Q&A Sheik Strategy & QnA

[Dorsey]

Yeah DIing during the 2nd hit definitely matters. At low %'s you would want to DI down and away off the 2nd hit in order to tech away from the knee(or whatever hit)... away isn't too bad either, or a direction towards a platform you could tech off of, more so at higher %'s. The amount of DI away or down/away is also dependent on where he hits you(grounded or airborne) in addition to your %, or at least I would assume.

 

[nicaboy]

Tell that to Skler and have him stop beating me

And I disagree with not CPing CF with YS.

Every falcon I fight bans FoD so I end up CPing YS practically all the time

he can like seriously beat you with link? Like you would worry about him in tournament? With link? I didn't know he was that good .

 

[Teczer0]

I... actually dunno though the 2 times I played him I lost. (Once in doubles once in singles >_<)

He's a very good link player to say the least.

I have improved quite a bit since I played him so maybe I can. Who knows, I love Skler though so if I can't its ok <333

And in relation to the DIing CF's nair matter:

Try to DI falcon's nair away, doesn't matter which hit. The second hit is generally the one you want to be more aware of because its typically what they land with and its capable of sending you farther.

The first hit is "light" so its very difficult to manipulate your trajectory off of it anyway.

 

[Spife]

psh Skler's the best link on the ec no problem.
He's also the Sheik Slaya :D

 

[earla]

melee pal-

v falco- what are your best approaches?
what do you do about their nair approaches?
what do you do about their dair approaches?

v fox - what are your best approaches?
what do you do about their nair approach?
what do you do about their dair approach?

cheers

 

[nicaboy]

Lol spife i aint scared of now mofo link bruh! @ teczero so humble i see its admirable. Too bad i have this play to win mentality. I hate losing alot really <.<. Especialy when they are close matches.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Haley add this post to the front page

=================================

SHEIK FRAME DATA

by SuperDoodleMan

-------------------------------------
Slice 1

Total: 17
Hit: 2-3
IASA: 16
Window for second slice: 3-25
Second slice begins: 10 (or later)
-------------------------------------
Slice 2

Total: 18
Hit: 3-5
IASA: 17
Window for jabs: 2-18
Jabs start: 10
-------------------------------------
Jabs

Later...
-------------------------------------
F Tilt

Total: 29
Hit: 5-10
IASA: 27
-------------------------------------
D Tilt

Total: 29
Hit: 5-8
IASA: 28
-------------------------------------
U Tilt

Total: 33
Hit: 5-10, 19-24
IASA: 26
-------------------------------------
F Smash

Total: 50
Hit: 12, 27-29
Charge frame: 5
IASA: 46
-------------------------------------
U Smash

Total: 47
Hit: 12, 14-16
Charge frame: 10
Head and forearms invincible: 12-16
IASA: 40
-------------------------------------
D Smash

Total: 49
Hit: 5-9, 16-19, 22-24
Charge frame: 2
Legs invincible: 5
IASA: 46
-------------------------------------
Dash attack

Total: 37
Hit: 6-12
IASA: 36
-------------------------------------
N-Air

Total: 48
Hit: 3-30
IASA: 42
Auto cancel: <2 31>
Landlag: 16
L canceled: 8
-------------------------------------
U-Air

Total: 39
Hit: 5-20
IASA: 37
Auto cancel: <4 30>
Landlag: 24
L canceled: 12
-------------------------------------
B-Air

Total: 37
Hit: 4-19
Auto cancel: <3 25>
Landlag: 16
L canceled: 8
-------------------------------------
D-Air

Total: 48
Hit: 15-33
Auto cancel: <2
Landlag: 20
L canceled: 10
-------------------------------------
F-Air

Total: 33
Hit: 5-7
Auto cancel: <4 11>
Landlag: 16
L canceled: 8
-------------------------------------
Grab

Total: 30
Grab: 7-8
-------------------------------------
Running grab

Total: 40
Grab: 8-9
-------------------------------------
Needle Storm

Holding 1st needle: 8
Set that frame as 1.
Another needle at 19
Set that as 1 (etc)
Releasing B at frame 1 counts with
new needle.

