Q&A Sheik Strategy & QnA

[KirbyKaze]

I don't know for sure because I know very little about Luigi but my gut is something like, "Fuck No."

Sheik Puff isn't insurmountable bad, it's just monotonous and everything about Sheik that's good evaporates entirely.

 

[Lawrencelot]

I also find ftilt really good against puff. It's also easy to CC while ftilting so you don't lose that much if you miss. I usually just spam bair, needles and tilts and apparently it works because someone counterpicked mute city with puff on me and i just stayed sheik and won, but i haven't played against good puffs as of yet

 

[gm jack]

I also find ftilt really good against puff. It's also easy to CC while ftilting so you don't lose that much if you miss. I usually just spam bair, needles and tilts and apparently it works because someone counterpicked mute city with puff on me and i just stayed sheik and won, but i haven't played against good puffs as of yet

The guy is an ok Marth main. I suspect he did it out of desperation, rather than actually having a good jiggs.

Also, I shall attempt to record this weird Dthrow effect over the next week. If it's just mewtwo, not that useful, but if it gets a top tier, it could be great in edgeguarding.

 

[KirbyKaze]

F-tilt is bad against Puff's Bair because you trade down in damage but if they're doing anything but Bair or duck or shield it *****.

 

[Archadia]

I play in Pal, and I have trouble with Marth.
When I approach him, he usually throw a F-tilt, or a F-smash. I try to sheild, but the situation is just resetted. Is it possible to punish him with a wavedash OoS if it hits my sheild with the tipper ? If not, what can I do to approch him ?
Another thing : Until ~45%, the D-throw make him fall on the ground if he Di away. So I techchase. But after 45%, he starts doublejumping and he throw F-air at me. What can I do here ? Using another throw ?
Thanks for answers.

 

[Lawrencelot]

I play in Pal, and I have trouble with Marth.
When I approach him, he usually throw a F-tilt, or a F-smash. I try to sheild, but the situation is just resetted. Is it possible to punish him with a wavedash OoS if it hits my sheild with the tipper ? If not, what can I do to approch him ?
Another thing : Until ~45%, the D-throw make him fall on the ground if he Di away. So I techchase. But after 45%, he starts doublejumping and he throw F-air at me. What can I do here ? Using another throw ?
Thanks for answers.

You can try to jump over the fsmash / ftilt. Or dashdance and punish his lag with dash attack / grab. Or throw some needles. If he hits your shield with fsmash and it's no tipper, you can wavedash OoS and grab or something, I'm not sure if you can do that when it's a tipper but maybe wavedash OoS into ftilt works even then, or wavedash to dashattack.
After downthrow there's not that much you can do against marth, you can pay attention to what he does (fair, or jump+fair, or go to the ground, etc.) and follow up on that by either shielding his fair, or avoiding it by ducking/staying away.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Throw some needles. You can wd OoS to punish non-tipper fsmash/ftilt. If he is fsmashing early enough to always tip it on your shield, you should work on your baiting.

Just wait until the marth learns to nair and dtilt to keep you out.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Running CC > D-tilt

Unless Marth has perfect spacing, in which case the matchup shifts from approach being a viable initial strategy to a secondary strategy. And then you **** him with needle camping and other stuff.

 

[SonuvaBeach]

If anyone has a chance to watch this, going to the MSU tourny tomorrow and vids just got uploaded and I could use critiques asap.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=449gBJa4oDA

My third stock right after the SD I clearly mess up quite a few times, so exclude that small part. I know I need to not go for shield grabs as often, and if toadster would have lasered more I would have lost. Any other information though would be immensely helpful. Thanks whomever!

 

[gm jack]

Also, I shall attempt to record this weird Dthrow effect over the next week. If it's just mewtwo, not that useful, but if it gets a top tier, it could be great in edgeguarding.

No video, but I found that this also works on Peach and Samus as well as Mewtwo. Didn't check everyone though, but no more top or high tiers get hit by it I think.

Roll into the very edge (should have one foot in mid air) of battlefield and Dthrow them. They seem to get caught under the edge and get stage spikes about 45 degrees down and away.

Shame it's in a limited position on characters who won't be massively bothered by it, but I guess if you can predict them air dodging onto the stage, you could use it as a surprise to set up a Bair edgeguard.

If nobody can replicate it, I'll try and get a video, but i lack recording equipment, so it wouldn't be great quality.

 

[KirbyKaze]

If anyone has a chance to watch this, going to the MSU tourny tomorrow and vids just got uploaded and I could use critiques asap.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=449gBJa4oDA

My third stock right after the SD I clearly mess up quite a few times, so exclude that small part. I know I need to not go for shield grabs as often, and if toadster would have lasered more I would have lost. Any other information though would be immensely helpful. Thanks whomever!

