you.
Sheik can recover from below which does not allow Lucario to do that little Fai> Fair> Fair thing.
Just remeber that he out ranges you and kill him a low percents if you can.
i like to approach lucario with needles then run in with a ftilt or AAA combo when he is stunned. never tried to get uair unless at a angle. nevel directly below him he will dair spam the hell out of ya. dont stale your attacks. i can't stree this enough. dont decay your smashes. i would suggest AAA combo and needles to get them high up there. they are easy to gimp to. just ftilt to fairs and AAA combo to reset decay then fair him off the stage. then gimp with needles or bair... which one you think would better work in the situation. when your off the stage and hes on the stage. he will go for a dair regardless. so try to tether as soon as possible . or vanish and try not to get punished.i would recover low on the stage. because if you time the vanish just right . you can punish he dair. but its veryyyy risky. and ftilt to usmash. but don't focus the whole match on ftilt to usmash. when you know you can get that ftilt to usmash just casually. do it if you look obvious your going to get outplayed and outspaced
Needles can't be stressed enough here. That and really good spacing. This is definitely a match where you want to save your kill moves. Because if you decay them and Lucario takes on enough damage, he's going to really hurt you.
Lucario has a blind spot in the air. It is 45 degrees downward [behind him]. If you can get in that position, a bair is the perfect tool to use. Its hit box is angled slightly upward and has a lot of range, and Lucario won't be able to punish it.
You are just going to have to play this match-up smart and safe.
Neither sheik nor zelda do well in this matchup =(, but together I think they can bring it closer to even maybe an advantage.
Only other way I can think of is to gimp consistently or land ftilt->usmash consistently, but you have to do something because leaving lucario at ~120 is insanely dangerous and just makes an already bad match much worse.
Counter Pick: Halberd, since there is no wall for Lucario to wall cling with his up B, he has to either go for the ledge or the stage. If he goes for the stage, you can get off the ledge and knock him back off the side. Delfino is good for this, too.needles go through lucarios stupid ball
his recovery is severely gimpable by sheik <ish
Fsmash is ********> u basically have to shield it and punish
alot of shieks attacks are safe if lucario counters them and u can punish his counter attack
dont use tether recovery because of lucarios Dair
be sure to air dodge if lucario starts Fairing u off stage
good luck killing lucario he survives alot of crap :/
^this will make him absurdly powerful while ur trying to kill him fervently
Character # 11:Ban Frigate Orpheon in this match-up. On the first part of the stage, there is no ledge on the right, so you can't tether grab or sweet spot the ledge. Lucario, on the other hand, can up B > wall cling > jump on stage. He can do this on the left ledge too, as well as both ledges on the second part of the stage. This makes gimping very hard for you, but easier for Lucario.
Doesn't really say anything.
Ratio: 55/45 DK
Forward tilt lock him and edge guard him like there is no tomorrow or else DK will live a LONG time while you die very early.
Best way to beat a DK is to keep it in the air, and try to predict the bairs and ALSO TRY TO TECH THE CARGO SPIKE.
You are able to hold up when DK cargos you and it acts just like pressing all the buttons really fast. So you break out fast.
DK does really good in the match up. His ground game is way better than yours, you beat him easy in the air though.
needles to force sloppy approaches wait for grab ops to get him in the air. dash attack OOS on like ftilt and smashes and junk to get him in the air.
We got mutiple combos starters from like 10% and we can gimp his recovery with the fair, bair, vanish and if he hits are shield with a smash attack we got a guaranteed dacus even tipper on him for at least the fsmash if not the down as well. Just **** him with what makes sheik **** before can he **** you with what makes dk ****.
Don't run into his shield aggressively. Needles are your friend in this matchup, so don't be afraid to retreat for some distance and camp with needles. Projectiles will really annoy the DK especially if he doesn't have platforms to use in his approach. He can't close the distance quickly once you start sending needles his way regularly so you should be able to get some openings and damage this way.
In my experience it helps to maintain distance this way for the most part and have him get used to this pacing. Once you see a decent opening, say perhaps if the DK decides to use bair approaches and is rather close to you as is, u can go in with a shield dash. You need to work on getting that grab on him. After the grab, dthrow, fthrow, bthrow all work well. Once thrown and in the air, don't get hasty and cautiously approach. If he airdodges, WIN. Start the juggling, perhaps with another grab or ftilt at low %.
First time you put him in ftilt lock I suggest you keep it as long as you can and see if he UpB's out of it, which he can. Most good DKs with Sheik experience will know this. A lot, surprisingly, don't If he doesn't, grats the match has become that much easier. If he in fact does UpB out of your ftilt lock, he's gonna shoot for one of the edges so he can have a safe landing by grabbing the edge., so run after him on the ground and intercept his landing with ftilt. If you caught him, this can very well end in a gimp:
The Swam Combo works very well on DK. His aerials aren't fast enough to escape, so his only real option is upB, which just resets the situation. If you caught him with ftilt on the edge, repeat maybe 1-2 more ftilts until u got him high enough so you can then sh fair. Since he's off the edge now and fair hit him downward, you can usually walk off the edge with an fair, then sh fair him again and then recover with vanish or chain. I recommend chain if you can, so you can keep yourself hanging. Depending on % and DI, the DK may have been sent too low to recover at this point so his upB will just get to the stage but be too low to get above, and your chain will hog the edge.
IF this gimp becomes a possibility, as in the setup are made, go for it as this is the earliest you're gonna kill DK. He is pretty much the heaviest class in the game so simple power KO's with Sheik won't go so smoothly. In fact in this match-up I use usmash to damage, not KO, since killing DK upards won't happen until 150% or so anyway. I prefer hitting him off sides and intercepting. Usmash also has that special double-hitbox if timed right to do 30% damage.
When offstage and recovering, watch DK's upB.. it has good priority, ESPECIALLY the beginning of it... which also has good knockback and can gimp you when you try to gimp him. Sheik's aerials do indeed hit DK out of his upB, but requires specific timing and spacing and it's risky.
So, to sum it all up:
- Play campy with needles as much as you can -> pressure and damage DK, while also preventing him from building up his momentum or setting the pace
- Look for openings to rush in with a shield and grab.
- Once you get control, keep him in the air with his front facing you, and juggle him as much as you can. Test for upB escape. If he escapes, follow.
- Go for swan combo, especially near edge to continue off stage for a gimp.
- If DK ever regains neutral grounding versus you, retreat and camp needles.
PS. The DK may get angry at your needle camping, since it will most definitely irritate him. Keep in mind though, that this is a necessary tactic as Sheik vs DK, as he can kill you no sweat under 100% while you have to get him to 150% or so minimum on average to get a clean KO. You have projectiles, he doesn't. Use them. xD
If he EVER gets you in his cargo hold, usually meaning he wants to stage spike you, don;t mash buttons. Simply hold the control stick up. Holding the control stick up when DK has you in cargo hold provides the same input as mashing buttons perfectly. This will ensure you get out of his cargo hold as fast as possible.
Counter Pick: Rainbow Cruise to really gimp his recovery.If DK grabs you near a ledge when you are at a high enough %. The DK will have enough time to cargo spike you. The only way out of this is to tech the stage spike and get back on stage. If you are feeling gutsy, you can tech the stage spike and attempt to gimp DK. When DK attempts a cargo spike, his double jump and up B barely make it back up to the stage.
Ban: Jungle Japes.
Character # 12:
Doesn't really say anything.
Ratio: 55/45 Diddy Kong
Diddy Kong's dash attack is lagless, so watch out for it because he can use it to approach and pick up bananas.
People are to afraid of Banana's. The key to fighting Diddy is to control the Banana's.
If you do that you pretty much put a wound in his side.
Here is a list of Banana combo's/tricks that you can use on him:
If you air dodge into a Banana you can pick it up and throw it the instant you grab it.
You can Wave Dash and hit A to pick up Banana and hit it again to throw it. An unexpected trick most of the time.
You can Nair/Fair/Bair to pick up Banana's.
You can Dash Attack to pick up Banana's.
