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Scar talks Lean Melee [2012YotF]
- Thread starter Scar
- Start date
Scar
#HarveyDent
Peach is really stupid and I'm not that good at the matchup either. Patience is key, of which I have very little. Once you hit her you can kill her and it's as simple as getting really good @ comboing, if you're not that good then I don't think it's a winning matchup for CF.
FD is gay b/c of the cg, but don't ban it IMO because it's easy enough not to get grabbed, most peaches will prefer to CC dsmash than grab anyways, and she's combo fodder on that stage even for bad CF players, Fountain blows, ban it IMO, mute is gay as hell, so it's a tough match if you aren't killing her often enough.
In other words work on your combos and be patient, wait for openings and don't be stupid. Peach punishes very well, don't make mistakes and you will be fine. Just by trading single hits and eventually baiting a dsmash and kneeing her at 90.
Zoso, Cactuar blows, which is why he quit lolololol
FD is gay b/c of the cg, but don't ban it IMO because it's easy enough not to get grabbed, most peaches will prefer to CC dsmash than grab anyways, and she's combo fodder on that stage even for bad CF players, Fountain blows, ban it IMO, mute is gay as hell, so it's a tough match if you aren't killing her often enough.
In other words work on your combos and be patient, wait for openings and don't be stupid. Peach punishes very well, don't make mistakes and you will be fine. Just by trading single hits and eventually baiting a dsmash and kneeing her at 90.
Zoso, Cactuar blows, which is why he quit lolololol
RaynEX
Colonel RTSD
lol Bob is lucky Cactus doesn't search his name anymore...
otherwise ready to rumble 2 in this thread n_gga.
Scar I'm uploading our vids as I type this.
otherwise ready to rumble 2 in this thread n_gga.
Scar I'm uploading our vids as I type this.
Scar v. Rayn? epic
Scar
#HarveyDent
Where? I can't find them on youtube.
Edit: I would be SHOCKED if he did in fact stop namesearching.
Edit: I would be SHOCKED if he did in fact stop namesearching.
Scar
#HarveyDent
Bump and I know I didn't answer a bunch of questions from like a week back, if there's anything you've yet to figure out that you think I can help with feel free to ask again.
Uploading vids is such a pain...
Uploading vids is such a pain...
Keblerelf
Smash Ace
reposting~~~
Scar
#HarveyDent
lol Great question. Luigi is one of those characters where you really need to be patient, if you hit him with uair his nair is ready almost immediately after your uair lag ends, his combos and tech chases can be deadly, and edgeguarding him really is a pain if you don't have a solid gameplan.
When it comes to comboing patience is key, realize that you just can't get some of the crazy **** you can do to Doc or Mario and just settle for a nair > uair and run away. Raptor boost to uair, run away. Knee is a better option than uair almost always so use it if you can hit, also Luigi won't nair you offstage if he's in danger of dying so uair chains are very easy if he's already over the abyss.
Speed is also a huge factor in comboing Luigi, you can do a LOT of things you thought impossible once your dashes are nearly frame-perfect and your ffs are timed correctly, etc.
Luigi vs Falcon is really fast and full of combos, so really the best advice is to not get hit. Once you do just remember to DI his throws behind him, forward DI will send you straight up vs luigi's uthrow and dthrow. Don't get mad or impatient if he combos you to death, it happens and you just have to do the same back to him.
Don't try to tech the coin! lol I do it all the time and I die. Good Luigis save their jump, so they fB over to the stage, downB to gain height/stall, then DJ then upB. If you can stomp him after a fB that would be awesome, he's really vulnerable then and it forces him to double jump, most people can't cancel that well either so you'll probably end up taking the stock. Otherwise don't hang onto the ledge for too long, he may dj fair you which will prob result in death.
Stay patient, stay cool, this match is slightly in Falcon's favor IMO.
When it comes to comboing patience is key, realize that you just can't get some of the crazy **** you can do to Doc or Mario and just settle for a nair > uair and run away. Raptor boost to uair, run away. Knee is a better option than uair almost always so use it if you can hit, also Luigi won't nair you offstage if he's in danger of dying so uair chains are very easy if he's already over the abyss.
Speed is also a huge factor in comboing Luigi, you can do a LOT of things you thought impossible once your dashes are nearly frame-perfect and your ffs are timed correctly, etc.
Luigi vs Falcon is really fast and full of combos, so really the best advice is to not get hit. Once you do just remember to DI his throws behind him, forward DI will send you straight up vs luigi's uthrow and dthrow. Don't get mad or impatient if he combos you to death, it happens and you just have to do the same back to him.