When you release B…
Needles released at 4, 7, 10, 13, 16,
19
Last frame: 40

When fired from the air…
Needles released at 11, 14, 17, 20,
23, 26
Auto cancels when landed
Last frame: 39

Needles last 30 frames
-------------------------------------
Chain

Comes out on 22
Fully extended at 34
Earliest retraction starts on 44

Upon B release…
Pullin hurt: 19-31 (sooner if
swingin)
Last frame: 41
-------------------------------------
Transform

Total: 62
Invulnerable: 27-36
First frame of Zelda: 37

(Zelda's Transform is not the same)
-------------------------------------
Vanish

Total: 94
Hit: 36-42
Invincible: 18-55
The frame of choosing direction: 35
Landlag: 30
Landfallspeciallag: 4
-------------------------------------
Taunt

Total: 100
Hmm!: 23
-------------------------------------

Jump
Airborne on frame 4

Air time: 50
Earliest FF hold: 23
Earliest actual FF: 26
FF air time: 37

SH air time: 38
Earliest FF hold: 17
Earliest actual FF: 20
SH FF air time: 27


Air Dodge
Invulnerable 4-29 out of 49

Ground dodge
Invulnerable 2-15 out of 22

Roll
Invulnerable 4-19 out of 31

Landlag: 4

Dash becomes run at frame 8
Turn-jump Threshold: 21
Run turnaround: 21

=================================

FRAME DATA WITH PICTURES

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=2076716&postcount=1

=================================

FRAME DATA FOR THROWS

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=5896010&postcount=1

=================================

FRAME DATA FOR TECHS AND GET-UPS

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=5896012

=================================

 

[h!tboxexplo!ter]

kirbykaze i didnt want to say this and get flamed in the matchup thread so ill say it in the saftey of the ninja lair. I think that basically all the matchup ratings that sheik is ranked for are listed as 1 lower than they actually are except :fox,falco,icies, and maybe marth. butttt that would make sheik number one on the match up thread (zomg conspiracy theories).
if nothing i feel that kirby,mewtwo,jiggs, and younglink are off by 1

 

[KirbyKaze]

kirbykaze i didnt want to say this and get flamed in the matchup thread so ill say it in the saftey of the ninja lair. I think that basically all the matchup ratings that sheik is ranked for are listed as 1 lower than they actually are except :fox,falco,icies, and maybe marth. butttt that would make sheik number one on the match up thread (zomg conspiracy theories).
if nothing i feel that kirby,mewtwo,jiggs, and younglink are off by 1

I think

< Fox
< Falco
< Puff
> or >> Marth
> Peach
>> Falcon
= or < or > Ice Climbers (don't know)
>> Ganon
>> Doc
>> Mario
>> Samus

And then the rest of the cast doesn't really matter.

I guess if I had to, I'd say that she >>> most of them. By some mix of camping, chain grab, range, edgeguarding, crouch cancel, etc.

Sheik definitely >>> Kirby, the matchup is completely horrible in every way.

 

[Dorsey]

That's exactly how I feel, kirby. But if there was a way to distinguish falco having slightly less of an advantage than puff and fox do I would probably do that.

 

[Nihonjin]

I think

< Fox
= Falco *
< Puff
>>>> Marth *
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Peach *
>> Falcon
= or < or > Ice Climbers (don't know)
>> Ganon
>> Doc
>> Mario
>> Samus

Fixed..:embarrass

 

[h!tboxexplo!ter]

yeah dorsey and kk i agree with all that, the falco bit too. i think sheik should at least = jiggs tho but meh no biggie

 

[Teczer0]

Its because everyone views match ups a little differently.

Its fine for you to feel a little different about certain match ups.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Amsah, you could say Sheik <<<<<< any character, assuming the user of latter character is significantly better than the Sheik player.

Example of this logic:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWKXw8XHN-s

zomg Fox <<<<<<<<< DK.

No, Spawn is just <<<<<<<<<< Cort.

 

[Teczer0]

He gave reasons why he thought peach is better a while ago though, its not unjustified >_>.

I think we all have too much trouble seeing Amsah's points.

Why do we have to go in circles?

 

[ChivalRuse]

I saw his reasons, Haley. I just felt like they were only valid against Armada's Peach. But I'm probably wrong.

 

[Teczer0]

Well its just what happens when you deal with theory smash really.

We have to forget about player vs player limitations to an extent and just deal with common scenarios and you know all that other stuff.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I'm aware people will tell me Sheik > or = Puff. I tastefully disagree. I think Puff shuts down Sheik more than vice versa. Having said that, I could accept > or = on a general chart purely because I'm aware I'm in the minority.

Peach vs Sheik might be bad at that level but I don't know because I've never played it. I've never played against a Peach with a ground game that couldn't be solved by good old-fashioned DD boost grab, D-smash, and other gayness from Sheik but then again I've never played Armada.

 

[Teczer0]

Well all of you are wrong, because I'm the moderator so whatever I say must be 100% correct.

Stop thinking differently than me.

...

Puff <<<<<<<<<<<< sheik
Peach does a dance on stadium but still loses to pichu

Ok I lied.

 

[Nihonjin]

Amsah, you could say Sheik <<<<<< any character, assuming the user of latter character is significantly better than the Sheik player.

Example of this logic:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWKXw8XHN-s

zomg Fox <<<<<<<<< DK.

No, Spawn is just <<<<<<<<<< Cort.

Now you're just insulting me.