Grab Banana> SH throw Banana up> f-tilt lock> let Banana hit him if you are lucky (combo continues below)
Banana hits> space for a Swan/FSmash/USmash
Banana miss's (each color is another option)> u-tilt> grab Banana> jump> throw Banana> Dash Attack/DACUS
grab Banana> throw Banana> Needle's
grab if they slip onto the Banana upon release> almost whatever you want
Banana> DACUS/Dash Attack
jump over his head> drop (not throw) Banana> Chain (rare but you can do it)
I have been throwing Needles near the ledge with a Banana in my hand and a Diddy will try to Banana glide toss and follow up with a Dash attack. What I do is shield, jump, drop Banana and deploy the chain. Some times he will slip behind you and he will get reverse chain locked... until you reach his Banana though. <,< Then you slip and get punished, but who cares you already destroyed the little guy.
Banana> Needle's (does 22%)
Dash Throw> Grab
back flip> drop (not throw) Banana> Nair to pick it up> throw Banana> Dash Attack/Needles
back flip> drop Banana> Bair them into Banana (weak hit)> almost whatever you want
When controlling items you have to keep a jugglers mind set. Toss things straight up and have a set time for when they come back down. When you know they are going to come back down use them to aid in comboing.
Here is how long each Banana is in the air when using different toss's:
Banana toss up while on the ground is airborne for 2.5 seconds.
Banana toss up in the air is airborne for 2 seconds.
Banana dropped from a short hop takes 1 second to reach the ground.
Banana dropped from a full hop takes 1.5 second to reach the ground.
Banana thrown down from a full hop takes 1 second to reach the ground.
Banana thrown down from a short hop takes .5 second to reach the ground.
Jumping and throwing to the side barely influence's the distance. Stick to throwing them on the ground.
Now here is a useful trick to keep a Banana with you while you space with Airials.
(stolen from Link)
Jump> drop (not throw)> airial
The airial will make you grab the Banana again but you will also be performing an attack.
That said you can do these combo's:
jump> Banana drop> Bair/Nair/Fair (regrabs Banana)> throw Banana> almost whatever you want
f-tilt decay> USmash works at 81%.
diddy has way more range than sheik and he is on par for speed, he has a stronger ground game imo, but his approach without banana's is pretty weak so yeah control the 'nanas.
Use bair to control where he can and can't go. needles are excellent and long and medium ranges. get him in the air and win. edge guarding him is purty simple if he is upBing nair him and get a kill.
Counter Pick: Rainbow Cruise so that he can't use bananas as easily and you can gimp his recovery easier.what i do with the banana is i throw it down at the ground 1 or 2 time then pick it up and throw it at the diddy. the diddy would either slip either way. unless they catch the banana or jump which leads them to less options. which sets you up for needles into dacus or something like that. my opinon on this match up is that you have to be either defensive or super aggressive. you basically have to dodge bunch of bananas. you can sit up for gimps like run after them off the stage needle glide, then needle them off stage. or bair them from behind and stage spike what ever works best for you. ftilt to usmash is useful. just calculate the banana throw and try to catch it or space it. or dodge it. but thats what they want you to do. is dodge em . because you have less options. and try to bair you or such. and when diddy uses the dash attack into usmash. just be ready for that. shield that. and dont try to punish unless after the usmash you can nair probably.
Ban: Final destination since there are no platforms for you to avoid bananas and approach.
Character # 13:
"Ash: It's following Pikachu around like its a streaker or something,
Brock Harrison: Huh Ash you mean a STALKER! "
Ratio: 60/40 Pikachu
avoid chain grab... xD
dtilt ftilt fsmash, most of his ground attacks out range ours by a lot.
Pika... I don't know about the match up all that much. I take damage to indefinitely avoid the chaing grab out side of that with pika's bad grab range and the fast that there is only one of him spacing ftilt and bair and even fair you can avoid his grabs. bair beats his air game I believe and you are faster than him on the ground, but you really have to watch your spacing at low percents with ground moves. pika doesn't seem to have many strong approaches against sheik dash attack jab grab and nair can answer just about everything pika can do to your sheild from the air.
Talking from experince playing with Gallax... I don't find the match up all that bad if you keep your distance and watch your approaches.
If Pikachu grabs you, be prepared to eat a LOT of damage. I'm pretty sure Pika can chain grab you till over 100% and end it with an up smash. If you get in that position, try to DI the up smash the best you can and hope you survive.
Pikachu usually gets his grabs by punishing ending lag or by FF fair > grab. [But...]
Watch out for thunder ledge guards. I'm pretty sure Sheik can tether through the thunder, but I am not sure.You can get out of the FF fair > grab by jabbing after the FF fair. Trust me, a Sheik embarassed me with that in a recent tournament T.T
Counter Pick: Final destination to make this match-up more even.Like people have been saying, avoid grabs at low percents or you'll be in for a world of hurt. Pikas will probably Utilt after the chaingrab because it's less DIable (aka you're more vulnerable to Thunder) than Usmash. I'm pretty sure Pikachu can do Utilt to QA lock at 0% against Sheik, so don't fall for that either.
Pikachu's jab is very quick and has some decent disjointedness (and can cause tripping) so be aware of that. Pikachu's kills will generally come from Fsmash, Usmash, or Nair. Fsmash (sweetspotted, so close to Pikachu) is it's one reliable kill move so don't let it connect with that. Spaced Fsmash has noticably lower kill potential (pretty much to the point where it's not a kill move). Usmash and Nair are lesser kill moves but they're a lot easier to land. Always DI Uthrow, Utilt, Usmash, sourspotted Fsmash (it sends you straight up) and Dsmash (if you somehow don't SDI out of it) or you'll be killed by a Thunder at higher percents. T2 (when Pikachu gets hit by the thunder) kills at very low percents, but you shouldn't be getting hit by that because you're freaking Sheik...?
Ban: Any stage that has a walk off, such as Delfino and Castle Siege because Pikachu can chain grab you to the blast zone.
Character # 14:
Ratio: 80/20 IC
That's right, CRY!
Pretty much don't get grabbed, and don't do risky things like needling while in the air because of the long lag once you hit the ground. The CG to Meteor can be canceled, or if you DI to the side (away from stage) their Fair will be sourspotted and won't hit you downwards.
I think what makes this matchup so ridiculous is that Shiek can't do...Shiek stuff against ICs. Most of her tools are completely taken away:
Forward Tilt: Not gonna work either. Well, most of the time. If Shiek screws up, she will be getting grabbed or come out extremely hurt though. I really don't think the risk is worth it though and would not use this move. :x
A single Ice Climber can chaingrab Shiek to about 40+% with Down Throw. That's defenitely something to think about. Most of her reliable kill setups become useless because the other Ice Climber is there. =/ I think the most she can do is BAir gimp Nana, and that's easier said than done.
Sheik won't be able to do much in this match-up until Sheik somehow separates Nana and Popo. Nana's AI is kinda crappy, so after separating them, chasing Nana and gimping her should not be that difficult unless Popo comes and saves Nana with up B. If you somehow manage to separate and kill Nana, Popo shouldn't pose too much of a threat. Just watch out for the down throw chain grab. Also, if Popo is alone, Sheik can grab release to tipper DACUS.
This is probably the one match-up where Zelda is worth learning.
Something good to note though if you manage to kill nanna then you should switch back to sheik since she has a grab release into dacus on IC's. Ice climbers are not hard to grab...at all.
Sheik is extremely easy to chain grab, and 1 climber can chain grab her and end with an Fsmash at the end of the stage, then grab the edge and attempt an edgeguard.
Sheik's Ftilt is annoying to Ice Climbers, and for some reason Nana doesn't tend to DI the same way as Popo from it, so that's a possibility of splitting them up.
Needles stop Ice Blocks, Ice Blocks are less effective because of Needles, I personally would rather have the needles in this matchup since they can stop desynced approaches. Too bad Ice Climbers don't have to approach Sheik.
Blizzard actually doesn't seem as helpful against Sheik as it is against most characters, to me. Mostly that's because they don't need it.
In the end, I'd say just switch to Zelda. Even if you don't know how to use Zelda, use her. Her hitboxes and din's fire screw the Ice Climbers over.
Counter Pick: Rainbow Cruise because IC can't continue their CG on you because the stage is moving. Also, it's easier to gimp them here.I'd say stuff like learn to space but I won't.
I'd say needles destroy all IC ground approach options but... who'd believe me?
the match up isn't in her favor but if you don't mind camping it's an easy win. They can't approach you and you have a better projectile camp game.
