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Q&A Sheik Strategy & QnA

stelzig

stelzig

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 10, 2006
Messages
1,415
Location
Århus, Denmark
bubbaking said:
One thing Duck told me at Apex was that aspiring players should have analytical people analyze and critique them while they're playing.
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I have a tendency to never know what people are talking about when they question things I did a few seconds ago. Maybe that's just me though or maybe it's just because they aren't amazing players and it may not have been particularely important. If I get told to not do something specific it is different of course, but many situations being questioned i'm like "I don't even remember this situation, at least not in such detail".

If you don't do it already (which I assume you don't, because no one does), then I recommend learning to shielddrop aerials. Especially fair, but also bair, uair and nair. Nair being the hardest because you can't c-stick and can end up doing a Dair instead. Wavelanding after a shielddrop can be cool for mobility as well.

When i've mastered doing these things a little better myself, I might start adding in fastfalls as well, which is surprisingly hard to do after a shielddrop. Same goes for l-cancels (though easier), which I suppose might be part of the reason that i'm particularely recommending Fair :p
 
KirbyKaze

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Messages
17,679
Location
Spiral Mountain
Thinking during your matches is a great way to start. Makes it way easier to remember things that happened. Unless I'm in a full blown conversation with someone and looking away from the T.V., I remember most of my matches pretty well for a few hours after they happen... in pretty good detail.

I dunno if LEAN has automatically made me a better player but I've identified a bunch of bad habits I have from it that need to be eliminated just by thinking about what I'm doing that's pointless. The 5 "Whys" is actually pretty effective... also helps me avoid sinking into useless thought patterns like "Because I suck" ad infinitum.
 
stelzig

stelzig

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 10, 2006
Messages
1,415
Location
Århus, Denmark
I think it's just a little difficult to remember things you don't consider important at the moment (you might even have considered them good), which is why critique on vids/after matches are still useful because it is possible to go back and see the situatons instead of being distracted by someone trying to explain something you don't really remember. And then you might be able to increase your awareness to the situaton in the future.

At least I think people analysing others while they play, need to be very simple in the way they convey their advice.

The whole lean thing seemed like another sort of "obvious" thing that has been explained in different ways many times before. I only gave it like a minutes attention though, so maybe i'll give it a chance and read it sometime.

Edit: Sometimes I might also actually have had a reason for what is questioned, and it is usually something about why I went with a specific move or something, while I might have made like 5 other moves in the meantime... It can be hella confusing to get these questions to me, lol.
 
A

Anand

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 20, 2010
Messages
282
Location
Cambridge, MA
Kaffei said:
How do I DI Falco's Shine?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVLdAK2p2c8 3:00 See how KK went really left? Do you have to SDI it? cus when I hold a direction it doesn't work :S
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KirbyKaze said:
I'm about 99.8% sure that was just regular DI.
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This might already be obvious, Kaffei, but just in case it helps: make sure you remember to DI perpendicular to the default trajectory of shine (which isn't straight up) to get the maximum effect. I usually just DI left, right, up, or down (just out of instinct), so I personally need to work on that.
 
gm jack

gm jack

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 13, 2009
Messages
1,850
Location
Reading/Cambridge, UK
Up and slightly away from falco seems the normal trajectory.

And Kaffei, the biggest things I noticed in your falco match up tended to be the miss of those two easy gimps. You had done all the hard work forcing the falco to up B low, and then either mis judged distances or went for something with more style points than efficiency (I think run off DJ fair to edgehog would have secured the opportunity at the end much more efficiently, though using C stick to fair would have stopped you moving forwards which resulted in the fair missing).

Other than that, you may have jabbed a bit too much (too easy to CC for not enough reward) and tilted at percents low enough that the risk might not be worth the reward.
 
Kaffei

Kaffei

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 8, 2008
Messages
7,048
gm jack said:
Up and slightly away from falco seems the normal trajectory.

And Kaffei, the biggest things I noticed in your falco match up tended to be the miss of those two easy gimps. You had done all the hard work forcing the falco to up B low, and then either mis judged distances or went for something with more style points than efficiency (I think run off DJ fair to edgehog would have secured the opportunity at the end much more efficiently, though using C stick to fair would have stopped you moving forwards which resulted in the fair missing).

Other than that, you may have jabbed a bit too much (too easy to CC for not enough reward) and tilted at percents low enough that the risk might not be worth the reward.
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I keep getting scared cus I keep forgetting that Falco doesn't have a burn hitbox at the start of his up b like Fox does =(
I'll keep the jabbing & tilts in mind. Thanks!:bee:
 
ChicknMonkey

ChicknMonkey

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 26, 2011
Messages
118
Location
CT
If someone had crazy good DI (smash DI or which ever one), could they DI into each needle individually(assuming its the full charge needle storm) and "slide" across the stage to you? I mean, that would look pretty sick.
 
bubbaking

bubbaking

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 30, 2010
Messages
6,895
Location
Baldwin, NY, USA or Alexandria, VA, USA (Pick one)
joejoe22802 said:
So apparently I'm too good to critique? :cool:
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Ok, I watched your matches, and here's what I have to say. Take from it what you will:

