Q&A Sheik Strategy & QnA

[Kaffei]

utilt for the kill instead of u-smash? If u-tilt is killing you, then anything will kill you, so that person is making a mistake by spamming u-tilt ha.

Dash dance grab it. Dash dance boost grab it. Dash dance dash attack it if >30ish. Space fairs, bairs. Same way you would punish anyone doing in place moves.

Well, it's when I'm at really high % and I'm in my shield and he spaced it so i can't shield grab it (Is it shield grabable?)

 

[soap]

So you mean to tell me that, rather than waveland onto the lower platforms on Yoshi's, I should simply short hop onto them and I'll get lagless landings into whatever I want? @_@

only if you jump from the flat part!

 

[SonuvaBeach]

Well, it's when I'm at really high % and I'm in my shield and he spaced it so i can't shield grab it (Is it shield grabable?)

Wavedash out of shield away immediately after would be your safest bet. Or roll, but a quick fox will punish that.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I like down tilt, needle --> grab, and spaced bair.

Standard dash dance options are also pretty good. If he's doing it on your shield, don't WD to punish. WD to get space back and then do... stuff.

You can't directly punish up tilt spam by WD OOS anyway (not enough time).

 

[Kaffei]

Thank you KK =D

 

[bubbaking]

I like down tilt, needle --> grab, and spaced bair.

Oh man, for a second I thought you were suggesting that I do ALL of that in one sequence. :O

 

[MegaRobMan]

Is there a specific guide for wavedashing with sheik, like how to actually perform it and all of her options OOS wavedashing.

I finally feel as if I have a good enough understanding of the super basic things like non-advanced spacing, bair wall camping, b-reverse needle-bair/fair, wall techs, landing zeldas back air, shffl (which is so hard with sheik, lol) etc...

Anything else I am missing? Trying to not get too embarrassed at SMYM. I do relatively well in state (top 5) and in my sub region (especially in doubles, I money in that), and make it out of pools when I travel, but bottom out super hard afterwards.

I've been playing the game since it came out and been "maining" sheik for 1v1 the games entire lifespan, it's just I've finally gotten into the competitve scene over the last few years and I find it's better to learn the game is played before you try and get too fancy and focus too much on the wrong tech skill.

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=6131998&postcount=1 is the best I can find.

 

[soap]

If you are really good at tech chasing and edgeguarding (punishing), that covers most of it.

How you land your hits/grabs varies with opponents and playstyles as well as your own style. Just play as much as you possibly can with as many different people to get better.

to practice by yourself just use visualization of an opponent coming at you and try to think of different ways you would evade and counterattack, and just work on moving fluidly between attacks into spacing.

 

[bubbaking]

Also, figure out a combo (even though, they usually just make up themselves) that pretty much takes a fastfaller from around 30% to death, or at least sends them pretty far offstage. You've probably got that part down already.

 

[L__]

does anyone know why you fall from stuff you normally wouldn't when charging a smash attack?

e.g. marth falling from shine when charging fsmash

 

[ShroudedOne]

When charging a smash attack, you actually get a little bit lighter, in terms of weight. (I know, right? This game is so ****ing weird!) It's enough of a weight difference to make Marth fall over from shine, or something like that.

 

[MegaRobMan]

Also, figure out a combo (even though, they usually just make up themselves) that pretty much takes a fastfaller from around 30% to death, or at least sends them pretty far offstage. You've probably got that part down already.

lol falco is the bane of my existance, I usually just try and PS lazers into grab the entire match unless I'm on DL then I just run and bair.

thanks for the help guys!

 

[gm jack]

While PS -> stuff is good, don't rely on it, because PS can be baited and punished like anything else provided the falco knows how to punish excessive PSing.

 

[Nedved]

PS can be predictable, and being predictable is bad. A friend on mine rely only on his PS abilities and i just have to do a blank laser to grab him every time.
But sheik has a lot of tools to avoid laser. Crouch, SH, WD OOS, ...

 

[KirbyKaze]

Melee stream for local Canadian tournament ft. KirbyKaze, Idea, Weon-X, Unknown522, Riddlebox, TastyGoldfish, and more!

http://www.twitch.tv/eschamptv

 

[NewJerusalem]

Platforms are good help against lasers since Falco has to get on one to shoot you.

The con is, you're above Falco. His moves are well suited to hit someone on platforms.

 

[bubbaking]

Yes, platforms are good against Falco, but you shouldn't be staying on them long enough for Falco to punish you severely, and you shouldn't be using them predictably. You waveland on, then you quickly run off and bair, things like that. If you do the same thing each time, though, they'll just preemptively stuff you.

 

[Kaffei]

Thank god Falco's uair is not Fox's uair t.t

 

[gm jack]

It's not so much the Uair as Sheik's lack of a good move to hit below her.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Fall through platform --> Fair

Run off platform --> Fair / Bair

WD / WL off platform --> Fair / Bair

Are very good vs Falco when used properly

 

[omgwtfToph]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQ-0mBIklVA

Hey guys check out this tite video of my homie Flash, a Sheik from Tokyo who used to be kinda sorta good and has recently elevated to pretty godlike levels

007 (in spite of Flash destroying him in this video) is a good player who usually goes by Mars lolz.

 

[Kaffei]

Woooooooow that Sheik is cool

 

[KirbyKaze]

Man, my vs Marth game ****ing sucks rofl.

I don't play Sheik like she's a good character when it's appropriate to. This needs to change.

 

[Kaffei]

Man, my vs Marth game ****ing sucks rofl.

