Seconded, even more so in PAL.
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Q&A Sheik Strategy & QnA
- Thread starter KirbyKaze
- Start date
kpat
Smash Rookie
I have a few questions (again..)
1. Doctor Mario. I know that the key is to grab and gimp. Im just having a more difficult time comboing doc due to his floatiness. At 0% I get a grab and from there depending on DI, do I just Up-smash/fair?
Are there any good combo starters I can use against a doc? For some reason playing against my obviously worse friend, I have a hard time with this matchup..
2. Approaches. I know this is very character determinant, but my approaches aren't as good as I would like. Seemingly my approach is shield > grab haha. I know about shffling aerials, needles, grabs, smashes, and tilts. I just have a hard time knowing when to use which approach.
This is probably a bad question, I just don't know how to phrase it well.
1. Doctor Mario. I know that the key is to grab and gimp. Im just having a more difficult time comboing doc due to his floatiness. At 0% I get a grab and from there depending on DI, do I just Up-smash/fair?
Are there any good combo starters I can use against a doc? For some reason playing against my obviously worse friend, I have a hard time with this matchup..
2. Approaches. I know this is very character determinant, but my approaches aren't as good as I would like. Seemingly my approach is shield > grab haha. I know about shffling aerials, needles, grabs, smashes, and tilts. I just have a hard time knowing when to use which approach.
This is probably a bad question, I just don't know how to phrase it well.
h!tboxexplo!ter
Smash Ace
ive always seen%
sigh... lets try that again
sheik can basically do everything fox can ergo, she should have the advantage but maybe not as heavy of one.
sigh... lets try that again
sheik can basically do everything fox can ergo, she should have the advantage but maybe not as heavy of one.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
My bible against Doc.
Also, I used to think the same way about ground game and whatever, but then I tried the Shroomed-recommended strategy of just back air against Doc and it works really well. Bair combos into grab, beats all his moves except his invincible ones, and does like 14%. It can't be CC punished, and it even sets up edgeguards. It's awesome.
Remember to mix in gay Fairs, needles, DD boost grab, CC D-smash/grab, WD back F-tilt, and a lot of shielding but Bair should be your main thing against Doc.
Grab is a good combo starter. If he ever tries to do air stuff against you, WD back F-tilt or D-tilt are also good combo starters. Punishing his lag from an aerial or something with dash attack is reasonable, but grab is usually better. Beyond those... no. Because anything else would imply you're approaching into his close range zone, where he potentially ***** you with chain grab and stubby limbs, please don't do that.
Sheik sucks at approaching directly, in most cases.
Having said that, she has a few good ones. DD boost grab is incredible, but typically you should be focused on keeping your space so your moves on block (or hit, or whatever) are unpunishable.
Doc can mess you up real bad in close combat but if you never let it come to close combat and simply wreck him from mid-range, he's pretty screwed. Also, your grab is longer than him.
gm jack
Smash Lord
What's wrong with good old running away, needling when appropriate and Bairing as necessary to get more space? When Jiggs can't WoP effectively (I find Bair tends to make spacing a pain in the *** for my jiggs), her options get limited quickly. Sheik is never going to have the matchup easy, just due to how much **** jiggs can dish out for a single mistake.
However, I think Sheik is generally the safer character in the matchup, but the match us bought even by the **** a bad techroll can cost you. If jiggs was heavier, it would definitely be in her favour, but as it stands, on most stages, I think the limited number of hits Sheik needs to get a kill means it is a fairly even fight.
DJRome
Smash Hero
i think it's something like, bair vs bair, jiggs bair=disjoing=win
or
bair. . . lag=jiggs bair
or
bair. . . lag=jiggs bair
Ftilt, utilt, fair, bair, nair, needle or chain..:embarrass
>_> nair and chain are much to laggy to deal with the spam but the rest will suffice. MAYBE.
Dorsey
Banned via Warnings
I'm disappointed that amsah has these lopsided opinions about match-ups. You're just admitting and embracing defeat, even if you're right about everything you say. I've been seriously wondering when you were going to win a set against armada for quite some time and after reading your match-up biases it actually makes sense why you haven't now.
I'm not trying to re-kindle any past arguments, it's just the first time I've seen this stuff about peach and puff. I think you're a great player, amsah. I just wish you would mostly attempt to overcome stuff like that instead of placing fault in the match-up.. idk, a defeatist attitude / mental block on a match-up will definitely hold you back, imo.
I'm not trying to re-kindle any past arguments, it's just the first time I've seen this stuff about peach and puff. I think you're a great player, amsah. I just wish you would mostly attempt to overcome stuff like that instead of placing fault in the match-up.. idk, a defeatist attitude / mental block on a match-up will definitely hold you back, imo.
I feel like the doc matchup is really easy with sheik.. why isn't it >>>doc though?
If you have platforms, you can just run away the entire match and bair a few times, needle some, and that's it.
Doc can't CC anything sheik does (unless it's a poorly spaced ftilt or nair). Grab = 20-30% every time. And when doc is off the ledge and has used his second jump, you just jump off and bair. No need to sweetspot, even if you get hit with the up-b, they're still dead.
