Q&A Sheik Strategy & QnA

[Jolteon]

It's a bit different from that; it's bthrow to immediate sh nair.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

it onyl worked because the falco tried to dj dair after, i dont know how often they do that.

a fox definitely wouldnt do that.

a falco can trade with that, spiking shiek. the reward for fox owuld be significantly lower.

 

[ZoSo]

Bunglefever, two things:

1) Is this the inspiration for your name?

2) Kira didn't run off double jump nair. He did a short hop nair, which counters what Falcomist did (instant double jump dair), which in turn counters Sheik's run off double jump nair.

 

[Jolteon]

Ok, fair enough. Thanks.

 

[DJRome]

he's the lead vocalist's son

 

[DtJ Jungle]

Zoso response

1) the name comes from Evil Eye, i dunno he calls me that cuz i suck at life i guess.

2) yeah i rewatched and figured that out

 

[Nihonjin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUu2uvCVtn4
the camping going on in game 3 is hilarious, i'm not sure who starts it though lol

How can you link to the first match and not know who started it..?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Sheik vs Fox is sort of like the immovable object vs the unstoppable force argument. Except its the ultimate mobile camp vs the ultimate defensive camp.


edit: how would a fox or falco escape the bthrow to sh nair fall off the stage and bair the firefox/illusion? I did it a few times to my friend, and each time it got a kill but he wasn't mixing it up very much. Some things that popped into my head were airdodge through the nair and DJ away firefox 30degrees up (w/ fox mostly)

 

[Slhoka]

How can you link to the first match and not know who started it..?

Actually, watching a match featuring Jman and not knowing who started camping is a bit naive

I was really happy to see you camp the **** out of him. His Fox is awesome, but he spends most games against good players running away and camping like a *****. I really didn't want to see anyone (especially you or the other Europeans) lose to someone playing like that.

 

[soap]

How can you link to the first match and not know who started it..?

jman forced u off once, then was 2 slow to punish the upb onto stage.

can't believe he's never learned how to deal with shino stall...

 

[Nihonjin]

^Lucky me..=]
But I've got a couple more tricks up my sleeve for when he does..:embarrass

 

[Tyson651]

I actually played him in the tournament for 5th, look in the vids thread.

I think Jmans better overall, but Lucky seems to be a bit more effective against me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUu2uvCVtn4
the camping going on in game 3 is hilarious, i'm not sure who starts it though lol

wow i actually feel kinda stupid asking if amsah played jman or not.

i watched that set a while ago and i totally forgot about it lol!

 

[Teczer0]

I think Jman knows how to deal with it.

But just decided to keep to his "Play UUUUUBER defensive because he'll slip up EVENTUALLY" game.

I have a very hard time seeing Jman not understanding the simple concept of grabbing the edge before your opponent can.

 

[ZoSo]

I liked how people were complaining about shino stalling like it's this new broken tactic.

 

[Heart Break Kid]

I liked how people were complaining about shino stalling like it's this new broken tactic.

Jman *****. And quoting Zoso so hopefully my beast sig shows up

 

[Devil Ray]

i honestly thought jman was going to **** amsah, i really didn't expect amsah to be so beastly. he ate up the US spacies like they were chicken

that said, i thought he was going to do a lil better against hbox. i would have loved to see amsah vs mango in g.finals :-D

 

[Nihonjin]

i honestly thought jman was going to **** amsah, i really didn't expect amsah to be so beastly. he ate up the US spacies like they were chicken

I'm a Vegan..:embarrass

that said, i thought he was going to do a lil better against hbox. i would have loved to see amsah vs mango in g.finals :-D

I'm sorry, I broke my own rule and instead of trying to entertain (which in this case was playing to win) I sort of gave up against Hbox and played to learn instead..

The good news, I'm confident I can take him down now. No spacies or Juans will get in my way next time, so unless Mango loses to Kage

Spoiler

Mango <33

, we'll definitely meet eachother at <insert tournament we both participate in here>.. =]

 

[soap]

i actually just watched grand finals lol (cuz i left the venue after hbox won LF)

thanks 4 making that possible amsah:embarrass gl next time

i only watched to see the missed rest jab everyone was talking about

i don't see what the big deal was. mango did that **** in winners finals too. he jab fair killed hbox after a missed rest.

it's called mindgames, this tourney was in the bag so he was asserting mental dominance 4 future tournies

 

[Teczer0]

Its like you guys don't understand the purpose of the social room at ALL

EDIT: Make use of the social room. A few minor random posts are cool but keep an entire offtopic discussion to the social room.

 

[soap]

we can't just up and take a conversation somewhere else from where it tangentally started

u know this tec

 

[DtJ Jungle]

your face is off topic tec

 

[Tyson651]

hi tec, how are you

 

[Plairnkk]

tec likes to get drunk and ruin hotel deals FOR ALL FUTURES

discuss

 

[Kira-]

lucky is more consistent from what i've seen. Jman flows between and godlike

That's interesting because I always thought Jman was more consistent. Then again, I am from Socal where nothing outside of Mango is ever consistent.

I got a question about Fox vs Sheik, how well does the Falco specific edgeguard shown here work on Fox? Basically, I want to know if it's at all viable and what a Fox's options are to escape it.

Fox gets out of it more easily, he can:
- stay in his shine and save his double jump, which Falco can do also
- jump all the way back and up B (works better because his up B is longer obv)
- double jump upair close to the stage. You'll have to up B, but sheik won't be able to edgeguard you cause she just got upaired. Both Eggz and SW have done this to me on occasion, but it's high-risk because if you miss.. well you're screwed if Sheik gets to the ledge on time.
- I think in some situations you can double jump really far away and side B onto the stage.. but i think it only works if you were thrown really close to the ledge and not if you were more on the stage before being thrown off.