I'll clearify. Ice shot does spot needles. thats true, but ice blocks have crazy lag and start up time. Needles are an excellent tool to punish any wiffed IC move very very safely. Ice shot is purely a defensive attack.
Zelda isn't special against the ICs she still has the same issue. I don't believe she is any better in the match up. Din's is actually useful here but spare that all ICs have to do in not blindly approach and like with every character in the game zelda's big hit boxes and bigger knock back mean very little.
I obviously don't know abything about the game though, lol. I have a different opinion.
Ban: Any stage with a walk-off like Castle Siege and Delfino because they can CG you to the blast zone.
Character # 15:
Ratio: 55/45 Kirby
Stay the hell away if he's jumping with his back to you. He's lighter than Wario and leaves larger gaps, but in return you don't have a grab release KO on him and his fsmash is absurdly powerful.
Discourage any excessive camping with needles, but otherwise play a normal cautious game. You can't really ftilt lock Kirby, so it's down to ftilt x2 into ender. Go with either utilt or fair, depending on which seems to lead to better setups for you. The ftilt nair combo deals decent damage but seeing as how Kirby's not gonna let you land random smashes on him I'm rather loathe to decay Sheik's strongest aerial.
Chain works great if he starts getting a little too close with his aerial camping, but Final Cutter gets right past it, so don't hold it out for any longer than you have to. Kirby can duck under single needles, so most of the time it isn't worth it to throw any less than a full charge. Being light, a Vanish KO isn't too unreasonable. Try to time it to take out his recovery, since his Up+B doesn't auto-grab the ledge from below.
It's not a terrible idea to go Zelda in this matchup either. His aerial camping is much more dangerous when it can be met with lightning kicks, and you'll no longer have a priority problem. On the other hand, your recovery will be much more vulnerable.
Before the ftilt into usmash I had more or less decided the match up being too difficult to effectively use sheik for....However with the ftilt to usmash mix with his light weight it's very possible to do it on him and in a very low %.
Like ankoku said the chain does work but I suggest only doing it under a platform because even if you manage to get kirby in a volley in chain hits he can just DI up into stone which can kill... The platform also makes the final cutter less effective especially on stages like Yoshi story.
if we even start our Fthrowyou can Nair us before we even get the first Uair in. Our Fthrow combos don't work on shiek.
That being said, Dthrow combos do!
Also, while Shiek is harder to combo than some, she's definitely not too tough. Also, she'll have a tough time killing us, whereas she dies pretty easily if we land a KO move on her, as well as being fairly gimpable (though if we aren't careful in our gimpings, we're going to eat vanish, and it will hurt.).
Not really sure how well the chain works in this matchup, but I kind of doubt we can SDI up and rock... That thing takes forever to work, and I don't think we can really get high enough above you to hit, and if we can, it's not the first thing a Kirby player will think of.
I believe you are at a disadvantage if you are above us, as Shiek doesn't really have a reliable way of striking below her, since her Dair seems pretty bad from an outsiders point of View, so you want to watch out for Uair chains.
Our Bair is disjoincted and strong, so be careful. I think your Bair and Nair outrange it though, but I could be wrong.
If we do Final Cutter, powershield/jump over it and punish it. We have so much lag on that thing it's not even funny.
On the ground, your tilts outrange us, and your Dsmash is faster than anything we have I believe.
And now, the biggest thing that tips this in our favor IMO:
We can inhale you, wait for you to break out, then get a guaranteed footstool.
Now we can do this on other characters too, but here's the thing: Very few of your moves outrange inhale, and your recovery is pretty linear. This all sets up for this scenario.
Because of sheik's strange hurtbox, she can escape the gonzo combo (kirby has to wait a second before he can uair, which lets sheik jump and/or airdodge away).
Inhale you, jump offstage, and kirbycide. If you try to break out, we footstool you and survive while you die. If for some reason you don't go low enough, then we can dair spike you and come back onstage.I haven't heard about this before. What can Kirby do out of the footstool?
Incredible gimp setup, don't you think?
Counter Pick: FD or SmashvilleIf we inhale you onstage, we wait a few seconds, jump off the stage and let you brake out, which guarantees a footstool on you. Footstool guarantees a dair->footstool on any character (fromundaman was, in fact, the one who discovered that).
Character # 16:Kirby kills easily on brinstar, and has numerous exploits. However, it would help you with the gimp aspect and allow you to kill earlier, so up to you.
That being said, Kirby has a lot of good stages and no really bad stages.
I'd suggest banning either RC, PTAD, JJ, PS1, PS2, Brinstar, or Pictochat, depending on which Kirby you're facing and what is legal at that tourny.
"You can't defeat me!" - Pit, Super Smash Brother Brawl
Ratio: 55/45 Sheik
Pit is such an underused character.
You can ftilt lock him. You can run fast. You can shield from your dash relatively quickly. You can edgeguard. I don't see how this matchup could even be argued against Sheik's favor.
Anyway, Pit's arrows can easily be shielded, but they still prove a nuisance and give him initiative if he reads your movement well enough. Your options are to run in with shield, walk in with shield, jump over the arrows, or disrupt with needles (only if you started first; trading needles for arrows is a losing trade for you).
His greatest asset will be his clear advantage with disjointed hitboxes - you are never going to beat his uair, his fair and bair have a bit of startup but outrange most of your options, and the only way you can challenge his nair is with a maximum range fair (it has a bit of an invisible disjoint). His aerial mobility isn't as strong as G&W's or Marth's, but it still lets him play a relatively safe zoning game with them as long as he keeps you locked in shieldstun. If for some reason he lands right in front of you though, go ahead and punish from shield.
As I mentioned above, Sheik can ftilt lock Pit. However, ftilting shield is risky because of the speed and range of his fsmash. If you connect with a shield, instead of ftilting again, jab cancel to cover any poke attempts. In terms of killing, Pit is a medium-weight and has mediocre vertical momentum canceling.
Pit has too many options in the air for you to effectively juggle him from dthrow setups, so just run fthrow/bthrow and punish improper DI as appropriate.
Pit's Wings of Icarus is a horribly vulnerable recovery and is typically only used as a last resort, since getting hit out of it means he can't use it again until grabbing a ledge or landing somewhere. If he uses his Up+B stupidly, you have all sorts of punishment options available with needles, chain, and aerials. Don't count on this happening against any decent level Pits, though.
Don't spotdodge or roll into Pit. It can only lead to bad news.
Counter Pick: Battle FieldI forgot to point out that Sheik's ftilt actually clashes with Pit's fsmash first hit.
Ban: Final Desination
Character # 17:
"Can't let you do that, Star Fox!" Wolf, Star Fox 64
Ratio: 60/40 Sheik
Sheik can ftilt Wolf from 30% to high %s or maybe even death (finish with up smash).
just ftilt wolf
u actually have to play kinda defensive since he moves pretty fast, he can space autocancel fairs and bairs easily
and then forward smash and ftilt set up a really good zone in front of him which makes it hard to get in to ftilt and stuff... well, kinda
the best way to approach him is just from the air, with fairs and nairs and stuff, just dont do it blindly into a shield or u will get grabbed
other than that, just ftilt-> usmash him all dai son
edge guarding is easy too.. just like edge guarding falco except not as reliable
u guys got this matchup (harder than fox IMO but easier than falco)
Counter Pick:this match up isn't that hard, just like chok said except that i approach on the ground using shield dashes and try to bait his smash attacks, which all wolves love to spam for some reason. As long as you hold shield through them, you win. Just watch out for the grab and be ready to f-tilt away
Ban:i would say lylat, pokemon stadium 1, wolf has serious recovery problems on both of those stages
Character # 18:stages to ban would be yoshis, and castle siege because wolf is amazing on both of those stages. Also because on yoshis the platform could potentially mess up your approaches, and on castle siege, the same thing + tilted ground + stage changes + wolf can kill easily off the sides and on top of that on the second stage change you don't even have to recover....
