Q&A Sheik Strategy & QnA

[KirbyKaze]

That's because it is only really good in a general sense with Sheik.

 

[Kaffei]

oh lol
Sheik

 

[bubbaking]

After all, she's one with the whole tech chase destruction metagame. Btw, does a boost grab put Sheik into her dash grab animation or her standing grab animation?

 

[Kaffei]

After all, she's one with the whole tech chase destruction metagame. Btw, does a boost grab put Sheik into her dash grab animation or her standing grab animation?

dash grab
10dash grabs

 

[Luma]

kirby gets a fire grab, how is that not usefull =D
and confusing people with docs boots grab is hilarious "wtf did you just do?"
=D

 

[bubbaking]

Fire grab? Does it actually get a fire hitbox and everything? :-O

 

[Jolteon]

no but it sets his feet on fire. :D

 

[Crooked Crow]

David, I normally don't post here, but we played a bracket set not too long ago where you ***** me.

1. What am I doing wrong? I nitpick smaller details too much, and sometimes miss the bigger picture. Is there a noticeable number of habits I have, that you found easy to exploit? Perhaps I missed too many windows and opportunities?

2. I was hoping you could seriously train me at the next smashfest or something, give me some starting points on how to improve my game? I feel as if I have reached a pseudo mental block and it's pissing me off, simply speaking.

If you host casuals at your house again or whatever, I would really like to get some games in. Thanks.

 

[lord karn]

Is it commonly known that if you do an uair right after you short hop you can use your second jump before you land (kind of like cf's bair)? I was messing around with that earlier, and apparently sheik doesn't land on the lower platforms on yoshi's when she does it instantly (though she does when you delay it a little, which seems weird to me). You can double uair to pressure or uair --> waveland grab/shield. Seems a lot better than utilt pressuring on yoshi's, but it probably has applications on other levels, too. If you get a hit with the first uair, in a lot of situations you can do uair --> second jump uair --> fair/bair, which seems pretty legit.

 

[KirbyKaze]

David, I normally don't post here, but we played a bracket set not too long ago where you ***** me.

1. What am I doing wrong? I nitpick smaller details too much, and sometimes miss the bigger picture. Is there a noticeable number of habits I have, that you found easy to exploit? Perhaps I missed too many windows and opportunities?

2. I was hoping you could seriously train me at the next smashfest or something, give me some starting points on how to improve my game? I feel as if I have reached a pseudo mental block and it's pissing me off, simply speaking.

If you host casuals at your house again or whatever, I would really like to get some games in. Thanks.

Most important part of Sheik in neutral is denying the opponent their best approach. The next most important is punishing hard.

I'd need to play you to give a real critique but your punishes were not consistent. Nor was your spacing to protect yourself from my fairs. Fair is the most important thing to beat in Sheik ditto because it's her safest move; if you can't d-tilt, dd dash attack, or beat it via initiative then you're going to lose that one every time.

Karn, YS has a lot of jump tricksies. Watch soap's video on it. It's ****.

 

[Strong Badam]

I can't namesearch
Fox's dair just has enough KB to where even if CC'd it links into shine cuz Shine is frame 1.

 

[bubbaking]

So, u get daired=u get shined=u get killed in one of many ways that foxes illustriously come up with.

 

[Kaffei]

Most important part of Sheik in neutral is denying the opponent their best approach. The next most important is punishing hard.

For some reason, this right here is the best advice I've ever heard in a while and got me thinking about stuff
Ty KK

 

[gm jack]

I can't namesearch
Fox's dair just has enough KB to where even if CC'd it links into shine cuz Shine is frame 1.

Luckily, it can be SDIed moderately easily (or at least gives you a chance to go for it), so them catching you with a DI doesn't guarantee them a combo, and can get them punished if they shine out of habit after you SDI out the dair early.

 

[KirbyKaze]

For some reason, this right here is the best advice I've ever heard in a while and got me thinking about stuff
Ty KK

No problem

 

[bubbaking]

Is it commonly known that if you do an uair right after you short hop you can use your second jump before you land (kind of like cf's bair)? I was messing around with that earlier, and apparently sheik doesn't land on the lower platforms on yoshi's when she does it instantly (though she does when you delay it a little, which seems weird to me). You can double uair to pressure or uair --> waveland grab/shield. Seems a lot better than utilt pressuring on yoshi's, but it probably has applications on other levels, too. If you get a hit with the first uair, in a lot of situations you can do uair --> second jump uair --> fair/bair, which seems pretty legit.