Doc has.... dthrow to dsmash over 50%? His pillrush works if you stay on the same level as him, and even then you can just dash attack under them and hit him. He has no good counterpicks, and a whole lot of bad stages...
I guess he has bair gimp. But the matchup should be sheik>>>doc.
If you have platforms, you can just run away the entire match and bair a few times, needle some, and that's it.
Doc can't CC anything sheik does (unless it's a poorly spaced ftilt or nair). Grab = 20-30% every time. And when doc is off the ledge and has used his second jump, you just jump off and bair. No need to sweetspot, even if you get hit with the up-b, they're still dead.
Doc has.... dthrow to dsmash over 50%? His pillrush works if you stay on the same level as him, and even then you can just dash attack under them and hit him. He has no good counterpicks, and a whole lot of bad stages...
I guess he has bair gimp. But the matchup should be sheik>>>doc.
Dorsey
Banned via Warnings
Yeah but doc has stuff he can do to sheik... I feel very comfortable playing doc too as sheik, but against a very good doc that's also knowledgeable in the match-up?? I mean doc's cg is semi-legit on sheik, right? As in it do-able from 0-60% about (correct me if I'm wrong). He has other approaches that don't get shut down every time either. I think that in the best possible scenario for dock it could be in between > and >>, but >> is definitely good.
Lordydennek
Smash Ace
KK, Seanson's hitbox thing isnt working. all i can see is Sheiks jabs. i cant switch attacks. is it the site or just my computer????
Lordydennek
Smash Ace
Im pretty sure he was joking about the matchup. Its armada that he's facing here. you have to remeber that. Some players can utilize chars better than others. Armada obviously knows peach real well. Amsah has beat other peaches. therefore its armada not peach just like its mango not puff. although puff is broken
DJRome
Smash Hero
i asked h box about it at rom and the way he and doh described vs sheik, it didn't seem bad, tho i don't think they play any good sheiks regularly either. admittedly, puff seems like if played correctly, holds more promise than peach at the highest level simply because peach tech is mad beast and fast
gm jack
Smash Lord
Hang on, so is Sheik doesn't do great vs either puff or peach (especially in PAL), what is keeping her top tier? She can keep up with the spacies and beat Marth and Falcon?
I was obviously joking with the chain. My point was that nearly everything Sheik does works against Docs pills.
Just tilt or bair them.
Just because I don't think I can beat Armada level Peaches with Sheik means I'm admitting defeat. I can play different characters you know... :embarrass
Quite some time? I only lost twice (I count Epita and Smack as one tournament because they were so close together) and the first time I hadn't played the game in a year and was rusty as **** so that barely counts..lol
What do you think I've been doing ever since I first lost to Armada? It's just that the more I look into it, the more it looks like Peach has a significant advantage against Sheik. And though I want to beat Armada with Sheik (because of my sense of pride), rather than trying to find ways to overcome the problems I run in to, it's much easier to just switch characters (for now).
That doesn't mean I gave up on Sheik, I love Sheik, I'd much rather play her than any other character, but I have to be realistic too and it's not looking good.
We'll see at Pound..=]
Dorsey
Banned via Warnings
lol I almost put 'several months' but I decided to put quite some time instead
I know you've tried plenty to overcome what I suggested amsah(why I said mostly), and I also know it's tough especially against armada. I was just posting, because seemingly I thought that a defeatist attitude with armada was contributing towards your match-up opinions v. peach. Sorry if I was wrong, and if you're planning to char switch against him then I am. As for you v. arm, from my perspective, apparently I think that your sheik is more capable of overtaking him than you do yourself.
I know you've tried plenty to overcome what I suggested amsah(why I said mostly), and I also know it's tough especially against armada. I was just posting, because seemingly I thought that a defeatist attitude with armada was contributing towards your match-up opinions v. peach. Sorry if I was wrong, and if you're planning to char switch against him then I am. As for you v. arm, from my perspective, apparently I think that your sheik is more capable of overtaking him than you do yourself.
lol I almost put 'several months' but I decided to put quite some time instead
That's exactly what I'm planning..(though I'll probably use Sheik at least one match due to my messed up sense of pride and the fact that I'm starting to forget how bad that match up really is..
)We'll see at pound..:embarrass
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
I don't even use the program anymore, I just look at the images so I can't help you.
Maybe bump the thread and ask?
I have the same problem Lordydennek.
I downloaded the latest java and it didn't help. I'm using firefox, maybe other browsers show the different attacks. The jab for most characters shows, but non of the other moves.
So what I do is just type in the link for each frame of a move and then look at the next frame, and the next. It's a pain but it still helps.
I downloaded the latest java and it didn't help. I'm using firefox, maybe other browsers show the different attacks. The jab for most characters shows, but non of the other moves.
