Social SGD: The hedgehogs are back in town.

[Espy Rose]

All 6 of the different KK songs on Saturdays are Sonic ones made by that guy.
It's awesome.

Oh, and fun-fact: The dthrow spike on King Dedede on Battlefield works vs. Lucario too on many stages, as long as he doesn't DI up.

 

[Kinzer]

boxob made such a big stink about d throw teching insta-breaking our character. so theres always going to be random people that know how to do that. but specifically the teching thestage spike on the side, nobodys going to do that.

Incorrect.

That was what I was going on about earlier.

There is no difference in the window of timing or anything like that.

It's purely a matter of where you D-Throw them.

...Except obviously in the exception I mentioned before; on the edge of 2-way platforms facing inwards (and it's obvious there's nothing to tech if facing outwards (in most cases)).

Trust me, I wouldn't have used D-Throw that match unless I figured he didn't know about it. That had to be the first time I tried to D-throw him in the match, and I was hoping the stage-spike would catch him off-guard and give me a huge psychological boon over him.

Turns out it had the opposite effect.

But regardless, I always assume my opponent knows Sonic. Better to underestimate than to overestimate. I'll do it once, and if it works, continue to do it until it stops working. If it doesn't work the first time, chances are I won't try again.

 

[Maaaaaaaaaan]

Oh, I'm late, but I figured I couldn't tell Espy congrats without passing it on to X.

Major congratulations to the both of you. It was fun enough seeing my boy Espy chew up MLG, but to think that X was right next to him doing just the same? Tasty. Poetic even.


Ta Ta for now, Sonics.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

any character can force a ground release if they pummel fast enough, that just breaks down to people being bad with their characters.

also, what ddd is going to tech the down throw spike? sonics are the only ones that even know about that.

i would since i visit here often lol and i have teched the dthrow online

the grab release mechanics is an interesting part of brawl

Eventually?

Does anybody here know whether or not Sonic's pummel is fast enough to always guarantee a ground-grab release?

it depends on how fast sonic can knee his opponent. In terms of his pummel animation its pretty decent.

But if your looking into different grab breaks read this;

Spoiler

Taken from Vayseth's guide. Obviously its meant to be read for someone who is playing King Dedede so be aware of that.

Chapter 1.1: Grab Release General Information
Here I will go more in-depth into Grab Releases than anyone probably has in smash boards history. There
is a lot of information here that people do not know, so I would try and make sure you understand
everything here before moving on to the applications I have come up with later.
The first thing you may not be familiar with is that there are three types of grab releases in the game. Yes
three. They are what I have termed Ground Breaks, Air Breaks, and Pummel Breaks. It is possible to
force the first two guaranteed, but the third requires some luck.
Everyone is familiar with what I have termed Ground Breaks and Air Breaks. An Air Break is when you force
the opponent to break in an upwards motion. A Ground Break, therefore would be when the opponent
breaks downward. But then what's a Pummel Break? That's going to require a bit more explanation.
For most of the cast, an Air Break is defined as a grab release animation where the opponent is sent in an
arching motion going up and away from where the break happened. The distance and height vary based on
the character but there are also three major types of Air Break trajectories. The most common is one which
sends the opponent noticeably higher and far away, like Snake's for example. Most characters have these.
Some characters get sent on a low arch trajectory for some reason, which can be really helpful in regards
to edge guarding. Examples include Squirtle, Sheik, Fox, Falco, etc. The third I only remember seeing in
Wario and Metaknight. This is the strange parabola-shaped motion which sends them up and they
hopelessly fall down unable to do anything until they reach the ground. This is why there are so many
things you can do out of grab release on these characters, because of their strange Air Break properties,
where most other characters can input commands much faster. I will tell you how to force an Air Break in a
moment. It's required for explaining the Pummel Break.
So if an Air Break is something which forces the opponent up and away, then a Ground Break is defined
as a grab release animation where the opponent is sent a short distance away and stays grounded. There
really isn't much to note about Ground Breaks other than depending on the opponent's amount of traction
they will slide further away. Wario and R.O.B. are members of the group who break closest (conveniently
enough in regrabbing range) while Luigi rockets clear across the stage from a normal Ground Break. There
are in general five classes of characters who slide a set distance away but other than that, every character
has the same animation. Which character slides how far is listed in Chapter 1.7, Mindgames.

