saviorslegacy
My avater is not a Sheik avatar.
Sonic mains, your input is greatly desired:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=293219
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=293219
-
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Social SGD: The hedgehogs are back in town.
- Thread starter Espy Rose
- Start date
Trent
Smash Champion
What happened here?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXMXo0Q2EiE&feature=related
Between 1:48 and 1:52.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXMXo0Q2EiE&feature=related
Between 1:48 and 1:52.
Joemama8
Smash Journeyman
nonono, your up-B came out but then ledge cancelled. This happened to Espy during one of his matches at MLG so yea, dunno what causes it.....
Kinzer
Mammy
Espy, whenever you get a chance, you need to tell me something.
This goes for anybody else who can give me an answer, I only asked Espy directly since it'll be obvious what/why I'm directing it mainly at him.
This goes for anybody else who can give me an answer, I only asked Espy directly since it'll be obvious what/why I'm directing it mainly at him.
I think it goes without dispute that you are the outlier-
No, excuse me.
THE outlier for Sonic in Brawl.
Though I have more to talk about than simply meatriding, I want to briefly congratulate you and what not.
I'm going to assume you keep up with a lot of stuff behind the BBR and everything directed at it. I'm sure you have at one time or another seen it argued, or you having been brought up to support or testify against the constant outlier arguments.
Which IMO are pretty stupid, but I suppose it's becoming a trend now. It's certainly bought my attention for this moment, and I have a couple things I need to say/ask.
What do you have to say about this whole thing?
How do you feel about people being mentioned to represent a good chunk of a characters metagame?
Do you feel that this outlier stuff either strengthens or weakens a characters overall spot in a tier list? Specifically Sonic's case? Why?
Alright, I think that's it concerning that.
Now these questions will be a bit generalized, and with more sentimentals, but hopefully I can keep it formal.
Didn't you at one point believe that Sonic was probably a low-mid tier character or is my memory off and you always have been advocating for Sonic's (inevitable?) rise?
If the former, why have you gone so far out of the way to make everybody else believe otherwise? Really no reason non-whatsoever other than a diehard fanboyism kind of thing?
One obvious way to kill the outlier argument is for every one of us to get better; consistency is the name of the game. Of course that isn't to say you are perfect and only have downhill to go, but you've set quite a bar. Now the rest of us will have to perform just as equally, if not even better in your same place, and if applicable; succeed where you have even fell short, in order to prove your last performance at MLG was not a one-hit wonder.
Where am I going with that you may ask?
Just how the @#$% are we suppose to do that?!
I'm sitting here, and I'm baffled as to why you of all people are performing so well, where a lot of us could only dream of being. I mean no disrespect towards you; quite the opposite in fact, but I imagine you must at least be able to sympathize with those who deal with the frustration of not being able to accomplish certain things. Are some people doomed to failure or is there some sort of secret I'm missing where even the most hopeless of cases can achieve greatness?
... This next one will have me swallowing heavy just because I feel this could annoy you/other people, but I rather get it out and deal with it later.
What does it say when our outlier feels that there's an unwinnable MU? I'm unsure of how you view Sonic's MU against Lucario, but with the way things seem to be going, you seem to have lost hope. Again, please understand I'm not trying to attack you, but it does a lot; to the point where some people will question "if the best guy can't handle a certain case, does this mean that a character inevitably sucks and shines only in certain aspects, but is ultimately unable to compete?"
Would you please deconfirm my fear and at least say something like "I'm only human broski. I suck at this matchup, but somebody else can actually can where I can't," or am I to accept the hard reality that a Lucario player at an equal level (or slighly/drastically less being this case of MUs and all) will always triumph over me and that to be a true competitive player I have to abandon my scrubbiness?
... I'm hoping you will anyway. Only time can really answer all these questions, but time is something not all of us have; and I'm not saying anybody gonna be dying anytime soon, however I'm hoping that it's just simply a case of "we all still need to get better" (which includes you; our top player(?)) and not so much "we've reached the point of no return."
... I'll continue to get whatever data y'all ask for me. I know it may have been a stupid question since I know some data is still missing, but it still helps... I mean it helps to get the data, and it helps to know that we all just suck still (and yet, n00bs still make this character look awesome(!)).
I wonder if I forgot anything. If I did, I guess I covered it in a big chunk here and maybe I'll remember it later/it'll be brought up by somebody else.
