Scar talks Lean Melee [2012YotF]

[Wangster]

scar du u have ne tips against jigglypuff and peaches, dees guys annoy me lol

 

[Reaver197]

Scar, I heard you were going to DJ Nintendo's thing today (actually, yesterday, but whatever), so I got super-excited and went there, but then you never showed up. Needless to say, I was shattered and deeply saddened. Then DJ's Bowser beat the crap out of my Falcon. : (

For real, though, it was lots of fun. It's too bad you couldn't make it.

 

[Scar]

scar du u have ne tips against jigglypuff and peaches, dees guys annoy me lol

Jigglypuff is a mystery to us all, I could go on and on about why she's gay but not give you much help actually. WoP is gay, if you can get under her then uair of course but if she's good she won't let that happen.

If you run at her with knee, she'll prob just float away with her insane aerial movement game, DO NOT nair her, it will rarely hit with both hits which is worthless, just uair whenever you can and knee soon to finish the combo, if you catch her with bad DI it will kill.

From what I've heard, bair is very annoying vs Jiggs. Bair comes out fast and does have a good bit of priority, so if she approaches just run away and bair her, space it and at least annoy the **** out of her. Don't let her get you to the ledge, try to control the stage, don't just run in and grab because you can get rested out of it, and if you ever do get a grab try not to **** up the dthrow>knee.

Peach is pretty gay too and the matchup is way different than most others. Her dash attack beats your nair which is weird b/c Falcon's nair has a lot of priority. You need to be smart here. Don't approach much since Peach isn't nearly as mobile as you are, she will make a mistake eventually, in my experience this matchup is pretty interesting in that I usually just wait for 1 hit and combo her half to death.

If you can kill Peach in 2 solid combos per stock, she probably won't give you many problems. Choose FD at your own risk, Peach can cg Falcon 0-70ish and then finish with a nair and a tech chase, all said and done you may take 90% after the whole ordeal, and DIing off the stage is an okay idea but she can mix up with fthrow, which means you're pretty far offstage, and with Peach's gay edgeguard you're probably dead at that point.

Something obvious I feel I should say, train yourself not to jump into dsmash on platforms, no your uair will not beat it. Dsmash in general is pretty gay but you can get around it, if she's hitting your shield with float dair if you hold left or right on the cstick while shielding you can buffer roll before she float cancel smashes you (I think).

A good counterpick vs both of them is absolutely Pokemon Stadium, it gives you a lot of room to run around with the least amount of room for their insane recovery, and their lightness + Falcon's kill power makes Stadium just short of ideal.

Scar, I heard you were going to DJ Nintendo's thing today (actually, yesterday, but whatever), so I got super-excited and went there, but then you never showed up. Needless to say, I was shattered and deeply saddened. Then DJ's Bowser beat the crap out of my Falcon. : (

For real, though, it was lots of fun. It's too bad you couldn't make it.

lol Yeah I thought I had a ride secured but then like the day before I asked if we were going and apparently he had changed his mind, so yeah I couldn't make it. Tragic.

 

[RaynEX]

Vs. Peach on Platforms usmash works well. It won't drag you into the rest of the hits and it will sometimes hit her for a free knee at mid/low percents.

 

[DrewB008]

actually i had an argument with jiano about that and it turned out if you do the up smash at the beginning of her dsmash it can suck you up. i usually just wait and stomp/knee.

something else about jiggs i think people should know is that stomp works pretty well, but its very tempting to short hop stomp out of shield when she lands behind you (since its a good idea vs lots of other characters), and that is a free utilt rest for her. also id recommend never going for dthrow knee if the jiggs doesnt DI, cause ive seen too many rests out of that.

dont fastfall stomps vs peach when shes dsmashing other than that i dunno i play against every peach pretty differently.

 

[Cia]

Jigglypuff is a mystery to us all, I could go on and on about why she's gay but not give you much help actually

Peach is pretty gay too and the matchup is way different than most others. Her dash attack beats your nair which is weird b/c Falcon's nair has a lot of priority.

Johns .

 

[Wangster]

peach is sooo annoying to face but not as much as a falco cuz falco can rip through falcons priority. What's da best way to approach falco? if i jump, he can catch me in a dair, if i dashdance i get lasered to dair to shine combo which i get out at 90%, ne suggestions?

 

[JonaDiaper]

full jump falling u air, or full jump single nair to grab then tech chase

you gotta avoid the lasers so full jumping is the way to go

raptor boost goes under the lasers sometimes so that can work to

out of shield dair if there shield pressuring you, just make sure you wait until after the shine

 

[PolMex23]

Well what I learned is that...

Against Falco, every grab must mean something. Make use of every grab as your last.

That is all.