2) Kira didn't run off double jump nair. He did a short hop nair, which counters what Falcomist did (instant double jump dair), which in turn counters Sheik's run off double jump nair.

What people don't know is that "instant short hop nair" also covers what "run off double jump nair" is supposed to cover except that the instant nair is safer and covers more options. So basically there's no reason to ever run off double jump nair.

If you fast fall the instant nair, it hits any side B sweetspots. Then double jump fair, up B back to the ledge. Kills Falco immediately, pretty much guarantees a kill on Fox.

 

[Jolteon]

That's interesting because I always thought Jman was more consistent. Then again, I am from Socal where nothing outside of Mango is ever consistent.



Fox gets out of it more easily, he can:
- stay in his shine and save his double jump, which Falco can do also
- jump all the way back and up B (works better because his up B is longer obv)
- double jump upair close to the stage. You'll have to up B, but sheik won't be able to edgeguard you cause she just got upaired. Both Eggz and SW have done this to me on occasion, but it's high-risk because if you miss.. well you're screwed if Sheik gets to the ledge on time.
- I think in some situations you can double jump really far away and side B onto the stage.. but i think it only works if you were thrown really close to the ledge and not if you were more on the stage before being thrown off.



What people don't know is that "instant short hop nair" also covers what "run off double jump nair" is supposed to cover except that the instant nair is safer and covers more options. So basically there's no reason to ever run off double jump nair.

If you fast fall the instant nair, it hits any side B sweetspots. Then double jump fair, up B back to the ledge. Kills Falco immediately, pretty much guarantees a kill on Fox.

Thanks for clarifying it; useful information. Something I also forgot to mention is that I play PAL and hence Fox can't up+b as far, but I'll figure out how that effects this myself (though I'm guessing you can just do a double jump bair after the nair and hit him regardless?)

 

[Spife]

So is there ever a time you'd want to run off > dj > nair? Or is sh instant nair better 100% of the time?

 

[Plairnkk]

i do double jump nair to hit people out of their jumps when they try to just jump back sometimes. how does on the stage sh nair cover that?

 

[Kira-]

Thanks for clarifying it; useful information. Something I also forgot to mention is that I play PAL and hence Fox can't up+b as far, but I'll figure out how that effects this myself (though I'm guessing you can just do a double jump bair after the nair and hit him regardless?)

well usually i'm facing towards them.. but that would work in theory


oh yeah one more thing is that they can airdodge back. but usually they airdodge too late and die. I bet we've all heard this john: "I airdodged!"

i do double jump nair to hit people out of their jumps when they try to just jump back sometimes. how does on the stage sh nair cover that?

u_u' oh yeah i forgot about that

lol even i use that myself. tired johns.

 

[KirbyKaze]

oh yeah one more thing is that they can airdodge back. but usually they airdodge too late and die. I bet we've all heard this john: "I airdodged!"

Every time I play.

Every time.

 

[Spife]

Miss-inputs are a blast. I love mashing side b as fox or falco and then finally doing it half a second later into the stage. YEAH MASHING!

 

[Tyson651]

hey amsah, im not sure if u want to tell us or not but

how do u do ur double stick DI on falco/fox dsmashes in the vids?

what else does it work against other than falco/fox dsmashes?

 

[Nihonjin]

It's just teching sideways..=]

 

[Scidadle]

I think you hold down on c-stick and sideways with the control stick. At least for being the move efficient way

(I think)

 

[Teczer0]

hey amsah, im not sure if u want to tell us or not but

how do u do ur double stick DI on falco/fox dsmashes in the vids?

what else does it work against other than falco/fox dsmashes?

It works on

Fox/falco dsmash, fsmash
Peach's dsmash
Sheik's everything
Falco's dair
Puff's rest

A whole TON of stuff

The c-stick down is just ASDI and it helps slightly but for the most part Amsah's right. Its generally SDIing basically into the stage and away.

 

[TLMSheikant]

Lol someone money matched me 3$ with pichu. Its kinda a joke, but I wanna be prepared anyways. What are some things I should watch out agaist crapchu? If I lose, I quit seriously. rofl. I havent ever played that matchup thats why I wanna know.

 

[gm jack]

If you're NSTC, chaingrab. Don't get cocky, as he does have some Up-B tricks and can do damage if you mess up.

 

[Lawrencelot]

Lol someone money matched me 3$ with pichu. Its kinda a joke, but I wanna be prepared anyways. What are some things I should watch out agaist crapchu? If I lose, I quit seriously. rofl. I havent ever played that matchup thats why I wanna know.

Don't go above pichu, use longrange moves like bairs and tilts, use needles, and if it's not necessary to play it safe like this just do random moves and be agressive and win. And pay attention to his techrolls, they're slow but also very short. Try to DI his sidesmash up (I think it's up). His neutral B does 10% while it's in the air, and only 4 I think while on the ground, 10% isn't nothing so watch the damage meter.

 

[Nihonjin]

I think you hold down on c-stick and sideways with the control stick. At least for being the move efficient way

(I think)

I just use the control stick..

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

IIRC pichu also has dthrow->usmash combo to kill with, and i think its better to (A)SDI the fsmash outwards (even if you're being edge guarded) because if you go up or in you risk falling into the last hitbox which is kinda big.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Pichu can't d-throw u-smash rofl he's not good enough to be able to d-throw combo.

He can, however, combo from u-throw so don't get grabbed. Don't be above him I guess. CC his crap forever because you can. Shield his crap forever because you can. Everything you do beats everything he does so take advantage of that too.