Chapter 1.2: Forcing a Specific Grab Release Animation
To actually force one animation over the other is somewhat tricky. A Ground Break is the easiest. Simply
standing grab the character over the level or platform with a normal grab and either pummel until they
break out or just hold them until they do. If the opponent has some sort of ground underneath them, they
will perform a Ground Break. Note I said "standing grab". If you perform a dashing grab, this may still
happen, but depending on the size of the two characters, it may not.
The size of the characters involved plays a huge role in whether or not you can force an Air Break Grab
Release. It is extremely character specific. Luckily for you, I have provided you with a list of characters who
King Dedede can perform Air Breaks on. Basically, to perform an Air Break you need one thing: to make
sure the character is not touching the floor. Anyone can be Air Breaked over the edge. To perform one, just
make sure they have nowhere to go and do nothing. When they break out, you will force an Air Break. If
they break out during a pummel when they are dangling, oh, well, you'll see what that yields soon enough.
For most characters, the only way to get the feet dangling animation while you are still on the level, is to
dash grab them. The dash grab will hold them higher off of the ground so it is possible to get that
animation.

example;

1. Ground Break: Standing grab Luigi and let him break out. He will slide pretty far away along the ground.
2. Air Break: Dash grab Luigi and let him break out. He will float up and away really far away.
3. Pummel Break: Dash grab Luigi and pummel him until he breaks out of a pummel hit. He will land right
next to you.
*Note, 2 and 3 work with King Dedede. Forcing the feet dangling animation is extremely character specific,
so you will have to test it out for yourself who you can force an Air Break on. Remember, it has to do with
the size of the characters involved.

Basically Sonics height relative to his opponent will play a factor in how he can grab break. iirc if your on a platform or a ledge and you grab your opponent i think you can pummel break them and they should break going downwards

 

[Coney]

i dunno, it's happened to me often, getting grabbed out of my upb, but it typically only gives me a small bit of damage and terrible positional disadvantage upon landing anyway

in any case, i can't see sonic forcing ddd into the position. i mean, it happens, but it's not going to be something to shoot for.

 

[infomon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKr8-aeiCKE

@ 1:10 lol check it out

it looks like he cancels a Homing-Attack with a ledgegrab

took me a loooong time to figure out what the heck is going on there hahaha

 

[ShadoFiend]

Hella surprised at Espy and X's performance at MLG. Speed, and Tommygreenshirt lets go fools. Cant be havin these nonEC sonics upin yah.

 

[WedginatorX]

Sonic obv placing in top 10 twice on ec too soon. Great Revival, let's do it up!
(That is if speed is still coming.)
Although if I have to play a sonic ditto @ my next tourney I WILL rage.

 

[stingers]

i main sonic now so I have to start posting here with you guys

sup bretheren

 

[Espy Rose]

Enjoy mediocrity.

 

[Kupo Rose]

Sonic Colours out tommorow for me, yay.

 

[Exceladon City]

i main sonic now so I have to start posting here with you guys

sup bretheren

Bad Stingers go back to !

Why must people insist on playing this mediocre character?!?!?

 

[stingers]

Enjoy mediocrity.

i used to main ROB. i'm upgrading.

 

[Kupo Rose]

Why must people insist on playing this mediocre character?!?!?

We got them gimmicks.

 

[Exceladon City]

i used to main ROB. i'm upgrading.

You're kidding yourself if you think is an upgrade.

 

[stingers]

Sonic doesn't get ASC -> Footstool -> Jab Lock true comboed...ROB does.

CLEARLY an upgrade.

 

[Exceladon City]

Sonic doesn't get ASC -> Footstool -> Jab Lock true comboed...ROB does.

CLEARLY an upgrade.

It's ASC > Footstool > Weak Nair > Jab Lock.

Stingers you will soon realize that there is more work to Sonic than you care to put in.

 

[Tenki]

It's ASC > Footstool > Weak Nair > Jab Lock.

Stingers you will soon realize that there is more work to Sonic than you care to put in.

the weak N-air one is only close-to-guaranteed on fatties.

08 spring jablock ftw

 

[stingers]

is it really? darn. its never actually happened to me, i just remember reading about it like a year and a half ago.

and if wifi is any indication

im pretty much already pro

>4th at MLG Antioch son

 

[Exceladon City]

is it really? darn. its never actually happened to me, i just remember reading about it like a year and a half ago.

and if wifi is any indication

im pretty much already pro

>4th at MLG Antioch son

DEFCON be maaaad. Doesn't DEFCON play Snake or something?

 

[stingers]

idk he used marth and ddd on me.
ANYWAY
i have a hard time figuring out when it's good to spindash and when it's not. i guess its just something that comes with experience

 

[Life]

Sonic has been doing far better in MLG than ROB.

/trollface.jpg

 

[Tenki]

is it really? darn. its never actually happened to me, i just remember reading about it like a year and a half ago.

and if wifi is any indication

im pretty much already pro

>4th at MLG Antioch son

lol he mad.

oh AiB, I miss playing that place. Can only do it on weekends now :3

@ the jab lock thing:
the N-air one works best on ROB, afaik. You need some lucky fall positions or frame perfections to get it to work on some of the others.

Technically, you can do spindash (either one) > footstool > spring > (lagless d-air just to land) > jab lock on almost any character under 30-40%,

...but DI makes it tough to do, since the direction they float after the footstool determines which direction spring bounces them (and by then, you've already done up-B so you're already committed to falling in a specific direction)

----

While we're on jab locks, does anyone else ever think of ending a jab lock with either:
- spindash > reverse spring jab lock
- ASCx2 > aerial combo?

the ASC one is cool for damage and IMO might be the best ending, considering that jab locks are USUALLY done at lower % instead of finishing % where a charged f-smash would kill.

