Q&A Sheik Strategy & QnA

[Fortress | Sveet]

Nah i revise my stance. Sheik v Marth is 60-40 or 65-35. Its really really rough. Sheik has a much better effective range than marth, and marth can't stay close-but-not-in-range zone because that zone simply doesnt exist.

 

[soap]

Why does Sheik outmaneuver Marth? Her wavedash is only a frame faster, and her running speed is the same. Plus it seems like her dash dance game isn't as good...

i feel like if u are good with needles u really mess up his ground game/dash dance camp

then sheik can easily outmaneuver his aerials

 

[KirbyKaze]

Why does Sheik outmaneuver Marth? Her wavedash is only a frame faster, and her running speed is the same. Plus it seems like her dash dance game isn't as good...

Her dashes are shorter and have faster acceleration. Short movements are good in close combat. Sheik's vertical movement is also much better. Needles screw with his basic long movements if he's trying to cover ground or screw around at a distance.

Provided you DI his U-throw after about 35 he can only combo U-throw Fair --> another move. A 3 hit combo that doesn't lead to an edgeguard is not scary. If you fail DI then you're in trouble but otherwise there's no reason to be terrified when Marth grabs you.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Oh. Bleh, needles.

 

[AnDaLe]

ssspot dodge dsmash

 

[Drephen]

ssspot dodge dsmash

this guy knows whats up

 

[KirbyKaze]

What if I skipped the sidestep and did just D-smash?

Would I win your approval?

 

[Teczer0]

This one time against a falcon.... in this one stock, I only used grab, dthrow and dsmash.

And it worked.

Drephen **** works <3

 

[DtJ Jungle]

I think the lesson here is

Drephen tooo good.

 

[soap]

who isnt a drephen fanboy? besides m2....k

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Oh hey, Teczero, is Soul Eater any good? If so, where do you watch it?

Drephen's characters confound me. I swear, his playstyle does not work for me.

 

[Teczer0]

Drephen's playstyle makes me laugh

Then confused

Then I just give up and just copy it

 

[earla]

sheik melee pal

1. can you get out of fox wave shine? if not how do you avoid being gimped after u're shined off the edge?

2. how do you deal with doctor marios pills?

3. what is best option when peach does her floating fair? i think then l-cancels then jab- grab.
i kept failing to shield grab her out of her float approaches.

4. how do you beat marths fair, d-tilt spaced perfectly? what options does sheik have apart from needles? i find myself just getting pressured to the edge.

5. against marth in particular i still have trouble getting back on from the edge. what are some edge mindgames to mix up my recovery more. i varied my get up and still got punished. once im on the edge = a stock

6. if you approach with fair spaced and l-canceled can you get shield grabbed out of it?

7. how do you use f-smash effectively?

thx

 

[KirbyKaze]

1. No, you can't escape. Hold down and towards the stage to grab the edge when you're being shined to or near the edge.

2. Run under them. Jump onto a top center platform if available and regroup. Nair through them if he's FJing too close or something. Needles from platform possibly. Lots of things.

3. Hit her before the Fair comes out (it's slow). If she jabs after the Fair then just shield grab after the jab and hold down and mash for CC grab. If she double jabs you'll CC grab the second one, if she does anything else after the first jab you'll just shield grab her.

4. Time DD --> boost grab or DD --> dash attack as soon as he lands. Alternatively hit him before his Fair arcs down to hit you. CC F-tilt is also pretty good about screwing with his spacing. If he's constantly spacing absolutely perfectly you're in trouble but I doubt that's the case.

5. Shino stall --> invincible ledgedash. Standard get-up below 100 sometimes is also acceptable.

6. No.

7. You can't. Other moves are always better than her F-smash.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

I dunno if you guys know this, but Peach's first jab actually has set knockback, so you can always crouch cancel it into a grab.

 

[Nihonjin]

sheik melee pal

1. can you get out of fox wave shine? if not how do you avoid being gimped after u're shined off the edge?

By grabbing the edge..

2. how do you deal with doctor marios pills?

Ftlit, utilt, dtilt, jab, nair, fair, bair, shielding, running under it, needles, chain, pretty much anything you can think of...

3. what is best option when peach does her floating fair? i think then l-cancels then jab- grab.
i kept failing to shield grab her out of her float approaches.

Attack her before the fair comes out, or simply avoid the fair completely.

4. how do you beat marths fair, d-tilt spaced perfectly? what options does sheik have apart from needles? i find myself just getting pressured to the edge.

You can crouch under his fair and bair over his dtilt...but honestly, just watch vids..
There are more than enough good Sheik - Marth vids out there to answer these type of questions.

