Q&A Sheik Strategy & QnA

[BSeeD]

Just wanted to thank KK for his advices.
Managed to win a bracket match against Cyr this week end ! (he won the set though )
Guess it's not much for you but it's a lot for me.

I cannot stress more the fact that working ur OoS options is really important in the current metagame.
Plus good defensive spacing and a little (good) needle camping. These mother****ers can rack some damage in no time.

I'm going to work on shield drops now.
As a matter of a fact, I realised how much an uair while crossing down a platform is a viable set up for a combo/finish with fair, and pretty much fast and unexpected (I play PAL).
Tekk told me yesterday I should try and implement shield drop uair in my game.
Could be seriously useful.

Any thoughts on that gentlemen ?

 

[KirbyKaze]

I want to learn shield drop stuff (Shai drop, specifically) because I think that would help me greatly vs ICs and Puff so yeah I fully endorse this.

 

[BSeeD]

Shai drop ?

 

[KirbyKaze]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLu5972oPZc

Also, good work vs Cyr. We all have our goals and milestones. I am happy to hear that you are finding my advice and assistance useful. I hope you can take what you've learned and expand upon it in a way that compliments your style effectively, and go further with it.

I post mainly to help you guys and partially so my ideas are written down. It makes me really happy when I hear you guys are improving.

 

[BSeeD]

Oh I see, that's the Rockrock stuff
Basically shield dropping while running... hard as hell

Yeah, Cyr is prolly the best Samus in Europe so I'm pretty much happy.
Plus the fact it was a legit match : he told me at the end my spacing was good in that match, and he couldn't do nothing more.
First time I hear something like that about my game.
Now that I know I can do it, I'm pretty much inclined to train solo and do whatever it takes to get better and better.

And y definately I owe this week end improvments to u.
And I thank you for that.
Sometimes it just takes someone to tell you what you already know to finally understand that thing.
So ty for ur help

 

[stelzig]

Congrats on taking a match from cyr. I hope he shows up to smashers reunion so we can find out if he really is better than eagle (assuming eagle will still use samus then, he's been playing more doc and marth recently).

I think you're usually better off just going straight for the shielddrop Fair or shielddrop Nair if you need to be fast. More likely they'll miss DI, you hit them lower, and shielddrop Uair doesn't really combo that well/at all unless you're playing against fastfallers.

The shai drop is a lot harder than shielddropping to me. It's a bit weird because everyone else tells me it is easy, but find shielddropping hard. Guess it's because I don't use the "rotate" method for shielddropping, but just push the stick straight down.

Edit: I suppose the Uair thing might be useful if the people you're trying to hit are on the ground and not on the platform.

 

[BSeeD]

Shield drop fair/nair is useful when opponent is under you right ?
Can you touch people on the same platform than u are with shield drop fair/nair ?
Coz I was more thinking about it that way.

I was thinking about shield drop uair to actually hit an opponent landing on your platform (wanting to grab or smthg).

It's a good starter for comboing ffers indeed, and can lead to fair at some % against floaties if I remember well. (someone to confirm that?)

(PAL version ofc).

KK ==> U should get a PAL version, just to try some sheananigans with PAL sheik Can be pretty fun messin around on ffers with reverse uair

 

[L__]

it's fun to shield drop fair to shield stab from below when they're on the same platform as you

if that makes any sense at all

 

[BSeeD]

Is it working often ?
Do u have to rejump fair or just fair super fast ?

 

[L__]

it depends on their shield decay

sheik's fair starts up pretty high so there's an ok amount of leniency for input

idk

experiment!

edit:

you can choose to not jump or jump it doesnt matter since people react differently to various actions

 

[BSeeD]

Okay. Am tryin this tonight.

 

[soap]

I wish I could shield drop consistently

 

[BSeeD]

That's what I'm planning to do tonight.
I'm not turning off that damn console till I do this 100% of the time.

 

[stelzig]

Shield drop fair/nair is useful when opponent is under you right ?
Can you touch people on the same platform than u are with shield drop fair/nair ?
Coz I was more thinking about it that way.

I was thinking about shield drop uair to actually hit an opponent landing on your platform (wanting to grab or smthg).

It is very possible. And pretty easy with Fair. You can probably even do it without dropping through the platform (like with spacies Bair, and a ton of luigi's moves). Doesn't porc do it alot with falco and Bair? I remember hearing some french falco doing it alot. You can also do it with rest: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiH65kh0qgU (As mentioned in the description, I have also tried to shielddrop rest without actually dropping through the platform before, but I didn't record that)

Uair is obviously easier, but Fair, Nair and Bair can all hit above the platform when you drop through.

 

[BSeeD]

Thank for the tips, unfortunately I couldn't train yesterday
I'm takin all this and keeping it for when I'll train.

What about this cancel on platform ur talking about ? I'm aware of that tech (yes porc use it a lot ) but not sure of the ways to do it. I thought it was random.

 

[stelzig]

Pretty sure it just happens when you do it early enough after dropping through the platform.