No, excuse me.
THE outlier for Sonic in Brawl.
Though I have more to talk about than simply meatriding, I want to briefly congratulate you and what not.
I'm going to assume you keep up with a lot of stuff behind the BBR and everything directed at it. I'm sure you have at one time or another seen it argued, or you having been brought up to support or testify against the constant outlier arguments.
Which IMO are pretty stupid, but I suppose it's becoming a trend now. It's certainly bought my attention for this moment, and I have a couple things I need to say/ask.
What do you have to say about this whole thing?
How do you feel about people being mentioned to represent a good chunk of a characters metagame?
Do you feel that this outlier stuff either strengthens or weakens a characters overall spot in a tier list? Specifically Sonic's case? Why?
Alright, I think that's it concerning that.
Now these questions will be a bit generalized, and with more sentimentals, but hopefully I can keep it formal.
Didn't you at one point believe that Sonic was probably a low-mid tier character or is my memory off and you always have been advocating for Sonic's (inevitable?) rise?
If the former, why have you gone so far out of the way to make everybody else believe otherwise? Really no reason non-whatsoever other than a diehard fanboyism kind of thing?
One obvious way to kill the outlier argument is for every one of us to get better; consistency is the name of the game. Of course that isn't to say you are perfect and only have downhill to go, but you've set quite a bar. Now the rest of us will have to perform just as equally, if not even better in your same place, and if applicable; succeed where you have even fell short, in order to prove your last performance at MLG was not a one-hit wonder.
Where am I going with that you may ask?
Just how the @#$% are we suppose to do that?!
I'm sitting here, and I'm baffled as to why you of all people are performing so well, where a lot of us could only dream of being. I mean no disrespect towards you; quite the opposite in fact, but I imagine you must at least be able to sympathize with those who deal with the frustration of not being able to accomplish certain things. Are some people doomed to failure or is there some sort of secret I'm missing where even the most hopeless of cases can achieve greatness?
... This next one will have me swallowing heavy just because I feel this could annoy you/other people, but I rather get it out and deal with it later.
What does it say when our outlier feels that there's an unwinnable MU? I'm unsure of how you view Sonic's MU against Lucario, but with the way things seem to be going, you seem to have lost hope. Again, please understand I'm not trying to attack you, but it does a lot; to the point where some people will question "if the best guy can't handle a certain case, does this mean that a character inevitably sucks and shines only in certain aspects, but is ultimately unable to compete?"
Would you please deconfirm my fear and at least say something like "I'm only human broski. I suck at this matchup, but somebody else can actually can where I can't," or am I to accept the hard reality that a Lucario player at an equal level (or slighly/drastically less being this case of MUs and all) will always triumph over me and that to be a true competitive player I have to abandon my scrubbiness?
... I'm hoping you will anyway. Only time can really answer all these questions, but time is something not all of us have; and I'm not saying anybody gonna be dying anytime soon, however I'm hoping that it's just simply a case of "we all still need to get better" (which includes you; our top player(?)) and not so much "we've reached the point of no return."
... I'll continue to get whatever data y'all ask for me. I know it may have been a stupid question since I know some data is still missing, but it still helps... I mean it helps to get the data, and it helps to know that we all just suck still (and yet, n00bs still make this character look awesome(!)).
I wonder if I forgot anything. If I did, I guess I covered it in a big chunk here and maybe I'll remember it later/it'll be brought up by somebody else.
The BlackChrimson
Smash Apprentice
Hn..For that match against Ike, I think it could've used a little less Spin and a bit more passive-aggressive rush down with more Dtilt/Utilt and USmash. Stage awareness variant is slightly lacking from the looks of it, but it's simply only a matter of timing. The DI seems fine, but the manner of being defensive in that fight seemed to have played more in the Ike's advantage because the Trent was defensive at a range. It has its advantages to be sure, i.e frame counting..
Eh, I dunno.
Eh, I dunno.
Chis
Finally a legend
They want to charge Julian Assange with espionage? The US government are really out to get him aren’t they? All because he exposed politicians by pulling their pants down. Whether they like it or not he's a hero to the United states, but not the one it needs right now...and so the US government will hunt him, because he can take it. Because he's not a hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector...a dark knight.