"(After trying to lift a heavy stone) With the power you have now, you can neither lift nor destroy that stone. And yet, somewhere on this sea, the power to do so lies waiting for one to find it. You must seek it out!" King of Red Lions, Wind Waker
Ratio: 55/45 Sheik
I think Toon Link is a character with a very annoying projectile game, especially when used in tandem with his bair and zair. However, everything he does has a gap of varying size, being largest with his projectiles and smash attacks, and smallest with his zair. Those small openings are probably what you'll want to go for, as well as edgeguarding, since Toon Link's recovery is decidedly linear. Watch out for bombs, since those can combo into things like dairs.
I don't remember if Toon Link could be ftilt locked or not, but my feeling's telling me no, so you should instead just run standard ftiltx2-ender combos, if you plan on taking the ftilt-usmash path to the KO.
Don't play his ranged game, it is not fun. From my experience getting inside him hurts him a lot. Sheik's speed is probably your best friend in this match-up. Keep pressure on him, cause giving Toon Link time to get adjusted doesn't end well for you. Like Ankoku said, gimp him. Foward Tilt can help, but he's no fox. Your safe with 2-3. Beware the gimmicks and tricks. From what I've seen from Santi and my buddy who plays Toon-Link, they've gotten pretty sneaky with tricks.
pressure toon link HARD
he can do a lot of stuff and if he gets good spamming momentum, the damage can be racked really high... and then when u think u have a chance just cuz u got in... he'll start using zairs and usmashes and tilts and stuff. sheik heavily outspeeds him in very close range with jabs and ftilt, but he has ways to deal with you.
The thing about TL is that he's very versatile with his projectiles. Platforms give you options when it comes to arrows and possibly boomerangs, but they allow for a LOT of bomb setups, many of which can lead to a KO.
TLs main set ups are his bombs, his hook shot, and his boomerang. Perfect shield the boomerang and it wont cause anymore trouble, shield the bombs and they will bounce which could be good or bad, as for the hook shot thats a pretty tough thing to deal with, u cant out range it with ur attacks so i would probly perfect shield and jump out of it to try and punish spacing. avoid being hit by those attacks because they can easily lead to kill moves. another thing to watch out for is his Bair which sets up to alot of things and is very difficult to escape if u get hit with one rising u should be aware of all the follow ups. TL can also juggle u pretty hard. All of shieks usual strats work in this match except her DACUS which can be stopped easily by a good TL but u can still use it when the opportunity arises another good thing in this match is needles which are faster then TLs projectiles and will give u some openings. I think I would call this another 55:45-50:50 in TLs favor which seems to be an average match up for shiek
:/ U guys arent taking into account that we arent exactly toast upclose. We have our spacing aerials, nair bair and zair and they all outrange u. Just saying, it is much harder to beat us upclose than u guys seem to think :/. Anyways, this is a pretty even match i would say 50/50. And about tilt locking TL- u can get around 2-3 ftilts and then a fair.
Counter Pick: Final Destination, Smashville, and Frigate Orpheon.Sheik has the advantage (fun match-up btw) if sheik can inside of toon link we dont have many many options. We can Nair, Bair, retreating Zair, jab, and D-tilt, if you let us stay away (which you should never do) good luck. watch out for bomb tricks, TL got a lot of them like the invici-bomb
Ban: Brinstar, Pirate Ship, Battle Field, Yoshi's Island, and Halberd.
Character # 19:
"We're heading out. All aircraft report." Fox, Star Fox 64
Ratio: 80/20 Sheik
Sheik can ftilt lock Fox from 30% to death (finish with an up smash).
Actually dair starts to combo into dsmash/usmash much earlier than that......around the 70% range. It also combos into his utilt at mid percentages so it sets him up nicely for juggling opportunities against Sheik. Dair is really overused by Fox players though, the more knowledgeable players will only use dair as a punisher.
Fox is fast as f***. He has an AC bair, fair, and uair........and nair and dair aren't even noticeably laggy. He has a frame 2 jab, frame 3 utilt, and frame 4 dsmash.
You do have to be rather cautious in the matchup because Fox can get you into usmash range pretty quick so make sure you take care of him effeciently and effortlessly.
It's really too bad we **** him so much with ftilt.......otherwise this would be one of the most enjoyable matches in Brawl. It's still a hard counter matchup though.
Sheik rapes Fox because of her ftilt. Without it, Fox might actually have an advantage. But with it, it's not a matchup worth playing for Fox.
on fox, i discovered an easy way to make sure you don't mess up at the start of the f-tilt combo. In this case you can very easily do f-tilt -> jab twice, and from there easily just continue on with the regular f-tilt's following his DI till about 100 then with the u-smash to finish. That's about all that is needed to defeat a fox.
As previously mentioned, yes, FOX IS HILARIOUSLY FAST, and the moves that don't AC aren't exactly slow, so he'll build damage quick, and he can pester with lasers. I think we can crouch it, I'm not sure lol. Edgeguarding Fox can be a little tricky because he's far more versitile than Falco thanks to DJ Fair, Shine, and varying use of Firefox and Illusion. If he gets into a predictable pattern, Fox is as goo as dead
Another thing to look out for would be the JJ-cancel. Its their jab-jab cancel that can lead into so many things. I'm not sure what Sheik's options are since they aren't done testing but if Sheik gets knocked off the ground as it's being done, Fox has followups like grabs, tilts, and even Usmash. I think we can beat it with our own quick jab, but it needs testing.
Fox gets ***** by Ftilt
Without Ftilt, Fox has a slight advantage (nothing huge). Just smack him with Ftilt once he's at 25%. I don't know. What else is there to discuss?
Really, there are two things Sheik needs to do.
1) Get Fox to 25%
2) Ftilt x n -> Usmash
If you don't Ftilt lock, this is a really fun matchup. Either way, Fox will just run and laser and run and laser and pester and get in tiny hits that lead to 20-40% combos or DI chases. It adds up if you're not careful; so it's not unwinnable for Fox.
A few moves you need to watch out for:
1) Dair: Fox mains are actually getting good with this move, so don't get hit by it - you'll eat Utilt, jabs, grabs, Dsmash, Usmash at various percents, and then you'll get chased and punished if your DI/tech gets read.
2) Nair: This move stuffs so many things it's ridiculous. I don't play Fox v Sheik, but this is a staple in many matchups that lets Fox beat out otherwise tough defenses should he be forced to approach.
3) Utilt: This clanks with the best of smashes and beats out a bunch of other moves. Just be careful if Fox is facing away from you; he's not that vulnerable at all.
4) Usmash: Duh.
5) Lasers: Don't let the laser camping get to you. Fox has a "deadspot" in mid range where it's unsafe to laser camp, and he can't get in close enough to box. Abuse this (with Ftilt) whenever possible.
Counter Pick: Any neutralAnd all the good Foxes say don't play this matchup against good Sheiks. It's possible to DI out, yes, but then Sheik just need to pause and re-start. The Ftilt will get you, and when it does, Fox loses. Just out of curiosity, who are these good Foxes you're playing?
Also, don't start the Ftilt lock below 25%, since Fox can DI down, powershield, Upsmash out of it.
Ban: Any stage that can hurt you or changes, such as Halberd and Frigate Orpheon.
Character # 20:
"Shadow and Light are two sides of the same coin...One cannot exist without the other." Zelda, LoZ Twilight Princess
Ratio: 50/50 Even
I'm not convinced that this is an even match-up like I've been seeing everywhere. It feels more as if Sheik has a solid advantage against Zelda. I don't even think Zelda's Fsmash is safe on block against Sheik.
Use fully charged needles to punish her whenever she wants to attack, and use any other needle when you're outside of her range. Even if she Nayru's it, Sheik should be able to punish her. After all, it's a move that lasts 52 frames. Ftilt -> utilt religiously. I don't like when I see Sheiks get hit by Nayru's or something from an ftilt at a good %. Zelda is likely easier to gimp than to ftilt -> Usmash, but she's not hard to kill.
Get her in the air. Don't be stupidly obvious with your aerials because Zelda can beat them out... or rather, don't get directly in her range. You can be obvious at an angle while you fair her. Edgeguard her very aggressively.
hit her off stage and keep her off.
Needle spam. Don't feel like you have to approach. dash attack can punish anything that hits sheild. Zelda only looks good if you are approaching agressively stay out of her attack range but keep pressure on her and you'll be fine.
zelda has one of the worst recoveries in the game. (and by that I mean she has a hard time getting onstage and not being punished for it after faroe's wind) Once you hit her off stage you should be taking a stock. Hit her off stage and force her to recover with wind again and again until you get a solid kill option.
