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Q&A Sheik Strategy & QnA
- Thread starter KirbyKaze
- Start date
h!tboxexplo!ter
Smash Ace
they can chain grab you too tho so be aware (i know right sheik getting chain grabbed >.>)
unknown522
Some guy
Yes. I meant "they're moving away from you", but "back" was shorter.
Ganon shouldn't grab Sheik as much as vice versa
LooksLikePit
Smash Ace
Alright then. How good is platform camping against Ganon? I understand that being below him is a bad thing so is it a viable strategy to excessively camp then grab when you can?
SonuvaBeach
Smash Lord
Not really. Single needles do 2-3%, while all of Ganon's moves are >15% and lead to more moves and probably a stock. Being above him is bad as well as being below him. You want to be in front of him, or behind I suppose.
It is good used sparingly
It is good used sparingly
Is that a bad thing..? :embarrass
SonuvaBeach
Smash Lord
I'm going just so I can steal all your trixies amsah!
and to be reminded as to why I shouldn't main sheik...
and to be reminded as to why I shouldn't main sheik...
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Being below him is fine if you are smart and react well to his obvious stuff like Dair and drop Fair and awkward platform things. You can get free grabs and things if you're good about those.
Platform camping is a weird question because there's more than one kind of platform camp. However, I'll assume you're going with being on top of a platform. Against Ganon, that kind of platform camping is something I used to do a lot and it's not awful, but you have to understand that being on a platform means they have a really obvious good position on you (underneath you). And they will try to get that good position. Provided they do, you're in trouble because Ganon Uair is stupid. If you can avoid that, though, I don't see why it wouldn't work...
Yeah, being above Ganon is the worst possible thing you can do vs him. After losing to Linguini at Rom2 in pools I've realized this.
What's a good ban/counterpick vs Ganon? I chose Corneria vs Linguini cuz he said he didn't like weird stages (after he played some guy I overheard/we were talking) so I kinda hoped he'd go Fox/Falco/Sheik because I felt I had a better chance in that.
What's a good ban/counterpick vs Ganon? I chose Corneria vs Linguini cuz he said he didn't like weird stages (after he played some guy I overheard/we were talking) so I kinda hoped he'd go Fox/Falco/Sheik because I felt I had a better chance in that.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Actually the worst possible thing you can do is be stupid in close range, forget all the advantages you have in close range, and get grabbed for a whole stock. Or Dair --> grabbed for a whole stock.
But being above is pretty close.
Not sure about counterpicks. I think Dreamland and FD would be good because he's slow and you're not.
ArcNatural
Banned ( ∫x, δx Points)
I'm pretty sure FD is gauranteed banned by any Ganon since they lose so much mobility there. DL allows perfect Wavelands. Your still faster than him though so I guess that's a plus.
I would think rainbow cruise is better as long as you stay in front of the stage path you basically force him to approach you.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Pokemon Stadium then. Either way, I'd recommend a big level for nice chain grabbing where Sheik's superior movement is made relevant. That's not to say small stages can't work, but I think objectively (and not taking personal comfort into consideration) a big stage for camping and preventing him from applying too much pressure is more useful than a small stage.
I've never counterpicked Rainbow Cruise seriously as Sheik, so I wouldn't know. It looks fine on paper, though.
h!tboxexplo!ter
Smash Ace
haha i got it
happy new year sheik boards
... yay alcohol
happy new year sheik boards
... yay alcohol
h!tboxexplo!ter
Smash Ace
awww d*mn is generally a positive comment, kind of like the ****
Happy new years Shieks boards.
This took me lik e 15 mins to post so yea *****es
This took me lik e 15 mins to post so yea *****es
Lordydennek
Smash Ace
2010. and im on boards. oh God.
nicaboy
Smash Champion
lol funny thing i recently played him in tournament
and in a mm and i only won on my counter pick stages vs him. In tournament i took him to brainstar but i think it was just a comfort thing. I don't know how its a good counter pick vs ganon. Its like ys but with breakable platforms and lava which can back fire on sheik. Regardless i won there. However in the mm i took him to kongo jungle 64 which to me was smart on my part. That stage takes away some of his mobility with high and awkward platforms. So wavelands into fair isn't as effective here. Also sheik can recover multiple ways here. Makes her ha
Last summer I got dair to grabbed for an entire stock. Now that's embarassing lol.
On another note, I miss being able to chaingrab near perfectly (was able to cg Sheik at 0 like half to 3/4 of the time).
I guess I'll practice it again since it's kinda useful.
Happy New Years guis. :D I wish I had gotten drunk with some friends but chillin' at my house is alright I guess.
On another note, I miss being able to chaingrab near perfectly (was able to cg Sheik at 0 like half to 3/4 of the time).