Don't try to tech the coin! lol I do it all the time and I die. Good Luigis save their jump, so they fB over to the stage, downB to gain height/stall, then DJ then upB. If you can stomp him after a fB that would be awesome, he's really vulnerable then and it forces him to double jump, most people can't cancel that well either so you'll probably end up taking the stock. Otherwise don't hang onto the ledge for too long, he may dj fair you which will prob result in death.
Stay patient, stay cool, this match is slightly in Falcon's favor IMO.
LOLOLOLOL teching the coin
Parker1006
Smash Journeyman
Question. Any tips for playing 2v2 with Falcon? Who makes a good teammate with Falcon?
JonaDiaper
Smash Champion
falcon of course.
or falco to for laser saves on falcons recovery
or falco to for laser saves on falcons recovery
JonaDiaper
Smash Champion
scar, did you have dittos with darkrain?? and jiano??
did you record them?
can you upload them for the people who werent fortunate enough to go ?
did you record them?
can you upload them for the people who werent fortunate enough to go ?
Iceman12
Smash Journeyman
Falco's shine does wonders for saving Falcon, di'ing into stage and walltech for the winz.
Scar
#HarveyDent
Yeah I have scar v jiano in pools, I'll upload them.
JonaDiaper
Smash Champion
MikeHaggarTHAKJB
Smash Master
^^reposting^^ Awesome
1. Advice/tips/anything about edgeguarding with falcon would be cool
(As for which chars to edgeguard: all the top/high tiers basically)
2. IS THERE a reliable, inescapeable throw->knee combo at a reasonably low ko percentage on samus? (that can't be DI'd)
4. What do you prefer doing on floaties/semi floaties out of raptor boosts? There are so many options, just wondering what you prefer doing
strangely mundane
Smash Journeyman
How do I edgeguard with Falcon? lots of times I find myself at a loss as to what to do with them?
JonaDiaper
Smash Champion
ooo i know,
if there high up and away go and u-air them.
if there low and away grab the ledge and drop down bair.
um if theyre right under you grab the ledge and i guess just roll with L or R,
and punish if they land on the ledge.
umm other then up tilt works cuz it goes under the stage.
idk what else. ill leave it to scar.
if there high up and away go and u-air them.
if there low and away grab the ledge and drop down bair.
um if theyre right under you grab the ledge and i guess just roll with L or R,
and punish if they land on the ledge.
umm other then up tilt works cuz it goes under the stage.
idk what else. ill leave it to scar.
if its last stock run off and FALCON PAUUUNCH
JonaDiaper
Smash Champion
^^^
that
that
for real though...run off and knee works well even if its just a weak knee...especially if theyve used their second jump
RaynEX
Colonel RTSD
Use lightshield vs. Marth. I use it sometimes vs. spacies and other one hit recoveries. It knocks you off the stage and you can jump back on and knee with invincibility frames.
Use utilt alot.
Low angled ftilt sometimes for illusions.
In general keep your back facing the edge. If its a fox/falco and you see that they are lining themselves up for a sweetspot, WD->FF hog. If it turns out they went up or straight...jump back on and chase with knee or grab.
Use utilt alot.
Low angled ftilt sometimes for illusions.
In general keep your back facing the edge. If its a fox/falco and you see that they are lining themselves up for a sweetspot, WD->FF hog. If it turns out they went up or straight...jump back on and chase with knee or grab.
Scar
#HarveyDent
VERY character dependent, any specific ones you have a problem with?How do I edgeguard with Falcon? lots of times I find myself at a loss as to what to do with them?
I usually just dthrow knee at high %s, literally between 60 and 120 if they DI in it autocombos into knee, otherwise actually it doesn't work that much. Samus can be kneed otherwise with relative ease though, just bait her into dsmashing or fsmashing your shield, knee out of shield works every time. Also lightshielding their screw attack = free knee or bair if they DI behind you, then edgeguard.
I dislike non-neutrals but Green Greens is good IMO because it's big and has extremely small sides, although blocks gimp your recovery hard, Mute... whatever. Japes isn't horrible either. RC and Floats are supposed to be great because it's harder to camp space on moving stages, i.e. the opponent usually is forced to jump and you can get under them with your speed. I personally don't like them but whatever.
DK64 is also supposed to be great for Falcon because the platforms on the side are low enough for a second recovery option, barrel helps your recovery a lot, and it's pretty big. Again I dislike it.
