Q&A Sheik Strategy & QnA

[Dorsey]

so one more time how does sheik do so well without her grab combos?

Grab -> dthrow is so key for sheik in almost all match-ups for me... but, an example of it taking less of a role in a match-up for me would be v. ganon. I focus more effort/spacing into avoiding his grab than getting grabs myself. I have been 0-deathed way too many times by ganon's cg with good DI to do otherwise.. The results of sheik's dthrow parallel that of ganon's dthrow, so instead of going for a lot of grabs(which most of the time means getting grabbed more as well, and ganon's cg on sheik is easier than vice versa imo) I do things that I'm more consistent with abusing sheik's advantage in the match-up. Platforms help.

 

[gm jack]

Wait she can chain grab fast fallers?

O_O

I mean as in she no loner chain grabs anyone without horrible DI, so she relies on tech chasing.

You all need to remember a lot of characters would kill for a projectile like needles, or a kill as reliable as Ftilt => Fair. Just because she can't invalidate some characters as easily doesn't really stop her doing horrible stuff to people out of a grab.

 

[Wiggins]

I have a question for a shiek buddy of mine. What is the best strategy against Luigi for Shiek? I main Luigi and he's having trouble with the nairs and floatiness of the little italian plumber. What do you recommend for the situation? I tried to give him advice, but I really don't know Shiek well enough to give that great of advice. =]

so yea. Same question. What kind of advice can I give him? He hasn't been playing as long as i have and he keeps asking me what he should do. But I don't know what to tell him.

 

[Dorsey]

My regular practice secondaries luigi (ganon and luigi are his two legit chars) and if luigi's spacing is on that match-up *can* be tough for sheik, and if sheik isn't exceptionally spacing well luigi will win a lot of aerial battles. But I find if I win at least 50% of the spacing battles then I'll win for the most part.. but spacing aerials on a good luigi can seriously be tough at times. Just keep in mind that luigi is especially easy to gimp with darts though and easier to gimp in general, and focus on winning your aerial spacing battles against him. Sheik does good against luigi. I would avoid staying grounded for too long against him as well. I'll try and get a video up today of the match-up, or how I play it I mean... I think I already have a few on my computer and I could record a new one or 2.

 

[Nihonjin]

so one more time how does sheik do so well without her grab combos?

Because Sheik is much more than just her dthrow. Even without the guaranteed setup, she still has really good offense, defense and mobility lol..

 

[Nihonjin]

i doubt amsah could name all 50 states + capitals

I did in like 4th grade, got a 100 on that test

Yes I can..:embarrass

Spoiler

I lied..=D

~ Accidental double post

 

[Lordydennek]

Yes I can..:embarrass

Spoiler

I lied..=D

~ Accidental double post

I can read that spoiler when i quote this. gotcha!!!

I thought Luigi was good against sheik?

 

[KirbyKaze]

Luigi is horrible against Sheik.

 

[Lordydennek]

really? cuz i remember watching that crew battle and hearing DJ nintendo saying that luigi had sweet combos on sheik. then of course pacman played.

 

[h!tboxexplo!ter]

i guess heres my real question why is fox only tied with sheik

 

[DJRome]

luigi can combo sheik. but he can't start them so :\

 

[Lordydennek]

Question!

My friend who plays cfalcon often CPs FD against me...and its rather hard to kill him there. and he can combo the crap outa me. so far my stategy is basically staying near the edge baiting his advance then shield grabbing into bthrow to edgegaurd/gimp at low percents...this doenst always work. i only got 1 out of 5 matches on him tonight at FD. any advice on what i should do??

 

[soap]

try being aggressive and trap him near the ledge, then nair to knock him over, tech chase grab, end stock

 

[Lordydennek]

if he's ledgehopping knees can i use dtilt to stop them? or is dsmash better? i got punished when i used dsmash and ftilt(he was too low i think we traded hits). i may have timed it wrong.

 

[gm jack]

i guess heres my real question why is fox only tied with sheik

I have no idea. Personally, I think Marth and Falco should be above Sheik as well as Fox. Peach and Jiggs would be, if it wasn't for how bad Fox is for them, who is pretty **** common to play. A good peach is much rarer, so less impact on viability.

 

[Lordydennek]

Fox "kills" sheik. Sheik "kills" marth. Marth "kills" fox. Falco? he can kill any of them. but it really depends on the style of each player. i have two friends with good marths. one can beat my sheik and the other cannot and theyre both "better" than me at the game. its in the style.

 

[gm jack]

If their "style" is wrong then they don't know the matchup, plain and simple. Best if your opponent has a style, as they means it has traits to be exploited. The best players are very flexible, and can adapt to the opponent. If someone is losing a matchup they should win, they are the worse player as far as that matchup is concerned.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Question!

My friend who plays cfalcon often CPs FD against me...and its rather hard to kill him there. and he can combo the crap outa me. so far my stategy is basically staying near the edge baiting his advance then shield grabbing into bthrow to edgegaurd/gimp at low percents...this doenst always work. i only got 1 out of 5 matches on him tonight at FD. any advice on what i should do??

1. how do you get shield grabs on a falcon?
2. try camping him. You don't necessarily want your back to the wall, so try to cover as much of the stage as you can while making him still come to you. This means lots of shielding and then WD and retreating ftilts and needles if he doesn't come to you. Get a couple hits and he can be tech chased, grabbed, and dead.

if he's ledgehopping knees can i use dtilt to stop them? or is dsmash better? i got punished when i used dsmash and ftilt(he was too low i think we traded hits). i may have timed it wrong.

ledgehop anything has invincibility. space yourself good and you'll be fine.