So what I do is just type in the link for each frame of a move and then look at the next frame, and the next. It's a pain but it still helps.
h!tboxexplo!ter
Smash Ace
ill upload or find the link i have to an older one he has that works once i get back in birmingham.
also
i believe shiek is top tier because she is slightly better or stupidly better against the entire cast minus fox, falco, and perhaps jiggs, peach, and the icies. the last three are more doable than the spacies imo.
sheiks good it just blows that there are so many foxes running around.
also
worst case scenario sheik=peach ntsc
i believe shiek is top tier because she is slightly better or stupidly better against the entire cast minus fox, falco, and perhaps jiggs, peach, and the icies. the last three are more doable than the spacies imo.
sheiks good it just blows that there are so many foxes running around.
Rofl, this doesn't work if a docs using pillrush. Pill cancels your move, you lag, doc is right behind the pill ->dsmash. And repeat. This is not how to deal with pills, unless the doc is sitting far away spamming them... and why should he even be shooting them if you're needling him?
johns johns johns johns johns johns johns :embarrass
Tilting pills definitely does work regardless what doc does with them.
Just walk up tilt and hit doc during the lag of his pill.
Or if you see Doc rushing at you can nair and it'll hit him and the pill at the same time.
When he full hop pill approaches you, he isn't lagging when the pill is near the ground.
Plus your move gets canceled and you lag... I've played several docs, and one of them always got around me fairing his pills.
Edit: yeah you can nair. or you could just run under him -> dsmash. Idk, whatever works for the specific doc.
If he full hops at you and pills out of full hop just run away. His full hop is way too high.
If you aerial a pill your move goes right through the pill. Just jump at Doc while aerialing he doesn't have a lot aerial mobility while he is in the pill animation.
If you tilt the move cancels and there is very very very minimal lag. It practically has no lag in order to get punished for it you'd have to mindlessly tilt a pill while doc already started his fair at you.
soap
Smash Hero
hahahahahaha, m2k where u at?
and nobody cared
i miss junglefever
puff looks bad on paper i guess, but it always felt kinda easy fighting them. sheik has needles, no lag, a big *** shield and a dtilt. Make it work
Yes it does, you have no idea what you're talking about. :embarrass
What part..? =D
I admitted I lost and stated a fact.
Honestly, I think it's about time you give up on trying to make me look bad. Your attempts are about as bad as your ability to edgeguard..or...center-of-the-stage-guard or whatever the hell it is you try to accomplish by running away from the edge. Either way, just stop.
:embarrass
Um no, do you even play docs?? I don't even care if you answer yes. Cause:embarrass you should know that if you just ftilt pillrush you'll get ****ed up.. you obv have no match :embarrassup experience and are talking hypothetically, not realizing that human smash brothers adapt to match-ups.. therefore you need more than "ftilt pills.":embarrass Cause you'll get ***** if you keep doing it.
:embarrassJohns are usually facts.:embarrassWhat part..? =D
I admitted I lost and stated a fact.
I'm not trying to make you look bad. As if I care how you :embarrasslook.. I think if people look at your sig they'll know that. I mean, your face is..... so beautiful.
Oh wait, that was one of the first times I ever played sheik. Oh wait:embarrass, Now I actually know how to play him... I used to suck with sheik but now I'm way better with her.:embarrass
What:embarrass happens when you play shroomed:embarrass and get ***** and then say that the doc vs sheik matchup is unwinnable...:embarrass
Just because you suck..lol Well, you know the rest.
Not really..lol
That's Mango..
Way better than you used to be is still horribly bad..=D
Like I said, just stop, we're getting into a ******** discussion again where I make you look dumb and you make yourself look even dumber. It'll only get both of us infracted for spam.
Stop using my smiley you petty thieve
I've just played the match up so much that I don't get *****. I said "you'll." As in you. Not me.Just because you suck..lol Well, you know the rest.
Not really..lol
That's Mango..
Way better than you used to be is still horribly bad..=D
Like I said, stop trying..
"my hands were cold. My controller is new. I'm rusty. I didn't get a lot of sleep." Lol lol l o l j o h n s :embarrass
embarrass = f :embarrass a :embarrass c :embarrass t :embarrass sActually, it could mean I am horribly bad or ridiculously good. Or anywhere in between.
Well at least it was mango that i called beautiful
embarrass
Why is it everytime i come in here you two are fighting.
h!tboxexplo!ter
Smash Ace
zomg so many red faces... connect 4 anyone? 
lol.
It's true, I was rusty and couldn't even L-cancel properly. Never did I claim I would have won had that not been the case though, which would turn a simple fact into a John."my hands were cold. My controller is new. I'm rusty. I didn't get a lot of sleep." Lol lol l o l j o h n s :embarrass
I bet you improved loads playing CPU Fox..
Uhuh.Well at least it was mango that i called beautiful
Didn't anyone ever teach you to cut your losses? :embarrass
Because he's butthurt..
7 across 6 highzomg so many red faces... connect 4 anyone?
.......
.......
.......
.......
.......
...:embarrass...
also, both amsah and god are ******s
^Only to this God guy, but he's an ******* so it's ok..
Amsah/God! - Do me a favor and drop this fighting. I will give both of you infractions if you guys drag it out.
well i mean I'm sure you're good and being good at smash is mad homo so you're also a ******^Only to this God guy, but he's an ******* so it's ok..