Now that I think about it I pretty much uair everyone after raptor boost, besides spacies at low %s in which case I grab. After the uair depending on DI and % I'll either regrab, nair, uair again or knee.4. What do you prefer doing on floaties/semi floaties out of raptor boosts? There are so many options, just wondering what you prefer doing
strangely mundane
Smash Journeyman
Sry knew that question was kinda vague.. I guess sheik
Scar
#HarveyDent
Sheik is terribly difficult to edgeguard since her upB is invincible most of the time. Some rules to follow.
If she is far enough away from the ledge that the explosion hitbox WILL NOT HIT YOU and there is a possibility that she is going for the ledge, do not give it up! Hang on to the ledge until you're sure that she will not fall helplessly to her death. If she lands right next to you, perfect. Ledgehop knee, run to the other side of the stage, run cancel shield>roll forward so your back is against the ledge, grab it and repeat.
If the explosion WILL hit you, Sheik will usually either upB to the ledge or directly above it. If you're under 100%, what I like to do is a normal getup immediately before the explosion, followed by an ftilt behind you if necessary.
If she went for the sweetspot, normal getup has enough ledge frames that she will die from an edgehog. If she went up, your invincibility should leave you unharmed, and you have enough time to ftilt her. She will have no jump and if you repeat this process you can generally gimp her at very low percents.
If she's nowhere near the ledge then there's really nothing you can do but try to predict where she's going and knee the crap out of her once she gets there.
If she is far enough away from the ledge that the explosion hitbox WILL NOT HIT YOU and there is a possibility that she is going for the ledge, do not give it up! Hang on to the ledge until you're sure that she will not fall helplessly to her death. If she lands right next to you, perfect. Ledgehop knee, run to the other side of the stage, run cancel shield>roll forward so your back is against the ledge, grab it and repeat.
If the explosion WILL hit you, Sheik will usually either upB to the ledge or directly above it. If you're under 100%, what I like to do is a normal getup immediately before the explosion, followed by an ftilt behind you if necessary.
If she went for the sweetspot, normal getup has enough ledge frames that she will die from an edgehog. If she went up, your invincibility should leave you unharmed, and you have enough time to ftilt her. She will have no jump and if you repeat this process you can generally gimp her at very low percents.
If she's nowhere near the ledge then there's really nothing you can do but try to predict where she's going and knee the crap out of her once she gets there.
this has to have been asked but im too lazy to find it
how do YOU scar jump? ican do it sometimes but fail most of the times so i just want to knwo if i have to get faster at what i m doing or if u do it some secret way that pwns.
how do YOU scar jump? ican do it sometimes but fail most of the times so i just want to knwo if i have to get faster at what i m doing or if u do it some secret way that pwns.
Scar
#HarveyDent
Q: What IS Scarjumping?
A: It is NOT the repeated walljumping on YS that I am oh, so fond of. It is the very first walljump that I do, which allows me, from the ledge, to walljump slightly below the ledge on the side of the stage WITHOUT using my double jump, that lets me do awesome and relatively easy and effective things such as drop down and scarjump uair > dj uair low recovering Marths.
Q: How do you do it?
A: I let go of the ledge with c-stick backwards, which lets me let go of the ledge with no fastfall or backwards DI, then immediately smash towards the stage on the directional stick. I wait for a very short amount of time, until CF is hugging YS, then smash away from the stage and walljump, never using my DJ.
After that I either aerial after the walljump so that I can control my DI better, or I will immediately DJ back (like I did in IKM), or I will wait a bit and DJ pretty far out, which hopefully unexpectedly lets me reach and kill people who are recovering high.
A: It is NOT the repeated walljumping on YS that I am oh, so fond of. It is the very first walljump that I do, which allows me, from the ledge, to walljump slightly below the ledge on the side of the stage WITHOUT using my double jump, that lets me do awesome and relatively easy and effective things such as drop down and scarjump uair > dj uair low recovering Marths.
Q: How do you do it?
A: I let go of the ledge with c-stick backwards, which lets me let go of the ledge with no fastfall or backwards DI, then immediately smash towards the stage on the directional stick. I wait for a very short amount of time, until CF is hugging YS, then smash away from the stage and walljump, never using my DJ.
After that I either aerial after the walljump so that I can control my DI better, or I will immediately DJ back (like I did in IKM), or I will wait a bit and DJ pretty far out, which hopefully unexpectedly lets me reach and kill people who are recovering high.
awesome thanks scar. also i'm a falcon nub so i have some more questions
1. what are the most basic an dmost effective ways to approach? (lets say shiek, fox, falco, marth)
2. what are some basic uses for scar jumping
3. and basic uses for moonwalking
thanks my dude
1. what are the most basic an dmost effective ways to approach? (lets say shiek, fox, falco, marth)
2. what are some basic uses for scar jumping
3. and basic uses for moonwalking
thanks my dude
Scar
#HarveyDent
Spaced nairs, always. Sheik can actually cc grab for a very long time, and so can Marth, and they both punish very well from grab. Marth also can fsmash **** you, so it's best to try to wait for him to jump and then punish him with nair > combo, same with Sheik.