NH Cody
Smash Champion
I found the religious convo interesting.
Trent's back
Trent's back
Browny
Smash Hater
Its pretty pathetic
I lol here @ some aus politicians, youve never heard of them coz the do stuff all and just sit in parliament < 30 days a year. This assange saga goes on for ages, suddenly they get caught out for divulging confidential information and they come out saying wikileaks is illegal and lies etc.
Funny how the only people who think its bad are the ones who have been exposed and the reason no one is jumping to wikileaks defense is coz they know they have something to hide and cant trust anyone
Yea I didn't read any of this but I want to add something for Espy.Espy, whenever you get a chance, you need to tell me something.
This goes for anybody else who can give me an answer, I only asked Espy directly since it'll be obvious what/why I'm directing it mainly at him.
I think it goes without dispute that you are the outlier-
No, excuse me.
THE outlier for Sonic in Brawl.
Though I have more to talk about than simply meatriding, I want to briefly congratulate you and what not.
I'm going to assume you keep up with a lot of stuff behind the BBR and everything directed at it. I'm sure you have at one time or another seen it argued, or you having been brought up to support or testify against the constant outlier arguments.
Which IMO are pretty stupid, but I suppose it's becoming a trend now. It's certainly bought my attention for this moment, and I have a couple things I need to say/ask.
What do you have to say about this whole thing?
How do you feel about people being mentioned to represent a good chunk of a characters metagame?
Do you feel that this outlier stuff either strengthens or weakens a characters overall spot in a tier list? Specifically Sonic's case? Why?
Alright, I think that's it concerning that.
Now these questions will be a bit generalized, and with more sentimentals, but hopefully I can keep it formal.
Didn't you at one point believe that Sonic was probably a low-mid tier character or is my memory off and you always have been advocating for Sonic's (inevitable?) rise?
If the former, why have you gone so far out of the way to make everybody else believe otherwise? Really no reason non-whatsoever other than a diehard fanboyism kind of thing?
One obvious way to kill the outlier argument is for every one of us to get better; consistency is the name of the game. Of course that isn't to say you are perfect and only have downhill to go, but you've set quite a bar. Now the rest of us will have to perform just as equally, if not even better in your same place, and if applicable; succeed where you have even fell short, in order to prove your last performance at MLG was not a one-hit wonder.
Where am I going with that you may ask?
Just how the @#$% are we suppose to do that?!
I'm sitting here, and I'm baffled as to why you of all people are performing so well, where a lot of us could only dream of being. I mean no disrespect towards you; quite the opposite in fact, but I imagine you must at least be able to sympathize with those who deal with the frustration of not being able to accomplish certain things. Are some people doomed to failure or is there some sort of secret I'm missing where even the most hopeless of cases can achieve greatness?
... This next one will have me swallowing heavy just because I feel this could annoy you/other people, but I rather get it out and deal with it later.
What does it say when our outlier feels that there's an unwinnable MU? I'm unsure of how you view Sonic's MU against Lucario, but with the way things seem to be going, you seem to have lost hope. Again, please understand I'm not trying to attack you, but it does a lot; to the point where some people will question "if the best guy can't handle a certain case, does this mean that a character inevitably sucks and shines only in certain aspects, but is ultimately unable to compete?"
Would you please deconfirm my fear and at least say something like "I'm only human broski. I suck at this matchup, but somebody else can actually can where I can't," or am I to accept the hard reality that a Lucario player at an equal level (or slighly/drastically less being this case of MUs and all) will always triumph over me and that to be a true competitive player I have to abandon my scrubbiness?
... I'm hoping you will anyway. Only time can really answer all these questions, but time is something not all of us have; and I'm not saying anybody gonna be dying anytime soon, however I'm hoping that it's just simply a case of "we all still need to get better" (which includes you; our top player(?)) and not so much "we've reached the point of no return."
... I'll continue to get whatever data y'all ask for me. I know it may have been a stupid question since I know some data is still missing, but it still helps... I mean it helps to get the data, and it helps to know that we all just suck still (and yet, n00bs still make this character look awesome(!)).
I wonder if I forgot anything. If I did, I guess I covered it in a big chunk here and maybe I'll remember it later/it'll be brought up by somebody else.
Why pick up another character to deal with Trela, but not for other tough players you never beat? You probably wouldn't be able to beat M2K, Ally, Gnes (amazing top mains of top tiers) etc. What makes losing to a Lucario that much worse?