 

[Nedved]

stelzig : that's it.
When you drop then do an aerial, you can land on the platform automatically. The game thinks you are still on the platform. There is a video on youtube (on dphanna's channel I think?) about it, but can't find it. :/

 

[BSeeD]

Lol Ned u can answer me in the french boards directly
It's weird speaking english with u mate XD

Guess I'm gonna give a try on that then.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

To find the phanna video search "platforms 201" if you're talking about the aerial interupt. 101 is platform landings. I think I know the one you're referring to, tho I can't recall the name. Try platform cancel aerial or look in related videos

 

[Kaffei]

*sigh* the only tech skill thing that I'm having trouble with is consistently SHnairing out of shield. I keep full hopping.
Is there anyway to make this easier? Or should I just try to SHnair 1000000 times in a row until my muscle memory says SH?? I'm willing to do that lol

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Practice nair shining with fox a lot.

 

[KirbyKaze]

The motion for nair shine and nair oos are different because you're compressing a trigger. This does matter for some people.

SH nair OOS in front of a standing Puff in training mode (c-stick don't matter on this one). If you do the full damage while rising then you've done it pretty close to perfectly. If you miss or don't do max damage possible (obviously you need to pay attention to staling) then you've done it incorrectly.

This is how I learned the timing for the actual move. Learning it against shield stun just requires experience. Although you *can* do some other stuff to simulate that (albeit poorly) to get a feel for it.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Hmm i'm just a firm believer that fox tech skill can teach you all the tech skill you really need.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I disagree. Strongly.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

really? i mean it doesn't teach you character specific things, but theres almost nothing in the game that requires faster fingers so its good for increasing speed and accuracy in that regard. why do you disagree?

 

[KirbyKaze]

Because there are a lot of character specific things.

I also generally think you can learn how to be "fast" by doing tech skill routines with any character. Fox's greater speed is really just in his SHFFL speed and shine nonsense.

On something like nair OOS, speed isn't really what we're after anyway. We're looking for a precise input more than anything.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

That makes sense. I might just have a distorted PoV since in my tech skill phase I did a lot of practice with every character but my memory seems to only remember the fox stuff so I credit it to that. Now a days I find warming up and practicing fox's stuff is the best way to keep my tech skill in shape.

 

[Devil Ray]

i use the z button for nair out of shield. makes it a little quicker i feel.

also, i'm starting to hate using sheik. what a bad char

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Moving to fox, ray?

 

[KirbyKaze]

Sheik is incredibly good.

 

[Teczer0]

She is if you're playing well =3.

Actually yea, she's just good.

 

[ShroudedOne]

I'm literally the only person who doesn't see why she's easy to use. I can't do anything well with her.

 

[Teczer0]

Iunno, when I started really using her I had a hard time improving her after I hit a point.

 

[omgwtfToph]

SHEIK RAAAAAAAPES

Btw Teczero I'm watching haganai and you have good taste in waifus.

 

[Teczer0]

Because my computer crashed and I couldn't do mod things except infract for a while.

I'll do that though.

And Toph xD were you at Apex btw? and why didn't we play if you were

 

[Kaffei]

The motion for nair shine and nair oos are different because you're compressing a trigger. This does matter for some people.

SH nair OOS in front of a standing Puff in training mode (c-stick don't matter on this one). If you do the full damage while rising then you've done it pretty close to perfectly. If you miss or don't do max damage possible (obviously you need to pay attention to staling) then you've done it incorrectly.

This is how I learned the timing for the actual move. Learning it against shield stun just requires experience. Although you *can* do some other stuff to simulate that (albeit poorly) to get a feel for it.

Thanks, KK. This is a really good idea.
I'm so glad you exist, lol. Most pros don't give simple advice like this

 

[Teczer0]

You can change the thread title if you want later Dave haha.

Have fun

 

[KirbyKaze]

Thanks, KK. This is a really good idea.
I'm so glad you exist, lol. Most pros don't give simple advice like this

It's because I care.

Also, I devised a ton of little training drills for things like this eons ago (stuff that you can't check by counting 'consecutive hits' ). That Jigglypuff thing is one of them. Hitting the standing Kirby with SH FF AC Fair (do the fair during descent) is another. There are probably like... dozens of them. I've forgotten a lot of them though.

 

[Kaffei]

It's because I care.

Also, I devised a ton of little training drills for things like this eons ago (stuff that you can't check by counting 'consecutive hits' ). That Jigglypuff thing is one of them. Hitting the standing Kirby with SH FF AC Fair (do the fair during descent) is another. There are probably like... dozens of them. I've forgotten a lot of them though.

I see Mew2King do that a lot (SH FF AC Fair) against Fox; Is there a particular reason why that is?

 

[BSeeD]

I'm literally the only person who doesn't see why she's easy to use. I can't do anything well with her.

I pretty much agree with you.
I mean I always thought being good with Sheik is not hard being very very good takes an huge amount of work.
Coz with Sheik u have to be perfect.