Well, I wouldn't say it's a LOT better than utilt pressuring. To me, utilt pressuring is nice cuz you can remain grounded and relatively out of their punishment zone while maintaining the threat of a combo with your presence. You can then act to punish whatever they do oos from an advantageous position. If they predict you jumping up to pressured them w/ uair, you can be the one getting punished before your second uair comes out. As a Samus player, the need for me to remain grounded is great, and this might not apply so much to Sheik's game, but I still think it's something to keep in mind.

Edit: KK, do you possibly have the link for soap's vid? That would be pretty nice to see.

 

[KirbyKaze]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttRBjxW_rlQ

 

[bubbaking]

Thank you! That was some really good needle stuff. @_@ Nice beatboxing, too.

 

[Kaffei]

KK, I have a question about Needles.. Is it worth it to throw fully charge needles onto the ground near the edge so when like spacies approach with nair/dair they hit the neeldes & fk up their L cancel to grab them ( u know how needles stay stuck on the ground then poof)

 

[KirbyKaze]

I usually do that if I have a few needles charged, but not a full set. Mostly because full needles are really for comboing directly into grab (which adds a huge threat when you SH approach because her ability to zone with needles becomes crazy ridiculous) or buffing her gimping game (sometimes the full set counters shine stalls just for being... itself). That said, I don't believe in absolutes (in these sorts of questions) and I have tossed a full set for the potential hitlag trap if I thought I was gonna be on defense mainly (see: me vs DaShizWiz). I've done it vs hit & run playstyles too, just because that sort of play gives me more chances to charge anyway. So use your best judgment.

I do that trap a lot vs the pro Canadian Foxes because they're a very aggressive breed.

 

[stelzig]

I remember seeing that needle vid before, but watching it still inspired me to go practice some more needle stuff so thanks for the link

 

[lord karn]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttRBjxW_rlQ

Hmmm, he doesn't do what I was talking about, but some of that needle stuff is really awesome. I'll have to try some of that. Also, scar jumping with sheik looks really cool.

I can see utilt potentially being better because it keeps you below them and out of threat range. I think the uair to double jump thing is really useful when you can shield poke or expect a jump. Also, running uair to jump and waveland onto platform out of range seems really good.

 

[crawlshots]

When jiggs gets all cozy next to your shield and crouches, trying to get you to grab and miss so she can rest, is it a good option to upsmash out of shield?

 

[bubbaking]

Hmmm, he doesn't do what I was talking about, but some of that needle stuff is really awesome. I'll have to try some of that. Also, scar jumping with sheik looks really cool.

What's scar jumping? :/

When jiggs gets all cozy next to your shield and crouches, trying to get you to grab and miss so she can rest, is it a good option to upsmash out of shield?

Jiggs can CC usmash at low %'s. Doing that is simply allowing her to accomplish her original goal. You might just wanna try WD oos away for the time being. Of course, KK is the Jiggs expert. Let's see what he has to say.

 

[lord karn]

What's scar jumping? :/



Jiggs can CC usmash at low %'s. Doing that is simply allowing her to accomplish her original goal. You might just wanna try WD oos away for the time being. Of course, KK is the Jiggs expert. Let's see what he has to say.

It's when you let go of the ledge, wall jump, and then double jump back onto the stage immediately (most likely with an aerial). It's easiest to do if you let go with the cstick, so that you don't accidentally drift too far away from the wall to wall jump.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Oh, the scar jump. I have never had any success with that thing as Sheik. I think it may have something to do with her body box / aerial mobility combination but I really have no clue...

 

[soap]

u can sh uair and double jump? wtf really? I gotta try this.

As far as platform pressure, utilt and uair are useful for different situations. For example I wouldn't uair into a spacie at low percent cuz it won't combo into anything an you may get CC shined by falco into one of his combos.

delaying a short hop auto cancel fair is a staple in my platform shield pressure. You can follow it up real quick with something like an uair or utilt etc.

Nice to pop in here and see creativity in general tho. My new platform gimmicks nowadays use alot of short hop no impact landing on Yoshis/Pokemon Stadium into whatever.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Oh, the scar jump. I have never had any success with that thing as Sheik. I think it may have something to do with her body box / aerial mobility combination but I really have no clue...

What aerial mobility?

Smooth Criminal

 

[lord karn]

Oh, the scar jump. I have never had any success with that thing as Sheik. I think it may have something to do with her body box / aerial mobility combination but I really have no clue...

I was messing around with it on Yoshi's earlier today. I couldn't get the wall jump instantly, but it still seemed somewhat useful even though you get it a little later after you let go of the edge. Jumping back onto the stage with a bair seems like it could be pretty good in some situations, because the hitbox is so big.