5. against marth in particular i still have trouble getting back on from the edge. what are some edge mindgames to mix up my recovery more. i varied my get up and still got punished. once im on the edge = a stock

This.

6. if you approach with fair spaced and l-canceled can you get shield grabbed out of it?

Don't think so.

7. how do you use f-smash effectively?

Don't even think about it. She always has a move that's at least 30x more effective than Fsmashing.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

You can smash DI out of waveshines if you're pro =P

 

[pockyD]

i think fox can just chase you in time with dashes though

 

[elvenarrow3000]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=if67i_Tj2Hc&

Goes pretty far =P The main thing is that you can catch them off guard with it.

 

[Tero.]

I like having Amsah around on the Sheik boards

 

[KirbyKaze]

I dunno if you guys know this, but Peach's first jab actually has set knockback, so you can always crouch cancel it into a grab.

Waiting for her initial action is usually better because if she D-smashes or does something fancy when you try to shield grab, you get hurt.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Elven, don't forget your fundamentals. Never CC Peachy. So sometime Peach will FC fair into jab grab. That doesn't really justify CCing the jabs because sooner or later you're going to eat heavy dsmash damage for holding down.

 

[soap]

You can crouch under his fair and bair over his dtilt...

I love the duck bair spacing, but if they immediately fsmash or dash away (both popular options) this wont work.

But bair does allow you to stay out of range of the utilt which is a huge plus. and u have the option to jump away or waveland if u see them dash away. or reverse needle sometimes in lieu of bair

I like having Amsah around on the Sheik boards

I agree, good poster

 

[earla]

what is invincible ledgedash?

and UpB on stage (double vanish for if they try and punish) ? << what is double vanish?

thanks

 

[soap]

invincible ledgedash is letting go of the ledge as soon as you are able to, jumping immediately and wavedashing asap to preserve invincibility frames.

i find it easiest to do this without accidental sds by tilting down instead of tapping down so that i dont fastfall and get above the ledge quicker more consistently.

upb on stage to double explosion is landing on stage with first half of upb. and u explode twice. interesting note: if u go straight up from this explosion u will land with no lag and can even combo off the explosion sometimes. downside is if u miss and they are quick they can hit u out the air and u have no doublejump

here is a pretty hilarious example of double explosion

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69agJOIh8Sw#t=11m05s

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Elven, don't forget your fundamentals. Never CC Peachy. So sometime Peach will FC fair into jab grab. That doesn't really justify CCing the jabs because sooner or later you're going to eat heavy dsmash damage for holding down.

Oh right <_< My bad.

It's a fun fact, nonetheless! I wish my mains had a set knockback jab. Infinite jab resets!

what is invincible ledgedash?

and UpB on stage (double vanish for if they try and punish) ? << what is double vanish?

thanks

Invincible ledge dash is ledge hop waveland (while invincible)

Double Vanish is uh... where the little hop before the Vanish pops you up onto the stage? Maybe. And then it transitions from the aerial animation into the grounded animation, giving you two hitboxes.

EDIT:

Dammit, ninja'd.

 

[soap]

EDIT:

Dammit, ninja'd.

its a sheik thing son

 

[Nihonjin]

I love the duck bair spacing, but if they immediately fsmash or dash away (both popular options) this wont work.

True, but I guess that's where insight and smarts come in. I'm just providing different options. :embarrass

 

[-RedShadow]

Quick question (sorry if this has been discussed before):

Vs. spacies, which of the two would be the more logical stage ban: FD or Stadium?

I assume FD 'cause of laser camping, but I just wanted to get some insight.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

Uhhm I personally think it's preference.

I ban FD on the sole fact i just ****in hate that stage.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

I'd ban Yoshi's Story.

But uh. Y'know.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Probably Stadium. Its just too good for spacies. You can do some gay shit on FD, and neither spacie is exceptionally good there.

 

[Tope]

i typically ban stadium....


I want to see more sheiks shorthopping underneath stadium platforms and not landing on the platform. It's such a mind****

 

[LooksLikePit]

it doesn't really matter what stage you choose because they're just going to get downsmashed no matter what

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Tope you have the same avatar as drephen and it ****s with my head

 

[-RedShadow]

it doesn't really matter what stage you choose because you're just going to get laser camped no matter what

Fixed.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

laser camping really isn't that big of a problem >_>

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

mogwai says in his guide that FD is a good stage for falco in the match-up

 

[Teczer0]

mogwai says in his guide that FD is a good stage for falco in the match-up

He probably said that because its sorta kinda... nah it basically is good for falco

 

[nicaboy]

Holy crap appoching ganon with sheild ****ing *****. Its so good