Fox and Falco's best approaches are nair and laser>nair respectively, and your nair jumps over lasers and outprioritizes both of their nairs. Nair > grab > ****.
Literally no one does it besides me, but I do it primarily so that the walljump is much safer if I get hit since I still have my jump, for increased maneuverability, and definitely so that i can go very low on YS and still recover after walljump uairing.
It's very situational and prob. should be understood before implemented, since I used it a lot and it was ******** for a long time. It's just now become useful to me.
Not much, primarily to be flashy. You can moonwalk and then jump offstage so that your back is facing your opponent, since bair is probably one of CF's best edgeguard moves. Also you can really jump offstage VERY far with moonwalk dj bair and still recover from it.
awesome man...can you explain what you mean by understanding the scar jump? and last question then ill stop bothering you haha...can you theoreticaly scar jump on all the neutrals? i've only see you do it on YS
Scar
#HarveyDent
Understanding Melee comes down to playing Melee a lot. The more you play it and spam stuff the more you'll see when it works and when it doesn't, and more importantly WHY it works and why it doesn't, which is understanding the move.
The more you use a move, you'll know for yourself when is a good time and when isn't and why, and only then will you actually be able to do things effectively.
And no, Scarjumping on FD, Stadium and Battlefield is impossible, you can't get enough inward DI. Fountain and DL64 MIGHT be possible but I've never done it, not even once. AR would be the only way to find out.
As for CP stages, you can generally just walljump without using your DJ by simply pressing away when hanging onto a ledge. Yoshi's is the only one that doesn't let you do that, but for which it's still possible, as far as I know.
lol you just pointed out the weakest part of my game in general. i have decent tech skill but no brains
anyway thanks for all the help this morning Scar. cant wait for IKM2
NES n00b
Smash Master
How come I don't have a "Ask NES n00b thread" Scar?
Scar
#HarveyDent
lol I would prob ask you stuff if you did.
NES n00b
Smash Master
bump question. What was it like playing MidWest Falcons? Cause I didn't get to go.
Scar
#HarveyDent
They play WAY differently than I do, and all of the other EC non-Falcon mains that I play in dittos. MW Falcons all focus on the grab. I have a lot of Cactuar practice and when I was bad he would literally tech chase me from 0-90 each and every stock with Marth's fthrow lol, and I play M2K a lot who is the gayest of grabbers, so it wasn't impossible to deal with, but my grab game sucks compared to theirs and I stole a lot of stuff.
They really don't combo that much though besides Darkrain. My set vs Jiano is up and it was really interesting for me to watch, it seems like we're playing 2 different characters. He literally grabs me once and gives me like 90% or so, and I run around like a moron until I hit him, then I death combo him.
Also, Darkrain is faster and smarter than any other CF by far and away. I got so much better from just watching him play for 5 minutes, and in person apparently is the only way.
They really don't combo that much though besides Darkrain. My set vs Jiano is up and it was really interesting for me to watch, it seems like we're playing 2 different characters. He literally grabs me once and gives me like 90% or so, and I run around like a moron until I hit him, then I death combo him.
Also, Darkrain is faster and smarter than any other CF by far and away. I got so much better from just watching him play for 5 minutes, and in person apparently is the only way.
i think the thing about witnessing someone who's extremely good at some aspect needs to be seen in person to witness the beauty of what they are good at.
NES n00b
Smash Master
That is cool. This might sound arrogant coming from me (wince who am I anyway, MS please), but you need to dash dance grab more. Like, you must be the only Falcon who seems to not do that about half the time. Your post about MW Falcon's reminded me of how little you try to grab to approach/counter.
Man, I did wish I could go to Event 52 though for Falcon heaven, but I guess I can wait.
Man, I did wish I could go to Event 52 though for Falcon heaven, but I guess I can wait.
Scar
#HarveyDent
Nah dude no arrogance at all, this is plain fact and it's a part of my game that has been SEVERELY lacking.
My johns are that my regular training partners have been Cactuar and Pakman, two players who absolutely **** missed grabs. I missed a lot of grabs and learned how to beat them without doing it, so then when I played people who actually COULD get dd>grabbed, I passed up on the grab opportunity and naired their sheild. lol.
Expect a lot more grabs in the future.
Don't make a mistake.