 

[Lordydennek]

Well thats half true. At a high level im convinced that the matchups arent THAT relevant. The strange thing is that Siegs marth does better against my yoshi than Leviathan. But does worst against my sheik than Leviathan. They have different styles of marth. Lvtns marth is real agressive and has expert edge games. whereas Siegs is very patient and reads my moves. I do better against someone who isnt in my face constanly. of course its hard to do good at all on yoshis story... stupid tipper. styles really do play a part

 

[Lordydennek]

1. how do you get shield grabs on a falcon?
2. try camping him. You don't necessarily want your back to the wall, so try to cover as much of the stage as you can while making him still come to you. This means lots of shielding and then WD and retreating ftilts and needles if he doesn't come to you. Get a couple hits and he can be tech chased, grabbed, and dead.



ledgehop anything has invincibility. space yourself good and you'll be fine.

He's not perfect with the gentleman and uses Forward b a lot. I hate that forward b move....ugh. he tech chases with it...
After his jab theres a tiny space where you can grab also immediantly after his aerials. idk if he misses anything at all or i just wait a bit i can usually get a shield grab.

sorry bout the double post

 

[Teczer0]

Right now I'm kinda lazy to make sense of all that.....

Can you re-phrase that for me?

If he's using side-b a lot you can shield grab that, if you feel he uses side-b to tech chase a lot you might wanna miss your tech on purpose. A lot falcons often side-b way too early and you can just roll past him to get by it.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

most falcons i play mix spaced aerials into jabs and dash dances to no certain time to shield grab

maybe we just do it weird in the mw

*checks your locatioin* Oh...

 

[KirbyKaze]

really? cuz i remember watching that crew battle and hearing DJ nintendo saying that luigi had sweet combos on sheik. then of course pacman played.

I guess Sheik must not **** Pikachu because he has sweet combos on her.

 

[DJRome]

q: i have this thing where i fh nair. and basically i have the following options. if they run at me, i can ff and hit them (trade likely), dj and bair, wait for it to end and fair at the bottom. if they don't run at me they almost always run at me when i land so i just dsmash. is there an actual advantage to this or does it just fool them momentarily? cause it's worked on very good players as well.

 

[KirbyKaze]

FH Nair is okay but I do it too much. It mostly just helps control space and maybe work as a little approach trick because of the autocancel.

 

[Lordydennek]

I if they aerial into perfect jab/gentleman shield pressure you cant do anything. the thing is he messes it up so i just grab him.

 

[DJRome]

oh yeah, another question. ace showed me this thing about shield di. how is this done and can i do it on a spaced falco fsmash so i can shieldgrab?

 

[Falcinho]

yeah you can

Shield DI is like Smash DI, just smash your stick in the wished direction as the move hits your shield.

 

[DJRome]

aight, so the shieldstun should stop me from rolling? or can i tilt it? idk, it may be too much trouble.

 

[Moooose]

edit: never mind i need to read before i write

 

[h!tboxexplo!ter]

wait whats this about shield di?

 

[TresChikon]

aight, so the shieldstun should stop me from rolling? or can i tilt it? idk, it may be too much trouble.

Tilting won't register anything, you want to "Smash" the stick, hence, "Smash DI."

Shieldstun renders you unable to perform anything, so directional inputs would be registered as SDI and not rolls.

wait whats this about shield di?

If you're familiar with ASDI and SDI, they are possible during hitlag. And because shield stun is still considered hitlag by the game, SDI and ASDI is possible within the shield.

Shield DI is also what makes the Marth killer possible.

 

[Lordydennek]

Marth Killer?

 

[Teczer0]

I'm guessing he means the lightshield edgehog.

 

[cykofox]

Marth Killer?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbP_tR4D0q8

 

[KirbyKaze]

I should clarify that FH Nair is completely awful against Falcon, Marth, and Fox (although it's less bad against Fox). In the event nobody realized that putting yourself above those characters willingly might be viewed as counterproductive.

 

[Teczer0]

I thought staying above falcon gave you all the advantages in the world?

Spoiler

kidding

 

[KirbyKaze]

Shhhh they mustn't know the secret.

 

[DJRome]

I should clarify that FH Nair is completely awful against Falcon, Marth, and Fox (although it's less bad against Fox). In the event nobody realized that putting yourself above those characters willingly might be viewed as counterproductive.

lol yeah. but sometimes it works well against falcons if you space from far away and then they think they're faster than they really are. and fox. . . i have mixed results with that. but marth is really gay from below.

btw, what is the deal with uthrow from marths? how to di at which % and are the utilts guaranteed? i rarely get hit by it but idk if it's just them being slow or if it's just not possible

 

[Teczer0]

lol yeah. but sometimes it works well against falcons if you space from far away and then they think they're faster than they really are. and fox. . . i have mixed results with that. but marth is really gay from below.

btw, what is the deal with uthrow from marths? how to di at which % and are the utilts guaranteed? i rarely get hit by it but idk if it's just them being slow or if it's just not possible

You're really placing yourself in a position where they have the option to take advantage of you. Doing them doesn't give you any advantages whatsoever.

The uptilts iirc are basically never guaranteed or if it is its like < 20%.