I guess I'll practice it again since it's kinda useful.Happy New Years guis. :D I wish I had gotten drunk with some friends but chillin' at my house is alright I guess.
Wavedash to the edge WHILE you're in hitstun.
nicaboy
Smash Champion
Ok wtf my post keeps getting cut off so i guess i have to continue here. As i was saying its makes her recovery harder to punish. His cg is also disrupted here but so is your due to the rising floor so you both hit the floor earlier. Difference is you can continue combos much better with tilts and dash attack and at times up air. Since the stage is big it also takes longer for you to die.It worked for me lol. Edit about grabing the ledge after getting shined i think you just di toward the ledge. Im not certain though.
nicaboy
Smash Champion
Lol thanks . New years was great for me got home around 3 am. Would have been out longer but ugh some issues came up lol. Happy new years sheik boards. This is our year to ****!
. New years was great for me got home around 3 am. Would have been out longer but ugh some issues came up lol. Happy new years sheik boards. This is our year to ****!
Yomi-no-Kuni
Smash Lord
happy new year.
I think DL is a horrible stage against ganondorf...
he can use the platforms perfectly, and survive long... (okay, he shouldn't due to needles and slap, but still)
i'd counterpick FD,kongo Jungle or Brinstar (i like brinstar, and ganon cant do too much with the platforms if you keep away from them or if you destroy them. I also like the destructable ground, since you can position yourself so that ganon will hit you and the floor and have even more lag giving you grabs or w/e (WD out of shield)
plus ganon needs alot of space to use downB recovery, and you can slap him if he gets into the lava. (or get him in a lava combo)... on the other hand you propably die alot earlier then him on the stage and he does have 2 platforms he can use...) (i play pal, so no chaingrabbing for me)
I think DL is a horrible stage against ganondorf...
he can use the platforms perfectly, and survive long... (okay, he shouldn't due to needles and slap, but still)
i'd counterpick FD,kongo Jungle or Brinstar (i like brinstar, and ganon cant do too much with the platforms if you keep away from them or if you destroy them. I also like the destructable ground, since you can position yourself so that ganon will hit you and the floor and have even more lag giving you grabs or w/e (WD out of shield)
plus ganon needs alot of space to use downB recovery, and you can slap him if he gets into the lava. (or get him in a lava combo)... on the other hand you propably die alot earlier then him on the stage and he does have 2 platforms he can use...) (i play pal, so no chaingrabbing for me)
Its an amazing thing
And for the against Ganon stage selections...
I don't think it matters too much, though that could be me not playing many ganondorfs =/.
I guess I like stadium and battlefield vs ganon.
Oh..fail..:embarrass
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
I almost always get Kage in bracket or pools at tournaments that he comes to in Canada.
After that, I don't have much experience except for local Ganon players that I'm much better than and therefore don't really teach me anything, and sometimes PKM busts him out in friendlies when he's in town. He's doing that less and less, though, because he wants to play Falco, Marth, Jigglypuff, Sheik, and other gay characters.
LooksLikePit
Smash Ace
Your avatar is extremely sexy.
kpat
Smash Rookie
I need help learning to play faster, and also I need to work on my tech chasing ability.
For tech chasing which move do you usually use?
tech chase > grab
tech chase > dair
tech chase > usmash
tech chase > dsmash
For tech chasing which move do you usually use?
tech chase > grab
tech chase > dair
tech chase > usmash
tech chase > dsmash
For tech chasing its usually in your best advantage to grab. Since its a very reliable source of damage.
I usually have a mini-guideline though so whatever.
You grab at 0-35%
Tech chase with grab its generally the best idea. They're too low for any dash attack > fair combos. Try not to use dsmash at such low percentages because you ruin your opportunity to rack up a lot of potential damage.
Use d-smash if your tech chase is a little late or if they end up at the edge otherwise I'd say grab is the better option.
You grab at 40%-50%
This is IMO the crucial percentage because spacies (After you hit the dthrow) can be hit with dash attack fair. Try to force your opponent off the edge with your dash attack fair or dash attack combo whatever.
Anything outside of that usually a dsmash or dash attack is fine. Most of the time you don't need to go too much further than that though that doesn't mean you can't re-grab.
And.. there you go
.
Up-smash is also generally good at any percentages (Its difficult to CC upsmash while you're being tech chased. You also fall down when you attempt it typically) but its hard to consistently land it so use it sparingly.
I usually have a mini-guideline though so whatever.
You grab at 0-35%
Tech chase with grab its generally the best idea. They're too low for any dash attack > fair combos. Try not to use dsmash at such low percentages because you ruin your opportunity to rack up a lot of potential damage.
Use d-smash if your tech chase is a little late or if they end up at the edge otherwise I'd say grab is the better option.
