Q&A Sheik Strategy & QnA

[soap]

lol, using the number of posts in this thread as a direct correlation to the number of sheik mains?

Do you know how old this thread is? How off topic we are in here...


Anyways, she is still a viable character I don't see what the fux your point is. You are sad because everybody doesn't play fox?

 

[Kaffei]

Hey, is it a bad idea to do falling nair against Falco? Like to jump over his lasers or something
:S

Can we ignore the boob guy and help me out cus im bad =D

 

[KirbyKaze]

Jumping over lasers with Nair is fine vs Falco.

I'm losing my touch in the Falco MU so I'm gonna need to practice it. I have some ideas, but I think in general I think I've gotta shy away from so much reliance on shield because Falcos are getting more technical so nair oos and other anti-pressure tactics are losing a bit of value. Although I'm curious as to whether this can be turned on them by conditioning them into doing certain kinds of pressure and then surprising them with counterattack style anti-pressure at a timely basis to get some clutch free knockdowns and combos... managing your oos options, basically.

I also think I need to use more variety of anti-laser tactics because I think my game against lasers is too much "SH over them, fair" style strategies. Too much evasion that revolves around close-quarters. I think I need to rewatch me vs. PP and see how I navigate them on the platforms and how I handle them on the whole. And I'm gonna need to force Unknown and weon-x to play friendlies with me so I can think this over more...

I'm also making really bad decisions during combos against Falcos. I think I should be holding my double jump more and saving it for a timely moment, rather than using it immediately. Modern Falcos wait for my jumps a lot more than they used to.


.

 

[Kaffei]

Wow, I never thought of it that way.. and I'm just starting to get the hang of doing things oos lol
Thanks again, really appreciated!

 

[HugS™]

What happened to Hugs? Hugs retired. He still got to WQFs and LQFs and whatever deep into his career but eventually he stopped playing entirely. That's all there is to it. Citing Hugs is really stupid of you, though. Samus has actually been performing pretty well in strong regions like FL, but some of these players (Plup) simply don't travel. Duck recently got top 8 at a MI tournament with S2J, Lovage, the finest MW players, and most of EC Canada's top players (Raynex, myself, Unknown522, weon-x). How's that for "fading into obscurity"?

Moreover, I'd think Axe, Armada, and Hungrybox's tournament placings would be good enough to demonstrate that other characters can compete in this metagame (and win!). Some of these characters are still relatively new to "competitive character" status, so I find it hard to believe they're becoming obsolete already. Peach is still pulling strong placements, and it's not just from Armada all the time. VaNz has had some really strong showings in his last few tournaments.

I mean, if you want to march up to Armada and tell him he's wasting his time on Peach because Peach can't compete and there's not enough development on her to allow her to keep up with the metagame you can do so. But you're probably just gonna get laughed at because that stance is absolutely ridiculous. Same for Hungrybox, etc.

tl;dr you're ********.

Thank you. You always seem to know your ****, KirbyKaze.

I've only entered 3 or 4 tournaments in the last year. The only time I didn't make it into the top 10 was at Genesis, where I still made it into the brackets, and I still managed to beat great players like MacD, Cyrain, Silent Spectre, and Hax along the way in pools. I'm not saying I'm better or worse than these players, but I am saying that my character didn't hold me back. And the people who beat me were EddieMexico and Shroomed, a luigi and doc, two characters that are also capable of doing well in this metagame.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I have mixed feelings about Luigi's potential in this metagame. But yeah, he doesn't seem unplayable or anything extreme quite yet.

 

[omgwtfToph]

Luigi is really frigging good.

 

[bubbaking]

Not sure what tl;dr means... -_- Anyway, that's some great stuff you brought, but I feel like some (maybe most?) of you guys get overly pissed when I say characters are "becoming obsolete" or "fading into obscurity". Not saying I'm right, cuz I'm probably wrong (and I know some1's gonna quote that part XP), and probably what I say comes out a bit too strong, but give a guy his opinion and reply in orderly fashion plz. :D

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tl;dr

 

[bubbaking]

Thank you Sveet!

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I thought about doing a lmgtfy, but i wasnt sure you'd know which one to click

 

[bubbaking]

I have a sheik question guys. I need to be better at tech chasing fox. I can vs falco but fox is harder for me. I hear if I do the dash grab instead of jc grabs its easier to tech chase in general. How do I dash grab and how do I know im doing it right?

I don't think anyone really answered this guy's question, so I'm bringing it up again since I have a similar prob w/ tech chasing foxes. Not sure if this guy's trolling me or not, but in good faith, I think a dash grab is when you simply grab while running. Press Z while dashing.

I needle cancel with "Z", is that okay?

No one answered this guy either, so I'm bumping it to top of this thread. I needle cancel w/ R so I can't really answer ur Q. KK?

fake like you're gonna outspace with bair facing backwards (maybe throw it out a few times outside of punishment distance) and then roll behind them when calling bairs, her back roll is so much better than her forward one

Um, I'm pretty sure that both of her rolls are exactly the same frame-wise. That's what I got from here:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=299984

KK don't get trolled. The dude has 40 posts, and apparently mains MK in Brawl. He trollin. No one with integrity mains MK.

Also, Sheik is pretty ridiculous.

I don't really play Brawl and I don't troll, at least not on Smashboards. Also, don't be hatin' on MK! He got mad swag (even when banned >). I just fall into the category of players who chose MK before the game even came out (website updates) and suffered the accusing finger because of it.

 

[bubbaking]

I thought about doing a lmgtfy, but i wasnt sure you'd know which one to click

"lmgtfy"? O_o Sorry, I'm pretty bad w/ txt speak.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=lmgtfy

 

[bubbaking]

*derp* Lolz!