1st game was really good so I'm gonna start with the second one. It seemed like you kinda got impatient during your second game. Maybe part of it was cuz of the early stock lead that Falco got from that edgehog, but you started chasing him around and throwing out unsafe moves when Sheik shouldn't really be doing that against Falco, especially when he's still below 20%. At 2:22, you just threw out a dsmash, hoping he'd run into it, and that kinda led to your first death. Then you continued chasing him, challenging him in situations where it seemed like he had the advantage. At 3:30, I really don't think it was worth it, changing into Zelda and dying in that form. When you came back, you changed back in a really unsafe situation (after just one fair), and you ate a very clean 65% damage for that. If I was in your shoes, I would have stayed/changed back to Sheik when I was going to die, and if I found myself in a situation where I was actually fighting a Falco as Zelda, I would have found a much safer time to switch back. Maybe after a grab (if that could ever happen against a Spacie) or something like that. One could even say that choice ultimately cost you your third stock. Also, I think you need to get better at punishing the lag of some of Falco's moves. It's kinda hard below 30%, but once you get above that threshold, you should be death-touching Falco whenever you finally get the chance to punish something that unsafe.

During your fourth game, you really kept just throwing out unsafe tilts during your first stock. Starting at 8:10, you only threw out ftilts and dtilts for the rest of your first stock and they all either hit a shield or whiffed completely. This got you comboed.....hard. Even after you recovered once, you just whiffed both dtilt and ftilt again (as well as a dash attack and a nair) instead of playing it safe and the Falco killed you.

Even with all this, you still played really nicely and won the set. Nice stuff, man! I hope my critiquing helped. Good luck in the future! ;D
 
Kaffei

Kaffei

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 8, 2008
Messages
7,048
KirbyKaze, I have a question. What can Fox do to punish this? All 3 hits of Dsmash connect on shield, so he's pushed back far enough that Fox Usmash OoS won't work, and because of the platform he can't come down with a dair oos.
 
bubbaking

bubbaking

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 30, 2010
Messages
6,895
Location
Baldwin, NY, USA or Alexandria, VA, USA (Pick one)
Sveet said:
Don't feed trolls

:phone:
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Dang it Sveet, you should know by now that I don't troll people....usually. If I ask something, it's usually cuz I'm ignorant so I didn't know what it was. I'm here to learn how to play Sheik, not to be called a troll for asking what the heck "OoT" means. :glare:

Kaffei said:
KirbyKaze, I have a question. What can Fox do to punish this? All 3 hits of Dsmash connect on shield, so he's pushed back far enough that Fox Usmash OoS won't work, and because of the platform he can't come down with a dair oos.
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I guess if it's spaced well enough, usmash OOS wouldn't work, but then, how would you get all 3 hits of dsmash to connect? Also, I don't think any platform is low enough to stop Fox from SHFFLing a dair, but maybe I'm wrong.
 
Fortress | Sveet

Fortress | Sveet

▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀
Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
16,256
Location
Northern IL
Tope making the exact post I was going to

To add: wd oos waveshine usmash is what I do. I believe you can also just sh dair oos, but its a tight hit and good players di out of it.

:phone:
 
Meljin

Meljin

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 4, 2007
Messages
96
Location
Montpellier, France.
Hello, some questions there ;

1. I am trying to focus on my gameplay and to be fully aware of what I am doing. I try to focus on one sentence at a time, and I am searching the key of winning ; should I aim "Avoid attacking when the opponent is out of range (i.e failing an attack)" or "Avoid being hit ?"

I am aware that the goal of a fighting game is to think in terms of risk & reward, and since not being it is a 100% reward, the "ultimate fighter" might reach this, but the "ultimate fighter" might also only play fox and uses shines because of its properties ; I am speaking about human capacities, and furthermore, I am more or less a middle-level player (regarding the european overall level)

I saw that the main difference between a pro and a beginner was that the pro rarely pulled an offensive move without it touching the opponent whereas the beginner triggers some weird moves totally out of range.

2. Someone on the French boards talked about the fact that KK thought that if Sheik players weren't that lazy, they would improve a lot just by being technical - Here I am, a former Fox & Falco player, which had the possibilities of doing SHDB, multishines, shines-aba at high percent...
So, I wondered... What are these move on which I could rely on ? I really want to learn new technical things since I learnt the Sheik basics ; shinostall, shfflafa & repeat, dropzone reverse neutralB - cancel - jump - neutral b - cancel ...

Thanks a lot !
 
Nedved

Nedved

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 14, 2010
Messages
115
Location
Dijon, France, Europe
Meljin said:
Hello, some questions there ;

1. I am trying to focus on my gameplay and to be fully aware of what I am doing. I try to focus on one sentence at a time, and I am searching the key of winning ; should I aim "Avoid attacking when the opponent is out of range (i.e failing an attack)" or "Avoid being hit ?"
Click to expand...


"Don't get hit !"
 
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