~TBS~
Smash Champion
He beat Gnes before Tesh...
Kinzer, it might be a personal MU for espy that he just cant do BUT...name a sonic that took out a top lucario. Its something more here.
But i agree with espy being the outlier of Sonic. Good job.
Kinzer, it might be a personal MU for espy that he just cant do BUT...name a sonic that took out a top lucario. Its something more here.
But i agree with espy being the outlier of Sonic. Good job.
Oh did he? I just tossed out some names of people he might have lost to more than once. My point being that he isn't losing to only Lucario.
X is the outlier of Sonic guys. He is WAAAAAAAAY in Utah. I didn't even know they had players up there. So yea total outlier.
X is the outlier of Sonic guys. He is WAAAAAAAAY in Utah. I didn't even know they had players up there. So yea total outlier.
Browny
Smash Hater
Are you seriously forgetting X taking out THE top lucario?
Browny
Smash Hater
Thats besides the point
Fact is an amazing player widely regarded as the best lucario lost. Theres no denying that fact. Youre gonna try and argue something impossible to define?
If you consider it like,
lees skill 10/10
lucario skill 8/10
vs the others
7/10
10/10
Im pretty sure lee is better. Good luck trying to separate the 2 factors when its quit clear ones potency with lucario is directly related to how well they are able to perform with him. If a lesser player knows lucario more but cant match the other players feats, thats a hell of a stretch to suggest they are better at him.
Fact is an amazing player widely regarded as the best lucario lost. Theres no denying that fact. Youre gonna try and argue something impossible to define?
If you consider it like,
lees skill 10/10
lucario skill 8/10
vs the others
7/10
10/10
Im pretty sure lee is better. Good luck trying to separate the 2 factors when its quit clear ones potency with lucario is directly related to how well they are able to perform with him. If a lesser player knows lucario more but cant match the other players feats, thats a hell of a stretch to suggest they are better at him.
Kinzer
Mammy
If I had a choice to read this, or have this forum minus the Social slow as usual, I'd take the latter. Spare me...
*Whistle.*
Thank you.
I suppose thought it's a variety of factors. Unless these kinds of things are happening underground and not being posted abroad for all to see, I haven't heard of any instance where a whole buncha Sonics and Lucarios gather in one place and either fight each other or have some sorta crew battle or whatever.
My individual case is different you see. I either go even, or have a positive tournament record against all of the local Lucarios. It goes without saying though that their credentials are non-existent, and mine are very, very limited. I'd like to think it's enough to give me some sort of idea though. I'll say more when I am able to travel OoS and play everybody elses' locals and stuff.
... And in that regard, others seem to hold Falco to very little light, whereas I cannot pull a win for the life of me against that jerk.
... and ugh Espy~. Why does it feel that you've put me aside as of late?
... Though eh, I guess I'd be a hypocrite if I said "It'd be nice if you could at least a brief mention letting me know you've at least skimmed over my post; but that'd go against what I just said:
Seriously, I hope I'm not like this with other people where I go out of my way to belittle the efforts of other people. If I do a video critique, I try not to say "come back when you don't suck as bad," I try to to pinpoint key habits so the player; and anybody else it concerns, can learn improve. -_-
I want to see how long I could go before somebody feels the need to correct my information if I started spewing lies about Sonic.
God why am I such an attention-*****? :/
... and if I somehow seem even more irritated than usual; I'm sorry. I got back from a smashfest, and I didn't learn as much as I wanted; ergo I'm not satisfied and exactly in the best mood. God I hate Wolf, and I need to practice even more. Wrong inputs out the wazoo. I wish I recorded but what's the damn point? I probably got outplayed as per usual too, so if I just killed a couple of habits, I'd probably be better off.
Kinzer
Mammy
;_;
Okay, thank you kindly.
I should probably just lock myself up after 5 P.M. PST on Friday nights. I didn't even consider how I've been awake since 7 A.M., and I only had 3-4 hours of sleep before, and I stayed up 15+ hours the night before too...
Well, I'll shower, then rest. I can only hope I remember what I need to improve on, or at least reflect on it. I want to help as much as I can, but being a mediocre Sonic player just won't give me what I need to assist...
... Zzzzzz~...