 

[BSeeD]

How can I deal with Sheik dittos ? I mean it's maybe my worst MU since I started melee. -_-
I get ***** by Sheiks all the time -_-

 

[bubbaking]

To help you out, I'll have you know that Sheik has a CG on herself. She also falls straight into all of her own tricks, like ftilt>fair. It would be her easiest MU if it wasn't for the fact that.......she can do all of ur stuff back to you! Seriously though, this MU probably has more to do u trying to outsmart ur opponent and play better than him. Not much more I can say... :/

Edit: Basically, I suggest you get to know your opponent. Observe his habits and act accordingly.

 

[BSeeD]

Thank u for that.

Forgoto mention it was PAL version though

 

[bubbaking]

Hmmm, well, I guess that means you get uair>uair combos, right? Never played PAL so I'm gonna ask: other than weakened uairs, what does PAL change for Sheik?

 

[Kaffei]

Um, I'm pretty sure that both of her rolls are exactly the same frame-wise. That's what I got from here:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=299984

Back roll moves sheik faster than forward roll and it's also longer

 

[gm jack]

Thank u for that.

Forgoto mention it was PAL version though

No chain grab then. However, dthrow leads to a tech chase ->regrab repeat and several combo starters.

She also combos herself really well with dash attack, tilts, uair and dair, preferably finished with a fair.

Edge guarding tends to be holding the ledge to force them on stage then ****** then in their landing lag.

Don't jump unless you really have to, as crouch cancelling as grabs tends to be the key in finding a gap to start the combos.

Essentially, everything works, and it's a matter of who does it best. Just don't get too aggressive, as sheik is far better on defense.

 

[bubbaking]

Oh, one thing I remember from my Sheik ditto experiences is DC dsmash. When chasing your opponent after a hard knockdown, you can DC dsmash if they don't tech. Even if they do, sometimes they expect a grab or dash attack or something along those lines so they spot dodge, but dsmash will still hit them. This isn't guaranteed but it adds to your mixup options.

 

[IGiveUp]

I need to be better at tech chasing fox. I can vs falco but fox is harder for me. I hear if I do the dash grab instead of jc grabs its easier to tech chase in general. How do I dash grab and how do I know im doing it right?

Nicaboy, this question has been answered in here like 7 million times, but yeah dash grab's hitboxes go farther than JC grab's do. The downside is that the ending lag is longer, so you gotta make sure you get them.

From my experience as a slow techchaser, decent Foxes shine on wakeupe against Sheik's techchase though. It's also what ColBol does a lot against you at Noob3.

Also, you're way too good to be asking a question like this. I saw the results from Return of Rayku and I'm definitely impressed. I'll come to a GA tournament soon. I still have to play all you guys.

 

[bubbaking]

If u can predict the fox's shine, I think Sheik can dash attack him. Requires prediction of course, so it boils down to who can outsmart who.

 

[gm jack]

Boost grab is the answer if they roll, and JC if they tech in place.

 

[Mew2King]

if you aren't confident in your tech chase ability, just down throw, guess where they go, and up smash.

or throw them off the level so they are in a bad position

 

[Kaffei]

the king has spoken

 

[Juushichi]

I think I'll start picking up Sheik as well, I always wanted to play her and people like Tec0, Tope, KK, Drephen and M2K make her look pretty sexy at times.

 

[BSeeD]

Thank you for advices ppl.

Next question : I always hear that I have to be "defensive" with Sheik.
Recently got me thinking, coz I always thought this character was an aggressive one.

Except throwing/stocking needles, what do u guyz call being defensive ?

 

[Kaffei]

imo being defensive is staying at the ledge then u throw them off stage and gimp them

then u just keep running away and punish their approaches

idk lolol

 

[BSeeD]

imo being defensive is staying at the ledge then u throw them off stage and gimp them

then u just keep running away and punish their approaches

idk lolol

This is called being Mew2King. Not being defensive XD

 

[Kaffei]

i think that's what sheiks good at tho

 

[joejoe22802]

Being Defensive means you don't force the situation. You wait for mistakes more often.

 

[BSeeD]

I get the general idea of defending.
But what I don't get really is what are my possibilities while defending.

I mean, what are the common things I could do to force the opponent into making a mistake ?
I can't just sit around stocking needles and wait for the guy to make a mistake right ?

 

[Smooth Criminal]

You shouldn't be sitting there stocking needles and waiting for a mistake.

You should be moving and waiting for a mistake, all at the same time. Playing defensively, then, is a matter of spacing and/or footsies. Tuck and roll, bob and weave---whatever you wanna call it, you wanna get in there and press 'em by spacing SHFFL'd attacks, empty SH's to grabbing, platform-canceling needles, JC/boost grabbing---whatever it is you need to do depending on the match-up (believe me, it varies)---while limiting your opponent's options to do something deniable and fatal to you at the same time. It makes a big difference.

Smooth Criminal

 

[gm jack]

You play similar spacing games as to if you were to be offensive, but you are trying to make them do something dumb and punish it as opposed to throwing the first hits.

Defensive =/= camping.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Sheik's straight offense is clunky but she's great at boxing people in and poking them.

 

[Tope]

Poke Poke Poke.

KK going to ROM?

If so MM (if we don't play in tournament)

REVENGE FOR POUND 5

 

[KirbyKaze]

*****, I will tilt you.

Or... I would... but I'm probably not going to ROM4.

Work/school johns, etc.

:/

You and Jason are gonna have to protect the Sheik base without me.

 

[Jolteon]

If u can predict the fox's shine, I think Sheik can dash attack him. Requires prediction of course, so it boils down to who can outsmart who.

you can just react to every tech option and grab (except non tech obviously)