Sheiks pressure game is too much for Zelda to really handle all that well. In theory, it seems like Zelda would have the superior moveset due to range and priority but then you realize that Sheik can just play hit and run and there's not much Zelda can do about it........Sheiks baiting game actually is really good in this matchup.
Zelda keeps this close because of her KO ability and still having a range/priority advantage......but really Sheik can avoid her a ton.
Needle camping, meh. Zelda's reflector keeps her stationary, true, but so does Sheik's needles. When you try to camp, all she has to do is refect. There's no way you can make it in time to punish her if you shoot even a single needle. I guess it depends on the players' abilities to predict their opponent, though.
her multi-hit attacks that will punish many of Sheiks aerial approaches. She can quite easily bait Sheik with Din, though she cannot camp. A well controlled projectile means it can be quite hard for Sheik to recover without being punished, and Zelda's punishing moves are very apt for KOs.
Sheik can't f-tilt lock zelda so well, and getting a tipper on her isn't simple. Zelda can d-tilt lock Sheik though for long enough to possibly get a KO or gimp if she has an unstaled Dsmash or Fsmash.
Again, im not saying Sheik has no hope here. Infact, I think it's mostly a matter of player skill in this matchup, however, Zelda has a lot of defensive options that work well on Sheik, while many of Sheik's fall-back setups don't work especially well on Zelda.
as said before, you have to get zelda into the air. unfortunately this is easier said than done since zelda is one of those characters who will rarely use their aerials except for KOing.
but once you get zelda in the air, the rest is cake since zelda cannot do anything if sheik is underneath her. u-air is a great as it puts you in the safest position as you wont have to worry about KO aerials or n-air.
chase zelda off the edge, there isnt anything she can do, her recovery is laggy and hitting her offstage can really hurt her chances of recovery
Counter Pick: Final Destination, Delfino, and Halberd.Sheik shouldn't have to switch to Zelda to KO her. Zelda's recovery is very straight forward and predictable, so Sheik should have an easy time gimping Zelda.
Ban: Battle field, and Smashville.
Character # 21:
Zero Suit Samus / ZSS
Ratio: 45/55 Sheik
Anyway, just make sure not to fall for her frametraps. Most of ZSS's good moves have either punishable startup or punishable cooldown, but never both.
The ftilt lock is easily broken with down-b, but down-b is really predictable in terms of trajectory and it is very easy for you guys to follow up with something else due to your speed and agility.
I think perhaps the most irritating parts of the match-up for me are the shield pressure you guys are capable of putting onto ZSS, which is unique for Sheik because shield pressure isn't exactly a specialty of her's, but it is a reality. Because of the nature of your jab combo and your needles, and because of ZSS' weakness to characters with a combination of long-range hit-stun inducing projectiles and close range shield pressure, your shield pressure game, which is usually not great, suddenly becomes very good and very annoying to us.
With that said, ZSS will kill you pretty early because you're light, and because ZSS has really good movement-cancelling with her uair and because of Sheik's "problems" killing (I realize you guys have found pretty reliable kills nowadays, but many of them are still pretty hard to hit ZSS with if she's expecting them), ZSS won't die for a while despite her weight. Still, Sheik has an easier time than most of the cast gimping her off-stage and even those of us who don't think this match-up is that bad are afraid of Sheik's fair when recovering.
When fighting ZSS you will find that she will try very hard to stay at mid-range where she will be most comfortable. Paralyzer will be easily punished so she probably won't use it. She will punish your rolls easily with dsmash, so avoid using those when possible. She will also punish your up+b recovery when coming back on stage with dsmash, so try to aim for ledges when recoverying and quickly come back up so you don't get stage spiked. The only time we will use Paralyzer Shot is when you try to approach from far away with a DACUS. Believe it or not, those things are telegraphed, and Paralyzer is the perfect move to deal with them. So don't abuse DACUS. You'll get wrecked.
Up close, you'll find that ZSS' tilts have very high priority, good range and disjointed hitboxes, which can be a huge pain for Sheik if you make a mistake. ZSS' utilt is very good as a punishing blow and out of shield, so of course you'll want to look out for that.
In the air, ZSS wins when she is below you, so you really want to avoid this situation. You have the same "stall and fall" dair that she does, just without the insane priority and damage... so you'll get wrecked if you jump to avoid side-b; she will uair and bair you to hell. Instead, powershield it and walk forward or just camp with needles. Don't try to approach her from the air. It is what she wants and you will get punished, and besides, the needles are ridiculously annoying to her, so there's no reason to be aggressive here. If you must approach in the air, fast-falling a nair or uair is the best choice. DO NOT FAIR as an approach. You will get powershielded and the first side-b hitbox will come out before you land.
Also don't switch to Zelda for kills, you won't get them, usually, and you'll just get wrecked, lol.
Anyway, the needles might be bunk at mid-range but they are really, really good at long range. Even if she powershields them while approaching, you are limiting her options and maybe even dealing some psychological damage, depending on the player. Abuse them at long range, seriously. ZSS has no long-range projectile options. As a matter of fact, I don't think it is fair to say she has "ranged attacks." She's kind of a hybrid, with mid-ranged attacks and close range attacks with good range, but at the expense of a long-range attack.
Needles are ****. Zsam can't punish them well even at close ranges. sheik can jump in out of Zsams effective range very easily and there isn't much she can do about it because her ground attacks don't have strong answers to sheiks aerial and ground pokes. and once you get below zsam whelp that a lot of free damage and an edge gaurd in the right situation.
Oh and off stage sheil generaly is going to win with edge gaurds. low angle knock off are normally a stock against tetherers. Zsam is not an exception.
Counter Pick: Frigate Orpheon and Jungle JapesIn addition to that, chain is very nice way to edge hog. It stops the side-B being used, and timing the pull up to stop getting spiked by the up-B should result in an easy kill at any distance a ZSS is force to use a tether.
Ban: Rainbow Cruise and Lylat
Character # 22:
"I know what you're thinking....all this power, AND looks, too!" ~Bowser
Watch out for his crazy OoS and grab release game. Also, his upB has invincibility from the first frame, so when you are locking him, be careful of the percents, as he has lower than average hitstun, so will be able to upB into your face if you try too early. For the same reason, never hit his shield. You will either get up B again, or grabbed, and he has a lot of options from grab releases.
[Jump Grab Release]
Grab release chaingrab
Grab release fair offstage
Grab release fair
[Ground Grab Release]
Grab release regrab
Grab release overb
Grab release downb
Grab release ftilt
Grab release dtilt
Grab release jab
Grab release regrab
Grab release overb
Grab release ftilt
Grab release jab
Your shield pressure will not work against Bowser, our OOS game is just to good. Bowser outranges shieks ground game a lot, so you are going to want to needle camp, and get bowser into the air whenever you can. DO NOT approach Bowser. Bowser has a lot of grab release tricksies on sheik so try to avoid getting grabbed. If you play both Zelda and Sheik then use Zelda. She has a pretty significant against Bowser.
Yeah bowser is a beast out of shield and defensively in general. UpB and his amazing grab game easily put him up there as one of the best but what he lack is speed and mobility. I don't care how much claw hopping your opponent is doing as a competent sheik you are supposed to be controlling where he is and is not. You don't need to pllay pressure directly to him to do this.
Needles are a key tool in this match up... oh wait, they are in every match up. AGAIN you havethe better projectile and that means you do not have to approach the defensive master. And that fact alone completely destroys his defensive game entirely. Agianst shiek bowser has a few approach/poke options. Ftilt which can be punished and easily read, fair which again can be punished and easily read and avoided and claw which you should never be in range for in the first place.
Bowser is horrible in the air when compared to shiek. he has more range yes, but you out speed him with all of your attacks and hit places where he can't really defend.
With needles your edge guard game is monstrous against bowser, espeacially when combined with your fair which hit bowser out at a very low angles, his bane.
UpB which is normally safe against a lot of the cast can always be punished on sheild or whiffed with needles and dacus
Sheiks biggest plus is how well she can adapt to any situation you can be very very agressive with her when you need to be like agianst Zsam for example or you can pull off and play the defensive waiting camp game for characters who excel defensively like the worst character in the game zelda, or bowser. If you aren't adapting to each new situation and just sticking to one of these two play styles then you aren't using sheik to her full potential.
