Q&A Sheik Strategy & QnA

[unknown522]

hey, i have spaceballs in my pool. what else should i do beside camp needles and bair against samus? also, what's stuff i should be avoiding or not doing that i normally can do?

KK:

Ask Kira. He ***** that machup.

Drephen approaches with shield against Samus a lot. It's really good.

Spaced Fair is good. Don't get tilt-happy when she's grounded. I think D-smsh is good against her, provided they're not smart and do the epic anti-Sheik-D-smash technique.

 

[SPAWN]

Just shield the entire match then punish. If you get grabbed you suck. **** missiles with whatever you want.

1. Lon
1. Spawn
1. UberLoser
1. Bluefoxxt@live.com
1. D1
1. HDL

I don't think I have to worry about anyone except HDL I hear is pretty good.

Hopefully UberLoser isn't UberIce because I really don't want to play good Ice Climbers. Can anyone confirm Uberloser isn't UberIce?

 

[GOD!]

Don't credit me..He's doing most of the work himself..:embarrass

amsah shut the f*ck up. I don't care if I get warned for this, but shut your mouth. Stop talking sh** over the internet f@g. It's over and done. We don't like each other, but at least I know when to drop it.

 

[Spife]

amsah shut the f*ck up. I don't care if I get warned for this, but shut your mouth. Stop talking sh** over the internet f@g. It's over and done. We don't like each other, but at least I know when to drop it.

apparently you don't

 

[IAmBlu3]

such anger in this thread lol

 

[Nihonjin]

apparently you don't

^This

Besides, what I said is true.

I didn't really do much, you were making a fool of yourself, all I did was point it out..:embarrass

Pretty much like Spife did just now..

Also, I don't know or care about you enough to dislike you. To me you're just some random guy on the internet with anger management problems and severe issues with being called dumb.

 

[GOD!]

such anger in this thread lol

The only problem is that

1) Amsah says stupud matchup stuff.
2) I use videos and real situations to show that he's wrong, and I spend 40 minuted getting together an intelligent post showing why he's wrong and showing why I am right.
3) He replies saying absolutely nothing that actually supports what he says. Nothing he says actually disclaims anything I say, and all he does is claim that I am attacking him (which I never am, I just think his posts are stupid. I just called him a f@g because he talks about my butt).
4) He then tells me I'm making a fool of myself... he just types that. And expects it to carry him. When in fact he just can't face the fact that he's wrong.
5) Tec0 suggests we stop. I agree to stop, so does he.
6) The dog returns to his vomit, again with a witless and inane post, without any techinical merit about the game or about character weaknesses, etc. He just repeats that he's right and I'm making a fool of myself.
7) Enter amsah fanboys. I can;t wait to see you get ***** hard at p4.

When I get called out because he won't drop being an immature child, should I just sit around watching? Nope.

 

[Spife]

Oh I'm not a fanboy, I was just pointing out that between swears and insults, you managed to say you knew when to drop something when you clearly didn't.

Dog returns to his vomit is a good one.
So is God returns to his timov.

wait what?

 

[GOD!]

Oh I'm not a fanboy, I was just pointing out that between swears and insults, you managed to say you knew when to drop something when you clearly didn't.

Dog returns to his vomit is a good one.
So is God returns to his timov.

wait what?

you weren't the fanboy.

It's like a game of catch: when you both stop playing with the ball, no one's playing, but when one of the people picks up the ball and throws it at your face and you catch it, you are both playing. Great analogy.

The point is amsah brought it back to life and needs to get off of my nuts.

 

[Nihonjin]

1) Amsah says stupud matchup stuff.

Yup, you clearly know Sheik better than I do..

2) I use videos and real situations to show that he's wrong,

So me playing people isn't real now..? K..lol

and I spend 40 minuted getting together an intelligent post showing why he's wrong and showing why I am right.

Which as I pointed out, doesn't disprove anything I said. All you did was situations where the Sheik either mistimed or spaced wrong and got punished for it. And m2k dealing with Docs in a different way (which shows that what you say is effective, but doesn't prove me wrong)

He replies saying absolutely nothing that actually supports what he says.

It's good that he tilted the pill, it's neutralizes the situation. There was nothing wrong with it.
As a matter of fact, it created a grab situation for him right afterwards but he messed up by ftilting again.

