Scar talks Lean Melee [2012YotF]

[AZenith]

I'm too lazy to go through 22 pages of posts so I will ask this question anyways. My question is basically tech chasing after various throws. Say you are playing someone you have never played before so the opponents habits are out of the question, it is purely what you should do the majority of the time that I want to know. What do you do before you see the player anything like teching, rolling, does nothing, get up attack, whatever they do? Say I am facing > and I down throw them, I always start by dash dancing starting this way < but either I am extremely unlucky or I am just not doing the right things because I seem to miss my opportunities to do anything very often. I wasn't sure exactly what I wanted to know so this might be too general or confusing but I hope you can respond somehow. thanks

 

[NES n00b]

I'm too lazy to go through 22 pages of posts so I will ask this question anyways. My question is basically tech chasing after various throws. Say you are playing someone you have never played before so the opponents habits are out of the question, it is purely what you should do the majority of the time that I want to know. What do you do before you see the player anything like teching, rolling, does nothing, get up attack, whatever they do? Say I am facing > and I down throw them, I always start by dash dancing starting this way < but either I am extremely unlucky or I am just not doing the right things because I seem to miss my opportunities to do anything very often. I wasn't sure exactly what I wanted to know so this might be too general or confusing but I hope you can respond somehow. thanks

I am not scar, but I will try to answer anyways. The first tech chase is always pure guess, but most people have similar reactions and tech patterns. First base it on what most people do for example if you start running one way he will most likely roll the other way etc. Eventually, from seeing the first couple of times he rolls, you should already be ready from experience to know what to do since you have played people with similar tech patterns before. If you think he is going to roll left or right but you are not sure where and so want to do it by pure reaction, then first start running foward then when he is about to tech (or not tech) run backwards. Watch the roll and see where the animation shows it will go then go that way.

 

[DrewB008]

i was gonna try to answer this but i realized i have no idea what i base it on. i pretty much just straight up guess. i take what will be the easiest for me to reach and what will give me the biggest benefit into account more than i actually take their habits into account, unless they have really noticeable patterns.

 

[Doggalina]

Scar, I read that you think that counterpick stages are gay, but why don't you ever use DK64? From my experience, it's a phenomenal stage that a) gives you more options when recovering, b)has a little indent in the middle that makes comboing easier, and c) has sexy moving platforms that can be used for sexy combos.

Basically, my question is: Is it as great a Falcon stage as I think it is? Or am I just imagining things?

 

[JonaDiaper]

if scar dont do it, then your just imagining things

 

[NES n00b]

Scar, I read that you think that counterpick stages are gay, but why don't you ever use DK64? From my experience, it's a phenomenal stage that a) gives you more options when recovering, b)has a little indent in the middle that makes comboing easier, and c) has sexy moving platforms that can be used for sexy combos.

Basically, my question is: Is it as great a Falcon stage as I think it is? Or am I just imagining things?

You are imagining things. Brinstar is pretty much the only counterpick stage that is not totally gay against falcon.

Edit: Well that and poke floats and rainbow cruise but the chance of your opponent just choosing fox negating any advantages you had and making the matchup worse is pretty high.

 

[Doggalina]

1.i consider DK64 to be falcon's best stage because the 2 platforms on opposite sides make it MUCH harder for characters to edgeguard you. if you land on those, you can DI your opponent's hit (they'll hit you in an attempt to edgeguard you) and then you can downb so you're under the stage, then use your extra jump + a uair to get back on the stage. here are some of the pros DK64 gives you against competitive characters.

fox -> barrel and opposite platforms make this the only stage other than brinstar you have a remote CHANCE of recovering on. the middle of the stage is slanted and allows you to dodge lasers, and move in with a nair -> grab.
falco -> same as fox pretty much except in this case his upb is crappy so he can't even reach the platforms at the top of the stage. slanted stage helps once again for dodging shl's and getting grabs; barrel makes recovery a lot easier.
sheik -> i'll admit sheik doesn't really have a 'bad' stage, however sheik will never be using the top platforms to recover on because falcon is able to punish with a knee. the rotating platforms are great for avoiding her platform techchasing.
marth -> it's hard for marth to edgeguard you here because you can upb onto the upper platforms and the best he can punish you with are his weak aerials. he can't platform techchase you on the rotating platforms at all, and the barrel is borderline-useless for him because his horizontal aerial movement is junk.
samus -> she can't grapple-beam to recover, which kills her durability. the best counterpick against samus without a doubt.

The thread's a year or so old, but in it there was a lot of DK64 love.