 

[Scar]

peach is sooo annoying to face but not as much as a falco cuz falco can rip through falcons priority. What's da best way to approach falco? if i jump, he can catch me in a dair, if i dashdance i get lasered to dair to shine combo which i get out at 90%, ne suggestions?

Yeah getting around lasers is hard, but getting around lasers AND Falco's ridiculously broken dair is the real challenge.

First, learn to powershield, it will help. Second, familiarized yourself with your possible approaches, raptor boost would be good to go under lasers if used wisely, but if you start spamming it it won't work against campy Falcos.

Nair goes over low lasers, so shffl nairs instead of short hopping to approach when you're far away, mix that up with PSing when you can so that lasers don't completley shut you down when you're long distance.

Your approaches are very limited but as always nair is your best option. If you ever get in close vs Falco and he tries to run away chase him down with a non-fastfalled sh knee, keep it out there so you can get max distance, you'll probably hit with the weak knee and turn that into a grab.

Basically take anything he gives you and really do your worst to him once you've gotten your hands on him.

Against Falco, every grab must mean something. Make use of every grab as your last.

Very good advice.

 

[JonaDiaper]

what is, PSing?

 

[Scar]

lol powershielding, good morning

 

[JonaDiaper]

........dam lol

i was like what is this new technique?!?!?!

 

[JBM falcon08]

doesn't falco's nair destroy falcon?

 

[Scar]

No more than Fox's does, Falco has less aerial movement so he really can't cover as much ground with his nair, and if you let Falco hit you with basically any aerial, fair included, he can combo you to about a billion.

Dair is more deadly, I think.

 

[JonaDiaper]

i really dont understand how falcon beats falco.

its like we get ***** for 100% then stomp knee and were ahead.

its so.......sexy

 

[JBM falcon08]

yeah more than likely the dair does dominate falcon.

like fox, falcos nair is probably the better option for approaches since the hitbow is much larger.

falcon just has a raelly hard time lol.

 

[Scar]

Falcon can outprioritize Falco's nair, and it's easier than Fox's to space again because of Falco's slow horizontal movement. Dair is impossible to beat, I think the best you can do is trade, unless your nair is crazy high... not sure, I'd have to think about that or try it out.

But yeah it's a tough match, and lasers really do make the whole thing way more annoying. I think Falco is a harder matchup than Fox.

 

[JonaDiaper]

i agree,

i think fox is alot easier the falco. but its only because of the laser.

i think they can both combo you just about equally. fox just has to be more creative

 

[Spife]

Scar, how bad does falcon beast Link? I have like 8 or 9 months experience with the match up so I don't think it's THAT bad but well I haven't played a high level falcon i na while.

 

[Magus420]

Not sure about Falcon, but with Ganon CC Jab to Grab or aerial beats their n-air approaches pretty well until you have somewhat high damage and is a very good trade. Maybe CC to DD grab, SH spaced aerial, fwd-B or f-smash with their pullback dodge on startup, or if they hit you high enough with the n-air maybe gentleman to grab or aerial or just directly into a grab could work well?

 

[Scar]

Link gets thrashed. Do not attempt.

 

[JonaDiaper]

lololol

lolink

 

[Da Shuffla]

Tech skill exercises?

 

[Wangster]

Tech skill exercises?

i usually train against lvl 1 foxes (n e character actually) and try to techchase combo them. training against lvl 9s gives u bad habits lol

 

[Spife]

Link gets thrashed. Do not attempt.

My question was a little rhetorical but great answer.
Next time I'll MM you for 5 pesos, with 5 pesos on the line I can't lose!

 

[Scar]

Tech skill exercises?

Cactuar has given me some pretty excellent ones.

They all require a DK/Bowser/Ganon (I prefer Ganon for nair stuff) at .5 damage ratio and max handicapped, with a second controller. Lv1s will jab you and higher than that they're just crazy annoying.

Practice shffl timings, I like to shffl nair as fast as I possibly can against these opponents.
Practice a shffl to a dash as fast as you possibly can
Practice a shffl to a backwards dash as fast as you possibly can
Practice a shffl to a backwards dash to another shffl, trying to minimize the distance you run before you jump while still getting full horizontal momentum

This is a good place to start, it will solidify some muscle memory to make you combo better.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

Not sure about Falcon, but with Ganon CC Jab to Grab or aerial beats their n-air approaches pretty well until you have somewhat high damage and is a very good trade. Maybe CC to DD grab, SH spaced aerial, fwd-B or f-smash with their pullback dodge on startup, or if they hit you high enough with the n-air maybe gentleman to grab or aerial or just directly into a grab could work well?

Why just not CC grab? Is it to slow?