Exceladon City
Smash Hero
You also seem to forget that Espy plays Trela at damn near every tournament. They have played since forever ago and it's painfully apparent that Espy has a Trela problem moreso than a Lucario problem. Lucario is the secondary factor to this; as Lucario is in fact Sonic's most difficult match-up. If you switched Lee's Lucario with Trela's Lucario, X wouldn't have prevailed and I'm 99% sure of this. Out of the top Lucario players, Trela and June have more Sonic experience than Lee and Zucco. I'm certain that if Espy played Lee's Lucario, he'd beat Lee.
~TBS~
Smash Champion
Zucco for whatever reason is just like June and Trela when it comes to the Sonic mu. @_@
Exceladon City
Smash Hero
I mean he does have experience in the MU. He's just not immersed in Sonic like Junebug and Trela.
I'm surprised that you still doubt X, mister Oreo. I think Espy and X have proven thatbeing able to consistently beat one Sonic doesn't secure you a victory against them all.
Why did you quote part of your own post Kinzer?
Exceladon City
Smash Hero
MK =/= Lucario.
X can **** MK from now until the next blue moon. Lucario will ALWAYS be harder than MK. Especially, when they know the match-up. You saw what happened when X played Gnes.
Dark 3nergy
Smash Hero
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this right here
Gnes =/= Lucario.
Lets not forget he wrecked everyone at that tournament. 1 top Sonic losing to 1 Top "_______" doesn't make it the worst matchup. M2K loses to people that other MKs wouldn't lose to. So you can't measure everything about Sonic based solely on Espy.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
this whole espy is the epitome of all things sonic is ludicrous and needs to stop.
the kid already has way too big of a head as it is.
also, zucco has beaten me, speed and shado back when shado was better than speed, so he knows the matchup as well.
the kid already has way too big of a head as it is.
also, zucco has beaten me, speed and shado back when shado was better than speed, so he knows the matchup as well.
NH Cody
Smash Champion
I've played Junebug and I swear he's the best Lucario I've seen/played
(if that means anything)
(if that means anything)
JayBee
Smash Champion
Yo KID and Espy send me a freind request on PSN when you get the chance, so we can play BBCS (name is KojinSagara)
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
oreo, quest, tesh << D1aoS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2RBIIyDffk&feature=sub
just sayin.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2RBIIyDffk&feature=sub
just sayin.
Exceladon City
Smash Hero
I was stating that he lost to someone who knew the Sonic match-up pretty damn well.
Lucario and Falco are hands down the hardest match-ups for Sonic. PERIOD. Just because X beat Lee's Lucario doesn't mean he's the goldstandard for the Sonic/Lucario match-up. If he were to beat Zucco, Trela or June, then we'd have something to talk about.
I'm not basing anything Sonic solely on Espy. If that were the case then every match-up outside of Lucario would be close to even or in Sonic's favor because Espy has overcome so many tough match-ups.
I wish people would quit bringing M2K up in arguments like he's the God of Smashers. M2K operates a certain way and when things don't add up in his system, he loses. Simple as that. Don't believe me?
+
NH Cody
Smash Champion
I don't know, maybe his sonic is better than mine. I've improved a helluva lot since Arikie last critiqued my matches. You also have to take into account the fact that these people he's playing clearly do not know the sonic matchup (lol...if you want me to provide specific examples, I will).
...also I highly doubt that my TL is worse than that Sonic, just saying...
...also I highly doubt that my TL is worse than that Sonic, just saying...
Exceladon City
Smash Hero
Dude, I don't even care. I main
/ now. Fun time is over, I'm tryna win.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
people who think falco is sonics hardest matchup or is even in the same of difficulty as sonics hardest matchups make me giggle.
Exceladon City
Smash Hero
I guess it's just you and Wedge chillin in the "Sonic v Falco isn't hard." club. The irony of this.
NH Cody
Smash Champion
Then you play SK92, and...
Exceladon City
Smash Hero
So, I played BOKU. Yup, he mad garbage. I've never seen someone so desperate for rollback combos in my life. Oh and the hostlag Dairs are mad cute. I'm quite humored by this.
~TBS~
Smash Champion
lol 08 was a crazy time for MD/VA. I was the sonic that came out of nowhere. Shado was better than me when i didnt know about the tourneys and stuff. ;-;