 

[JonaDiaper]

wow i remember seeing that a long time ago

thats when i sucked

good times

 

[ArcNatural]

I'm too lazy to go through 22 pages of posts so I will ask this question anyways. My question is basically tech chasing after various throws. Say you are playing someone you have never played before so the opponents habits are out of the question, it is purely what you should do the majority of the time that I want to know. What do you do before you see the player anything like teching, rolling, does nothing, get up attack, whatever they do? Say I am facing > and I down throw them, I always start by dash dancing starting this way < but either I am extremely unlucky or I am just not doing the right things because I seem to miss my opportunities to do anything very often. I wasn't sure exactly what I wanted to know so this might be too general or confusing but I hope you can respond somehow. thanks

Don't dash dance, walk. Dashdancing is seriously overrated when trying to tech chase. Often people don't even know why they are dashdancing in the situation. Unless your dashdances are incredibly tight you can often dash dance out of range of rolls without even realizing it.

I tend to assume tech in place, and if I can I try to attack behind the tech in place spot. That way if they recover I'll be behind them, and if they roll backwards as long as you l-cancel correctly you can still grab some of the rolls.

After the first couple, it's very important to notice if they miss techs more often than they don't.

 

[DrewB008]

dk64's not bad for falcon, but probably not as good as a possible neutral pick

 

[WHA?]

well scar i got some problems with falcos approaching with lasers and whatnot
once i get a good hit in, or start a descent combo i am ok, but getting that initial hit/grab is the hard part
i can get SOME shield grabs, but i know it is not very reliable
rolling around to avoid the lazers kinda works, at least better than just shielding them
and lazers on my shield pretty much **** me cause i can't attack out of shield or flee due to shield stun
if u got some vids of u vs a falco, that u think would benefit me, i would appreciate it, along with help u can post

just throwing it out there for anyone.......... since some questions answered by ppl other than scar are also pretty helpful

 

[NES n00b]

just throwing it out there for anyone.......... since some questions answered by ppl other than scar are also pretty helpful

The way I know how to get past lasers is just the obvious ways to avoid them until I think I know when they are going to laser and it is possible to hit them. Once that happens, I hit him with nair before the laser shoots. It becomes harder when the person has really good spacing (IE knows when he is safe to laser but close enough to take advantage) while also mixing up when he is going to laser.

Basically, hit him when you think he is going to laser and you can. When you can't hit him, sheild or jump away on a platform.

 

[~GregDang!~]

Alright, I'm just starting Falcon and I wanna know how to practice with him and I guess make him consistent.

 

[JonaDiaper]

FD, no time limit, falcon only.

and OMG war graymon was always my favorite digimon!

its been so long since ive seen the original shows.

lol i remember i went to see the digimon movie

but yea, practice shffl's first of course.

then try dair's to knee on fox at like 50 ish percent.

you gotta learn how to moonwalk.

um yea

 

[~GregDang!~]

Thanks for the comment on my Sig. I guess a lot of people on the Boards appreciate Digimon, but yea Moonkwalking. I find it tough to do. What's a simple way to do it?

 

[Reaver197]

lol, you don't have to learn how to moonwalk. In fact, it's not something you should worry about until you're better at shffling and that sort of things.

Moonwalking is the sexy icing you add after finishing your awesome Captain Falcon cake.

 

[KeyKid19]

lol, you don't have to learn how to moonwalk. In fact, it's not something you should worry about until you're better at shffling and that sort of things.

Moonwalking is the sexy icing you add after finishing your awesome Captain Falcon cake.

Reaver dude, if you're ever down in FL, let me know. I'm back in the Melee groove and am finally stepping up my Falcon game. It's not that great yet (more inconsistent than anything, but I get better everyday which is encouraging), but it would still be awesome to have some matches with you.

Also, if I'm ever in NY, I'm hunting you down! lol

As for a question, which I feel obligated to ask since I am posting here (would hate to waste space):

Stages. I know almost nothing regarding character matchups in relation to what stages are good for Falcon and such. I have a very vague idea about some, but overall, I am fairly out of the loop in this regard. As a result, my question is this: Best stages to face Sheik and Doc on? I was thinking maybe Rainbow Cruise/Pokefloats for Sheik and maybe DK64 for Doc? I don't know. Hence why I'm asking.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Reaver197]

Holy crap, Keykid. Its been too long. I would love to play you sometime, but I just can't feasibly think of when. I occasionally have been down to Florida to visit my grandparents there, but the last time my family did that was a good few years ago. But, yeah, I'll definitely be thinking of you if I do wind up there for whatever reason, lol. We've also got some good accommodations for where I live, so you're more than welcome to stop by if you happen to be in the northeast somehow, lol.

Anyway, personally, for Sheik, I'd go Yoshi's Story. Lets you kill her nice and quick, but for you it doesn't matter, because if you're off the stage, you're pretty much as good as dead against a good Sheik anyway, lol. As for Doc, I'm not as familiar with him, but I heard DK64 wasn't a good stage to fight against Doc on, probably because of cape edgeguards.

 

[NES n00b]

Anyway, personally, for Sheik, I'd go Yoshi's Story. Lets you kill her nice and quick, but for you it doesn't matter, because if you're off the stage, you're pretty much as good as dead against a good Sheik anyway, lol. As for Doc, I'm not as familiar with him, but I heard DK64 wasn't a good stage to fight against Doc on, probably because of cape edgeguards.