 

[infomon]

why y'all sooooo cynical about new sonics?

new sonics are cool!!! hawwoooo


Sonic's clearly a decent character, he's just sort of a real pain to get anywhere decent with. Ppl usually switch and then give up when some of the gimmicks don't go their way (like stupid spindash SD's.... honestly, make sure you learn the rules behind which your 2nd-jump might be missing!!!)

make sure to learn all the stupid nonsense intricacies of side-b/down-b.......

and THEN a whole lot of situational ridiculous garbage about every freaking matchup.

 

[Exceladon City]

idk he used marth and ddd on me.
ANYWAY
i have a hard time figuring out when it's good to spindash and when it's not. i guess its just something that comes with experience

Sounds like he'd be pretty free then. I guess I'll give him the Excel Knight just because Sonic is ayuss on wifi.

Honestly, I couldn't tell you. I just kinda play. I'm fairly useless for info. I for some reason just discovered how to explain the Toon Link MU though.

Just go to our video archive and watch stuff from KID/Trent/Espy/X/Speed/Shadofiend. I'm not gonna name myself because I'm garbage with Sonic.

 

[Espy Rose]

the weak N-air one is only close-to-guaranteed on fatties.

08 spring jablock ftw

Incorrect, Tenki.
It's guaranteed on ROB.

It's also guaranteed on Mr. G&W and Jigglypuff, so long as you time your fast fall properly.

 

[Tenki]

i have a hard time figuring out when it's good to spindash and when it's not. i guess its just something that comes with experience

In safest play, only use it when they have lag - whether RCO, post-move lag, pre-move lag, internet lag (lol, go crazy on wifi), reaction lag.


But if you really feel like being a more spindash-based player, learn the cancels and nice ways to "restart" and "exit" spindashes (ex: after charging, immediately jump + f/u-air then fast fall > restart).

Incorrect, Tenki.
It's guaranteed on ROB.

It's also guaranteed on Mr. G&W and Jigglypuff, so long as you time your fast fall properly.

oh srs?

I knew ROB was the safest bet, and remember some people saying it works on DDD/Bowser (though I'm apprehensive about that); GW/Jiggs info's new to me.

SD>FSJ business is iffy for me because there are so many positions you can land the footstool (immediately on ground, or around SH height) that it never feels like there's a guaranteed setup

 

[Exceladon City]

Funny thing, I found out about the footstool from someone who was picking up Sonic as a secondary. Boy am I late...

 

[Espy Rose]

I knew ROB was the safest bet, and remember some people saying it works on DDD/Bowser (though I'm apprehensive about that); GW/Jiggs info's new to me.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=255179

 

[Dark 3nergy]

speed i need your help

 

[~TBS~]

huh...what is it? :s

footstools are fun...when i saw espy do it in one of those darn vids though? fffffffffffff

 

[Dark 3nergy]

i need to time out a snake, this one is really mad at me

 

[WedginatorX]

Oh stingers in here? Those dittos were fun earlier XD

 

[stingers]

god I got ***** lol. yeah they were fun though =p

 

[Pikabunz]

X's matches are up.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Jaran8384

 

[~TBS~]

I dont know how to time out snakes...the ones i always play reads me to death. :s

they play me alot and know the MU so its kinda hard to camp snake when you're getting bombarded with nades and getting put into bad situations.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

whats the best way to run away bb

on sonic obvi, im running as fast as these stick legs can carry me

 

[da K.I.D.]

i used to main ROB. i'm upgrading.

this kid knows what hes talking about.

You're kidding yourself if you think is an upgrade.

this kid is delusional

the weak N-air one is only close-to-guaranteed on fatties.

like rob...

idk he used marth and ddd on me.
ANYWAY
i have a hard time figuring out when it's good to spindash and when it's not. i guess its just something that comes with experience

a good time to spindash is when you arent going to get punished for it. and how often you get punished for it is entirely dependant on your knowledge with and skillful use of the move.

While we're on jab locks, does anyone else ever think of ending a jab lock with either:
- spindash > reverse spring jab lock
- ASCx2 > aerial combo?

the ASC one is cool for damage and IMO might be the best ending, considering that jab locks are USUALLY done at lower % instead of finishing % where a charged f-smash would kill.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_wkWU8dIYw
first move of the game.

SD>FSJ business is iffy for me because there are so many positions you can land the footstool (immediately on ground, or around SH height) that it never feels like there's a guaranteed setup

its guaranteed when you practice it enough to do it right everytime.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_wkWU8dIYw
also, note the jab lock possibilitys present at 3:12, that would be great for a stage like bf and sv.

 

[Browny]

X's matches are up.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Jaran8384

thanks

lmao @ d0jo. 'get wrecked' just isnt strong enough. that 1-stock rematch was atrocious, X's timeouts are sexy

 

[BSP]

MKs always look so jumpy when they vs. sonic. They need to relax more imo