It is difficult for Sheik to defeat Bowser on the ground. Relying on FTilt for everything will not work, though if the opportunity arises Sheik's should take full advantage. Surprise single needles (and the move in general) works moderately well against Bowser, but good Bowser players know how to use the shield to its fullest and will just powershield their way through the onslaught, so camping wont last long. The chain works well at times from a distance (no seriously) so you should pull it out from time to time. If you insist on trying your luck with ground combo's, try and get in a grab as quick as possible otherwise you will get fortressed... in fact regardless of anything you'll end up getting fortressed, also don't think you can keep sponging that move, it is very capable of killing. Bowser's far easier to deal with in the air, and a few of Sheik's aerials are pretty quick, good for keeping the pressure on; though Bowser isn't as much of a slouch in the air as some like to believe, watch out for his surprisingly long lasting Nair and Dair. Off edge, try and keep Bowser off, recovering is more or less all he can concentrate on, i say try and bully him off with Bair's, do not boldly jump out and try to fair like you're at 0 risk of anything, because a good Bowser will time a lovely SideB which will eat through your attack and possibly cause a Bowsercide, something you do not want happening, remember that you have slight control over the moves trajectory, so if you do get grabbed, DI toward the stage to avoid the inconvenient cide.
As for defending against Bowser, watch out for... well, everything really. Bowser's first jab is a god send, most Bowser's don't do it but he can cancel that first jab into almost any other move, FTilt, DTilt, UpB, SideB, grab, just don't let Bowser hit you, only come in close when the opportunity is visible, otherwise like i said earlier, you'll just get fortressed or shield grabbed. Oh and speaking of grabs, Bowser has a grab release chain grab on Sheik, it's far more dangerous than you might expect, Bowser racks up damage like a god **** express train. You don't have the range to take on cautious Bowser's who know how to space, in this situation resort to more needling to force approaches or your chain. I'm dead serious, don't think you can trade blows with Bowser and come out on top, and Bowser has quite a few methods of killing, he is not relegated to forward smashes like some idiots believe, and on the note of smash attacks, watch out for Bowser's USmash as it's surprisingly quick, and his FSmash has disjointed hitboxes that can catch you on the ledge, also keep in mind that you can DI out of his DSmash (and flame breath), don't sit there getting skewered by the move, smack those control sticks and get out of there.
For the bowser matchup, sheik has to rely on her f-tilt to keep bowser in check. Due to sheik's light weight bowser can kill her with any tilt moderately low percentages (D-tilt kills at 83% if at the edge of the stage, F-tilt kills her at 104% at the edge of the stage, and U-tilt kills her at 90% all with bad/no DI) And with his even stronger smashes his attacks kill even earlier near 70%. A way to beat this would be to needle camp on the other side of the stage. Bowser's U-tilt can kill you early if you are above him so stages like YI brawl and SV would not be good to camp up there. Or, you could just f-tilt lock him from 0 to 50% or so and upsmash him to get him to 80% (roughly) which will help the killing process.
The only way bowser can actually be KOed by sheik besides a DACUS is by gimping him after his 2nd jump. That is the easiest way to kill bowser. He is easily gimped due to his size. So i see this matchup as a 60:40 or 55:45 matchup. Just stay away from his strong attacks and sheild out of dash to approch him.
Careful of the Koopa Klaw Walls which have grab priority and do 18% each undecayed.
There is a chance of Bowser down-Bing when you follow him in the air so try to predict and punish. KOing Bowser proves to be difficult so gimping at low percents is probably the best bet (horrible vertical recovery and decent horizontal.) Ftilt will launch him into the air which offers juggle oppurtunities and I think that Fortress can get him punished if it's not done on the ground.
If you shield out of his grab release, 2 jabs and down b might break your shield.
Bowser has an amazing ground game, good Bowser's with great shielding abilities coupled with nice jab canceling skills, good spacing and the Fortress makes for a surprisingly tough fight for Sheik's. Her moves are fast and FTilt is pretty deadly, but it's not as easy to pull off as one might assume, especially since Bowser can Fortress at almost any time when things get a little too heated. Flame Breath also has a lot of range and throws people off their game a bit, although it does have a bad amount of startup and ending lag which can both be punished.
Anyway... Bowser's options on the ground all have a good amount of range and the speedy first Jab is more or less the ultimate setup. The options Bowser has after that first jab is incredible, but usually attempting a grab is the most common option when Sheik is at low percentages, usually to attempt the chaingrab to rack up a fair bit of damage; there's little need to fear jab cancel to forward tilt at lower percentages but it'll become a pain later on, also watch out for canceled DTilt's, it's slower than FTilt but hits twice and deals more damage. I'll also mention the Klaw here (SideB), it can be used after the first jab and is dishes out a lot of damage, the knockback can be DI'd and it shouldn't be KO-ing you before 150%ish, it's deceptive range and grab armor allow it to eat through all of Sheiks attacks.
As i said earlier though, it's mostly a range problem vs Bowser. Sheiks ground moves are fast but they lack the range to catch cautious Bowser's trying to get that swipe (or maybe Fair), and getting in too close may not always be the wisest choice as their is the risk of getting Fortressed. On that note I'll explain a little bit more about the Fortress; you're probably aware of the move as it pretty much defines this character, I'll go a bit deeper on how its utilized though. It's an almost universal move that can be the answer in almost any situation, this is because it does decent knockback, nice amount of damage, comes out in the blink of an eye and has gargantuan amounts of priority; Bowser's will use this to get you out of their face, and it will work. I could be wrong but i'm going to assume that it out prioritizes or clanks with every move Sheik has, don't do a clank battle with the Fortress because you wont win, after a clank Bowser will mostly likely spin again, so shield (and grab). Once Sheik can get a combo going on Bowser, if She does not get him in the air as soon as possible, it is only a matter of time before the Fortress reveals itself, and it is pretty frustrating when it does.
Then there's the KO thing. I'm not saying Sheik can't KO, just that it's a little more difficult to take down Bowser, although gimping is still a viable option.
You can needle camp, but the Bowser will probably approach you while shielding the needles. Then when he get's close to you, you have to be very careful. I recommend needle camping on the sides of whatever stage you are playing on. This way, if Bowser grabs you, you won't be chain grabbed for too long before you reach the ledge.
guys stay out of his grab range punish his sillyness with dash attack OOS to get him in the air. uair and fair are beastly at this point. Bowser has no viable approaches on sheik. he doesn't have the speed to beat her out unless he is on the defensive. obviously the only way he can be defensive is if you are being agressive. Don't be. It's really that simple.
If bowser's approach and defense games were so good he'd be doing much better at that competitive level. Similar to zelda bowser has a great stand still game but when camped and forced to move he becomes so much less versitile. it's easy to say sheild needles. but they have one of the lowest start ups and are the fastest moving projectile in the game. you shoot more than one needle so powersheilding isn't going to cut through it like it does for a lot of other character's projectile and camp games.
Sheik's grab game is also very important in this match up. it get bowser in the air where you have the advantage.
Um... bowser is crazy easy to gimp. like I mentioned reverse nair and fair send people off at low angles. that kills bowser, plus needles? yeah...
Good Bowser's though, are well aware of the threat the FTilt lock poses, so playing extra cautious to keep Sheik away is only natural for Bowser's during this matchup. Bowser's will keep a reasonable distance and deal with Sheik from there and don't think Bowser's can't hurt you when he is not at grab range: Klaw hopped aerials (preferably Fair's) and specials (Flame Breath is most common), spaced Fair's, grounded Klaw's (unlikely), DTilt, directed FTilt's, Flame Breath, these are all more than enough to keep Sheik at bay and she really doesn't have any rock solid methods of getting in there, well timed SH aerials or a dash attack could work, but they're risky and if shielded/powershielded she is prone to getting grabbed or Fortressed, both being very effective methods of dealing damage, knocking back and getting breathing space. These moves all deal hellish amounts of damage and have frightening KO potential on some of the lighter characters, from about 90% onwards Sheik is at risk of being KO'd by many of these attacks, you cannot sponge them for extended periods of time.