 

[-Jumpman-]

Lol, Amsah <<<<<<<<<<<<<<< armada? hahahahhaa

 

[Devil Ray]

sheik's matchup against the spacies is still pretty good. outside of sheik, how many characters do that well against both spacies? maybe only marth? that's how i look at it.

the puff and peach matchups aren't bad at all. to me, it's sheik's advantage for sure. i haven't seen anything yet that says puff or peach **** sheik

 

[ChivalRuse]

Armada is to Amsah as Mango is to M2K (in my humble opinion, of course).

 

[Nihonjin]

Armada is to Amsah as Mango is to M2K (in my humble opinion, of course).

Are you suggesting I'll keep losing for the next couple of years? :embarrass

 

[Teczer0]

Are you suggesting I'll keep losing for the next couple of years? :embarrass

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

Don't go to Brawl cuz of Armada, Amsah

 

[SPAWN]

Amsah, you could say Sheik <<<<<< any character, assuming the user of latter character is significantly better than the Sheik player.

Example of this logic:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWKXw8XHN-s

zomg Fox <<<<<<<<< DK.

No, Spawn WAS <<<<<<<<<< Cort.

Lol @ posting vids 2 years ago of me. My fox was so terrible then.

Freaking Cort is still too good now even though he hardly ever plays.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Sorry, Spawn! I was just trying to make a point.

 

[SPAWN]

It's alright. Just wanted to clarify that I'm not that caliber of terrible anymore haha.

 

[KirbyKaze]

sheik's matchup against the spacies is still pretty good. outside of sheik, how many characters do that well against both spacies? maybe only marth? that's how i look at it.

the puff and peach matchups aren't bad at all. to me, it's sheik's advantage for sure. i haven't seen anything yet that says puff or peach **** sheik

I'm aware we'll never see eye to eye on Sheik Puff. I'm also aware that I've explained my position on the matter, and don't really feel like doing it again.

Sheik is okay against space animals but I don't think she wins. I think that's why I have it as < and not << or something.

 

[SPAWN]

I pretty much agree with KK.

Also what is slice 1/2 or whatever that you posted?

 

[Plairnkk]

ive been playing almost exclusively puff as my secondary for the past 4 months or so, and shes gotten pretty good. after realizing the weaknesses and strengths of both puff and sheik, im gonna have to say puff really does have a pretty good advantage over sheik. i used to think sheik ***** her, but im gonna have to say its like 60/40 puff.


amsah prolly will do better against mango/hbox anyway though cuz we rely so heavily on grabs over here

 

[KirbyKaze]

Slice 1 = initial Jab
Slice 2 = second hit of the Jab combo

And it was the frame data for Sheik's moveset.

I decided to compile a bunch of it because I'm tired of answering frame data questions. I figured if we had a post to direct people to, like many other fighting games, we can cut down on the number of questions specifically asking for frame data. It likely won't do anything about the people asking for what it means, but oh well.

 

[Nihonjin]

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

Don't go to Brawl cuz of Armada, Amsah

I have my pride you know..:embarrass

Sorry, Spawn! I was just trying to make a point.

A very bad one..

 

[SPAWN]

Ah, thanks for clarifying.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

Sheik boards I'm baaaack

 

[KirbyKaze]

I just realized there actually is a section on frame data in the OP and that nobody actually never checks the OP.

Silly me, I forgot one of the fundamental rules of Smashboards :embarrass

 

[Devil Ray]

ive been playing almost exclusively puff as my secondary for the past 4 months or so, and shes gotten pretty good. after realizing the weaknesses and strengths of both puff and sheik, im gonna have to say puff really does have a pretty good advantage over sheik. i used to think sheik ***** her, but im gonna have to say its like 60/40 puff.

whoa, did everyone just skip that post? plank, i can't believe that you've been using puff AND thinks she ***** sheik. wtf. those two things shouldn't happen....

i'm tempted to try using puff now, just to see what the hooplah is about.... but i'll never pick up peach. ugh

 

[h!tboxexplo!ter]

plank could you explain why you think jiggs has the advantage? im curious/ will know what to look out for

 

[KirbyKaze]

I will wager a whole dollar it will revolve around Puff being impervious to grab, having awesome combos on Sheik, having better aerial mobility than Sheik, having the same sort of "you might actually die in one hit" thing that ICs do only she can do it out of more moves and as an edgeguard, etc.

 

[Nihonjin]

plank could you explain why you think jiggs has the advantage? im curious/ will know what to look out for

Sheik cannot grab Jiggs.
Sheik cannot gimp Jiggs.
Sheiks aerial game << Jiggs. (So you can't really out space Jiggs)
Sheik can barely combo Jiggs.

Jiggs can gimp Sheik.
Jiggs can combo Sheik.
Jiggs has a 1 hit wonder.