I don't play Sheik like she's a good character when it's appropriate to. This needs to change.

What do u mean o.o
What are u doing wrong?

 

[KirbyKaze]

I'm not sure, but I watched Tope vs low tiers today and I thought about how he's calling the shots, making the opponent play around him, and constantly being a gigantic **** made of disjointed bull****. M2K is the same way. All the Sheiks that beat low tier players are like that. I did best vs Vudujin when I forced him to play around my BS rather than react to his.

In my effort to achieve a better defense vs top tiers that force me to play it, I think I've reached an undesirable extreme vs bad characters (using the word 'bad' loosely) where I respect them too much and try to counter everything they do. Rather than bullying them with intelligent top tier gayness. It's dreadful, really.

So I'm not sure what I have to do specifically but I think I need to strive to be more of an ******* when I play her against significantly weaker characters.

Balance is, of course, everything. And right now I'm hanging on the edge because I'd teetered off too far to one side :/

 

[Kaffei]

Hmm.. So basically, you're saying that Sheik should be played defensively, then when she gets a hit, she should destroy them into pieces? Is that right

 

[KirbyKaze]

I don't know fully what I need to do and what Sheik needs to do. Cactuar's told me that smart pressure ***** Falcon harder than anything else (with Sheik) and I'm starting to think it's probably good against a lot of the lower tiered characters because they're dependent on <something> to set up the conditions where they can excel in. Like Samus and her missiles, etc.

I don't think I'm going to figure this out in a night. This will require a lot of experimentation.

 

[Kaffei]

Ohh ok. Well, whenever you come up with something, let us know! I love reading your posts =D

 

[omgwtfToph]

I feel like I know exactly what you're talking about and playing Fox brings to light a lot of the same issues, albeit in probably a simpler way (because disrespecting bad characters with Fox often boils down to "use laser and bair more").

 

[KirbyKaze]

Fox vs bad characters has a lot of stuff that actually invalidates their good traits entirely.

Sheik usually just ***** them in footsies and death combos them. Which is about as good, but it means I need to learn more about how to be a ******* in footsies.

 

[soap]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQ-0mBIklVA

Hey guys check out this tite video of my homie Flash, a Sheik from Tokyo who used to be kinda sorta good and has recently elevated to pretty godlike levels

007 (in spite of Flash destroying him in this video) is a good player who usually goes by Mars lolz.

I'm glad the other guy didn't get double 4 stocked

This sheik is hella crispy tho. His opponent wasn't putting up a great fight, but the sheik's movements, combos, and just general execution was spot on.

Nice to see some japanese melee too

 

[omgwtfToph]

CRISPEHHHhhhh

 

[bubbaking]

I don't know fully what I need to do and what Sheik needs to do. Cactuar's told me that smart pressure ***** Falcon harder than anything else (with Sheik) and I'm starting to think it's probably good against a lot of the lower tiered characters because they're dependent on <something> to set up the conditions where they can excel in. Like Samus and her missiles, etc.

I don't think I'm going to figure this out in a night. This will require a lot of experimentation.

Obviously, you know more about all the MUs than I do, but I feel like Sheik needs to abuse the part of her wholly incredible moveset that completely destroys that character. For instance, against Samus, she should grab waaaaay more. I've seen a lot of Sheiks respect Samus way too much. Samus's ftilt is kinda safe and utilt is safe if it hits your shield, but WD oos>grab will probably punish ftilt and if not, WD oos towards Samus messes completely with her spacing. Samus's utilt can probably be grabbed out of its startup frames. Like, a meta filled with grabs isn't so appealing to me, but I really think that Sheik can take heavy advantage of chars' weaknesses cuz of her amazingly diverse and good moveset.

 

[Cactuar]

Just slap that *****. In the face.

 

[bubbaking]

There's a guy over here at SBU who likes to call Sheik's fair the "Buddhist Slap". XD

 

[joejoe22802]

I've hit a huge plateau. Anyone have some good short term goals you guys try to achieve during matches? Or any goals or thoughts for an aspiring player?

 

[omgwtfToph]

Can I ask a question that I'm sure has been asked several times before?

How does Sheik go about dealing with campy refuse-to-approach Fox? The matchup seems much more difficult than aggressive Foxes.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Do any of:

a) Camp back
b) Bait them with hard-to-punish moves & movement
c) Corner them and then go to "b" or look for the panic approach and counter it with range

If they don't know about her lunge range and/or like to laser a lot, boost grabbing and/or dash attacking their lasers isn't a bad idea either. Look for habits in their movement camp.

 

[omgwtfToph]

THANKS KK

Caps.

 

[bubbaking]

Yes, in all honesty, good defensive Foxes are generally harder than aggressive ones. Don't know what to say about campy ones, though...

I've hit a huge plateau. Anyone have some good short term goals you guys try to achieve during matches? Or any goals or thoughts for an aspiring player?

Short term goals? Well, I try to implement things I've learned and things I've heard KK talk about. Before and after the match, I think about tactics I use all the time and tactics I never use. This tends to help my mixup game. Never believe that you've hit a true 'plateau'. Continue to play against people better than you and force yourself to look at matches in a new light if you just can't seem to advance using a certain strategy. One thing Duck told me at Apex was that aspiring players should have analytical people analyze and critique them while they're playing. On top of that, if you record your matches, review them and notice in detail the circumstances that led to each of your deaths. I'm not saying to notice exactly how you died, but instead take note of influencing factors, such as traps your opponent placed you in and bad decisions you made that ultimately resulted in a lost stock.