I'm not saying Sheik is at some huge disadvantage, she has the ability to combo the hell out of Bowser if she can catch him off guard and punish mistakes efficiently, but breaking through the castle that is Bowser is no simple feat, especially considering that Bowser does have an answer to Sheik's common options while Sheik has no surefire method of piercing Bowser's defenses and getting the combo's going. Also, don't underestimate the Fortress, it is a deadly attack and will make you think twice before jumping right into Bowser like some bold fool. KO-ing Bowser is tough because of his weight, gimping his recovery is an option but don't be fooled, it's not something that'll happen every stock; the recovery, though predictable as it may be, can cut through most aerials if the right hitboxes connect, if you want to easily gimp it you'll have to hit the sides or underneath and Bowser's like to cover that weakness as best as they can, of course this does make edgeguarding a brighter possibility, though that does depend a little on the stage.
It's not a rare scene that a Bowser will powershield his way through needles and get within jab range, then there's Fair and Flame Breath and Fortress. You may not believe it but these are all simple, viable methods of reaching and damaging. You cannot just say "get Bowser in the air and its all hunky dory", Keeping him in the air isn't as simple as you might think, and don't for a second think that his DownB is the only means of reaching the floor because it's totally unsafe and good Bowser's wont do the predictable.
You can tell Sheik's to stay out of grab range but that's a lot easier said than done, Sheik cannot cause problems for Bowser without being dangerously close and at risk of getting grabbed and Fortressed. Speed is of little issue here, Bowser has one of the best jabs in the game and one jab is all it takes for a setup. Sheik's shouldn't be aggressive, they should be cautious, obviously, but if you think Bowser has no way of approaching Sheik but in a reversed situation it's the complete opposite then you clearly know nothing about Bowser. Don't act like the needles completely ruin Bowser, powershielding works fine and so does jumping over it.Also, explain how Bowser is so crazy easy to gimp, and exactly how Sheik is supposed to get him into such a position without taking serious risks and damage herself. You don't seem to know much about this matchup and appear to be just theorizing. Bowser is a hell of a lot more versatile than you say; You're simply underestimating his abilities which is just as well because that's what everybody else does.
Counter Pick: Rainbow Cruise because it's easy to gimp Bowser.Needles force an approach. Of course you can just say to power shield every needle, but forcing the Bowser to do something means it can leave gaps. Bowser's Up-B reduces combo potential, so Sheik just needs to dart in, get a few hits in and try and get him in the air. If it works, feel free to juggle and gimp as you please. If it doesn't, back off and try again.
Needles are a solid projectile, so just mixing up the timings of needles, maybe throwing some out of a full hop if Bowser is about to reach the right position to catch him off guard and eventually Mistakes will be made. That said, Bowser will seriously punish any mistakes, making what I think would be a very good match to play.
Ban: Battle Field because Bowser can up tilt and up smash through the platform.
Character # 23:
[Mario, Princess, and Toad ask Luigi to jump a gorge]
Luigi: I can't! Uh, I'm having a baby!
Luigi: [fakes labor pains]
[the rest of the group stare at Luigi incredulously, then, offscreen, push Luigi onscreen]
Luigi: [defeated] Well, it was worth a try.
Ratio: 60/40 Luigi
Luigi can NOT kill you with his jab > up B if you react in time. Sheik is able to shield or jab in time before Luigi can hit with the up B.
Forward smash is devastating. Especially if he tilts it up, which can kill you at around 70% I believe. Maybe even earlier.
Luigi's recovery is very predictable. They will usually side b until they either get too low or get close enough to the ledge. They will jump and down B to get a lot of hight, then up b to the stage if that wasn't enough. Sheik should be able to hit Luigi back out after his side b, but be VERY careful because a misfire kills extremely early.
luigi has some pretty gigantic priority and some projectiles and some completely absurd kill moves while your kill moves wont be able to kill him until way later I would say luigi has a pretty solid advantage on sheik. To win this match exploit luigis recovery by using shieks excellent gimping tools, another thing to watch out for is luigis Fsmash cant really be punished and he can even cover it with Dsmash if u try to roll behind him.
One thing that isn't used too much, but you got to watch out for, is that Luigi can walk then down smash while still sliding.
If you are going to switch to Zelda for the kill, be careful because Luigi can do his jab > up B on Zelda guaranteed.
The only thing's that let luigi break the jab/tilt combos early are nair/upB. The thing about nair though, is that as sheik you can avoid it in the middle of a f-tilt combo by making sure to never try to follow after luigi is knocked too far. Only go for the tilt combo's like 0-60 or so. Also the luigi nair is very easy to bait by either throwing out a tilt and then buffering a shield or to start rapid jabs and also buffer a power shield. It works pretty much every time for me.
DownB can be shielded easily and punished afterwards if they finish near you. Also his fireball's hit boxes are kind of disjointed and can be difficult to powershield if you don't know the timing exactly.
Otherwise luigi is decently easy to gimp using sheik's aerials, also very safe to approach against with nair. If luigi starts doing retreating bair's to nair's approach from below and nair, if he plays the ground, avoid any fireballs and nair from above. I believe sheik's nair out prioritizes luigi's ground options other than F-smash/Charged u-smash. Also if luigi doesn't approach, needles stop everything except fireballs, that includes lugi's downB.
Bottom line, luigi has some very fast early killing high priority moves, but has little range, and almost no run speed. So it comes down to how good the sheik is at baiting and how good the luigi player is at getting close.
Any sheik experienced in jab/tilt combo's if you just experiment a little bit, you will discover which ones you can buffer properly to land on luigi. The important thing is to never chase directly into him after a tilt after like 60% because it will be an easy nair, though again this is easy to bait.
Run away. Needles.
Spaced bair beats everything luigi has in the air.
pivot grab his approaches, they aren't hard to read.
And again... for such an aerial character you should be ****** hard with needles
Counter Pick: Anywhere the Sheik feels comfortable on.
Ban: Anything with a low ceiling.
Character # 24:
Ratio: 55/45 Peach
Play patiently. Running in guns-a-blazing is not a good idea. Needles spam is pretty useless, cause of the float. It's best to save up 1 storm and just hol dit for when you know it will hit. As for killing, Peach has the same problem Sheik does. Stay away from fresh Nairs, Fairs [though it is doubtful this won't be used a lot], Forward Smashes [This one really shouldn't be a threat. It's got a good amount of start-up], and Up-Smashes. Watch out for dash-attack. It's got disjointed hit boxes, but has more than enough ending lag for punishment. F-tilt, though seldom used has deceptive range, and at higher percents can kill.
Peach's main approach will be float > aerial. If you get hit with her dair while she is floating, she will follow up with two up airs at low %'s. Peach's main kill move will probably be her fair. So if you see her floating, watch out. Also, i believe all of Peach's aerials auto cancel, so she will most likely follow up her aerials with a jab or a grab.
Playing against Peach as Sheik really is a test of patience.
Some thing from the Peach boards:
Did you know?
-Shiek cannot F Tilt lock Peach. If Shiek tries to do this, Peach can Nair out of it
-Peach has a chaingrab on Shiek using her Down Throw up to about 26% which can be finished off with an F Tilt
Basically, if she dairs u from on top of ur shield, u can nair her. its good.
use timing fairs when u know shes not gonna do something in her float.
autocancel uairs beneath her are too good
go for vanish ko's, its safe usually against peach, cuz when she tries to run and grab u after u vanish u can usually roll away
use zelda to ko her
dont spam dins fire, its useless, whole duration of peach's nair beats it
just do ur basic usmash/fsmash correctly, but dont be hasty
You have to space yourself carefully, and not get overly aggressive with the pressure game. Peach can punish you if you try to follow up most of your attacks. Usually what I do is go for one attack, then approach cautiously and wait to see what she will do before I follow up.
Peach's ledge guard doesn't own sheik as badly as many other characters do. Peach on the other hand while recovering can be gimped by sheik.
most peach's hover at perfect height to be u-smashed/dacus. they have almost no answer to needles other than change heights aka float and then sheik's aerials can win the camp game.
things to watch out for that peach does have, her jabs come out very fast especially when following an aerial, and also she can do the low percentage down throw chain grab i believe, unless i just suck at DI.