Nothing he says actually disclaims anything I say

Because I don't disagree with what you said about avoiding pills..lol
All I'm saying is that you can also attack them and that it's actually better than avoiding in some situations.

and all he does is claim that I am attacking him (which I never am, I just think his posts are stupid. I just called him a f@g because he talks about my butt).

Look at your last post.

4) He then tells me I'm making a fool of myself... he just types that. And expects it to carry him.

You are. You contradict yourself, give stupid examples and don't read (or understand) what I'm saying.

When in fact he just can't face the fact that he's wrong.

I'll ask you again, wrong about what?

5) Tec0 suggests we stop. I agree to stop, so does he.

I stopped talking to you, I just replied to what someone else said..

6) The dog returns to his vomit, again with a witless and inane post

I thought it was clever..:embarrass

7) Enter amsah fanboys. I can;t wait to see you get ***** hard at p4.

I can't wait to disappoint you..


[edit]

The point is amsah brought it back to life and needs to get off of my nuts.

Weren't you ignoring me? :embarrass

Besides, as I've said, in your thread and in this thread with both the Peach & the Doc discussion you started it.

 

[gm jack]

While you are putting together good evidence, he has a lot of experience on his side. As he pointed out, for some of your videos, people use different tactics. The game isn't straight rock, paper, scissors. Most of the situations you pointed out where a certain tactic (e.g. tilting pills) was bad, there were other reasons he pointed out which allowed him to be punished. As you demonstrated, you can win by avoiding the pills altogether. However, surely it is best to know all the options even if they aren't all perfect? Tilting a pill may be a bad idea is some situations, but in others, it will be the best option available.

However, sad as it if for you, Amsah goes out and wins stuff. I don't think you regularly place in international tournaments (correct me if I'm wrong). When Amsah, one of the best Sheiks in europe, plays the best peach in the world for a long period of time, you would hope that any positive things in the matchup would come up. Sadly, in PAL, Sheik really does get destroyed that badly. Hell, spamming Dsmash with Peach can cause you problems if you aren't careful. While for most people, it is winnable (possibly evenish in NSTC if Dthrow to Uair is as good as some make it out to be), the matchup should concern the top of the metagame. This means Peach at her best, not making mistakes.

Peach really does kill everything Sheik normally does well. No tech-chasing, chaingrabbing, not nearly as many combos, camping etc. Plus, a floating peach at the right levels with a turnip is a wall. While other top and high tiers have the tool sto deal with it, Sheik has a really hard time when everything that makes her good is gone.

 

[GOD!]

He only has international experience in europe, he's never been to a US tourney, so calling him international when he goes around his own continent doesn't mean that much.

He is an expert at misinterpreting and lying about what I say. Maybe he's actually mentally challenged and if so amsah, I feel bad about dissing your comprehension skills.
I don't contradict myself (if I did then show me examples please), I don't think my sheiks better than yours, but I think placing better doesn't mean anything when you're talking about matchup specific things (docs pills). I think I just showed that tilting a pill is not the smart thing to do because other things are way better and are not punishable.

maybe the matchup is 70-30 or something, but just because he gets destroyed by the best player in the world only reflects on him.. do other pal sheiks get destroyed by pal peaches that place around the same?

amsah, amsah, amsah, telling someone else that I'm stupid is still flaming. I hope you understand this.

And you actually do disagree with what I say, because I say tilting a pill is always bad when they are pill rushing you. You don't have doc match up experience. So as much as you want to believe that cause you beat most of Europe you know the doc match up, I'm sorry, you're wrong.

 

[gm jack]

He only has international experience in europe, he's never been to a US tourney, so calling him international when he goes around his own continent doesn't mean that much.

And as Armada showed, Europe isn't really that bad at all. I wouldn't be surprised if several of the european players going to pound place well, depending on how the brackets pan out.

Though on the point, how many North American players regularly go to other continents?

He is an expert at misinterpreting and lying about what I say. Maybe he's actually mentally challenged and if so amsah, I feel bad about dissing your comprehension skills.
I don't contradict myself (if I did then show me examples please), I don't think my sheiks better than yours, but I think placing better doesn't mean anything when you're talking about matchup specific things (docs pills). I think I just showed that tilting a pill is not the smart thing to do because other things are way better and are not punishable.