You grab at 40%-50%
This is IMO the crucial percentage because spacies (After you hit the dthrow) can be hit with dash attack fair. Try to force your opponent off the edge with your dash attack fair or dash attack combo whatever.
Anything outside of that usually a dsmash or dash attack is fine. Most of the time you don't need to go too much further than that though that doesn't mean you can't re-grab.
And.. there you go
.Up-smash is also generally good at any percentages (Its difficult to CC upsmash while you're being tech chased. You also fall down when you attempt it typically) but its hard to consistently land it so use it sparingly.
LooksLikePit
Smash Ace
Which characters/weight class are you talking about?
Lordydennek
Smash Ace
Where should i CP against a fox?
SonuvaBeach
Smash Lord
Wherever your most comfortable.
Which should be battlefield because you love the platform height and Fox and Falco's harder times sweetspotting.
Which should be battlefield because you love the platform height and Fox and Falco's harder times sweetspotting.
Lordydennek
Smash Ace
lol ok. thanks.
DJRome
Smash Hero
hay, i just found out about doing the up b stall on ys to do the land upb with two hits on the platform. is there any practical use to this? I mean i know it hits twice, but is it possible that it could lead to something?
Tell them to **** off and pick battlefield anyway.
In actuality it depends on what you like, and how your opponent plays.
I did something similar to Scar on KJ64 just as a trick though. I don't think I can think of many other uses. =/
Oh you mean stall.... nvm I dunno
nicaboy
Smash Champion
Well since i play gay i say brinstar. I ****ing love that stage. Lava combo fox yo its gay. Im into smaller stages fighting fox so fod and bf are good. Shifting platforms can mess up foxes short hop game pretty nicely plus you can gimp well here. I hate ys because it hinders sheiks gimp potential but in exchange low celling verticaly and horizontaly. Guess its comes to preference and the play style of the fox. Still i think sheik does better on small stages.
Fortress | Sveet
▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀
you won't have invincibility through the whole thing most likely. IMO that makes it pretty bad.
DJRome
Smash Hero
well i was thinking of using it to get off the ledge. like if i do it and then have the option of going back to the ledge or finishing the up b onto the stage to punish after the up b hits or if i go to the ledge i can do another punish or continue to normal stall
That was confusing bit of stuff there 
Oh DJrome, before I forget. My friend who had the last spot or had a spot had to bail for money reasons?
I was gonna ask Vanz if he wanted to room with us. But if you have someone in mind instead you should invite them seeing how its your room and all.
But if you have no one in mind and you're cool with it I'm asking Vanz if he'd like the spot.
Oh DJrome, before I forget. My friend who had the last spot or had a spot had to bail for money reasons?
I was gonna ask Vanz if he wanted to room with us. But if you have someone in mind instead you should invite them seeing how its your room and all.
But if you have no one in mind and you're cool with it I'm asking Vanz if he'd like the spot.
Dorsey
Banned via Warnings
This is my first post on the sheik boards but I saw this and thought I'd give my take on it since it's the match-up I play the most. In general, I try to pressure ganon as much as possible(similar to pressuring falcon, except I stay more grounded v. CF), with proper spacing, guessing techs, and mind-games.. by reaction for the most part(sheik's aerials, the bair in particular, come out fast enough that you can outspace ganon's aerials by reaction in many situations). I do a lot of waveland to bair/fair on platforms. Imo, or at least in my play style, gimping is the most important part of the match-up for sheik. I try to be as tricky as possible with my gimps and always switch them up. Whenever I'm able to hit my opponent with darts off the stage, I usually always go for it. For me, sheik's cg on ganon is a little less of a tool than it is for ganon on sheik, although I try for it occasionally. It's still a little tough for me to do it by reaction, but if ganon has the best possible DI out of sheik's cg(which is left / right, then downward to tech faster?..just a guess) you would want to use sheik's boost grab, and if he's switching up his DI you should jcgrab. Switching up your techs properly is pretty key against ganon because a tech-chase, or one single opening that will in turn lead to multiple big hits from him, is just what he's looking for.. additionally avoiding getting grabbed is almost as crucial as this, especially if he's proficient with the cg.
I'm not too good at giving specific advice and I'm no expert.. but I do play the match-up a lot. Here's a recent friendly I recorded while pretty intoxicated.. I don't really record much at all lol. I was pretty careless but I think I played the match-up at least semi-decently: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOdgQf2539o Ace does a lot of the approaches/options that unknown covered.
Sorry about the quality, any comments, criticism, or whatever are welcome.
edit:
here's a few more specific things I said awhile back about ganon's take on the match-up imo(from the ganon boards..)
Again.. general for the most part but i'm not good at explaining stuff that's so circumstantial.
ps. good stuff on tech-chasing teczero