And yeah, you can double jump after an uair. You have to do it really fast (you can do this with CF's uair and bair as well, which I never see anyone do). It's hard to do consistently, but it seems to have a lot of applications. It makes comboing after an uair really ****. Also, you could run under a platform and short hop uair. With the momentum from running, the hitbox stays out and so will threaten a greater distance and probably protect you from cc shine, and then you can double jump waveland on the platform and be ready to grab/aerial.

 

[soap]

I do those falcon ones alot actually

I have alot of stuff I wanna test now, with no gamecube.

 

[Nedved]

. Also, you could run under a platform and short hop uair. With the momentum from running, the hitbox stays out and so will threaten a greater distance and probably protect you from cc shine, and then you can double jump waveland on the platform and be ready to grab/aerial.

I will absolutely try it. It could be really cool. :D

 

[Kaffei]

Thanks KK =)

 

[stelzig]

Just found out that level6 fox really likes SH Dairing when you dash into his face, so playing that guy might be useful if you wanna practice SDing his Dair. You can even run up with a shield and practice shield DI on it if you want. I also think level 6 is the best level for techchasing, but all CPUs are bad at teching (sadly) so

 

[bubbaking]

Nice to pop in here and see creativity in general tho. My new platform gimmicks nowadays use alot of short hop no impact landing on Yoshis/Pokemon Stadium into whatever.

"No impact landing"? Can you please excuse my lack of knowledge and elaborate on the meaning of that phrase there?

Btw, what is everyone's opinion on Sheik's falling uair? Is it good? Is it bad? Is it reasonable to run off a platform w/ it and just throw it out to try to send an opponent skyward for potential comboing?

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Btw, what is everyone's opinion on Sheik's falling uair? Is it good? Is it bad? Is it reasonable to run off a platform w/ it and just throw it out to try to send an opponent skyward for potential comboing?

I use it to set up f-air or f-air strings while they're on the stage. On some characters you can use it to actually kill vertically (high percentages).

Beyond that...? *shrugs.*

Smooth Criminal

 

[soap]

"No impact landing"? Can you please excuse my lack of knowledge and elaborate on the meaning of that phrase there?

Btw, what is everyone's opinion on Sheik's falling uair? Is it good? Is it bad? Is it reasonable to run off a platform w/ it and just throw it out to try to send an opponent skyward for potential comboing?

the height from her short hop on those platforms makes here land perfectly without any downward movement, so there is no natural landing lag that you usually get from landing ~4 frames

so it is even quicker than wavelanding for following up into a move

I use it quite a bit to space out bairs. Instead of fighting the platforms and trying to stay under them with needle cancels or early aerials, just get used to short hopping and immediately dropping back down, or walking forward slightly. Or short hop up there do a running short hop off into some retreating needles etc.

falling uairs are great, albeit situational. Use it as a launcher when you've closed in and don't have time to pull out a dair.

Or to combine both techniques, do a no impact land up to a platform right in front of someones face, then drop through with a falling uair.

 

[Kaffei]

What the heck can I do when Fox is spamming utilt for a kill? LOL ;_;

 

[bubbaking]

the height from her short hop on those platforms makes here land perfectly without any downward movement, so there is no natural landing lag that you usually get from landing ~4 frames

so it is even quicker than wavelanding for following up into a move

I use it quite a bit to space out bairs. Instead of fighting the platforms and trying to stay under them with needle cancels or early aerials, just get used to short hopping and immediately dropping back down, or walking forward slightly. Or short hop up there do a running short hop off into some retreating needles etc.

falling uairs are great, albeit situational. Use it as a launcher when you've closed in and don't have time to pull out a dair.

Or to combine both techniques, do a no impact land up to a platform right in front of someones face, then drop through with a falling uair.

So you mean to tell me that, rather than waveland onto the lower platforms on Yoshi's, I should simply short hop onto them and I'll get lagless landings into whatever I want? @_@

What the heck can I do when Fox is spamming utilt for a kill? LOL ;_;

Ummm, not sure, but can't you shieldgrab that?

 

[bubbaking]

Sorry, double post. My com's acting really wierd for some reason...or maybe it's the boards..... -_-

 

[SonuvaBeach]

What the heck can I do when Fox is spamming utilt for a kill? LOL ;_;

utilt for the kill instead of u-smash? If u-tilt is killing you, then anything will kill you, so that person is making a mistake by spamming u-tilt ha.

Dash dance grab it. Dash dance boost grab it. Dash dance dash attack it if >30ish. Space fairs, bairs. Same way you would punish anyone doing in place moves.