While you are right that tilting can be punished, it does have it's advantages. Namely, you are where you want to be. If you see a Doc has mistimed a pill, you could be able to tilt it and return to a neutral state to destroy the approach as you wish. If you run away, you are back where you started, with less space to run away to.

maybe the matchup is 70-30 or something, but just because he gets destroyed by the best player in the world only reflects on him.. do other pal sheiks get destroyed by pal peaches that place around the same?

I've only played in London, where there aren't many good peaches, though a couple of decent players have taken Peach up. However, when they fight sheik, they tend to play the matchup wrong. My Dsmash spamming gf makes for a more frustrating match than people float cancelling all over. I did better against good player who tried to mix things up more as I had responses to some of their options.. Others are very tricky to react to, through little to no player fault.

Essentially, all of Peaches tricks give Sheik a really hard time, while none of Sheiks are effective, if they work at all.

And Amsah did say that he did better with other characters, which generally indicated a much improved matchup.

amsah, amsah, amsah, telling someone else that I'm stupid is still flaming. I hope you understand this.

And you actually do disagree with what I say, because I say tilting a pill is always bad when they are pill rushing you. You don't have doc match up experience. So as much as you want to believe that cause you beat most of Europe you know the doc match up, I'm sorry, you're wrong.

The general assumption is that he has had to beat a fair few docs over time. As he explained, and I have experienced, tilting a pill can be the best option. Others, I run, or just crouch under it. It's a situation which doesn't have a single answer.

 

[GOD!]

I don't think any NA players need to travel. I'm not saying that he is necessarily bad because he's international (he's good but so are a lot of americans), just that the scenes really don't compare.

Idk if you should assume he's beaten any good docs. Even if he has, that doesn't mean he knows the best way to fight them. As he pointed out, masashi doesn't waveshine but he still beats people. That doesn't mean that waveshining wouldn't help his game, right?

Well everything you said made sense. Maybe it works in some situations, I just haven't seen them.
The problem is that amsah just won't quit harrassing me.

 

[Nihonjin]

*Deletes*

~Nevermind I'm going to bed..:embarrass

 

[Lordydennek]

Oh I'm not a fanboy, I was just pointing out that between swears and insults, you managed to say you knew when to drop something when you clearly didn't.

Dog returns to his vomit is a good one.
So is God returns to his timov.

wait what?

epic. High Five!!!!!

 

[Wiggins]

Am i in the right thread? I could've sworn that this was the SHIEK Q&A THREAD.

 

[Lordydennek]

Am i in the right thread? I could've sworn that this was the SHIEK Q&A THREAD.

Youre right. Its also the place we go to vent aparently.

Does it seem like marth can avoid needles better than most chars?

 

[Mind Trick]

I don't think any NA players need to travel. I'm not saying that he is necessarily bad because he's international (he's good but so are a lot of americans), just that the scenes really don't compare.

Idk if you should assume he's beaten any good docs. Even if he has, that doesn't mean he knows the best way to fight them. As he pointed out, masashi doesn't waveshine but he still beats people. That doesn't mean that waveshining wouldn't help his game, right?

Well everything you said made sense. Maybe it works in some situations, I just haven't seen them.
The problem is that amsah just won't quit harrassing me.

I lol'd at this post
What do you mean exactly with scenes don't compare?

Europe has in fact at least one really good doc player and he so happens to live in our country :O
I'll just leave these links behind:
Nnja vs Dave
Amsah vs Dave
Notice how Nnja is mostly avoiding the pills, while Amsah actually challenges them at times, 1:23 for example.

 

[Lordydennek]

well FD is a horrible place to play doc imo. but it seemed like Ninjas runing away was punished A LOT

 

[KirbyKaze]

Provided Amsah's vs Doc game has improved since that vid, I pity whatever surgeons he has to play.

 

[GOD!]

I lol'd at this post
What do you mean exactly with scenes don't compare?

The scenes don't compare simply means that being a top player in one scene doesn't mean you'll be good in another.

Amsah's tilted pills during this match: 0.
Faired pills: 3.
Vid date: 2 years and three months ago.
Idk what this was supposed to prove.. other than there's a doc player in sweden.

 

[Nihonjin]

Thanks for finding the vids Mind Trick, was a little too lazy to do it myself.
But now that you did I figured I might as well point out somethings to Mr.GOD..