You need to make aerial --> F-tilt less automatic. He's ccing into shield and you're not punishing it. He shields a lot, actually, and you really don't capitalize on it and grab him. You missed a dash attack and he literally blocked for a whole second and then you turned around and dash attacked him. That's when you should be grabbing him. Or, if you're petrified, space something. Or stare him down. Don't charge in when you don't have to. Him shielding puts himself in a hole if you get yourself spaced.

You get in close sometimes and then switch to being passive and block when you should be aiming to abuse range. It's hard to work through those lasers and when you get yourself positioned to properly pressure him and make him sweat, it's really important to press that advantage. Staring him down, spacing a move from afar, and using non-commital movements (walking is good here) are all really simple things that can make him sweat and produce a defensive response. Shielding just invites him to get his space back. It's not necessarily a bad idea if you're trying to bait them into attacking you, but a lot of the time you should be pushing but then you don't.

 

[LooksLikePit]

Wouldn't it be awesome if you could play two sheiks at one like the ice climbers, and instead of transforming into Zelda with down-b they had fox's shine? I think so.

 

[DJRome]

i would just utilt desynced. lol

 

[KirbyKaze]

I would nair with one and grab with the other. And then do stupid throw stuff.

 

[xbombr]

Hold with one, and repeatedly dsmash with the other.

 

[SPAWN]

nice matches spawn. you almost had it. i remember watching your vids against cort back in '07...you got ***** hard in those haha.

sheiks need to do upsmash out of sheildddd more against puff, especially when they try to duck near you. it's 222good.

Haha thanks. Yeah it sucks because I can actually chaingrab at 0% vs Sheik with full di away even if my grab is staled with doing 4% damage... I've just been doing so many friendly Sheik dittos where I just auto ftilt afterwards.

Also in '07 I got ***** so bad in those friendlies vs Cort haha.


Question, what should you do vs sheik when you grab the other Sheik and you're on DL when the Sheik is at

60 with away DI/behind
70 with away DI/behind
80 with away DI/behind

KK wanna do like a mini guide like you did with your post about combos vs marth? I feel like because I didn't know what to do/messed up at those percents I lost to Plank... that and I was sucking at cg'ing but whatever/all in the past now.

 

[Spife]

Some one post a combo tree or a serious flow chart vs characters or for combos. You guys know you want to.

 

[KirbyKaze]

In dittos after about 70 I just try to hit them offstage.

 

[SPAWN]

What about when they get on that platform... they can tech the fair and then they're back onstage...

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

duh thats why you dair or usmash

 

[KirbyKaze]

What about when they get on that platform... they can tech the fair and then they're back onstage...

Dair them. Or waveland regrab.

 

[Lawrencelot]

Can't you just fair again if they tech your fair

 

[Twin_A]

I have a problem when facing other sheiks and getting CG'd. What percent can I jump out of it and around when in the throw should I time the jump (or just start mashing)?

And yes I know, I shouldn't be getting grabbed in the first place

 

[SPAWN]

Twin A you ask a very valid question and I would like to know the answer to it as well.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

I thought it was around like 80 something?

 

[xbombr]

Isn't the CG until like 90?

80 or 90...it doesn't matter, basically they can CG you until a % that you end up getting knocked off for an edgegaurd.

 

[SPAWN]

...I thought it was 70...

 

[ChivalRuse]

Isn't the CG until like 90?

That can't be true. If it were, Sheik wouldn't have a chance against herself.

 

[soap]

sheik dittos are teh gay

 

[DJRome]

idk, they seem to go up to over 100. but maybe im just slow. cause i played sheik dittos with someone for 2 hours and it took over 100+% to jump out. like 110+

 

[xbombr]

That can't be true. If it were, Sheik wouldn't have a chance against herself.

Sheik doesn't stand a chance against herself. That's why Sheik dittos are gay and are only moderately fun in friendlies when both parties agree to not do the gay *** CG.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Plank says 90 in his guide. People told me for the matchup thread that 90 is too high and it's 70.

So I really don't know.

 

[Kira-]

I've jumped out at high 70s quite a few times

I've seen Isai jump out at like low 70s at OC3

either way, usually FD is banned in dittos and you can get to a platform before then

 

[Twin_A]

Next time I'll just ban FD or counter pick IC's against them then

I'll just have to try mashing out of it next time during friendlies to see what I can do.

Thanks :D

 

[Plairnkk]

that guide is pretty old, there are some innaccuracies T.T

 

[DJRome]

well, getting out early could also be the result of slow grabbing. i would actually like a magus post cause that would solve every problem. if only we could have a magus generator

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

1 test in AR, it works at 83% (after throw dmg) but stops sometime between 85% and 95%

with no DI

 

[xbombr]

If they DI wouldn't regrab be easier since they're closer to the ground?Kinda like how Sheik can grab Marth if he DI's away, but not with no DI.

So it does stop around the upper 80's/low 90's though. Interesting info, Sveet.

 

[h!tboxexplo!ter]

is it quicker to dash then cc a dsmash... or run wavedash in place to a dsmash?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

crouch->dsmash is only 1 frame, wd->dsmash is 10 frames.