But the second you read the peaches game and know what to look for you can just do the proper spacing to avoid jabs out of her aerials and not get baited in to her fairs, there is very little the peach can do.
Also on one final note i've started to adopt this style where, in between throwing out attacks i will crawl across the ground either forward or backward then quickly jump aerial, this gives you the advantage in this match up as well, because it is very difficult for peach to hit you when you are at this angle unless she is point blank on you, and you have the advantage at this point. This strategy also works really well vs marth, because only a perfectly spaced fair aimed at getting you off the ground (or nair) will hit you while your down there, otherwise they have to approach from the ground giving you the heads up as to what they are about to do.
I'd say the match up is 55/45 sheik, 60/40 at best. Almost a toss up, but slightly in sheiks favor.
Also, Peach can buffer the chaingrab to last to 40% to filt if you get a grab on sheik at 0% because then it stales the down throw. If you get a grab past 20% you can't chaingrab sheik.
DACUS is good against Peach's float though.
If you can bait a toad with needles or after catching her turnips or something, DACUS goes straight through toad even while he's shooting spores and hits peach in the back of the head with the side hit, potentially KOing her.
Another thing I find useful is that if you do happen to edgeguard her UpB from below the stage using your tether and invincibility frames, stay on the edge until she hits oyu with her umbrella. At this point shes too low to grab the ledge.
You can not play gay on Peach. If you wanna camp with needs, the only thing that goes is we can't camp you, which Peach really does not need to. I can just float to a certain distance towards you to get you to knock off the needles or it is a free hit for me. And shooting needles in the air does down, so you are not stopping me from getting close.
Spacing and her pressure game mess up shiek so bad. She can't really get inside well and will be hard to break free. The only way to do that is a well timed ducas. but i usually expect that when a shiek is at distance so I am usually aware of it and be careful when in the air. Peach is not beating that move in the air. So just incase I see it coming, I would just ground Float to a timed Fair, Nair, Bair. or just jab it.
Peach can be a real ***** to sheik off stage. Played correct, I can force shiek where to go on the stage. The stage or ledge. I can also take a turnip, Go out, hit you and grab the edge. Which would mostly likely force you to get on the stage. So I just let go of the ledge, jump on and finish you off or gab you and send you back out. Or jump from the ledge and Fair you back out. if not the stage, you next option would be the ledge. Which you won't have enough distance to grab it. or I ledge hop and grab it again to gain invisibility frames. And then you die. I should rate the match 60:40 Peach cause of this.
Peach main approach won't be floating air attacks. This depends on who you are playing. I don't float alot on Shiek. She is quick and has that ducas. So I mostly short hop space moves to jab combos to w/e And glide toss when I can. Peach can beat sheik without needing to float much.
Edgeguaring her, no that is not easy for you. The only move Sheik has with Range is her Bair, and that moves stays out for a while and it is not angled straight. Which is good or Peach if you are a thinker and have smart recovery, I can recover high enough where shiek can't touch me.
overall, peach has a better recovery and a little bit more priority. that gives her the slight edge.
Besides fair, aerial startup is comparable for both characters, and Peach's have better range/disjoint. Frankly I hate going air-to-air against Peach because if I go for it too late then my aerial pretty much auto-loses. If you absolutely have to play this way, react quickly, and if you don't catch Peach quickly enough then get the hell away until you can try again.
Counter Pick: Final Destination
Ban: Jungle Japes and stages with low ceilings.
Character # 25:
"Ike: I haven't had a chance to train today. I try to swing a sword everyday, even if it's just for a little while. It helps me focus and keeps me calm. Plus, it's good practice. Haaaa! Kyaaaaa!" - Ike, Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance
Ratio: 60/40 Sheik
Fear his jab game.
Other than that, he is pretty slow, and easy to camp. Just make sure you are familiar with the hitboxes for his moves, as the Fsmash hitting above and behind has caught me out a few times.
Also, easy to gimp. Just don't let yourself get spiked by not using the invincibility frames properly if he needs to upB.
I find that Sheik just has such a great speed advantage that most of his options are useless unless the Sheik seriously messes up. That said, Ike has a good, fast Bair and probably the best jab game in the game. They will rack some serious damage on quickly if you keep getting hit by it, and they do not need much to put you in kill percentages.
Ike can jab cancel > bair, which can kill. Watch out for his forward air since it has a huge hit box (can hit under him) with small landing lag. Also, his neutral air stays out for a long time. If Ike tries to sweet spot the edge with his side B (or just barely get over it), then you can jump out in front of him. This will cause you to get it, but he will fall to his doom. If you are trying to grab the ledge without using the chain, watch out for his down tilt because it spikes. Also, be careful when trying to air dodge past Ike's up air because it stays out for a LONG time and he can fast fall with you.
One more thing, you can tilt lock Ike pretty well.
you need to find the open spots against ike. i know he has a lot of range and priority over everything you do, but sheik can easily find those times between attacks to approach. many times, sheik can just run up and grab him if he's not spacing right. this matchup comes down to ike's spacing and sheik's approach. of course, sheik has the option to camp him as well since needles shut down his quick draw and walk up jab approaches.
just watch out for sh nair and full jump fairs/nairs.
yeah a good ike is good. A decent ppresure game with his aerials and their disjointedness can be a problem for an aggressive sheik. and his range and speed on jab is nothing to take lightly, jabs rack up so much damage and can lead into other things as well.
Seriously space well and abuse needles, all of his approaches (which aren't bad) can be wreck by well timed needles. be patient and wait for kill options don't force them, ike can kill so low it isn't worth taking a little bit of damage for [/i]maybes.
You should be winning, but you can't take ike lightly... similar to how you can't take fox lightly..........
Ike's jab eats through pretty much any hope of an approach, and if you play one that repeatedly cancels the first jab, into another jab you realize making the first attack is not an option. Needles only do so much, until he is close enough to bring the pain. All of his hits hurt, and his jab leads into hits that hurt.
I think all of you guys underestimate what Ike can do, and in a match, that could be your downfall.
his range and damage out puts in the air. and jab alone on the ground make him a really strong character. but slower movement and those same moves make it very easy to punish him just for jumping.
I may be a little off, but sheik should really be the one controlling the pase of the match.
Just like <3 said, make sure not to let Ike control the flow of the match. You can camp with needles, but when Ike gets close get ready for fairs/nairs/jabs and random ftilts (really strong).
Counter Pick: Final Destination because it's easier to needle camp. Rainbow Cruise because it's easier to gimp Ike.I think the main problem for people who fight against ike is that they think they can punish ike after he done something like fair and nair. When I fought Ike the first time, I would shield the move then run in to attack but he just jab me instantly. I was like dang Ike is too good
So learn what can be punish and such then you can slowly start to beat Ike easily. Dash attack imo is the key in this match up. It's our fastest move from running and cover a lot of range. You can shield a fair and then dash attack them. Also, learn how Ike baits a kill. They either charge smash when u're on the edge or wait for an air dodge to up smash you. Knowing these things u can avoid them successfully. He's also slow so run around him and spam needles to annoy him.
Ban: Battlefield because Ike can pester you with aerials from underneath platforms. Halberd because of the low ceiling.
Character # 26:
*Will post info later*
Character # 27:
"Last night there was a solitaire tournament...I lost my shirt..." -Guy in Monotoli Tower, Earthbound
*Will post info later*
Character # 28:
"I wish Luigi were here, I could blame him!" - Mario
*Will post info later...*
Character # 29:
*Will post info later*
Character # 30:
*Will post info later*
Character # 31:
*Will post info later*
Character # 32:
"Talk about low-budget flights! No food or movies? I'm outta here! I like running better!" - Sonic, Sonic Adventure 2 Battle
*Will post info later*
Character # 33:
"Do not betray my expectations" Ganondorf, LoZ Wind Waker
*Will post info later*
Character # 34:
"A sword wields no strength unless the hand that holds it has courage. You may be destined to become the hero of legend...but your current power would disgrace the proud green of the hero's tunic you wear. You must use your courage to seek power...and find it you must. Only then will you become the hero for whom this world despairs." Hero's Shade, LoZ Twilight Princess
*Will post info later*
Character # 35:
*Will post info later*
If any of you have any pictures I could use for these characters or any comments/tips/corrections for the thread, just PM me.