Match 2
0:05 - 1:42 (avoided pill and got hit lol)

Attacking the pills
??????
Profit

Match 3
1:54

Attacking the pills
???????
Profit

Match 4
0:05 - 1:30 - 1:45

Attacking the pills
???????
Profit

Happy now? Situations where attacking the pills worked..:embarrass

Sure, I didn't actually tilt any of them, but this is from 2 years ago so you'll just have to take my word for it..

The scenes don't compare simply means that being a top player in one scene doesn't mean you'll be good in another.

Looking at Armada and Mango, my guess is our scenes are very similar.

But yeah, you're right. Just because HungryBox ***** in America, doesn't necessarily mean he'd make it through pools in Europe..=D

Idk what this was supposed to prove.. other than there's a doc player in sweden.

I'm not Swedish..=D

 

[Lordydennek]

MT is tho. thats what GOD was getting at. that doc is from Holland. once knew a kid from there. he was in my 10th grade history class. by the name of Chelston.

 

[Nihonjin]

MT is tho. thats what GOD was getting at. that doc is from Holland. once knew a kid from there. he was in my 10th grade history class. by the name of Chelston.

Mind Trick isn't Swedish either... :embarrass

 

[Mind Trick]

I'm Swedish?
Surprisingly people have asked me before if I have Swedish roots

 

[Lordydennek]

wait...oh man. im so confused. I thought you were from holland MT my bad. who knows you could be

 

[Nihonjin]

He is, but Holland isn't part of Sweden..

 

[Mind Trick]

I am lol

 

[Lordydennek]

He is, but Holland isn't part of Sweden..

Totally knew that! just testing everyones geography... **** that didnt help the american image. its late.... and im tired....and i have an out of date map.

Mt you are from Holland? ok good. i thought i was crazy. now i know i just didnt pay attention in 8th grade geo

 

[Teczer0]

Attention All

Do not quote and/or talk about Amsah's/God's post regarding each other.

I'm warning everyone right now, it'll result in an infraction for spam.

I love you guys, and I have faith in all of you. Don't make me feel like a moron. <3

 

[h!tboxexplo!ter]

Totally knew that! just testing everyones geography... **** that didnt help the american image. its late.... and im tired....and i have an out of date map.

what no dont listen to them lordy northern europe is all just one country

ok heres my questioin since we have so many pal sheiks. Why is sheik the highest char on the tier list if she is missing her epic downthrow?

 

[Nihonjin]

Because our list is outdated, and when it was made CJ and I were the dominant force of the scene..=]

 

[DJRome]

amsah, according to europe tournaments (and assuming tier lists represent the success of chars in tourney), what is europes tier list? and what are the most unplayed matchups in europe that america is better at?

 

[soap]

Totally knew that! just testing everyones geography... **** that didnt help the american image. its late.... and im tired....and i have an out of date map.

lol johnsssss

its whatever though

i doubt amsah could name all 50 states + capitals

cuz i can't

I did in like 4th grade, got a 100 on that test

 

[Mind Trick]

amsah, according to europe tournaments (and assuming tier lists represent the success of chars in tourney), what is europes tier list? and what are the most unplayed matchups in europe that america is better at?

This was made early '07:
1.
Sheik
Falco
Fox
Marth
Peach

2.
Captain Falcon
Ice Climbers
Samus
Jigglypuff
Dr. Mario
Ganondorf
Mario

3.
Luigi
Link
Yoshi
Roy
Donkey Kong
Pikachu

4.
Young Link
Mr. Game & Watch
Zelda
Ness
Bowser
Kirby
Pichu
Mewtwo

The top/high should be now imo (if we look at top players here):

Fox/Sheik
Falco/Marth
Jigglypuff/Peach
Captain Falcon

Of course there's this one anomaly called Armada xD

Nobody plays mid/low tier really lol except for a few.
Yoshi is kinda high compared to ntsc list, probably because of svampen at the time and he got kinda buffed in PAL.

 

[Requiem]

God ****it Tec0 you just totally ruined my fun : (.


Now I have nothing to laugh about at my internship.

 

[h!tboxexplo!ter]

so one more time how does sheik do so well without her grab combos?

 

[gm jack]

so one more time how does sheik do so well without her grab combos?

She still has them. They just aren't as good. A lot more tech chasing fast fallers as opposed to chaingrabbing.

Also, many characters would kill for just one of her other moves. Grabs are just one of her assets.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Wait she can chain grab fast fallers?

O_O