 

[Magus420]

I think it can work, but when you wait for the hit and react to them n-airing you I find his jab to be more reliable if they hit really low. If you try to do it too soon you'll lose the crouch. Against something like CF's n-air I just spam jab while CCing since you can just ASDI CC the first hit anyway and hit before the 2nd. Plus if the Falco/Fox spaces it well their standing grab ranges kinda blow and getting a JC grab off before they can act seems like it'd be iffy.

 

[xXx-NoobKing-xXx]

Not sure about Falcon, but with Ganon CC Jab to Grab or aerial beats their n-air approaches pretty well until you have somewhat high damage and is a very good trade. Maybe CC to DD grab, SH spaced aerial, fwd-B or f-smash with their pullback dodge on startup, or if they hit you high enough with the n-air maybe gentleman to grab or aerial or just directly into a grab could work well?

Well said Magus.

 

[3747373796432]

If I space an aerial against Fox or Falco and they whiff a shield grab what can I use to punish them?

 

[Ripple]

my friend gets absolutely ***** by my Roy and wants to know how to thrash me like scar did to me at event 52

 

[Scar]

lol Hey Ripple, I remember that set. Glad you made it out of pools.

Tell him that Roy sucks and he's just not playing smart, tell him if he camps you he should be able to grab or nair you, and if he grabs or nairs you he should be able to kill you, and if he can't then he should probably work on combos and followups in general.

@ Stabby that is a very situationally dependent question but in general your best option there would be to grab them back, and if you don't have enough time and they're going to spot dodge just run up to them and shffl a knee, it should smack them right in the face.

 

[Ripple]

scar, are you giong to SMYM 9 in Feb? I would love to have some friendlies with you there and we could possibly team with you since I never have a partner at these things( teamed with wife for friendlies against M2K and someone else and beat them quite a few times, fun games). I have improved greatly since event 52. lol, my friends started calling me the falcon slayer because I worked so hard on my match up with falcon after you crushed me that I almost never lose to anyone around my area that plays falcon.

 

[JonaDiaper]

show him wats good scar lol

 

[Scar]

lol I've beaten quite a few Falcon Slayers in my day, Cactuar is the only one who will consistently **** me (and I think destroy every other CF ever too), but that's just because he's a better player than I am all other things equal.

Anyways no I don't think I'm going to make SMYM even though I really want to, I mean it's only a 1 day tourny and it's like a 15 hour drive. No thanks, but good luck anyways. I think I'm going to TGMTSBCO tho...

 

[strangely mundane]

just wondering what are prime combo percentages for floaties, fastfallers, and semi-floaties, every time i hit someone i can never seem to follow up.

 

[Omni_Smash]

Learning to play Falcon and I'm seeing some progress, my question is what is my best approach with C-Falcon against Doctor Mario. The Doc I play loves to CC my Nair and do random crap, I'm shffl'ing appropriately now and I use a Jab/grab/stomp reset after anything that gets sheilded so what should I do for approaches? and what should I do when they get nerfed?

 

[Scar]

Short answer: 20-30%
Fastfallers: 70%
Floaties: ASAP

It's really character and DI dependent, but there is almost always a way to combo every character that is not a floaty or a fastfaller between 15 and 100%. It's just a matter of familiarizing yourself with your options, predicting and reacting to DI, and becoming as quick as you can with getting those moves out and immediately moving to where the opponent is going to be.

But to answer your question,
Floaties (Peach, Jiggs, M2): They usually DI up, I could see a stomp at like 10% working nicely into nair>uair>knee
-knee them ASAP, up DI will get them out after 1st hit of nair, and uair will send them too high to follow up

Big Chars (Ganon/DK/Bowser): Grab at around 20% should be amazing, or a nair at any percent that picks them up.

Smaller Chars (Mario, Ness, YL): You can usually catch them with dthrow>nair if they DI away, catching them at 20% sounds great.

Perfect Weight (Link, Sheik, Marth): They really can't DI out of nair that well and usually go exactly where you want them to after all your aerials. Any sort of dair popup, random nair juggle, or grab setup should combo very well at almost any percent between 15 and 80, probably upwards of 90 for Link.

Fastfallers: You can get some nice combos vs up DI after a nair at like 60... at 90% I used to uthrow nair knee vs people I knew would DI in, if they do it's a guaranteed kill. You need to be VERY fast to combo fastfallers with nair, if they get above you just uair repeatedly and make sure you knee before they DI away.

@ OMNI: Nair. Nair goes through pills and if you connect with the second hit you can combo Doc to hell. Dair will beat it, if he starts spaming dair then do your best to run away and grab him, dair beats your everything, luckily it only does about 5 damage and has nearly no knockback and bad followup options for Doc.

 

[NES n00b]

How do I become so good (or something) that people cheer for me during matches? Cause as a Falcon, there is a requirement for people to cheer for you against everyone.