Sheik on Yoshi Story platforms = sad me.

 

[JBM falcon08]

cps shouldn't just be judged by how easily you can kill your opponent, but by what stage will help you capitalize on their mistakes and give you the upper hand.

 

[Reaver197]

Well, in general, my matches against Sheik fare a bit better on Yoshi's Island (or at least go quicker, lol). But, it's not really a hugely better than how I perform on essentially any other level (except Fountain of Dreams, which can go kill itself). Anyway, it seems to me that a lot of matches against Sheik can hinge upon whether your knees lead to kills. Having a Sheik live and be able to return to the stage only gives her more of an opportunity to kill you instead, which is not something you want to give to Sheiks. Plus, YI gives you some opportunities for walljump trixies, which might possibly let you return against a Sheik edgeguard.

Though, come to think of it, DK64 might be a good CP since it makes it harder for Sheiks to sweetspot the ledge. Hmm...

 

[Tero.]

KJ64 is like on of sheiks best stages.
Sheik eg is crazy like hell on that stage.

 

[Doggalina]

but I heard DK64 wasn't a good stage to fight against Doc on, probably because of cape edgeguards.

Why would cape edgeguards be any worse here than anywhere else? You can recover on the top platform, too, and if you get caped there, you can DI onto the stage.

 

[Reaver197]

I just searched for the super old thread that I remembered reading that in, and it turns out I remembered it incorrectly. DK64 apparently is a great stage to counter pick Docs against. Sorry about that.

 

[RaynEX]

Brinstar is a good Falcon level.

Beyond that its like...yea DK64 and other big levels that Falcon can run around on. Cruise and Floats?

 

[KirbyKaze]

taking ic to floats is gay and stupid and mean and you're a gigantic ***got if you do it even if you main a manly character like falcon

 

[JonaDiaper]

lol thats just like taking dk to floats.

and laser camping....

with fox.....

lol

 

[KirbyKaze]

no it's completely different because fox is gay therefore you expect gay things whereas falcon is straight so you don't expect turbo-homosexuality like pokefloats

 

[Scar]

ICs are gay, take them to Floats.

 

[KirbyKaze]

dammit scar don't undermine me

 

[JonaDiaper]

lol scar has spoken.

 

[JBM falcon08]

a win is a win.

Like ivan drago says.

"If he dies, He dies" LOL.

 

[KeyKid19]

(except Fountain of Dreams, which can go kill itself)

Is FoD like the worst Falcon stage in the game? I thought I was just really bad there but now that you say you hate it too, it makes me wonder whether it's a me thing or a Falcon thing.

Is there any like Falcon stage thread that talks about optimal stages for Falcon or even like where to take various characters on counterpicks? I usually just go somewhere I like since I don't really know what to do otherwise. lol

 

[JonaDiaper]

well theres this

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=106269

the old conterpick/ban list

but its like......old

 

[Reaver197]

Is FoD like the worst Falcon stage in the game? I thought I was just really bad there but now that you say you hate it too, it makes me wonder whether it's a me thing or a Falcon thing.

Is there any like Falcon stage thread that talks about optimal stages for Falcon or even like where to take various characters on counterpicks? I usually just go somewhere I like since I don't really know what to do otherwise. lol

Lol, I don't think it's the worst Falcon stage in the game, it's just, most of the time, the least favorable stage of the neutral stages. If I had to choose the worst Falcon stage ever, it'd probably his home stage, funnily enough. It's just that the constantly raising and lowering platforms can interrupt Falcon's flow. It's not a very strong or direct influence, but it's enough of one to generally make Falcon's perform worse there than in comparison to other neutral stages. Plus, I also had this one friend that loved FoD so much, he'd always choose that stage to play on, which only added to wearing down any enthusiasm I had for that stage, lol.

Choosing stages for Falcon can be heavily influenced by how you personally handle certain characters on certain stages. There's a few definite things, like choosing Yoshi's Island for fighting a Samus or a Jiggly. However, for fighting characters like Sheik, spacies, Marth, etc, it comes down to personal preference and experience.

 

[DrewB008]

falcon is pretty good on mute actually, everybodys recovery sucks there so its a decent equalizer in that respect.

FoD is straight garbs but corneria is probably the one i think is the worst

 

[Zephyr]

Are you kidding? I love Corneria as Falcon. It just seems so much easier for me to tech chase and get unfair kills off the left. =P

 

[DrewB008]

good luck getting a fox who lasers and then chills under the fin to end up all the way on the left

 

[Zephyr]

lol. Since I use a fox that does just that, I know how to get him out. =P

Stages are pretty nice for me to play Falcon on. It's a lot harder to get off good knees on the character selection screen than on a Melee stage.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

I take everyone to gay stages muhahahahaha [/fox main]